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Vairible speed limit m6 southbound

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Dear Highways England Agency,

Please could you provide me with the variable speed limit for the
following location; M6 Southbound between Junctions 10A-13 (500 metres before Hilton park services) on
20/01/2020 between 08:15 and 08:45

Yours faithfully,

David Williams

Highways England, Highways England Company Limited

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6. mailto:[Highways England request email]

Wood, Andy (NCM), Highways England Company Limited

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Williams,

 

I have been passed your enquiry to our Customer Contact Centre (reference
21552319) relating to the M6 on the 20^th of January.

 

First of all thank you for contacting Highways England and reading through
your enquiry I can see that you are looking for the variable speed limits
showing on the M6 between junctions 13 and 10a on the 20^th of January
between 08.15 and 08.45.

 

I have requested and will attach a Halogen report that shows all speeds
showing as requested.

 

Just to add a little detail to the report

Column A identifies the date and time

Column B shows whether the device was a Message Sign (MSS) or a signal
(SIG)

Column C shows the location of the device

Column D shows the speed or message displayed on road

Column E identifies whether the device was set by an Operator in the
control room (OIF) or set automatically (AUTO)

Column F shows whether or not the device was set as a result of a Midas
trigger (MID) or not.

Column G shows the reason the signal or message was set.

 

I have taken the liberty of highlighting in yellow the lines that show
where speeds were showing on road.

 

Finally just to add a little context to the report, every single message
or speed shown on the report was set automatically (AUTO) as a result of
Midas (MID) in essence the technology embedded into the carriageway of the
motorway automatically set speeds or message signs whenever traffic was
slowing or congested. Again reading through the report I can see that the
reason Midas was triggering was as a result of queues ahead.

 

My final comment would be that Highways England are not a law enforcement
team, we do not operate speed cameras and our control room do not set
speeds to slow motorists down, most speeds showing on road are set
automatically by the technology embedded into the road.

 

Again thank you for contacting Highways England and I hope the information
helps,

 

Kind regards

 

Andy

 

Andrew Wood  National Consistency Manager, (Operations Directorate)
Web: [1]http://www.highwaysengland.co.uk

Highways England | West Midlands ROC | c/o The Cube | 199 Wharfside Street
| Birmingham | B1 1RN

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Highways England Company Limited | General enquiries: 0300 123 5000
|National Traffic Operations Centre, 3 Ridgeway, Quinton Business Park,
Birmingham B32 1AF |
[3]https://www.gov.uk/government/organisati... |
[4][Highways England request email]

 

Registered in England and Wales no 9346363 | Registered Office: Bridge
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4. mailto:[Highways England request email]

Dear Wood, Andy (NCM),

Many thanks for that information, is there a reference map I can use to see where on the m6 south bound an equipment reference lives, i.e it's possitioning on the motoway.

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Service Delivery WM, Highways England Company Limited

Dear Mr Williams,

Thankyou for your secondary email and question concerning a reference map for equipment references.

Sadly there isn't a map that I can send you, the reason being we refer to marker posts as opposed to junctions. A marker post is located every 500m to allow our control room to pinpoint an incident, this allows the room to quickly and accurately sign to protect customers involved in incidents on the motorway. Of course what this means is that it is totally unfeasible to produce a map showing each parker post (500m apart).

What I can offer you is the information below which should help.

Just referring to the spreadsheet that I sent you a day or so ago, and in particular Column C (equipment references), I will highlight below the areas between Junctions 13 and Junctions 10a where the (equipment references are located).

Junction 13 Equipment reference 6192, Marker post 219/2
Junction 12 Equipment reference 6122, Marker post 212/2
Junction 11 Equipment reference 6063, Marker post 206/3
Junction 10a Equipment reference 6037, Marker post 203/7

I appreciate that this information is a little confusing but the easiest way to explain it is as follows,

If you had a marker post reference of 205/0 using the information above you can see that it is between junctions 11 and 10a, and referencing the same marker post to the spreadsheet that I sent, you would be looking for equipment references between 6063 and 6037.

Again I know the explanation is a little hard to follow, and I genuinely hope that my explanation helps.

