Visits to obtain evidence
Dear Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman,
From your guidance.....
25. We have wide-ranging powers to request information or documents relevant to an investigation from any person3. It may be necessary when undertaking certain enquiries to cite the Ombudsman’s legal powers. If we experience difficulties at any stage of an investigation in obtaining documents or evidence from any party then the case should be escalated via line management and, where necessary, advice sought from the Legal Team. A Legal Team briefing note is available on our power to obtain information [link].
26.The amount or format (for example, computer files) of evidence may make it difficult for it to be sent to us. Where it is more practical or efficient to do so consider arranging to visit the premises where the evidence is held.
27.Consider whether it would be beneficial to conduct interviews, particularly in cases where the documentary evidence does not provide a clear picture of events or where we need to look into a particular area of concern.
::::
I would like to know:
(As outlined above)
1. How many organisations were visited in the last year after difficulties obtaining evidence?
2. Which organisations were visited?
3. How much time did the investigator spend on the organisations premises on each case?
4. Did the PHSO manage to obtain new evidence, that was previously withheld by those organisations?
5. Did these visits affect the outcome of the case?
.
Yours faithfully,
[Name Removed]
Thank you for your e-mail to the Parliamentary and Health Service
Ombudsman. This return e-mail shows that we have received your
correspondence.
All email communications with PHSO pass through the Government Secure
Intranet, and may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for
legal purposes.
The MessageLabs Anti Virus Service is the first managed service to achieve
the CSIA Claims Tested Mark (CCTM Certificate Number 2006/04/0007), the UK
Government quality mark initiative for information security products and
services. For more information about this please visit www.cctmark.gov.uk
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Dear Ms [first name redacted] Oakley<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>RE: Information request FDN-198433<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I write in response to your email of 7 August 2014 in which you requested information in the following terms:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;line-height:14.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>How many organisations were visited in the last year after difficulties obtaining evidence? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;line-height:14.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Which organisations were visited?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;line-height:14.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>How much time did the investigator spend on the organisations premises on each case?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;line-height:14.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>4.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Did the PHSO manage to obtain new evidence that was previously withheld by those organisations?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;line-height:14.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>5.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Did these visits affect the outcome of the case?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Firstly I can tell you that we are aware of organisations being visited by caseworkers to obtain evidence. This may be for a number of reasons, such as where document security practices do not allow information sharing in normal methods. Where this occurs, it is recorded on an investigation case file. However there is no standard indicator within these files which would help to identify which investigations required off site evidence retrieval or viewing. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Accordingly, to identify an accurate number of times this has occurred I would need to search through every investigation file for the last year. To do so would take significant time, and would exceed the appropriate limit set out by section 12 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. As such, I am unable to provide you with any of the information you have requested. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>If you are unhappy with my decision you can ask for a review by email to: <u><span style='color:blue'>complaints</span></u><a href="mailto:[email address]" title="mailto:[email address]">[email address]</a>. If you still have concerns after that, you can ask the Information Commissioner’s Office to look into your case. Their contact details are available on their website at: <a href="http://www.ico.org.uk">www.ico.org.uk</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Yours sincerely<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>David Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>FOI/Data Protection Officer<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>E: <a href="mailto:[email address]">[email address]</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>W: <a href="http://www.ombudsman.org.uk/" title="http://www.ombudsman.org.uk/"><span style='color:black'>www.ombudsman.org.uk</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_____replyseparator"></a><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> [Name Removed] [mailto:[FOI #223811 email]] <br><b>Sent:</b> 07 August 2014 08:02<br><b>To:</b> foiofficer<br><b>Subject:</b> Freedom of Information request - Visits to obtain evidence<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Dear Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman,<br><br>From your guidance.....