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Summary of Persons Under Trains on London Underground.

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Dear Transport for London,

Could you please provide a tabular summary of the number of "Person Under a Train" incidents from 20th March 2009 until now which have occurred on London Underground?

Please list incidents in chronological date order per Line, separated into fatal and non-fatal events. Please note, the locations involved are not required, just the data requested.

Yours faithfully,

Neil Hood

FOI, Transport for London

Dear Neil Hood

 

Our ref: FOI-1392-1920/GH

 

Thank you for your request received by Transport for London (TfL) on 9
August 2019 asking for a summary of Persons Under Trains on London
Underground.

 

Your request will be processed in accordance with the requirements of the
Freedom of Information Act and our information access policy.

 

A response will be sent to you by 9 September 2019. We publish a
substantial range of information on our website on subjects including
operational performance, contracts, expenditure, journey data, governance
and our financial performance. This includes data which is frequently
asked for in FOI requests or other public queries. Please check
[1]http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transpar... to see if this helps you.

 

We will publish anonymised versions of requests and responses on the
[2]www.tfl.gov.uk website. We will not publish your name and we will send
a copy of the response to you before it is published on our website.

 

In the meantime, if you would like to discuss this matter further, please
do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Graham Hurt

FOI Case Officer

FOI Case Management Team

General Counsel

Transport for London

 

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References

Visible links
1. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transpar...
2. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/
3. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/

FOI, Transport for London

1 Attachment

Dear Neil Hood

 

Our ref: FOI-1392-1920/GH

 

Thank you for your request received by Transport for London (TfL) on 9
August 2019 asking for a summary of Persons Under Trains (PUT) on London
Underground.

 

Your request has been considered under the requirements of the Freedom of
Information Act 2000 and our information access policy.

 

I can confirm that we do hold the information you require. However, to
provide the information you have requested would exceed the ‘appropriate
limit’ of £450 set by the Freedom of Information (Appropriate Limit and
Fees) Regulations 2004.

 

Under section 12 of the FOI Act, we are not obliged to comply with
requests if we estimate that the cost of determining whether we hold the
information, locating and retrieving it and extracting it from other
information would exceed the appropriate limit. In this instance, we
estimate that the time required to answer your request would exceed 18
hours which, at £25 per hour (the rate stipulated by the Regulations),
exceeds the ‘appropriate limit’.

 

You have requested "Person Under a Train" incidents on London Underground
for a ten year period. During this time period different systems have been
in use for recording service delays and incidents involving passengers. We
have identified in excess of 450 incidents which would need to be manually
reviewed in order to extract and collate those that indicate whether the
incident resulted in a fatality (our records only apply to the status
recorded at the scene). We conservatively estimate that it would take on
average 5 minutes to review the records held and compare the records on
each system in order to locate, extract and collate the information you
have requested. It would therefore take in excess of 35 hours to provide
you with the information requested and therefore exceed the cost limit.

 

To help bring the cost of responding to your requests within the £450
limit, you may wish to consider refining your requests to concentrate on
matters which are important to you. For example, we believe we would be
able to provide the information and detail requested for a shorter time
period, for example for a two year period. Alternatively we could provide
the number of PUT incidents without providing the detail of whether each
one resulted in a fatality or not.  

 

If you are not satisfied with this response please see the attached
information sheet for details of your right to appeal.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Graham Hurt

 

FOI Case Officer

FOI Case Management Team

General Counsel

Transport for London

 

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References

Visible links
1. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/

Dear Graham Hurt,

Thank you for your response and the explanation.

Taking your advice, that you could still “provide the number of PUT incidents without providing the detail of whether each one resulted in a fatality or not”, I would like to accept that offer and amend my FOI, (I’d included the fatal/non-fatal aspect as it kept in line with my 2009 question) which was answered back then.

However, you also stated that your “records only apply to the status recorded at the scene”, but for clarification, that was the only information I was looking for anyway. I was not seeking anything beyond that initial status recording at the time.

Consequently, if you are still not able to provide that within the FOI cost limits either, then please accept the following amended FOI request:

Please provide a tabular summary of the number of "Person Under a Train" incidents from 20th March 2009 until now which have occurred on London Underground and list the incidents in chronological date order per Line.

