Your car parks

Response to this request is long overdue. By law, under all circumstances, Torbay Borough Council should have responded by now (details). You can complain by requesting an internal review.

Dear Torbay Borough Council,

Do you own all of the car parks in your area?

Do you have a traffic regulation order for the car parks you own?

How are your car parks enforced?

If they are enforced by a third party, can you name that third party?

Is there ANPR cameras installed in any of the car parks that you own?

Do you know what relevant land is?

Are any of your car parks operated under contract law?

Yours faithfully,

Peter Harry

Freedom of Information, Torbay Borough Council

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Harry

 

Thank you for your request for information, which was received on 15 July
2017. We are currently processing your request and will contact you within
20 working days.

 

If you have any queries regarding your request, please do not hesitate to
contact us, quoting the reference number above in all communications.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Bee Laithwaite

Information Compliance Support Officer

Torbay Council

Torquay Town Hall

Castle Circus

Torquay

TQ1 3DR

01803 207177

*: [1][email address]

[2]cid:image001.png@01CF5A20.BA7692A0

 

The Information Compliance Team will aim to acknowledge correspondence
within 3 working days unless a restriction is in place.

show quoted sections

Freedom of Information, Torbay Borough Council

2 Attachments

Dear Mr Harry

 

Further to your request received on 15 July 2017 I confirm that Torbay
Council has now considered your request under the Freedom of Information
Act 2000.

 

Our response is attached.

 

The information supplied to you continues to be protected by the
Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. You are free to use it for your
own purposes, including any non-commercial research you are doing and for
the purpose of news reporting. Any other re-use, for example commercial
publication, would require the permission of the copyright holder.

 

Torbay Council publishes Access to Information requests and responses on
its online Disclosure Log. Only requests deemed to be in the public
interest will be included and any request included within this log will be
de-personalised accordingly.

 

To view the Council’s Disclosure Log, please visit
[1]www.torbay.gov.uk/disclosurelog

 

If you have any queries about this email please do not hesitate to contact
me directly, quoting the reference number listed at the top of this letter
in all communications.

 

If you are unhappy with the Council’s response to your request and wish to
make a complaint please write to Information Compliance, Town Hall, Castle
Circus, Torquay, TQ1 3DR or complete the on-line complaint form that can
be found at [2]www.torbay.gov.uk.

 

If after going through the Council’s complaints process you are still not
satisfied, you can contact the Information Commissioner direct.

 

Information Helpline: 0303 123 1113
Commissioner 01625 545 745
 
Wycliffe [3][email address]
House Email:
[4]www.ico.org.uk
Water Lane Website:

Wilmslow

Cheshire SK9
5AF

 

Yours sincerely

 

Bee Laithwaite

Information Compliance Support Officer

Torbay Council

Torquay Town Hall

Castle Circus

Torquay

TQ1 3DR

01803 207177

*: [5][email address]

[6]cid:image001.png@01CF5A20.BA7692A0

 

The Information Compliance Team will aim to acknowledge correspondence
within 3 working days unless a restriction is in place.

 

 

Please note...
Communications with Torbay Council may be monitored and/or recorded for
lawful purposes. This email is confidential and may also be privileged. If
you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender and delete the
message from your system immediately. The views in this message are
personal; they are not necessarily those of Torbay Council.

References

Visible links
1. http://www.torbay.gov.uk/disclosurelog
2. http://www.torbay.gov.uk/
3. mailto:[email address]
4. http://www.ico.org.uk/
5. mailto:[email address]

Dear Freedom of Information,
Further to the request I made to you on the 15th July 2017, I make an add on request due to the response I have received 11th August 2017.
It is my understanding that you own land that you have leased out or rented out to other organisations.
Can you please provide me with a list of all plots of land that you own?.
Berry Head Nature Reserve being one such plot of land in question.
This is in relation to the question 5 of my original request, where other authorities have answered, but you have choosen not too.

Yours sincerely,

Peter Harry

Freedom of Information, Torbay Borough Council

Dear Mr Harry

 

Thank you for your email received on 11 August 2017 requesting the
following information:

 

Provide a list of all plots of land that the council own.

 

Under Section 21 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 Torbay Council is
not required to respond to a request where the information is already
reasonably accessible to an applicant.

