Dear Transport for London,

Further to my request last year which can be found on the Internet at http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/to..., I am becoming aware of other unusual or unexpected results when a card is touched out and back in again at the same station.

It appears that this is happening at stations which are themselves part of OSIs and gives the impression that there is a same station OSI. I have witnessed this myself at Lewisham NR and have heard reports of it happening at Stratford and Tower Hill. In the last case the Oyster helpdesk has apparently confirmed to a user that there is a 15 minute OSI between exit and reentry at Tower Hill.

I would be grateful to receive details of all stations where this behaviour exists on a permanent basis and what the time allowed before a new journey will be started is. I am aware that there are situations called EOSIs where a group of stations get a temporary default global OSI including reentry at times of disruption.

Finally, I would also like a revised list of all current OSIs including the time allowed between each station. I believe that the longstanding OSIs relating to the closure of Blackfriars LU should now have been removed.

Yours faithfully,

Mike Whitaker

FOI, Transport for London

Dear Mr Whitaker

 

TfL Ref: FOI-1705-1112

 

Thank you for your email received by Transport for London (TfL) on 21
February 2012 asking for information about Out of Station Interchanges.

 

Your request will be processed in accordance with the requirements of the
Freedom of Information Act and TfL’s information access policy. 

 

A response will be provided to you by 21 March.

 

In the meantime, if you would like to discuss this matter further, please
do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Lee Hill

FOI Case Officer

 

FOI Case Management Team

General Counsel

Transport for London

 

 

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Dear Mr Hill,

Further to my request last week I have now become aware of another station where exit and re-entry within a short time has caused a problem. This time the problem resulted in a user being threatened with prosecution by FCC. They had made a journey from Mitcham Eastfileds to Marylebone changing at Elephant and Castle. On the way back the FCC inspector saw the Oyster card as invalid (out of the system).

Thankfully FCC have now dropped the prosecution after seeing a printout of the card history showing the correct touches had been made. Understandably the user in question is very keen to know what caused his card to appear out between Elephant and Castle and Streatham where he was taken off the train and questioned at length. I believe that the fact that he only spent a few minutes at Marylebone before starting the return journey is a key factor. I've given him a link to this FOI request at What do they know.

I would be very grateful if there is any way of speeding up a response to this request.

Yours faithfully,

Mike Whitaker

FOI, Transport for London

3 Attachments

 

 

Dear Mr Whitaker

 

TfL Ref: FOI-1705-1112

 

Thank you for your email received by Transport for London (TfL) on 21
February 2012 asking for information about Out of Station Interchanges
(OSI’s).

 

Your request has been considered in accordance with the requirements of
the Freedom of Information Act and TfL’s information access policy. I can
confirm TfL does hold the information you require. You asked for:

  

Details of all stations where this behaviour exists on a permanent basis
and what the time allowed before a new journey will be started is. I am
aware that there are situations called EOSIs where a group of stations get
a temporary default global OSI including re-entry at times of disruption.

    

Finally, I would also like a revised list of all current OSIs including
the time allowed between each station. I believe that the longstanding
OSIs relating to the closure of Blackfriars LU should now have been
removed.

 

The current list of OSIs, with times, is attached. The temporary OSIs
linked to the closure of Blackfriars remain in operation for the time
being.

 

The outcomes described at Lewisham National Rail, Tower Hill and Stratford
can only be caused by the setting of EOSI either by staff at the station
concerned or by the Oyster Control Centre. There is no same station OSI
arrangement at those stations so, unless EOSI (about which you have
previously been advised) is set, an exit followed by any re-entry at those
stations will lead to a new journey being started.

 

Same Station OSIs are either shown explicitly in the attached tabulation
(e.g. between Victoria National Rail Southern and Victoria National Rail
Southeastern) or else shown as “SameNLC OSI” in the tabulation.