Kind regards

Andy

Andrew Wood  National Consistency Manager, (Operations Directorate)
Web: http://www.highwaysengland.co.uk
Highways England | West Midlands ROC | c/o The Cube | 199 Wharfside Street | Birmingham | B1 1RN

show quoted sections

Dear Andy

Many Thanks for sending this through, the references you give in your email I can't see in the spreadsheet you sent on, does this mean those overhead signals weren't switched on between those times, or have I got the wrong sheet?

Also what do the codes mean within column D, I.e. NR ?

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Service Delivery WM, Highways England Company Limited

2 Attachments

Hi David,

 

Apologies for the delay in replying, I don't work weekends and so just
catching up from last week.

 

Just to answer your questions below, the codes or information in Column D
show what is showing on road, if you look at the screenshot below it is
showing what was set on signal number 6096B1, what you are seeing is that
due to a MIDAS trigger (MID), speeds were automatically (AUTO) lowered to
50mph and then to 40mph, speeds cannot drop by an increment of 20mph and
so that is why you see them reduce to 50mph, and then very quickly to
40mph. MIDAS triggers recalibrate every couple of minutes and so shortly
before 2 minutes MIDAS then amended the signal to show No Restriction
(NR), this would be showing on road as END, and then 3 minutes later this
was again automatically changed to OFF which means there was nothing
showing on road.

 

If you have a specific marker post that you need to know what was set, and
can inform me of the details, I would be able to give you a definitive
answer, but in short if a speed is showing as active on the report it will
remain active until it shows as being NR or OFF on the report.

 

Again I hope that helps

 

Kind regards

 

Andy

 

 

Andrew Wood  National Consistency Manager, (Operations Directorate)

Web: http://www.highwaysengland.co.uk

Highways England | West Midlands ROC | c/o The Cube | 199 Wharfside Street
| Birmingham | B1 1RN

        

 

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Dear Andy,

No problem at all, hope you had a good weekend,

I'm not sure of the marker post number, I'm looking for what the speed would have been set to on the last sign around Hilton Park Services, I think it would be before it, it would be at about 8:30 but I guess I need to know when it was set and cleared in the run up to that time and just after.

Thank you for your help

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Service Delivery WM, Highways England Company Limited

1 Attachment

Hi David,

 

Obviously this is just an educated guess, but based on the information
that you have offered the closest gantry (showing speeds) to Hilton Park
Services would be Reference 6061B.

 

I have filtered the report that I gave you last week to show this gantry
only, and as you can see it is showing Queue Ahead signs, followed by
speeds of 50mph, and later speeds of 60mph.

 

Of course as you have stated you don’t know the marker post but have
stated around Hilton Park services, the figures below may not be from the
gantry that relates, but will give you an indication of what was set.

 

Kind regards

 

Andy

 

Andrew Wood  National Consistency Manager, (Operations Directorate)

Web: http://www.highwaysengland.co.uk

Highways England | West Midlands ROC | c/o The Cube | 199 Wharfside Street
| Birmingham | B1 1RN

        

 

show quoted sections

Dear Andy,

Am i correct in thinking then that there were no indications for that stretch of road that a 40 limit was in place around that area, I only know it's about 500 meters before the service station. My memory of the morning was non of a 40.

We would have been there are around 8:36.

Thank you again

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Service Delivery WM, Highways England Company Limited

1 Attachment

Hi David,

Obviously without a confirmed marker post or time I wouldn't be able to give you a definitive answer, but just looking at the Halogen report there are a number of speeds active (ranging from 40mph to 60mph) at 08.07, and then again later at 08.42, and at 08.53. and so at the time line that you have offered there would be a strong possibility that speeds were active.

Just one final comment if I may, but if this query relates to speed enforcement, then it would need to be addressed by the police as opposed to Highways England, the only reason that I say that is because we are not a money making team and do not have any police powers or indeed any speed cameras, we do not set speeds on behalf of the police and do not know the location of any police enforcement cameras.

As you will see from the report (attached) most active speeds are set automatically by technology as opposed to an operator within the control room.

Again, I hope this helps

Kind regards

Andy

Andrew Wood  National Consistency Manager, (Operations Directorate)
Web: http://www.highwaysengland.co.uk
Highways England | West Midlands ROC | c/o The Cube | 199 Wharfside Street | Birmingham | B1 1RN

show quoted sections

Dear Andy,

Appriceiate your not the ones to take anything up with regarding enforcement. I'm just looking to check what it should have been.

