When a vulnerable 7 year old a child finds their mother dead .....

Greater Manchester Police did not have the information requested.

Dear Greater Manchester Police,

Due to my inability to access healthcare based on factually correct data, as a "public servant" I ask that you fully comply with the Nolan Principles and cooperate with my FOI on here.

Please do not refer me to links in your answers; this will not be acceptable.

When I refer to the "Child"; I am referring to a child who has found their mother dead under tragic circumstances.

Questions;

a) In 2004, what Child Welfare protocols were in place in order to ensure that a vulnerable Child who finds their Mother dead had immediate access to the best support, protection and care following the tragedy?

b) Did this police force have staff in key roles for assisting families and children traumatised by the unexpected death of a mother?

c) What sort of circumstances would warrant the employment of a Family Liaison Officer to be assigned to the family rehoming the Child in (i) 2004 (ii) 2005 (iii) 2006 (iv) 2007

d) Are there for procedures for the police to contact Social Services or put the Child in touch with any Child Welfare organisations that provided bereavement support to children in South Manchester?

e) In order to ensure that the Child does not fall off the radar of those who had a Duty of Care; what protocols were in place in 2004 for best protecting any data shared between the police and the other Council Tax Services?

f) If a member of the public report to a policeman that they are concerned for a Child's welfare due to the conduct of their father; what protocols were in place in (i) 2005 (ii) 2009 (iii) 2011 (iv) 2012 (v) 2015

Yours faithfully,

Fiona Watts

  #lawcomMIPO

Greater Manchester Police

1 Attachment

Good afternoon Ms Watts,

Please find attached GMP's response to your recent FOI request.

Regards
David

David Kynaston
Information Compliance & Records Management Unit
Greater Manchester Police
   

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Dear Greater Manchester Police,

Thank you for your reply but with respect to UK data laws; you need to bring clarity to your response.

I asked
a) In 2004, what Child Welfare protocols were in place in order to ensure that a vulnerable child who finds their Mother dead had immediate access to the best support, protection and care following a tragedy?

Mr Kynasten replied
"The working together protocol would have been in place".

My questions seeking clarity; a principle of The Data Protection Act'

1) What do you mean when you write "the working together protocol"?
2) What is the "working together protocol"?

For example, "working together" with which agencies?
(i) Which agencies were your referring to?
(ii) Do you mean the Council Tax agencies?
(iii) Do you mean the Government ones?
(iv) Maybe you are referring to ones within the NHS or the Greater Manchester Police?

Yours faithfully,

Fiona Watts
@magnacarta300

Fiona Watts left an annotation ()

Dear Great Manchester Police,

please don't bother sending me another Complaints form in anticipation of your lack of cooperation on here.

Anyone who has made a futile attempt to resolve sloppy data management by the police will know from experience that any route of enquiry or complaint just makes the person a target of Police Hate Crime and malfeasance ........ I should know.

Yours concerned,

Fiona Watts
 #lawcomMIPO

Dear Greater Manchester Police,

At 11.39 hrs today, I left a verbal complaint on your answerphone.

Your answer message is garbled. It is challenging to listen to or best understand. I can see that clarity as not a priority in your department!

Yours faithfully,

Fiona Watts

Greater Manchester Police

Good morning Ms Watts,

Thank you very much for your email.

I would be happy to seek further clarification from the data owner within GMP who provided me with the answers for your FOI request. As I understand it you require clarification of the current answer to question a) in for the form of:

"1) What do you mean when you write "the working together protocol"?
2) What is the "working together protocol"?

For example, "working together" with which agencies?
(i) Which agencies were your referring to?
(ii) Do you mean the Council Tax agencies?
(iii) Do you mean the Government ones?
(iv) Maybe you are referring to ones within the NHS or the Greater Manchester Police?"

I will endeavour to obtain a response to those questions as soon as possible.

However, I also note you sent a further email to our mailbox on Good Friday where you state you called our office to raise a compliant. Please note the office was empty on that Bank Holiday so I'm sorry no one was available to take your call. Can I ask what your compliant was in relation to? Is it in relation to the above request for clarification or was it to do with another aspect of my response?

I will be in touch as soon as I have clarification of the above questions but please be aware the person I need to speak to is currently away from the office until 05/05/17.

Kindest regards
David Kynaston

David Kynaston
Information Compliance & Records Management Unit
Greater Manchester Police

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Greater Manchester Police

Good afternoon Ms Watts,

Further to our email exchange below, I am now in a position to answer the supplementary questions you asked following GMP's response to your FOI request.