 

The information you have requested is available via the Torbay Council
website at
[1]http://www.torbay.gov.uk/council/informa...
 under the heading Local Authority Land and Building Assets.

 

If you have any queries about this email please do not hesitate to contact
us directly, quoting the reference number listed at the top of this email
in all communications.

 

Torbay Council publishes Access to Information requests and responses on
its online Disclosure Log. Only requests deemed to be in the public
interest will be included and any request included within this log will be
de-personalised accordingly.

 

To view the Council’s Disclosure Log, please visit
[2]www.torbay.gov.uk/disclosurelog

 

If you are unhappy with the Council’s response to your request and wish to
make a complaint please write to Information Compliance, Town Hall, Castle
Circus, Torquay, TQ1 3DR or complete the on-line complaint form that can
be found at [3]www.torbay.gov.uk.

 

If your complaint is not resolved to your complete satisfaction, you may
apply directly to the Information Commissioner for a decision.

 

Information Helpline: 0303 123 1113
Commissioner 01625 545 745
 
Wycliffe [4][email address]
House Email: 
[5]www.ico.org.uk
Water Lane Website:

Wilmslow

Cheshire   
SK9 5AF

 

Yours sincerely

 

Jo Beer

Policy, Performance and Review Manager &

Information Governance Lead

Corporate Support

Town Hall

Castle Circus

Torquay

TQ1 3DR

 

Email: [6][Torbay Borough Council request email]

 

Please note...
Communications with Torbay Council may be monitored and/or recorded for
lawful purposes. This email is confidential and may also be privileged. If
you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender and delete the
message from your system immediately. The views in this message are
personal; they are not necessarily those of Torbay Council.

References

Visible links
1. http://www.torbay.gov.uk/council/informa...
2. http://www.torbay.gov.uk/disclosurelog
3. http://www.torbay.gov.uk/
4. mailto:[email address]
5. http://www.ico.org.uk/
6. mailto:[Torbay Borough Council request email]

Dear Freedom of Information,
Thank you for sending me a link which shows what land you own.
Unless I have missed something, it shows that you own all of the land known as Berry Head, Is that correct?
Some of it is leased out to others.
Can you give me a list of those that you have leased out parts/all of that land and are there any restrictions to what can be done by a lease holder to any part of the leased land?

Yours sincerely,

Peter Harry

Dear Freedom of Information,
You keep on referring too section 21 FOI Act 2000, that is your right, but without a map, I have know idea where those plots of land are situated, a little more transparency would have helped. However, I must assume that you own all of the land known as Berry Head.
There is a car park on that land, can you please provide details of who enforces that car park and who they enforce on behalf of?

Yours sincerely,

Peter Harry

Freedom of Information, Torbay Borough Council

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Harry

 

Thank you for your request for information, which was received on 17
August 2017. We are currently processing your request and will contact you
within 20 working days.

 

If you have any queries regarding your request, please do not hesitate to
contact us, quoting the reference number above in all communications.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Bee Laithwaite

Information Compliance Support Officer

Torbay Council

Torquay Town Hall

Castle Circus

Torquay

TQ1 3DR

01803 207177

*: [1][email address]

[2]cid:image001.png@01CF5A20.BA7692A0

 

The Information Compliance Team will aim to acknowledge correspondence
within 3 working days unless a restriction is in place.

 

Freedom of Information, Torbay Borough Council

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Harry

 

Thank you for your email received on 19 August 2017, Torbay Coast and
Countryside Trust manage the land, the car park is managed by Premier
Parking.

 

I have looked up contact details for both, see below:

 

Torbay Coast and Countryside Trust

Web: [1]https://www.countryside-trust.org.uk/abo...

 

Tel: 01803 520 022

 

Premier Parking

Post: Premier Parking Solutions Ltd.
PO Box 471
Newton Abbot
TQ12 9FX

Tel: 0845 862 1034

Email: [2][email address]

 

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further queries.

 

Regards

 

Bee

 

Bee Laithwaite

Information Compliance Support Officer

Torbay Council

Torquay Town Hall

Castle Circus

Torquay

TQ1 3DR

01803 207177

*: [3][email address]

[4]cid:image001.png@01CF5A20.BA7692A0

 

The Information Compliance Team will aim to acknowledge correspondence
within 3 working days unless a restriction is in place.

