Safetry Camera Partnership not displaying signs.
Dear West Mercia Police,
It has come to me and my associates attention that Safer Camera Partnership are not displaying signage.
1] What law stipulates that SCP do not have to display signage of who they work for on their vans ?
2] What law allows SCP vans to not display signs in advance to advice motorists of speed camera in operation ?
3] What law/regulation says it's okay for a SCP van to park on the verge ?
4] Can you show me lawful regulations that stipulates where SCP can park vans for revenue collection ?
5] What training have the operatives of these speed camera devices had and at what intervals is the training undertaken ?
6] How regularly are the speed cameras calibrated ?
Kind regards,
peter danby and associates
Dear Mr Danby
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST REFERENCE NO: 8986
I write in connection with your request for information dated and received
on 25th October 2017.
Your request will now be considered in accordance with the Freedom of
Information Act 2000 (the Act). You will receive a response within the
statutory timescale of 20 working days as defined by the Act, subject to
the information not being exempt or containing a reference to a third
party. In some circumstances West Mercia Police may be unable to achieve
this deadline. If this is likely you will be informed and given a revised
time-scale at the earliest opportunity.
There may be a fee payable for the retrieval, collation and provision of
the information you request. If this is the case you will be informed and
the 20 working day timescale will be suspended until we receive payment
from you. If you chose not to make payment then your request will remain
unanswered.
Some requests may also require either full or partial transference to
another public authority in order to answer your query in the fullest
possible way. Again, you will be informed if this is the case.
Should you have any further enquiries concerning this matter, please write
or telephone the Information Compliance Unit quoting the reference number
above.
Yours sincerely
Miss L MacKinnon
Information Compliance Assistant
Information Compliance Unit
Hindlip
Warwickshire Police & West Mercia Police
View our new Warwickshire Police and West Mercia Police websites at:
[1]www.warwickshire.police.uk and [2]www.westmercia.police.uk
[3]Join the Special Constabulary and Make the Difference Make the
difference
For more information about becoming a Special Constable,
please visit,
Warwickshire Police: [4]www.warwickshire.police.uk/specialconstables
West Mercia Police: [5]www.westmercia.police.uk/specialconstables
References
Visible links
1. http://www.warwickshire.police.uk/
http://www.warwickshire.police.uk/
2. http://www.westmercia.police.uk/
http://www.westmercia.police.uk/
4. file:///tmp/www.warwickshire.police.uk/specialconstables
5. file:///tmp/www.westmercia.police.uk/specialconstables
Dear Mr Danby,
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST REFERENCE NO: 8986
I write in connection with your request for information which was received
on 25^th October 2017. Please find below the response to your request:
1] What law stipulates that SCP do not have to display signage of who they
work for on their vans?
2] What law allows SCP vans to not display signs in advance to advice
motorists of speed camera in operation?
REPLY: No specific recorded information held.
Please refer to the response provided on 30th January 2017 to your similar
questions submitted under FOI reference 8012. There is no law requiring
signs.
3] What law/regulation says it's okay for a SCP van to park on the verge?
REPLY: No specific recorded information held
There is no law. Parking on the verge is not an offence
4] Can you show me lawful regulations that stipulates where SCP can park
vans for revenue collection?
REPLY: No specific recorded information held
There are no regulations. Also, SCP do not revenue collect they catch
people breaking the law.
5] What training have the operatives of these speed camera devices had and
at what intervals is the training undertaken?
REPLY: They are trained on appointment and regularly monitored by SCP and
the courts.
They have a programme of training over a period of two to three weeks
depending on their previous experience (some are ex police officers who
have used laser equipment previously others aren’t).
They are trained in the use of the enforcement equipment, including
judging speeds, driving and dynamic risk assessing of sites.
6] How regularly are the speed cameras calibrated?
REPLY: Every time they are switched on they self-calibrate. There is also
a check that is carried out by the manufacturer or their agent (often
called calibration) and SCP have this done annually (this is not required
by HOTA).
