Why does the GRO deposit register on approval of the Treasury

chris made this Freedom of Information request to General Register Office

This request has been closed to new correspondence. Contact us if you think it should be reopened.

The request was refused by General Register Office.

Dear General Register Office,

The GRO is not a civil servant of the Crown. Who is the GRO a servant of?

Why does the GRO have to get the approval from the Lord High Treasurer and Commissioners of HM Treasury to deposit registers?

HM Treasury defines registers as; Record of ownership of securities. For all gilts except those that are bearer bonds, entry in an official register confers title.

Does the GRO also use this definition seeing as the registers are deposited on the approval of HM Treasury ?

When a birth is registered is the event also recorded for the purposes of perpetual trusts under English Law?

Is a registrar of births also a registrar for ecclesiastical purposes and/or probate purposes?

Kind Regards

Mr Christopher Holdham

FOI, General Register Office

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GRO First Point of Contact,

Dear Mr Christopher Holdham,
 
Thank you for your enquiry. We have handled your request as official
correspondence rather than under the provisions of the Freedom of
Information Act, but this has made no difference to the content of our
response.
 
In your enquiry you ask whether or not the General Register Office is a
civil servant of the Crown. The Registrar General acts on behalf of the
Crown, and GRO is staffed with civil servants.
 
You also ask a number of questions about the Lord High Treasurer and
Commissioners of HM Treasury regarding the deposit of registers and how it
defines them.
 
The processes for registration of births is set out in the Births and
Deaths Registration Act 1953.
The Treasury is not involved in the completion of the birth registers.
Registration is following the provisions of the above Act of Parliament.
The original birth registers must remain in the local register office,
although a copy of each entry is deposited with the GRO.
 
With regards to the purposes of perpetual trusts under English Law in
relation to birth registration, the birth registration is just a record of
the event. Registration law does not make any reference to “perpetual
trusts”
 
Finally regarding the birth registrar’s role, a registrar of births can
register marriages, but has no role in the process of probate other than
issuing a death certificate as necessary.
 
 
 
Kind Regards
 
Alex
 
Alex Gaskill
CCU Email Team Manager
 
Her Majesty's Passport Office, General Register Office
I Smedley Hydro I Trafalgar Road I Southport I PR8 2HH
 
T:+44(0)300 123 1837 | Text Relay Prefix 18001
E: [1][email address]
[2]www.gov.uk
 
 
 

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References

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Dear GRO

Thank you for your response.

Unfortunately your response has left some unanswered questions and also raised a few more.

Thank you for citing the '53 births and deaths registration Act, however, here are at least 4 other Acts in force legislating birth, death and marriage registration services. Registration does not just follow the births and deaths registration Act 1953.

Up until 1836 civil registration was conducted by ecclesiastical bodies, in 1836 the GRO was formed and has been responsible for civil birth registration since. Is the GRO still performing a discharge of functions for ecclesiastical bodies?

Who is the GRO responsible to? Who is the GRO a servant of? and who and/or what body are children registered to?

Why does the GRO and/or local registry office inform the Royal Courts of Justice of a record of birth?

Why does the GRO have to get the approval from the Lord High Treasurer and Commissioners of HM Treasury to deposit registers?

Kind Regards

Chris Holdham

GRO First Point of Contact,

Dear Mr Christopher Holdham,

Thank you for your email.

As our previous response includes the information requested we are unable to provide any additional information to assist you further on this occasion.

Kind regards

Alex

Alex Gaskill
CCU Email Team Manager

Her Majesty's Passport Office, General Register Office
I Smedley Hydro I Trafalgar Road I Southport I PR8 2HH

T:+44(0)300 123 1837 | Text Relay Prefix 18001
E: [email address]
www.gov.uk

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Dear Alex Gaskill

Thank you for your response. In my view your previous response does not provide the information requested. Is this request limited by the fact that the GRO is a civil servant for the purposes of the official secrets act?

Regards

Mr Christopher Holdham

Childnot left an annotation ()

Very well done Chris,

As we expected the response has been an attempt to whitewash the question by responding with answers that pair with questions not asked - this seems to be a regular Modus Operandii with these requests.

I would suggest the subject matter is probably far too occult for the agents at "what do they know", because I doubt they do know what is going on and are being given a scripted response to hand out.

The response was given that the Treasury do not complete the registers, No that was not you asked was it, you asked why the Treasury directs the GR to make and keep registers. The Directors of the trust sure are not going to tell us the answer to that are they.

I mean what does the registration of a birth have to do with HMRC ? The key is knowing what is meant by Birth and what is Birthed ..be careful what you ask for.

The fact that section 68 (5) declares the following is ignored:- "Service as Registrar General is not service in the civil service of the Crown; but the Registrar General is a Crown servant for the purposes of the Official Secrets Act 1989.”

Basic and logical deduction tells us this request has not been responded to truthfully - why ?