Dear Freedom of Information,
I now have the full picture. And whilst this is not a request as such, it demonstrates where you have gone wrong.
You own the land but have leased it out to another. Leasing out the land does not change the status of who owns the land, the local authority still has full control over it as you are the freeholder, it is not relevant land.
Therefore, as you are the land owner, that means you also own the car park that you have leased out.
Whether or not you are in control of that car park, ANPR cameras are not an approved device to be used on local authority owned land for enforcement purposes. Therefore, you as the land owner are in breach of legislation, the will of Parliament, Government policy and the expectations of the local electorate.
Can you please inform the lease holder that no enforcement can take place under contract law as it is not private land. (I did ask you earlier on if you knew what relevant land was) Premier Parking Solutions should also be warned that they can no longer enforce the said car park using contract law. I have been in touch with the BPA and they are fully aware of the law and their CEO Patrick Troy has at times been pleading with the DofT to change the law on enforcement by ANPR cameras in local authority off street owned car parks. It hasn't worked.
Below is a letter I have obtained from the Department of Transport.
I have been in touch with the The Department for Communities and Local Government's and the letter from Robert Goodwill MP is still valid and through questions I have asked the lead player from that department, he has replied as follows:-
In the interests of clarity ANPR devices are not certified under the Traffic Management Act 2004 for enforcement purposes, and consequently cannot be use to enforce local authority off-street car parks. This means that any Penalty Charges Notices issued via an ANPR device would be invalid. On the other hand local authorities can use ANPR in the management of a car park, for instance if it was used in conjunction with a barrier or for managing space availability this would be permissible.

DEPARTMENT FOR TRANSPORT

From the Parliamentary Under Secretary Of State Robert Goodwill MP

Great Minster House
33 Horseferry Road
London
SWl P 4DR
Tel: 020 7944 25SG
Fax: 020 7944 4309
E-Mail: [email address]

16 September 2014

All Parking Managers in England with Civil Parking Enforcement powers

I understand that some of you are intending to withdraw your off-street parking operations from the parking enforcement framework in the Traffic Management Act 2004 (TMA) so that enforcement is carried out through
contractual terms and conditions as if the car parks are privately owned. lt is also my understanding that a couple of you may already be operating your car parking operations through contract law - I would hope this is not the case.

Let me assert, that although you may think the land is "unregulated" by virtue of revoking the parking orders made under the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (RTRA), I am of the view that the land remains regulated because under Section 32(1)(a) of the RTRA, a Council retains the status of a Local Authority providing off-street parking places.

Part 6 to the TMA was enacted in 2008 with the aim of improving local authority on-street and off-street parking enforcement arrangements by enabling local authorities to take effective enforcement action, but to protect the motorists when a mistake has been made by a local authority. Any intention to operate outside this statutory regime would clearly go against the will of Parliament, Government policy and the expectations of local electorates.

I should warn you that should you have any plans to submit an application to the DVLA for access to keeper data on the basis of recovering unpaid charges for enforcement through contract law, this will more than likely not be approved because the Council will not be operating as an enforcement authority under the TMA

The Department made a conscious decision to exempt local authorities from the provisions in Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedom Act which provides for an enforcement regime and appeals system for privately owned car parks. This clearly demonstrates the will of Government to separate local authority off-street parking enforcement arrangements from the parking operations on private land.

As you know, local authorities are expected to comply with the relevant legislation and guidance, and are accountable to their/ electorates. I would hope that you would reconsider any plans to enforce your off-streets outside the parking framework in the TMA.

Yours sincerely

Robert Goodwill MP

I do hope that this has clarified the difference between Relevant Land and Local authority owned land and that you will inform me as soon as is possible what your intentions are going to be. Maybe it would be a good idea to pass this on to your legal department.

Yours sincerely,

Peter Harry

Freedom of Information, Torbay Borough Council

Dear Mr Harry

This is no longer a Freedom of Information matter and therefore has been passed to our Legal department for comment.