<br><br>25. We have wide-ranging powers to request information or documents relevant to an investigation from any person3. It may be necessary when undertaking certain enquiries to cite the Ombudsman’s legal powers. If we experience difficulties at any stage of an investigation in obtaining documents or evidence from any party then the case should be escalated via line management and, where necessary, advice sought from the Legal Team. A Legal Team briefing note is available on our power to obtain information [link].<br>26.The amount or format (for example, computer files) of evidence may make it difficult for it to be sent to us. Where it is more practical or efficient to do so consider arranging to visit the premises where the evidence is held.<br>27.Consider whether it would be beneficial to conduct interviews, particularly in cases where the documentary evidence does not provide a clear picture of events or where we need to look into a particular area of concern.<br><br>::::<br><br>I would like to know:<br><br>(As outlined above)<br><br>1. How many organisations were visited in the last year after difficulties obtaining evidence?<br><br>2. Which organisations were visited?<br><br>3. How much time did the investigator spend on the organisations premises on each case?<br><br>4. Did the PHSO manage to obtain new evidence, that was previously withheld by those organisations?<br><br>5. Did these visits affect the outcome of the case?<br>.<br><br>Yours faithfully,<br><br>[Name Removed]<br><br>-------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Please use this email address for all replies to this request:<br><a href="mailto:[FOI #223811 email]">[FOI #223811 email]</a><br><br>Is <a href="mailto:[email address]">[email address]</a> the wrong address for Freedom of Information requests to Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman? If so, please contact us using this form:<br><a href="https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/change_re...>https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/change_re...</a><br><br>Disclaimer: This message and any reply that you make will be published on the internet. Our privacy and copyright policies:<br><a href="https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/help/offi...>https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/help/offi...</a><br><br>If you find this service useful as an FOI officer, please ask your web manager to link to us from your organisation's FOI page.<br><br><br>-------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>PLEASE NOTE: THE ABOVE MESSAGE WAS RECEIVED FROM THE INTERNET.<br>On entering the GSI, this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Cable & Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs.<br>In case of problems, please call your organisational IT Helpdesk.<br>The MessageLabs Anti Virus Service is the first managed service to achieve the CSIA Claims Tested Mark (CCTM Certificate Number 2006/04/0007), the UK Government quality mark initiative for information security products and services. For more information about this please visit <a href="http://www.cctmark.gov.uk">www.cctmark.gov.uk</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>Bfoiofficere8foiofficer@ombudsman.org.ukd
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RE: }
[ WhatDoTheyKnow note: The above text was badly encoded, and has had strange characters removed. ]
Dear Ms [first name redacted] Oakley
RE: Information request FDN-198433
I write in response to your email of 7 August 2014 in which you requested
information in the following terms:
1. How many organisations were visited in the last year after
difficulties obtaining evidence?
2. Which organisations were visited?
3. How much time did the investigator spend on the organisations
premises on each case?
4. Did the PHSO manage to obtain new evidence that was previously
withheld by those organisations?
5. Did these visits affect the outcome of the case?
Firstly I can tell you that we are aware of organisations being visited by
caseworkers to obtain evidence. This may be for a number of reasons, such
as where document security practices do not allow information sharing in
normal methods. Where this occurs, it is recorded on an investigation
case file. However there is no standard indicator within these files
which would help to identify which investigations required off site
evidence retrieval or viewing.
Accordingly, to identify an accurate number of times this has occurred I
would need to search through every investigation file for the last year.
To do so would take significant time, and would exceed the appropriate
limit set out by section 12 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. As
such, I am unable to provide you with any of the information you have
requested.
If you are unhappy with my decision you can ask for a review by email to:
complaints[1][email address]. If you still have concerns after
that, you can ask the Information Commissioner’s Office to look into your
case. Their contact details are available on their website at:
[2]www.ico.org.uk.
Yours sincerely
David Thomas
FOI/Data Protection Officer
Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman
E: [3][email address]
W: [4]www.ombudsman.org.uk
From: [Name Removed] [[5]mailto:[FOI #223811 email]]
Sent: 07 August 2014 08:02
To: foiofficer
Subject: Freedom of Information request - Visits to obtain evidence
Dear Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman,
From your guidance.....