Looking at the spreadsheet the Marker which has 40R against it M6/6096B1 is set at 08:08:05 but has an OFF at 08:13:01
Also M6/6096B2 has 40R at 08:08:05 but off at 08:13:01

Would that mean that no 40 limit would be on along that stretch?

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Service Delivery WM, Highways England Company Limited

Hi David,

Yes absolutely, looking at the report the speeds of 40 would have been active at 08.08, and then cleared at 08.13.

Kind regards

Andy

Andrew Wood  National Consistency Manager, (Operations Directorate)
Web: http://www.highwaysengland.co.uk
Highways England | West Midlands ROC | c/o The Cube | 199 Wharfside Street | Birmingham | B1 1RN

show quoted sections

Dear Andy,

Thank you for all your time on this, as you guess it is due to an enforcement issue, camera before the services near 10a southbound, wish I know the gantry to give you, I remember going with flow of traffic so was surprised to get a ticket for being in a 40. Do you know if there were road works on that stretch, if there were would gantries be set for that?

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Dear Andy,

I believe I might know the marker post, on the letter received it stats 6061BHADECS as the reference, I'm guessing that means marker post 6061B and the type of camera.

In the spreadsheet you kindly provided I can only see warning messages for that particular message board / gantry sign?

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Service Delivery WM, Highways England Company Limited

1 Attachment

Hi David,

 

Just filtering the spreadsheet to the marker post that you have advised,
you can see below that traffic was queuing in the area from 08.09, a
little later on at 08.42 the speeds automatically (Auto) reduced to 50,
and then again at 08.53 the speeds again automatically changed to 60mph.

 

Again, I hope this helps

 

Kind regards

 

Andy

 

 

Andrew Wood  National Consistency Manager, (Operations Directorate)

Web: http://www.highwaysengland.co.uk

Highways England | West Midlands ROC | c/o The Cube | 199 Wharfside Street
| Birmingham | B1 1RN

        

 

show quoted sections

Dear Andy ,

Thanks for that, can you see further back as to when the last speed indication was given for that marker please?

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Service Delivery WM, Highways England Company Limited

1 Attachment

Hi David,

 

As requested please see below a further screenshot of a Halogen report.

 

I have filtered the report to only show gantry 6061 and extended the time
line.

 

Looking at the report I have highlighted the active speeds, 40mph speeds
were active from 07.34 and were Automatically set by Midas, the speeds
changed to 50mph at 08.42, and again to 60mph at 08.53 again set
Automatically by Midas.

 

Kind regards

 

Andy

 

 

Andrew Wood  National Consistency Manager, (Operations Directorate)

Web: http://www.highwaysengland.co.uk

Highways England | West Midlands ROC | c/o The Cube | 199 Wharfside Street
| Birmingham | B1 1RN

        

 

show quoted sections

Dear Andy,

One last question I think,

It's got 40R at 7:34 and that's displayed,

The spreadsheet shows at 08:35 a 'Symbol 2 - (Queue) Queue Ahead does that mean that's what is displayed on the gantry at that particular time? If so how long does that ake to switch back to saying 40?

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Dear Andy,

In addition to the question regarding the signal message, are there any other gantries between this one and the end of the m6 Road works?

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Service Delivery WM, Highways England Company Limited

2 Attachments

Hi David,

 

That is an easy question to answer, if you look at Column B on the report
below it is indicating whether the device is a SIG ( Signal displaying a
speed), or MSS (Message Sign showing a message), and so the 40R speeds
that were active at 07.34, remained active  until 08.42 when they changed
to 50mph.

 

Most gantries have the ability to show a speed (SIG) alongside a message
(MSS), as highlighted below, and so the speeds of 40 were showing
alongside the message “queue ahead”, and not instead of.

 

Kind regards

 

Andy

 

 

 

[1]cid:image001.png@01D5E0CF.AB77B9A0

 

Andrew Wood  National Consistency Manager, (Operations Directorate)

Web: http://www.highwaysengland.co.uk

Highways England | West Midlands ROC | c/o The Cube | 199 Wharfside Street
| Birmingham | B1 1RN

        

 

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Dear Andy,

Thanks for you help, I can only think we've come out of the road works and through the national speed signs and people have sped up (me included) and not noticed it straight back to 40.

Again many thanks for your help.

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Dear Andy,

Hi Andy,
is it possible to check where the last gantry before the one in question is positioned (presumably it stated 40?) and was that gantry within a set of road works on the 20th Janurary?