 

Same NLC OSIs operate between particular devices within the same station,
as follows:

 

Bank LU:                   Between any two of the three (Northern, Central
and W&C) gatelines

Waterloo LU:            Between W&C validators and Northern/Bakerloo
gateline

Wembley Central:    Between Southern and London Overground platforms

Paddington:             Between validators on ungated NR platforms and
joint NR/LU gatelines

Liverpool St NR:       Between platforms 1-10 and platforms 11-18

Farringdon:              Between new Integrated ticket hall and
traditional entrances

Oxford Circus:          Between the gate arrays leading to the internal
walkway at Argyll Street exit and the main entrance gatelines.

 

Please also be advised that TfL’s response to your earlier FOI request
concerning Continuation Exits has been incorrectly altered on the
following website [1]http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/continuati...
As advised by TfL previously, Finsbury Park LU station is a Continuation
Exit station, and the comment saying otherwise is incorrect.

 

In relation to your further email to us (attached), this appears to be a
general issue relating to a particular customer’s Oyster usage rather than
a further FOI request. If the customer is able to provide the number of
the card in question we’d be happy to check what validations and charges
took place, although this is something that would need to be done by the
Oyster Helpdesk, who can be contacted through the TfL website at:
[2]Oyster online - Transport for London - Buy or top up your Oyster card

 

If this is not the information you are looking for, or if you are unable
to access it for some reason, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Please see the attached information sheet for details of your right to
appeal as well as information on copyright and what to do if you would
like to re-use any of the information we have disclosed.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Lee Hill

FOI Case Officer

 

FOI Case Management Team

General Counsel

Transport for London

 

 

 

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Dear Mr Hill,

Thank you for the response to my FOI request.

I am concerned that random applications of EOSIs appear to be having side effects where people do not spend very long at their destination before returning. This is especially worrying where the end result is the person being issued with a penalty fare or reported for prosecution. Clearly there is a need to refine the training given to RPIs both on TfL services and other NR operators who participate in the Oyster scheme. Sooner or later the current situation may end up with a high profile court case which could undermine the confidence in the whole Oyster system.

I am aware that this is not really something to be discussed via the FOI mechanism, but I would be grateful if you would pass my comments to relevant departments within TfL.

I would also like to thank you for spotting the error in interpreting the changes made at Finsbury Park NR and the fact that this hasn't changed the continuation exit setting at the LU station. The web page you mentioned has been updated. I would like to make a further comment about continuation exit and would be grateful if you would also pass this onto relevant departments within TfL.

The use of continuation exit at stations which have platform validators within gatelines is a necessary evil to avoid gates stopping someone exiting because they have inadvertantly touched out within the station. However, the feature causes problems where interchange is being made and the journey continues. I am aware of a case where a passenger began a journey in West London on FGW; touched the validators at Ealing Broadway before joining a Central Line train; then was issued with a penalty fare by a PSA on the DLR from Bank because his card was out of the system. The passenger explained that the correct deduction was always made on touch out at the end of his journey but this didn't set off the required alarm bells in the PSAs mind.

Furthermore, I cannot see the point in setting continuation exit at stations where there are no gates. As well as the aforementioned Finsbury Park LU station, another in this scenario is Elmers End. As I understand it, at these stations it is impossible to start a return journey until the maximum journey time for the outward journey has elapsed. This may mean a period of more than an hour has to pass and I can think of many journeys that I personally make where I do not spend anywhere near that time at my destination.

I will be seeking further clarification from the helpdesk following personal issues with my own cards, especially the problems experienced by my 16 year old son after touch out and in again at Blackfriars NR left him at the mercy of Southeastern RPIs later on the same day.

Yours sincerely,

Mike Whitaker

FOI, Transport for London

Dear Mr Whitaker,
 
Thank you for your further email.
 
I’m just responding to confirm that I will pass on the concerns you raise
below to the relevant department for their consideration today.
 
If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact
me.
 
Kind regards
 
Lee Hill
FOI Case Officer
 
FOI Case Management Team
General Counsel
Transport for London
 
 
 
 
 

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