25. We have wide-ranging powers to request information or documents
relevant to an investigation from any person3. It may be necessary when
undertaking certain enquiries to cite the Ombudsman’s legal powers. If we
experience difficulties at any stage of an investigation in obtaining
documents or evidence from any party then the case should be escalated via
line management and, where necessary, advice sought from the Legal Team. A
Legal Team briefing note is available on our power to obtain information
[link].
26.The amount or format (for example, computer files) of evidence may make
it difficult for it to be sent to us. Where it is more practical or
efficient to do so consider arranging to visit the premises where the
evidence is held.
27.Consider whether it would be beneficial to conduct interviews,
particularly in cases where the documentary evidence does not provide a
clear picture of events or where we need to look into a particular area of
concern.
::::
I would like to know:
(As outlined above)
1. How many organisations were visited in the last year after
difficulties obtaining evidence?
2. Which organisations were visited?
3. How much time did the investigator spend on the organisations
premises on each case?
4. Did the PHSO manage to obtain new evidence, that was previously
withheld by those organisations?
5. Did these visits affect the outcome of the case?
.
Yours faithfully,
[Name Removed]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Please use this email address for all replies to this request:
[6][FOI #223811 email]
Is [7][email address] the wrong address for Freedom of
Information requests to Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman? If so,
please contact us using this form:
[8]https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/change_re...
Disclaimer: This message and any reply that you make will be published on
the internet. Our privacy and copyright policies:
[9]https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/help/offi...
If you find this service useful as an FOI officer, please ask your web
manager to link to us from your organisation's FOI page.
Dear foiofficer,
Please note - this is intended to be a helpful clarification - and NOT a new request.
:::::
There cannot be great numbers of employees engaged on ex-office investigations and information gathering at government organisations.
So surely it would be a simple matter to consult their expenses files - as clearly a close watch must be kept by PHSO accountants, presumably with codes, on claims by those employees.
Or do employees not have to account for their time and whereabouts - when claiming expenses - away from their normal places of work ?
Yours sincerely,
[Name Removed]
Thank you for your e-mail to the Parliamentary and Health Service
Ombudsman. This return e-mail shows that we have received your
correspondence.
All email communications with PHSO pass through the Government Secure
Intranet, and may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for
legal purposes.
The MessageLabs Anti Virus Service is the first managed service to achieve
the CSIA Claims Tested Mark (CCTM Certificate Number 2006/04/0007), the UK
Government quality mark initiative for information security products and
services. For more information about this please visit www.cctmark.gov.uk
Brenda Prentice left an annotation ()
It has been my experience that the PHSO will not challenge Authorities if it can help it. The fear of them challenging back puts PHSO off going there it seems to me. Therefore no need to visit unless vitally necessary.
I know a clinical advice specialist was asked several times to withdraw parts of the report and 'water down' other parts, so as not to give authorities the opportunity to say, that's not what was complained about. What had been quite a strong report ended up mild, editing out things not directly involved like 'skin care'. It had been ignored by staff but as it was not part of the detailed complaint it was not to be mentioned. PHSO tip toes round authority.
J Roberts left an annotation ()
James Titcombe has kindly provided a link to the second external review of his complaint which reveals shocking failings in the PHSO evidence gathering process:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8nb0wwaoj2y0su...
I am making this comment and providing the link so that it may help others frame important questions they may wish to ask the PHSO. I fully understand that the PHSO may consider what I write "unkind" and seek to have the comment and link removed, action they have taken before in respect of other comments posted on this site.