1) What do you mean when you write "the working together protocol"?
Answer: A protocol which was developed to aide working together between partner agencies, Police, Children’s services, health and Education et al

2) What is the "working together protocol"?
Answer: The protocol is updated every couple of years, and is publicly available on the Home Office website. The link is:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio...

For example, "working together" with which agencies?
(i) Which agencies were your referring to?
(ii) Do you mean the Council Tax agencies?
(iii) Do you mean the Government ones?
(iv) Maybe you are referring to ones within the NHS or the Greater Manchester Police?

Answer: Please refer to the protocol published on the above link.

I trust this answers your additional questions.

Kind regards
David

David Kynaston
Information Compliance & Records Management Unit
Information Services Branch
Greater Manchester Police

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Dear Greater Manchester Police,

1. On 16th March 2017, I wrote a Freedom of Information Request. At the start of the request, I wrote the following;

2. "Please do not refer me to links in your answers; this will not be acceptable."

3. On the 12 May 2017, what do you do?

4. After failing to adhere to bring CLARITY to your response (in compliance with UK data laws and The Nolan Principles) you then refer me to a link on 12 May 2017.

5. This is the issue with the staff at Manchester Police maladministration and errors; if a best effort was made to get things right the first time round - then less public money and resourced would be wasted.

6. Your response on 12 May 2017 demonstrates that staff at Manchester seem unable to read the most basic Freedom of Information request, let alone protect a vulnerable child who found their mother dead.

7. "Public Servants"? Where's the most basic service?

8. Please fully comply with my FOI query in compliance with my request made under UK data laws. It is clear from my communications since 2004, that the victims behind this FOI will never have any resolution.

Yours faithfully,

Fiona Watts

Greater Manchester Police

2 Attachments

Dear Ms Watts,

You made a request for information under the provisions granted via the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA) which provides the public with a general right of access to recorded information held by public authorities.

Within the FOIA, Section 21 clearly states that information is exempt from disclosure if it is already accessible to the applicant by other means. The protocol you enquired about is such a document, as it is accessible to the public via the gov.uk website. Therefore it is perfectly acceptable for a public authority to provide a requestor with a link to such information.

However, under Section 16 of the FOIA (the duty to provide advice and assistance) I have attached a pdf version of the document that is provided on the link I sent you on 12th May 2017.

Further, I’m sorry that you feel you have not been provided with clarity around the questions you have asked.

In your original request you asked the following question:
In 2004, what Child Welfare protocols were in place in order to ensure that a vulnerable Child who finds their Mother dead had immediate access to the best support, protection and care following the tragedy?

The answer GMP provided was:
The working together protocol would have been in place. Children’s Services may have had access to support networks; we believe it would have been ad-hoc

You had asked for confirmation of any protocols that would have been in place in 2004, and GMP duly confirmed that there was such a protocol, and provided but its name. Therefore your question was answered in full. The fact that you had follow up questions based on the answer provided could not have been anticipated by ourselves.

Those follow up questions asked
1) What do you mean when you write "the working together protocol"?
2) What is the "working together protocol"?

For example, "working together" with which agencies?
(i) Which agencies were your referring to?
(ii) Do you mean the Council Tax agencies?
(iii) Do you mean the Government ones?
(iv) Maybe you are referring to ones within the NHS or the Greater Manchester Police?

On receipt of those supplementary questions further enquiries were immediately made within GMP and as soon as a response was available this was supplied to you.

Again, I’m sorry you believe you have not had a response to your enquiry but I believe that GMP has met its obligations under the FOIA in full. If you are still not happy with how your request has been dealt with then I would refer you again to your right of complaint, details attached.

Kind regards
David

David Kynaston
Information Compliance & Records Management Unit
Information Services Branch
Greater Manchester Police
   

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Dear Greater Manchester Police,

Thank you for your reply.

Please help me identify how and where you answered my FOI query "in full" when you wrote ...

"The working together protocol would have been in place. Children’s Services may have had access to support networks; we believe it would have been ad-hoc"

Anyone who reads my "follow questions" will see that my queries were legitimate under The Freedom Of Information Act, I quote " members of the public are entitled to request information from public authorities".

Can I remind you that you are a "public servant"? You are there to serve the public - its not the other way around you know!