Every effort has been made to ensure that the information provided by our
SCP is as accurate as possible
Your attention is drawn to the below which details your right of
complaint.
Should you have any further enquiries concerning this matter, please write
or telephone the Information Compliance Unit quoting the reference number
above.
Yours sincerely
Mrs R Williams
Information Compliance Unit
Warwickshire Police & West Mercia Police
PO Box 55
Hindlip
Worcester
WR3 8SP
01905 331545 / 331565
West Mercia Police in complying with their statutory duty under sections 1
and 11 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to release the enclosed
information will not breach the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.
However, the rights of the copyright owner of the enclosed information
will continue to be protected by law. Applications for the copyright
owner’s written permission to reproduce any part of the attached
information should be addressed to The Force Solicitor, West Mercia Police
Headquarters, PO Box 55, Hindlip, Worcester, WR3 8SP.
COMPLAINT RIGHTS
Are you unhappy with how your request has been handled or do you think the
decision is incorrect?
You have the right to require West Mercia Police (WMP) to review their
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Prior to lodging a formal complaint you are welcome and encouraged to
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If you are dissatisfied with the handling procedures or the decision of
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within 20 working days of the date of its response to your Freedom of
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West Mercia Police Headquarters
Information Compliance Unit
Hindlip Hall
Hindlip
PO Box 55
Worcester
WR3 8SP
or
Email: [West Mercia Police request email]
In all possible circumstances, WMP will aim to respond to your complaint
within 20 working days.
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After lodging a complaint with WMP if you are still dissatisfied with the
decision you may make application to the Information Commissioner for a
decision on whether the request for information has been dealt with in
accordance with the requirements of the Act.
For information on how to make application to the Information Commissioner
please visit their website at [1]https://ico.org.uk/ Alternatively, phone
or write to:
Information Commissioner’s Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF
Phone: 0303 123 1113 (local rate) or 01625 545745 if you prefer to use a
national rate number
Fax: 01625 524 510
View our new Warwickshire Police and West Mercia Police websites at:
[2]www.warwickshire.police.uk and [3]www.westmercia.police.uk
[4]Join the Special Constabulary and Make the Difference Make the
difference
For more information about becoming a Special Constable,
please visit,
Warwickshire Police: [5]www.warwickshire.police.uk/specialconstables
West Mercia Police: [6]www.westmercia.police.uk/specialconstables
References
Visible links
1. https://ico.org.uk/
2. http://www.warwickshire.police.uk/
http://www.warwickshire.police.uk/
3. http://www.westmercia.police.uk/
http://www.westmercia.police.uk/
5. file:///tmp/www.warwickshire.police.uk/specialconstables
6. file:///tmp/www.westmercia.police.uk/specialconstables
Dear Mrs R Williams,
So it's okay for Safer Camera Partnership to entrap men/women travelling for speeding without signage being displayed, is this lawful? Am not talking about legislation by the way"!
Can you show me lawful regulations that stipulates where SCP can park vans for revenue collection? So in other words men/women travelling can also park anywhere" as there is no law saying otherwise ?
5] What training have the operatives of these speed camera devices had and
at what intervals is the training undertaken?
REPLY: They are trained on appointment and regularly monitored by SCP and
the courts.
They have a programme of training over a period of two to three weeks
depending on their previous experience (some are ex police officers who
have used laser equipment previously others aren’t).
They are trained in the use of the enforcement equipment, including
judging speeds, driving and dynamic risk assessing of sites.
So people operating the speed cameras do not have to be police constables ? Can you show me a official document to clarify this please ?
6] How regularly are the speed cameras calibrated? I would like to see a official document clarifying this, not just your word Mrs R Williams.
Me and my associates do not believe you that speed cameras are not revenue collectors, as police constabularies are well known for targeting motorist all the time" rather than lets say paedophiles".