"The draft decision letter provided by the Assessor is completely different from the letter that finally emerged, because it made no claims about looking at the investigation carried out by SHA/LSA [Strategic Health Authority/Local Supervisory Authority]. It is not clear from the file how the letter that emerged was so very different." (page 6)
I think more detail is required here. If the PHSO cannot get to the bottom of this matter and identify the exactly what happened complainants are unlikely to have any confidence in how their complaints are handled. To assist me and perhaps others in using the services offered by this site correctly can anyone tell me whether the PHSO examined rejected complaints to find out the extent of mismatch between draft decision letters and final decision letters?
[Name Removed] (Account suspended) left an annotation ()
I have had three cases upheld by Ombudsmen.
The only difference between me and those that lost their cases was that I assumed people would lie to cover up their negligence from Day 1.
C Rock left an annotation ()
"27. Consider whether it would be beneficial to conduct interviews, particularly in cases where the documentary evidence does not provide a clear picture of events or where we need to look into a particular area of concern"
Were there any examples of step (27) being positively employed? I would really have valued this approach (as expected) rather than 'discretion' used to ignore my evidence and make assumptions about it in favour of case closure.
[Name Removed] (Account suspended) left an annotation ()
Thank you C Rock.
It's blatantly obvious that this isn't being carried out.
The percentage of upheld cases would be very much higher if it was.
I don't know one single person who states that they don't think essential records have been withheld.
Dear Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman,
Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.
I am writing to request an internal review of Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman's handling of my FOI request 'Visits to obtain evidence'.
No reply to suggestion that external visits to obtain evidence should be coded on expense forms.
As the PHSO must surely have a method for determining the cost reasons for employees working elsewhere.
A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/v...
Yours faithfully,
[Name Removed]
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Dear Ms [first name redacted] Oakley
We are writing in response to your email of 4 October 2014. We are sorry
that you are dissatisfied with our handling of your information request
entitled ‘Visits to obtain evidence’.
Under our internal complaints procedure, your complaint has been passed to
our Head of Risk, Assurance and Programme Management Office, Mr Steve
Brown.
Mr Brown will consider your concerns and will send you a full reply once
his review is complete. This review of your complaint is the only review
that we will undertake.
We aim to reply to such complaints within 40 working days.
Yours sincerely
Review Team
Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman
Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman
T: 0300 061 4076
E: [1][email address]
W: [2]www.ombudsman.org.uk
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All email communications with PHSO pass through the Government Secure
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Government quality mark initiative for information security products and
services. For more information about this please visit www.cctmark.gov.uk
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Mr. A.Tester left an annotation ()
Steve Brown?
Has Papa Brown got a "BRAND NEW template" per chance?!
Steve Brown
Head of Risk and Assurance
Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman
E: [email address]
W: [1]www.ombudsman.org.uk
Follow us on
[2]fb [3]twitter [4]linkedin
All email communications with PHSO pass through the Government Secure
Intranet, and may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for
legal purposes.
The MessageLabs Anti Virus Service is the first managed service to achieve
the CSIA Claims Tested Mark (CCTM Certificate Number 2006/04/0007), the UK
Government quality mark initiative for information security products and
services. For more information about this please visit www.cctmark.gov.uk
References
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2. http://www.facebook.com/phsombudsman
3. http://www.twitter.com/PHSOmbudsman
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[Name Removed] (Account suspended) left an annotation ()
So staff make visits to other premises. But don't have to say why.
And use the PHSO 's computer equipment to shop, book holidays and reference drugs,
The PHSO seems extremely trusting of their staff.
Good job it's taxpayers money... it wouldn't be tolerated in private industry,
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C Rock left an annotation ()
I was so naive when I made my first PHSO complaint I thought I would naturally get a home visit - there was so much to impart on my experiences. The natural assumption was that the the offending government service departments (NHS Trusts etc) and their contractors (GPs) would also be visited to get their side of the story and collect fact.
Neither happened, and the PHSO just made assumptions, without contact, to fill in the missing 'evidence'.
Now that I have seen how the system works it is fairly obvious that it's not in the best interests of the PHSO to look for problems which might complicate "resolution".
..