Yours sincerely,

Neil Hood.

FOI, Transport for London

Dear Mr Hood,

 

TfL Ref: FOI-1823-1920

 

Thank you for your request received by Transport for London (TfL) on 16^th
September 2019 asking for information about Persons Under Train incidents.

 

Your request will be processed in accordance with the requirements of the
Freedom of Information Act and our information access policy. 

 

A response will be sent to you by 14^th October 2019.

 

We will publish anonymised versions of requests and responses on the
[1]www.tfl.gov.uk website. We will not publish your name and we will send
a copy of the response to you before it is published on our website.

 

In the meantime, if you would like to discuss this matter further, please
do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

David Wells

FOI Case Officer

FOI Case Management Team

General Counsel

Transport for London

 

 

 

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FOI, Transport for London

2 Attachments

Dear Mr Hood,

 

TfL Ref: FOI-1823-1920

 

Thank you for your email of 16^th September 2019 asking for information
about Person Under Train incidents.

 

Your request has been considered in accordance with the requirements of
the Freedom of Information Act and our information access policy.

 

Specifically you asked:

 

“Please provide a tabular summary of the number of "Person Under a Train"
incidents from 20th March 2009 until now which have occurred on London
Underground and list the incidents in chronological date order per Line.”

 

The requested data is provided in the attached spreadsheet (you may need
to expand the width of the columns to see the data in full). This includes
all fatal and non-fatal incidents. The Tube supports nearly 5 million
customer journeys per day. In 2016/17 a total of 1.38 billion passenger
journeys were made and our transport network carried more passengers than
ever before. Our first priority is the safety of all our customers, staff
and others travelling or working on our network.

 

We provide training to our staff on how to identify and give the
appropriate support to any customers who appear to be in mental/emotional
distress or who are acting in a way which would identify them as high risk
of accessing the track. We have developed training material based on
industry best practice to give staff even more knowledge about the signs
to look out for and the confidence to intervene. We also work with Network
Rail and other train operating companies to share information and
approaches to managing incidents of prohibited track access on the
railway.

 

London Underground (LU) works closely with the British Transport Police
(BTP) and the emergency services to ensure a coordinated response to
incidents. LU has introduced a ‘blue light’ response for the Emergency
Response Unit with a police driver supplied by the British Transport
Police (BTP). We also have the Network Incident Response Team which
includes a BTP Police Medical Officer with a LU Network Incident Response
Manager. Additionally, there has been a notable improvement in medical
intervention in these cases which enables paramedic first aid to be given
on site and enhance the survival rate.

 

For our staff, we have an established Trauma Support Group (TSG), which is
a network of 140 volunteers who are front line operational staff trained
and supervised to provide support to staff members affected by an
incident.

 

Comprehensive help and support is also available for the friends and
family of anyone injured during, or affected by, a serious incident
involving TfL services, via The Sarah Hope Line (0343 222 5678).

 

If this is not the information you are looking for, or if you are unable
to access it for any reason, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Please see the attached information sheet for details of your right to
appeal as well as information on copyright and what to do if you would
like to re-use any of the information we have disclosed.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

David Wells

FOI Case Officer

FOI Case Management Team

General Counsel

Transport for London

 

 

 

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Dear David Wells,

On 9th August 2019 I wrote: “Please list [Person Under a Train" (PUT) incidents from 20th March 2009 until now] in chronological date order per Line, separated into fatal and non-fatal events. Please note, the locations involved are not required, just the data requested.”

(My question mirrored an almost identical question* I’d asked on 3rd March 2009, which TfL fully and promptly answered in 16 days, on 19th March 2019, using the tabular format I’d requested).

[*I replaced the request for ‘locations’ with ‘dates’ instead.]

On 6th September 2019 you confirmed you do hold that data but, as TfL has changed its systems used for recording ‘Person Under a Train’ incidents, it is no longer readily accessible. (Requiring “over 35 hours” manual effort to ascertain).

