Use of Electronic Cigarettes

Dave rimmer made this Freedom of Information request to Wirral Metropolitan Borough Council

This request has been closed to new correspondence. Contact us if you think it should be reopened.

The request was partially successful.

Dear Wirral Metropolitan Borough Council,

There are national and indeed international discussions ongoing into the use of electronic cigarettes. I understand your M/s Fish is unhappy concerning their use. could you please provide the following.
1.Any documentation recording discussions WBC have undertaken regarding the use of e.cigarettes
2.The councils current stance with regad to the use of e.cigarettes
3.Any documentation recording evidence either for or against their use
4.Any documentation and evidence M/s Fish has produced to support her anti stance.

Yours faithfully,

Dave rimmer

InfoMgr, FinDMT, Wirral Metropolitan Borough Council

Good Afternoon

 

Thank you for your recent request made under the Freedom of Information
Act. Please fine Wirral Borough Council’s responses alongside your
questions below.

 

I hope this information is of interest to you.

 

Kind regards,

 

Sent on behalf of

 

Tracy O'Hare

Information Management

Transformation and Resources

Wirral Council

 

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InfoMgr, FinDMT, Wirral Metropolitan Borough Council

1 Attachment

Good Afternoon

 

Apologies, the attachment was accidentally omitted from my previous email.

 

Kind regards,

 

Sent on behalf of

 

Tracy O'Hare

Information Management

Transformation and Resources

Wirral Council

 

This information supplied to you is copyrighted and continues to be
protected by the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. You are free to
use it for your own purposes, including any non commercial research you
are doing and for the purposes of news reporting. Any other reuse, for
example commercial publication, would require our specific permission, may
involve licensing and the application of a charge.

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Good Morning

 

Please see the proposed response to this FOI request below. The response
has been signed off by Clare Fish and Julie Webster.

 

The deadline to respond is Wednesday 16^th April.

 

Thanks,

 

 

Good Morning

 

Thank you for your recent request made under the Freedom of Information
Act. Please fine Wirral Borough Council’s responses alongside your
questions below.

 

I hope this information is of interest to you.

 

Kind regards,

 

Sent on behalf of

 

Tracy O'Hare

Information Management

Transformation and Resources

Wirral Council

 

This information supplied to you is copyrighted and continues to be
protected by the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. You are free to
use it for your own purposes, including any non commercial research you
are doing and for the purposes of news reporting. Any other reuse, for
example commercial publication, would require our specific permission, may
involve licensing and the application of a charge.

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Paul Cardin left an annotation ()

The data controller doesn't seem to have addressed points 1 thru 4 in your request Dave, just sent a lot of what looks like a generic, ill-advised defence of the vested interests who comprise the current money-making aspects of er, "giving up smoking."

Dear InfoMgr, FinDMT,
Thank you for your reply and I understand that no particular policy has been agreed over the use of e.cigarettes. However the powers that be seem to take great store in the Smokefree policy which technically has no bearing whatsoever over e.cigarettes.Tobacco cigarettes produce "smoke" which contains numerous dangerous chemicals and gases whilst e.cigarettes produce vapour, vaguely similar to steam from a boiling kettle so to include such devices in the same breath as "Smoking" shows technical ignorance on how these devices work. The vapourised fluids used are either glycerine or propylene glycol. I do not have to explain what glycerine is but perhaps council is unaware of other uses of PG. The main use is that it is a carrier liquid for food flavourings.Additionally another popular use is the fluid used in "smoke machines". In fact I attended a concert at the Floral some months ago where the whole auditorium was filled with such "smoke". The point being is I hear no one from WBC wanting to control Disco smoke machines which in fact produce exactly the same vapour as e.cigarettes. The reason for my FOI was that I believe the general public and indeed the council are unaware of how these devices work. Before council make any policy over their use the committee should be aware of this information bearing in mind that the councils own Floral Theatre produce exactly the same "smoke" and introduce it to patrons. I am aware that this is probably not the best way of getting information to council but I am aware that a number of councillors use this site and hope that they will get this technical information ahead of any decisions they have to make in the future.

