Use of public money for donations

Response to this request is long overdue. By law, under all circumstances, Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner should have responded by now (details). You can complain by requesting an internal review.

Dear Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner,

I would like you to provide me with the regulations on how the Crime Commissioner can use public money for donations and what donations have been made with public money with/without authority.

I refer to the following publication where Clive Grunshaw donated a Police Motorcycle to a charity. This is identified here in this article.
https://nwbb-lancs.org/blog/post.php?s=2...

While this may be a worthwhile charity, my request is, who decides which charity is in receipt of donations and, with this being public money, what authority does the commissioner have to make such donations to charities that the public may or may not support?

[potentially defamatory material removed]

So, my request is
1. Who provides authority for such donations out of public funds.
2. Please provide a list of all donations via your office since 2010

If it is not possible to provide the information requested due to the information exceeding the cost of compliance limits identified in Section 12, please provide advice and assistance, under your Section 16 obligations, as to how I can refine my request to be included in the scope of the Act. In any case, if you can identify ways that my request could be refined please provide further advice and assistance to indicate this.

I look forward to your response within 20 working days, as stipulated by the Act.

Yours faithfully,

Paul Ponting

Ian Dickinson, Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Ponting,
Please see the attached acknowledgement for your attention.
Yours sincerely,
Jane Pearson

Dear Ian Dickinson,

Please could you possibly clarify the last message.

I sent my request for information on the 22nd August. You have responded saying I made a request on 2st August? You have also stated that 20 days from this date is the 19th August which is 3 days PRIOR to my request.

Please can you clarity the response date.

Yours sincerely,

Paul Ponting

Ian Dickinson, Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Ponting,
Please see the attached correspondence for your attention.
Yours sincerely,
Jane Pearson

Ian Dickinson, Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Ponting,
Please see the attached correspondence for your attention.
Yours sincerely,
Jane Pearson

Dear Ian Dickinson,

In response to your letter, you state

"I appreciate that the press release infers that the motorbike was donated to the Blood Bike Charity. However, this was not the case. "

I would argue that the article does more that 'infer', it categorically states tat this motorcycle, of significant value, was donated by the Crime Commissioner to the charity.

The title states
"Police donate a bike"

the article states
"Commissioner donates Blood Bike to charity"
and
"Clive Grunshaw has donated the bike to the North West Blood Bikes Lancs and Lakes (NWBB L&L)"

This clearly states that Clive Grunshaw donated an asset of significant value to a charity.

It is also quotes that Clive Grunshaw said
"I am delighted to have been able to make this donation to NWBB L&L."
and
"I hope by donating this bike NWBB L&L will be able to make even more life-saving deliveries to Lancashire’s hospitals. "

There is no inference but a clear statement this motorcycle was 'donated'.

This was further clarified by the charity Chairman, Paul Brooks (JP and ex police officer)
"The donation by Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner of a retiring police bike will help us enormously in our quest to save hospitals money."

Please can I ask why other charities are not considered in this 'scheme'?
This motorcycle could have EASILY been sold privately or at auction for a significant sum of money and could have been donated to other worthwhile causes. While you refer to it as an asset, it is a asset of significant value and you can see how it could be deemed as an abuse of process.

The Motorcycle was a police vehicle, purchased with public funds, (taxes, etc) and remains the property of the public.

I am asking for disclosure, (in the interest of transparency) for the financial records and tracking for the alleged transaction.

Yours sincerely,

Paul Ponting

Ian Dickinson, Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Ponting,
Please see the attached acknowledgement for your attention.
Yours sincerely,
Jane Pearson

Ian Dickinson, Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Ponting,
Please see the attached correspondence for your attention.
Yours sincerely,
Jane Pearson

Dear Ian Dickinson,

For clarification, could you ask the North West Blood Bikes for their comments as they make a CLEAR reference that the bike was donated to them by Clive Grunshaw. This is both misleading and false (assuming the facts you present are true). Their comments do therefore allege the bike was [potentially defamatory material removed] donated by the Crime Commissioner and raises questions as to why they would post such an erroneous comment?

https://nwbb-lancs.org/blog/post.php?s=2...