On 16th September 2019 I modified my question in line with your advice and wrote: “Please provide a tabular summary of the number of "Person Under a Train" incidents from 20th March 2009 until now which have occurred on London Underground and list the incidents in chronological date order per Line.”

On 1st October 2019 you supplied the data in response to my FOI but there are issues with it:

1..... DATES: ....initially I’d asked for data from 20.3.09 to 9.8.19, amended to 16.9.19 but the data supplied finishes on 22.3.19, with no explanation for the missing months.
2..... FORMAT: ....I’d asked for the response to be per line in a tabular format, and you did refer to “the attached spreadsheet” but there is none, (in neither the ‘Download’ link nor in the ‘View as HTML’… only one long list of the chronological data from all Lines intermingled with each other.
3..... ACCURACY: ....I only have limited knowledge of PUT incidents on LUL, but even with the little I know I can see a number of PUT incidents that should have been presented in the list supplied have been omitted, with no explanation why.

ITEM 3, therefore, is obviously the most disturbing failing within TfL’s response. I fully appreciate what you said and accept that TfL has changed its systems over the years (between 2009 – 2019), and that this now causes difficulties in producing this important data, whether due to recording or retrieving issues (e.g. by comparison there were no such problems in March 2009), but these changes should have not compromised TfL’s capacity to the extent that it can no longer efficiently provide a fully comprehensive and accurate response. Therefore, please review the data that’s been provided and redo it to ensure that all the chronological PUT data for all Lines gets included.

ITEM 2, is significant too (though not as much as item 3), as without the chronological data being presented in an easy-to-read tabular format per Line per annum, as requested, it is quite difficult to perceive when data is missing. If possible, please follow the example of the excel spreadsheet you used in your March 2009 response, as that would be great.

ITEM 1, is least important, it would be nice to have the entire time frame that was sought in my FOI request, either to the initial 9th August 2019 date or the later adjusted 16th September 2019 date (but if that’s not possible just now, I can leave it for a future request).

Please address the issues I’ve highlighted and I look forward to receiving your response, thank you for your time.

Yours faithfully,

Neil Hood.

FOI, Transport for London

Thank you for your request for an internal review which was received on 11 November 2019.

You have stated that you are dissatisfied with the handling of your request for information under the Freedom of Information Act.

The review will be conducted by an internal review panel in accordance with TfL’s Internal Review Procedure, which is available via the following URL:

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/internal-revie...

Every effort will be made to provide you with a response by 10 December 2019. However, if the review will not be completed by this date, we will contact you and notify you of the revised response date as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely

Lee Hill
Information Access Manager
FOI Case Management Team
General Counsel

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FOI, Transport for London

Thank you for your request for an internal review which was received on 12 November 2019.

You have stated that you are dissatisfied with the handling of your request for information under the Freedom of Information Act.

The review will be conducted by an internal review panel in accordance with TfL’s Internal Review Procedure, which is available via the following URL:

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/internal-revie...

Every effort will be made to provide you with a response by 11 December 2019. However, if the review will not be completed by this date, we will contact you and notify you of the revised response date as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely

Emma Flint
Principal Information Access Advisor
FOI Case Management Team
General Counsel

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Dear Lee Hill (of 12th November) and Emma Flint (of 13th November),

Thank you for your duplicate replies, but in response to both I feel I ought to point out that I have not asked for an “internal review”, instead I queried the information provided because of the missing data plus it is not in the format requested (indeed, TfL’s response refers to an attached spreadsheet but there is none) so it just seems that something has gone wrong with TfL’s initial response that I thought could be sorted without escalation.

That said, (this is for my own clarification), if someone raises a query about a reply as I have done, is the standard procedure to escalate it straight to an internal review regardless?

I’m asking because, as I have pointed out, I did not request an internal review.

Yours sincerely,

Neil Hood.

FOI, Transport for London

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Hood,

 

IRV-084-1920

 

I am contacting you regarding the internal review of your request for
information concerning person under train statistics. The review has been
carried out by a panel who were not involved in preparing the original
response. For the avoidance of doubt, TfL aim to consider any expression
of dissatisfaction with the handling of a request under its internal
review processes. This would not extend to general queries arising from
the response but primarily where concerns have been raised about
compliance.