Yours sincerely,

Dave rimmer

J.A.F. Mitchell left an annotation ()

"The Council is currently revising its Smokefree policy. Under our new policy we will be looking to prohibit the use of e-cigarettes in any council building or premise"

However they link to an ASH Briefing which states "ASH supports regulation to ensure the safety and reliability of e-cigarettes but, in the absence of harm to bystanders, does not consider it appropriate to include e-cigarettes under smokefree regulations"

Why do they think they know better than ASH?

Dave rimmer left an annotation ()

If Wirral Councils policy will include the ban of e.cigarettes in council premises I will campaign to have disco type machines banned in council establishments. As I state in my previous post The Floral uses these machines to create "an atmosphere" in the auditorium and the vapour produced is exactly the same as is produced in e.cigarettes so the lack of knowledge combined with their hypocracy is what is driving them to ridiculous bans. As for knowing better than ASH, of course they do (sarcasm)
I wouldnt mid betting not one of them could name the fluids used in the vapourisation process and indeed what other uses the fluids are put to

Andrew Craine left an annotation ()

I don't think smoke machines have nicotine in their vapour/liquid, mind you, it is very much disputed as to how much or if any significant amount of nicotine exists in e-cigarette vapour as well.

Dave rimmer left an annotation ()

Fair point Andrew but I believe it is accepted that it is not the nicotine in cigarette smoke that is dangerous content. For your info and anyone else who is interested most of the PG or VG fluids contain between one and two percent. I bet 99.9% of people dont realise that they ingest quantities of the same fluid as used in the e.cigarettes on a regular basis. Most liqiud food flavourings are made from propylene glycol. To be honest when propylene glycol is brought up in my conversations extolling the benefits of e.cigarettes most people react with the retort "isnt it dangerous using vehicle anti-freeze.......hence the ignorance of the anti e.cigarette brigade

Andrew Craine left an annotation ()

I am very much for e-cigarettes and I don't understand why the government/europe are provaricating so much. E-cigarettes are to all intents and purposes safe and hugely safer than tobacco.

Nicotine is toxic beyond certain levels (as are many other household substances) and I see the need for controls, most bottles of e-liquid have the toxity signs and symobols and childproof caps as they should. As David has said, it is highly diluted in e-liquid.

When a bottle says it has "18mg of nicotine", this is 18mg per litre, not per bottle. A standard small bottle of "18mg nictine" e-liquid is 10ml and actually contains about 0.2mg of nicotine which is ten times smaller than the 2mg of nicotine that is poisoness to a child. So even if a child drank one of these bottles, whilst they might be slightly ill, it is not terminal. The amount tranferred to the body through an e-cigarette is considerably less.

The standard toxity figures for adults are widely known to be incorrect (far too low) otherwise many tobacco smokers would be dead of nicotine poisoning fairly quickly. I don't know how accurate the 2mg for children is.

Some animals are much less tolerant to nicotine, but in comparison, chocolate is poisoness to dogs, apple seeds are poisoness to rabbits etc etc.

Propylene Glycol has a slight danger in that if it is heated it can give off poisoness vapour, in an e-cigarette, the water content in e-liquid (it is not always mentioned it contains water) restricts the temperature to about 100 degrees, less than the danger temperature. Again, compared to tobacco, the levels from an e-cigarette are considerably less. A poorly designed e-cigarette could in theory generate more of these toxins - in practice it has not been found to be the case but perhaps shows the need for some sort of standards or controls.

Dave rimmer left an annotation ()

Andrew, as far as the hypocritical government are concerned its all about revenue. If the estimated 2 million users smoked 20 tobacco cigarettes per day the loss to HMG in duty and VAT is somewhere in the region of £4 billion, need I say more. But the short sighted idiots dont realise that 2 million people(and growing rapidly)off tobacco cigarettes is likely to ease financial burdens on the NHS, so ultimately they do not want the hard core smokers to give up.....cynical of me, well time will tell but all my family and friends GP`s seem to be extolling the virtues of the e.cigs and as far as I can tell (certainly my GP) considers I am now a non smoker