Yours faithfully,

Fiona Watts

Dear David Kynaston, Greater Manchester Police,

Please note;
"The Freedom of Information Act 2000 provides public access to information held by public authorities. It does this in two ways: public authorities are obliged to publish certain information about their activities; and. members of the public are entitled to request information from public authorities"

1) The problem that you have given me;

a. The link that you have provided me is for data in 2015.

b. I asked you to verify data in circulation in 2004

c. PLEASE could you fully comply with my FOI within the full remit of The Freedom of Information Act as outlined for you above?

d. Or will I be forced to charge you with misconduct in public office?

You see, I have nothing left to lose; I've discovered that rather than admit and error and learn from it, "the police" rather destroy a Good Samaritan, who brought up a child, full time, with the help of their savings and then their credit card.

Yours concerned,

Fiona Watts
#lawcommipo

Greater Manchester Police

Ms Watts,

Thank you for your emails this morning.

I can confirm that your supplementary questions, raised on 18/04/17 were indeed treated as legitimate under the Freedom of Information Act 200 (FOIA) and dealt with as such. I have provided responses to those questions on 12/05/17.

Again, as per my answer to you in my email of 12/05/17 the protocol you enquired about is updated every couple of years, and so the link I provided was to the latest available version. The version from 2004 is no longer held as it has been replaced/superseded numerous times since.

Again, as per my email dated 15/05/17, if you are unhappy with the way your request under the FOIA has been dealt with you are fully entitled to ask for an internal review to be conducted. Would you like me to request that this progress is started?

Other than that I am afraid I am unable to assist you any further in this matter.

Kind regards
David

David Kynaston
Information Compliance & Records Management Unit
Information Services Branch
Greater Manchester Police
   

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Greater Manchester Police

Dear Ms Watts,

I've just had a notification that my email below may not have been delivered and so I'm resending it to be sure you have received it. Apologies if you receive it twice.

Kind regards
David

David Kynaston
Information Compliance & Records Management Unit
Information Services Branch
Greater Manchester Police

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Dear David & your line management at Greater Manchester Police,

Thank you for your replies.

Please could you note that I never sought conflict with Greater Manchester Police; I just want to ensure that lessons are learned from the past but it seems that the agenda of cover up continues?

RE: GMHSC Partnership
The outline of protocols that exist today - will be wholly different from 2004.
Why?
Since 1st April 2017, you've had the inception of Greater Manchester’s Health and Social Care Partnership team.

Are you really stating on here that an organisation such as yours has no department, agency or an employee within it who would have monitored, tracked and kept on file a copy of the procedures and protocols that were in place in 2004 when officers responded to a call that two children had found their mother dead in Chorlton?

Really?

Yours faithfully,

Fiona Watts

Greater Manchester Police

Good afternoon Ms Watts,

I have again checked with the relevant party within GMP and can confirm that we do not hold a copy of the version of the protocol that was in place in 2004 as there would be no purpose to keep an outdated copy.

Kind regards
David

David Kynaston
Information Compliance & Records Management Unit
Information Services Branch
Greater Manchester Police
   

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Dear Greater Manchester Police,

Surely the purpose of keeping an outdated copy of the protocols was so that police staff might use it as a spring board to review and improve "services" to the public in the future?

I mean, how can Public Servants LEARN if there is no will to learn from past errors? Or is the default always going to be a remit of "cover up"?

Yours concerned,

Fiona Watts

Greater Manchester Police

Good morning Ms Watts,

Please note, the protocol in question is not solely a police document, as it is jointly produced by a number of agencies such as local authorities. It could be that such a partner may have retained a copy of the version that was in place in 2004, but am I obviously unaware if any have. You would have to submit similar FOI requests to those public authorities in order to ascertain that.

I note you have updated the subject line of these emails to "Internal Review of..." yet there is not request for such a review contained within the body of your email below.

Can you please clarify if you would like your request to GMP reviewing and if that is your intention I will of course arrange for a review to be logged.

Kind regards
David

David Kynaston
Performance & Communications Officer
Information Compliance & Records Management Unit
Information Services Branch
Greater Manchester Police
   

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Dear Greater Manchester Police,

Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.

I am writing to request an internal review of Greater Manchester Police's handling of my FOI request 'When a vulnerable 7 year old a child finds their mother dead .....'.

Mr Kynaston wrote on 24th May 2017;
"Please note, the protocol in question is not solely a police document, as it is jointly produced by a number of agencies such as local authorities".

and

"You would have to submit similar FOI requests to those public authorities in order to ascertain that"

Unfortunately, the advice and information given to today is not compliant with UK data laws because I have failed to ascertain from you WHICH Public Authorities should have been contacted in 2004 ... When a vulnerable 7 year old child finds their mother dead?