BEGIN QUOTE
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Commissioner donates Blood Bike to charity

A former police motorbike is set to take on a life-saving role thanks to Lancashire’s Police and Crime Commissioner. Clive Grunshaw has donated the bike to the North West Blood Bikes Lancs and Lakes (NWBB L&L), meaning it will now be used by volunteers delivering vital blood supplies to hospitals across the region. The charity only began its work in May 2012 but already its dedicated army of volunteers have made 2,500 runs, saving the NHS in excess of £100,000 – and this new bike will help the group make even more life-saving deliveries. The Commissioner, who officially handed the bike to NWBB L&L chairman Paul Brooks at Lancashire Constabulary HQ today (November 15), said: “I am delighted to have been able to make this donation to NWBB L&L. “The charity’s work is both vital and impressive – and is making a real difference in hospitals across Lancashire. The generosity of their volunteers is to be commended, and I am sure their time and effort is appreciated by both the NHS and the hundreds of residents across Lancashire whose lives they have helped save. “I hope by donating this bike NWBB L&L will be able to make even more life-saving deliveries to Lancashire’s hospitals.” Before NWBB L&L was formed, hospitals used to use taxis and courier services to provide them with out-of-hours emergency transport for supplies including blood and breast milk for premature and sick babies from the Milk Bank at the Countess of Chester Hospital. It would cost in excess of £100 for hospitals to have milk deliveries and around £40 for blood to be transported – money which can now be spent on patient care. Mr Brooks said: “The donation by Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner of a retiring police bike will help us enormously in our quest to save hospitals money. “We have liveried bikes equipped with blues & two’s in order to carry out Lifesaving Emergency collection and deliveries, particularly for whole blood, platelets and drugs, and with assistance from the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), all our riders are trained in the handling and carriage of all the items we carry.” The charity has over 200 volunteers and uses both liveried bikes as well as volunteers’ personal vehicles to make deliveries. NWBB L&L currently serves Lancashire Teaching Hospitals (Preston, Chorley, Southport & Ormskirk), Morecambe Bay Hospitals, (Lancaster, Kendal & Barrow) and Blackpool, is about to go live with Wrightington, Wigan and Leigh and with East Lancashire Hospitals (Blackburn and Burnley). Volunteer motorcyclist, controllers, fundraisers and sponsors can contact the organisation via www.nwbb-lancs.org.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
END QUOTE

You stated:
Through the Commissioner's Scheme of Governance approved on the 22 November 2012, the
Chief Constable is permitted to dispose of assets other than land, up to the values set out in
Financial Regulations.

What value of asset can the chief Constable 'dispose of'?
Who values the 'asset' prior to the Chief Constable 'disposing of it'.
What was the official valuation of PN07 ECJ at the time of donation.

Please provide formal documentation to the above valuations of public assets.

Why would such valuable asset be 'given away' they can easily have been sold and returned to the police funds.

What was the official process for donating such a valuable asset and why to this particular charity?
Bearing in mind, the NWBB charity chairman is an ex Lancashire police motorcyclist and a JP.

As an example, an R 1200 RT motorcycle is currently worth (at today's prices) as much as £6,000. I am keen to identify the valuation at the time the bike (police asset) was 'donated' the the charity whose chairman happens to be an ex Lancashire police motorcyclist.

With regards to the other bikes mentioned (for transparency), please can you provide the same information relating to valuation at the time of 'sale', who valued the bikes, and why they were 'sold' at a loss when they could have been sold for a higher value, possibly supporting multiple charities.

Yours sincerely,

Paul Ponting

Dear Ian Dickinson,

In addition to my last reply, please provide all related dates to the donations and sales as well as the bill of sale and other formal documentation where items were sold or donated.

Yours sincerely,

Paul Ponting

Dear Ian Dickinson,

I further ask if this is the document you refer to and ask for you to point out the section pertaining to the Chief Constable being able to dispose of assets and to what value?

https://lancashire-pcc.gov.uk/wp-content...

If this is not the correct document, please can you send a link to it.

I would appreciate this and my previous requests be dealt with as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely,

Paul Ponting

Ian Dickinson, Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Ponting,
Please see the attached correspondence for your attention.
Yours sincerely,
Jane Pearson

Ian Dickinson, Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Ponting,
Please see the attached correspondence for your attention.
Yours sincerely,
Jane Pearson

Dear Ian Dickinson,

My further questions are for clarification of information you vaguely provided and are not a new FOI request. I am still trying to ascertain the facts that you appear to be avoiding which is clear from your first response denying the donation that required pressure from me before you divulged it.

Please can you provide the information requested asap.

Yours sincerely,

Paul Ponting

Ian Dickinson, Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner

Dear Mr Ponting

Please find attached the responses to your Freedom of Information request.