Yours sincerely

Vicky Wills
Information Compliance Advisor
Torbay Council

Phone: 01803 207467

The Information Compliance Team will aim to acknowledge correspondence within 3 working days unless a restriction is in place.

Dear Freedom of Information,
Thank you, I wait with anticipation.
I cannot give you my address for someone to send me a reply. Can you give me details of your legal department so that I may directly be in touch with them.

Yours sincerely,

Peter Harry

Freedom of Information, Torbay Borough Council

2 Attachments

Dear Mr Harry

 

Further to your request received on 17 August 2017 I confirm that Torbay
Council has now considered your request under the Freedom of Information
Act 2000.

 

Our response is attached.

 

The information supplied to you continues to be protected by the
Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. You are free to use it for your
own purposes, including any non-commercial research you are doing and for
the purpose of news reporting. Any other re-use, for example commercial
publication, would require the permission of the copyright holder.

 

Torbay Council publishes Access to Information requests and responses on
its online Disclosure Log. Only requests deemed to be in the public
interest will be included and any request included within this log will be
de-personalised accordingly.

 

To view the Council’s Disclosure Log, please visit
[1]www.torbay.gov.uk/disclosurelog

 

If you have any queries about this email please do not hesitate to contact
me directly, quoting the reference number listed at the top of this letter
in all communications.

 

If you are unhappy with the Council’s response to your request and wish to
make a complaint please write to Information Compliance, Town Hall, Castle
Circus, Torquay, TQ1 3DR or complete the on-line complaint form that can
be found at [2]www.torbay.gov.uk.

 

If after going through the Council’s complaints process you are still not
satisfied, you can contact the Information Commissioner direct.

 

Information Helpline: 0303 123 1113
Commissioner 01625 545 745
 
Wycliffe [3][email address]
House Email:
[4]www.ico.org.uk
Water Lane Website:

Wilmslow

Cheshire SK9
5AF

 

Yours sincerely

 

Bee Laithwaite

Information Compliance Support Officer

Torbay Council

Torquay Town Hall

Castle Circus

Torquay

TQ1 3DR

01803 207177

*: [5][email address]

[6]cid:image001.png@01CF5A20.BA7692A0

 

The Information Compliance Team will aim to acknowledge correspondence
within 3 working days unless a restriction is in place.

 

 

Please note...
Communications with Torbay Council may be monitored and/or recorded for
lawful purposes. This email is confidential and may also be privileged. If
you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender and delete the
message from your system immediately. The views in this message are
personal; they are not necessarily those of Torbay Council.

References

Visible links
1. http://www.torbay.gov.uk/disclosurelog
2. http://www.torbay.gov.uk/
3. mailto:[email address]
4. http://www.ico.org.uk/
5. mailto:[email address]

Freedom of Information, Torbay Borough Council

Dear Mr Harry

They will respond to your what do they know email address.

Yours sincerely

Vicky Wills
Information Compliance Advisor
Torbay Council

Phone: 01803 207467

The Information Compliance Team will aim to acknowledge correspondence within 3 working days unless a restriction is in place.

Dear Freedom of Information,
On 25th August 2017, I received a notification from you, saying that a reply would be sent to my WDTK email address. As at the 23rd September 2017, I have received no reply. Is there a problem?

Yours sincerely,

Peter Harry

infocompliance, Torbay Borough Council

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Harry

 

Thank you for your email received on 23 September 2017, I am sorry you
have not received a response to your enquiry, I have today sent a reminder
to the relevant officer.

 

Regards

 

Bee

 

 

Bee Laithwaite

Information Compliance Support Officer

Torbay Council

Torquay Town Hall

Castle Circus

Torquay

TQ1 3DR

*: [1][email address]

[2]cid:image001.png@01CF5A20.BA7692A0

 

The Information Compliance Team will aim to acknowledge correspondence
within 3 working days unless a restriction is in place.

Taylor, Philip, Torbay Borough Council

Dear Mr Harry

 

I write further to your e-mail of the 23^rd. August 2017 which has been
passed to Legal Services for comment.

 

May I apologise for the delay in replying to you.

 

As you are aware Premier Parking manage the operation of Berry Head Car
Park.  This management is on behalf of Torbay Coast and Countryside

Trust (TCCT), as has already been confirmed.