 

In your email of 11 November you raised three issues to be addressed in
relation to the response you were issued with. The panel has gone on to
consider each of these in turn, labelled in a manner consistent with those
in your email for ease of reference.

 

Dates

 

You have stated that your request asked for data up to 16 September 2019
but you were provided with information only up to 22 March 2019. The panel
have reviewed this matter and agree that you were provided with
insufficient information. The review found that information was provided
up to the latest full calendar year in order to allow for comparable
figures to be considered and analysed. However the timeframe of your
request was clearly stated and therefore the panel considers that you
should indeed have been provided with information up to the date of your
request. With that in mind, as part of this review we have re-collated the
information and you may find this in the attached document. Please be
aware that this information covers incidents up to 9 November 2019 to
incorporate any additional incidents that may have occurred in the time
that has elapsed since your initial request. I am sorry that you were not
provided with the full dataset requested in your initial response.

 

Format

 

You stated that your request asked for the information to be provided in a
tabular format and this was not provided to you. Whilst requesters are
free to specify a preference for the format in which they would like the
information to be provided, a public authority may not comply if it
determines that it is not reasonably practicable to do so. In this
instance the information was not held or recorded in the tabular format
requested and so would have effectively required TfL to ‘create’ the
information requested. It was considered that the information provided in
list form contained all of the information necessary for it to be compiled
in any way that was required by yourself or any other interested party.
Therefore a decision was taken that it would not constitute a reasonable
use of limited and specialist resources to ‘re-create’ information into a
format that was not held at the time of your request.

 

Whilst the panel sympathises with this, in light of the previous failing
to provide you with the requested information up to the timeframe
specified, we have gone on to provide the information both in the tabular
and list format as a gesture of goodwill which you will also find within
the attached document.

 

Accuracy

 

You have stated that you are aware of incidents that have not been
recorded within the information provided to you and therefore question the
accuracy of the data. I can confirm that the information provided
represents the information recorded by TfL at the time of your request.
For the avoidance of doubt, no incidents at all have been omitted (or
considered exempt) from the recorded information that was generated from
the reports made to identify and collate these incidents. The information
provided is taken directly from the reporting tool used by TfL to record
incidents of this nature.

 

There could be several reasons why you may not be able to identify
incidents you consider should be included These could include incidents
being coded differently when being reported or the line provided is the
one of the train involved but other reports might refer to the line of the
owning station, for example a Central line train could be involved in an
incident at Oxford Circus, but Oxford Circus is a Bakerloo line owned
station. There have also been several system changes and alterations to
the recording and classification of these incidents which may mean that
some incidents from previous reports may no longer feature as a result,
depending on the specific circumstances.

 

As stated, the panel is content that the information provided is the
recorded information TfL holds and so is satisfied that the response you
were provided with is compliant in that regard. However we would further
suggest that you raise this matter within TfL if you have additional
concerns about this. As you are aware, the Information Tribunal ruled that
disclosure of person under train incidents against specific stations were
exempt from disclosure in accordance with section 38 of the FOI Act and so
we are unable to discuss individual incidents via this medium, but if
there are specific incidents you are aware of this can be investigated. If
you are unaware of where you can raise this matter further, please email
me directly at the email address listed at the following link:
[1]https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparenc... foi
(AT) tfl.gov.uk and I will be able to pass your email on to the relevant
areas outside of the FOI process.

 

If you are dissatisfied with the internal review actions to date you can
refer the matter to the independent authority responsible for enforcing
the Freedom of Information Act, at the following address:

 

Information Commissioner’s Office

Wycliffe House

Water Lane

Wilmslow

Cheshire SK9 5AF

 

A complaint form is available on the ICO’s website ([2]www.ico.org.uk).

 

Yours sincerely

 

Lee Hill

Information Access Manager

 

 

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References

Visible links
1. https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparenc...
2. http://www.ico.org.uk/
3. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/

We don't know whether the most recent response to this request contains information or not – if you are Neil Hood please sign in and let everyone know.