The reason why I wish to confirm those protocols is because from 2009, a UK citizen who did intervene to care for a child full time between 2004 and 2006 and part time until 2011, seems to have been criminalised, harassed, bullied, forcibly drugged and then incarcerated by those she sought help from in the Council Tax Services.

The citizen's health and career were wrecked for telling the truth.

This is why the question about WHICH public authorities since 2004 would have/should have/ could have been contacted by the police has become such an important issue on this website.

A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/w...

Yours faithfully,

Fiona Watts

Dear Greater Manchester Police,

This is the outcome that I would like from the review of my FOI enquiries.

A simple clarification is sought under UK data laws on the following GMP protocols for 2004;

A) When a police officer or NHS staff employee arrive at a scene whereby two vulnerable children find their mother dead; WHO. WHICH, WHAT services would have been contacted to ensure that the victims were given the best opportunity to REPAIR?

B) I am confused as to why there are so many wordy responses but no actual straightforward list of WHICH authorities would have/ should have/ could have been contacted after such a tragedy?

C) When a child loses their Mother - who had the responsibility of checking on the WELFARE of the children afterwards?

*Its a simple request & in light of recent tragic events, a relevant enquiry don't you think?

(Or do I have to produce a 15 foot banner & display my questions on that because staff at Suffolk Constabulary have classed me as "vexatious" for asking them the same question between 2008 and 2017.

Yours faithfully,

Fiona Watts

Greater Manchester Police

Dear Miss Watts,

Thank you for your email.

Please take this email as acknowledgement of your request for an internal review of your recent FOI request (our ref 767/17).

Regards

Rachael Bigland
Information Compliance & Records Management Unit

Information Services Branch
Greater Manchester Police

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Dear Greater Manchester Police,

A) The hard working volunteers behind this site were led to believe that the contact email for the Greater Manchester Partnership was as follows; [email address]

B) The address was sourced from this document.
http://www.gmsafeguardingchildren.co.uk/...

C) Unfortunately, nobody is responding to the FOI requests.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/h...

HELP & TRANSPARENCY SOUGHT; CAN YOU HELP?

Do you have the right email address for the Greater Manchester Partnership so that the delayed FOI's might be progressed in compliance with UK data laws?

Yours faithfully and with kindest regards,

Fiona Watts

Greater Manchester Police

Good Morning,

As the information you are requesting is from a different organisation, this is not something Greater Manchester Police can assist with, however you could try http://www.gmsafeguardingchildren.co.uk/... and try to speak to someone at the GMSP about your FOI request.

Kind Regards

Rachael Bigland
Information Compliance & Records Management Unit

Information Services Branch
Greater Manchester Police

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Greetings Rachel,

I am nervous that you seem to be drawing me into conflict with you; when I do not seek any conflict with you. I am resigned to the fact that the agenda of this police force is an agenda of cover up rather than allowing the staff to "learn from their mistakes", especially as those staff are still active and about to draw a pension.

It is with regret that I have to point out to you that you are factually incorrect in your posting today.

Terms of Reference;
In the Internal Review ( that should have started by now) your agency should have identified that the GMHSC Partnership is the very same agency that Greater Manchester Police should/ could/ would get in touch with if a 7 year old boy found their deceased Mother today.

GMHSC is made up of the agencies to whom David Kynaston referred to in the link provided to this seemingly faulty FOI request earlier on here on the 15th May 2017.

Are you really stating on here that Manchester Police have no record of the best email to contact those agencies in the " Working Together to Safeguard Children" document that your department sent me a link for ( after ignoring my opening request about "links".

Question; as is my legal right to do with the unresolved FOI responses on here;

Your intervention today suggests that things seem to be as "ad hoc" as they were in 2004?

Yours faithfully,

Fiona Watts

Greater Manchester Police

Good evening Fiona,

My colleague Rachael is correct that we don’t have a contact email designated to Freedom of Information requests for the GM Safeguarding Partnership. I have had a look online, but because the GMSP is a cooperative partnership consisting of local safeguarding boards, I have not been able to pin down a 'central' contact address or number.

Sorry we cannot be of more help here.

For information, your internal review has been logged, and will be processed as soon as possible by a member of the team.

Kind regards,
Ben

Ben Goddard
Information Compliance Officer

Information Management | Information Services Branch | Greater Manchester Police
External: 0161 856 2529  | Direct: 0161 856 2528 | Openshaw Complex, Lawton Street, Openshaw, Manchester, M11 2NS

Not available on Wednesdays

Follow us on Twitter: @gmpolice

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