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Service Delivery WM, Highways England Company Limited

1 Attachment

Hi David,

 

Apologies for the delay in replying, I have been out of office for the
last couple of days.

 

I have requested and will screenshot another Halogen report below, I have
highlighted in yellow the speeds and messages from the gantry prior to the
one I advised in my last email.

 

You are correct, and the speeds are similar if not the same, they are
showing 50mph at 07.34, dropping 40mph at 07.46, and then returning to
50mph at 07.49, again all Automatically triggered as a result of MIDAS,
which is exactly what I would expect to see.

 

Kind regards

 

Andy

 

 

Andrew Wood  National Consistency Manager, (Operations Directorate)

Web: http://www.highwaysengland.co.uk

Highways England | West Midlands ROC | c/o The Cube | 199 Wharfside Street
| Birmingham | B1 1RN

        

 

show quoted sections

Dear Andy,

No worries, thank you for getting back to me,

I'm fine with that, was that gantry however before the M6 splits towards the toll road, and also was it within the roadworks on the M6 southbound?

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Service Delivery WM, Highways England Company Limited

1 Attachment

Hi David,

 

We do not have any active gantries within the long term roadworks area and
so I cannot produce a report for that location, but if you look at the
screenshot below Equipment Ref 6096b would be the closest gantry to the M6
Toll split, and as you can see speeds were fluctuating between 40mph and
50mph at around 08.07 and 08.08.

 

Kind regards

 

Andy

 

 

Andrew Wood  National Consistency Manager, (Operations Directorate)

Web: http://www.highwaysengland.co.uk

Highways England | West Midlands ROC | c/o The Cube | 199 Wharfside Street
| Birmingham | B1 1RN

        

 

show quoted sections

Dear Andy,

No problem, just looking on Google Maps, there's a gantry just after 6096 which is on the M6 and after the split, I can see on google using street view the numbers of the other gantries and can see 6096 which has a camera on it and is befor the split,

Can you tell me what this other gantry number is and the speed which that was set at please?

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Dear Andy,

There is actually another I can see which has no label, and then follows 6075L and 6067

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Dear Andy,

Sorry for a few in a row here, I think at the moment my understanding is,

6106 was turned off at 08:09?
6096 was turned off at 08:12(13)ish?
Unknown next camera?
Second Unknown Camera?
6075L I'm unsure of timings if that was off or set to a speed
6067 set to 50 at 7:49
6061 set to 40 at 7:34

Could you fill in the 3 blanks at all please?

Yours sincerely,

David Williams

Service Delivery WM, Highways England Company Limited

7 Attachments

Hi David,

 

Just to answer these last few questions for you, I have attached
screenshots below for each the 7 gantries that relate to your questions.

 

 

6106 was turned off at 08:09? Correct between 08.09.55 and 08.0958

6096 was turned off at 08:12(13)ish? Correct between 08.12.58 and 08.13.01

Unknown next camera? Gantry 6086 turned off at 08.13.01

Second Unknown Camera? Gantry 6081 turned off at 08.52.19

6075L I'm unsure of timings if that was off or set to a speed 6075B is the
main carriageway 6075L is located on the exit slip speeds of 60mph and
50mph were set from 07.40 and cleared at 08.55.21

6067 set to 50 at 7:49 50s active from 07.34 and 08.15.18

6061 set to 40 at 7:34 correct 40s set from 07.34 and cleared at 08.58.18

 

Kind regards

 

Andy

 

[1]cid:image001.png@01D5E7EC.E8267430

[2]cid:image002.png@01D5E7EC.E8267430

[3]cid:image003.png@01D5E7ED.5DBA3F10

[4]cid:image004.png@01D5E7ED.5DBA3F10

[5]cid:image005.png@01D5E7ED.AB154160

[6]cid:image006.png@01D5E7EE.3CE85730

[7]cid:image007.png@01D5E7EE.3CE85730

 

 

 

Andrew Wood  National Consistency Manager, (Operations Directorate)

Web: http://www.highwaysengland.co.uk

Highways England | West Midlands ROC | c/o The Cube | 199 Wharfside Street
| Birmingham | B1 1RN

        

 

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We don't know whether the most recent response to this request contains information or not – if you are David Williams please sign in and let everyone know.