 

We note what you say in relation to the Traffic Management Act and the
copy of the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State Robert Goodwill MP’s
letter of 16^th. September 2014 that you copied into your e-mail.   Torbay
Council was already aware of this letter and the contents in relation to
parking enforcement and acts within the remit of this.   The underlying
rationale for this letter are different to the situation at Berry Head Car
Park.

 

Importantly, Torbay Council did not engage Premier Parking for this
management and have no relationship with them at present at this
location.  TCCT engaged and contracted with Premier Park, not the local
authority.    This authority is not acting as an enforcement authority
either directly or indirectly for this land.

 

I trust this clarifies the situation.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

Philip Taylor

Office Manager

Legal Section

Commercial Services

 

E-Mail:  [1][email address]

Tel: 01803 207142  Fax:  01803 207492

 

Torbay Council,  Town Hall,  Castle Circus,

TORQUAY, Devon.  TQ1 3DR

DX59006  TORQUAY 1

 

 

Please note...
Communications with Torbay Council may be monitored and/or recorded for
lawful purposes. This email is confidential and may also be privileged. If
you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender and delete the
message from your system immediately. The views in this message are
personal; they are not necessarily those of Torbay Council.

References

Visible links
1. mailto:[email address]

Dear Taylor, Philip,
I thank you for your reply and all comments have been noted.

However, I think it is about time that someone in the legal department got themselves up to date with this issue. The FOI department seemed to be out of their depth and that is why I asked for it to be passed over to the legal department. I now find that this department is also struggling.
So please read the lease and any other documents associated with my request and reply based on what you have read.

Premier Park does not operate Berry Head car park. That arrangement ended and another PPC took over. It is now operated by Parkwithease Ltd, who took over 1st June 2017. But I must remind you that neither should have been given the opportunity to control this car park, it is a local authority owned car park and not a private car park.

The lease (which I have an official copy) tells me that the car park at Berry Head, is not part of the leasing arrangements between Torbay Borough Council and TCCT, or that is what the map attached to the lease tells me. S.2-3.2 of the lease, tells me that the car park is the landlords property (Torbay Borough Council) and reserves the right to use the overflow car park shown hatched, and does not and never can be classed as private land. In fact none of the land leased to TCCT is private land, it is leased land, the landlord still retains ownership of it.

Further, if you read s.1.30.1 of the lease in conjunction with the map which is attached to the lease, you will see for yourself that the car park is not included in the area marked in red and coloured green on the plan. Look at the map. The car park is still definitely in the ownership of Torbay Borough Council and remains a local authority car park.
And to rub salt into your wounds, you will see that s.2-3.2 of the lease, mentions pay and display, it is not. Under the present arrangements however they may have come about, are pay on exit and not P&D.

If you now read the letter from Robert Goodwill MP, you will see that the second paragraph of his letter explains why a local authority owned car parks cannot be enforced under contract law. It is not relevant land (I did ask FOI and they would not answer), it is local authority owned land, and local authority owned land that is used for car parking, cannot use ANPR cameras to enforce parking.

Question time.
(1) Who owns the car park at Berry Head? Please provide documents for proof of ownership?

(2) As the lease was drawn up in 1999. Who operated the car park at Berry Head until 25th February 2013and when if there was a TRO, it was revoked?

(3) Was there a traffic regulation order made prior, to the signing of the lease agreement dated 1999?

(4) What date was the TRO at (2) revoked? Please provide copies of documents associated with the revocation.

(5) If there was a TRO prior to the signing of the lease, can you please provide a copy?

(6) Who drew up the lease and who approved it?

(7) There is no indication whatsoever that the lease has changed from the time it was signed in 1999. If there was a change can you provide me with the date and on whose authority the lease was altered?

Yours sincerely,

Peter Harry

Dear Taylor, Philip,
Can you please update this request ASAP?

Yours sincerely,

Peter Harry

Dear Taylor, Philip,
As I understand the FOI Act, you are required to respond within 20 working days, no if's no but's.
If you struggle to understand this act, then I can understand why you are struggling with my request, but that is no excuse.
When do I expect to receive a reply?
Yours sincerely,

Peter Harry

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