Ian Dickinson, Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Ponting

Please find attached the responses to your Freedom of Information request.

Dickinson, Ian, Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner

10 Attachments

Dear Mr Ponting

 

Please find attached further responses to your Freedom of Information
Request.

 

Ian Dickinson

Governance & Policing Lead

Office of the Police and Crime Commissioner for Lancashire

Tel: 01772 533587

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carl robinson left an annotation ()

So the bikes were donated to a charity run by ex police with close ties to Rhodes ,wonder why the OPCC stated they were not donated

Dear Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner,

Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.

I am writing to request an internal review of Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner's handling of my FOI request 'Use of public money for donations'.

I am also asking that the OPCC automatically offer this ROI and the information within the the necessary body to investigation alleged fraud.

You said
"It is not within the remit of the Police and Crime Commissioner to ask the North West Blood
Bikes for their comments. "

It most certainly is! You have clearly alleged that they have misinterpreted your comments. If what you say is true, the OPCC should be chasing this up. The NWBB charity posted an article QUOTING you and you are denying it. It is in the interest of HONESTY and INTEGRITY that this be investigated!

I have also requested the exact 'value' the chief constable can dispose of. You have not answered this and in fact avoided the question. I asked and your original response was...

"Through the Commissioner's Scheme of Governance approved on the 22 November 2012, the
Chief Constable is permitted to dispose of assets other than land, up to the values set out in
Financial Regulations."

I asked you to clarify this value that you indicate was set out in the financial regulations, you now say

"As there is no specific value set out in the Financial Regulations it is a matter for the Chief
Constable/delegated officers to determine the value of the asset at the point of disposal."

You had clearly alleged that there was a value listed in the financial regulations and this was NOT TRUE. You have tried to manipulate this fact.

Finally, you said
"Motorcycle registration PN07 ECJ, was valued at £1500 by the Head of Business Support at
Lancashire Constabulary. "

At today market price, a 2007 BMW R1200 RT is valued at up to £4,000. This is in 2018. The donation was a number of years ago, back in around 2013. Even by today's valuation, this was WAY WAY undervalued, and I allege this was fraudulent!

Doing a rough calculation, that is, working on the basis of a BMW 1200RT of today's value 5 years newer the PN07 ECJ (i.e. a 2012 BMW), this would estimate the bike to be over £7,000. As you can see, a motorcycle with a market value was 'valued' by Lancashire police at over £5,000 less so it could be 'disposed of'.

It is pretty clear the OPCC has tried to avoid the question about a public asset, valued at approx £6,000 was DE-VALUED by Lancashire police and then given away to a charity run by ex-lancashire police. I remind you the charity chairman MR PB is an ex-Lancashire police officer AND an Magistrate.

A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/u...

Yours faithfully,

Paul Ponting

Police and Crime Commissioner, Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner

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Ian Dickinson, Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Ponting,
Please see the attached acknowledgement for your attention.
Yours sincerely,
Jane Pearson

This message has been hidden. Correspondence not directly connected with the pursuit of the Freedom of Information request which is the subject of this correspondence thread. Please contact us if you have any questions. If you are the requester, then you may sign in to view the message.

Dear Clive Grunshaw,

As you are the PCC and have an overview of all financial transactions, I am asking for a copy of the bill of sale, correctly dated for the £1,500 payment from the North West Blood Bikes. This should reflect in the financial records of both Lancashire constabulary AND North west Blood Bikes.

Yours sincerely,

Paul Ponting

Ian Dickinson, Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner

Dear Mr Ponting
The Office of the Police and Crime Commissioner will continue to respond to legitimate Freedom of Information requests through this website .
However, in your correspondence you appear to be raising a number of conduct issues, to which, it would be inappropriate for the OPCC to respond to in a public forum.
Therefore, should you wish to raise any conduct issues I should be grateful if you could contact me directly at the Commissioner's Office.
Kind regards
Ian Dickinson
Governance and Policing Lead

Dear Ian Dickinson,

Under FOI rules, there are a number of unanswered questions.

As you are the PCC and have an overview of all financial transactions, I am asking for a copy of the bill of sale, correctly dated for the £1,500 payment from the North West Blood Bikes. This should reflect in the financial records of both Lancashire constabulary AND North west Blood Bikes.

In response the the misconduct allegations, I would see it as a matter of public interest that it be answered in public, that being said, I will contact you by private email.

Paul

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