Law and legislation are two different things, lawful is common law, legislation is acts of parliament. Legislation requires requires consent.
Kind regards,
peter danby & associates
Dear Mr Danby
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST REFERENCE NO: 8986. Internal Review Request
I write in connection with your request for an internal review received on
10th November 2017. Please find below the response to your enquiries:
So it's okay for Safer Camera Partnership to entrap men/women travelling
for speeding without signage being displayed, is this lawful? Am not
talking about legislation by the way"!
Can you show me lawful regulations that stipulates where SCP can park vans
for revenue collection? So in other words men/women travelling can also
park anywhere" as there is no law saying otherwise ?
Me and my associates do not believe you that speed cameras are not revenue
collectors, as police constabularies are well known for targeting motorist
all the time" rather than lets say paedophiles".
Law and legislation are two different things, lawful is common law,
legislation is acts of parliament. Legislation requires requires consent.
REPLY: Please be advised that we are unable to assist with these parts of
your enquiry. Please be advised that these questions do not fulfil Section
8 of the Act. They are not a request for specific recorded information and
the Act only extends to requests for recorded information. It does not
require public authorities to answer questions generally, or give an
opinion or judgement that is not already recorded.
So people operating the speed cameras do not have to be police constables
? Can you show me a official document to clarify this please?
REPLY: Please be advised that this question was not submitted with your
original enquiry on 25th October 2017, and is therefore deemed as a new
request. However, in order to assist, Section 89(2) of the Road Traffic
Regulation Act 1984 states that a person is not liable to conviction for
speeding solely on the evidence of one witness to the effect that in his
or her opinion the driver was exceeding the speed limit. Corroboration is
needed either from another witness or a device.
[1]https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/198...
Section 89 and its predecessors have always referred to “witness” not
“officer” and the courts have confirmed that civilians are not precluded
from giving evidence of what they saw, heard and believed provided their
evidence is corroborated as above. The corroboration is the competent use
of a HOTA (Home Office Type Approval) device whose accuracy is assumed
provided the conditions of HOTA are also met.
6] How regularly are the speed cameras calibrated? I would like to see a
official document clarifying this, not just your word Mrs R Williams.
REPLY: Please be advised that camera calibration certificates are
available to view on the West Mercia Safer Roads Partnership website by
following the links for `Camera Info` - `Camera Calibration Certificates`:
[2]http://www.srpwestmercia.org.uk/
[3]http://www.thinksaferroads.org.uk/camera...
E.g
[4]http://www.thinksaferroads.org.uk/wp-con...
I hope that this is of assistance
Yours sincerely
Mrs R Williams
Information Compliance Unit
Warwickshire Police & West Mercia Police
Complaint Rights
The Information Commissioner
If you are dissatisfied with the decision you may make application to the
Information Commissioner for a decision on whether the request for
information has been dealt with in accordance with the requirements of the
Act.
For information on how to make application to the Information Commissioner
please visit their website at [5]https://ico.org.uk/ Alternatively, phone
or write to:
Information Commissioner's Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF
Tel: 0303 123 1113 (local rate) or 01625 545 745 if you prefer to use a
national rate number
Fax: 01625 524 510
View our new Warwickshire Police and West Mercia Police websites at:
[6]www.warwickshire.police.uk and [7]www.westmercia.police.uk
[8]Join the Special Constabulary and Make the Difference Make the
difference
For more information about becoming a Special Constable,
please visit,
Warwickshire Police: [9]www.warwickshire.police.uk/specialconstables
West Mercia Police: [10]www.westmercia.police.uk/specialconstables
References
Visible links
1. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/198...
2. http://www.srpwestmercia.org.uk/
3. http://www.thinksaferroads.org.uk/camera...
4. http://www.thinksaferroads.org.uk/wp-con...
5. https://ico.org.uk/
6. http://www.warwickshire.police.uk/
http://www.warwickshire.police.uk/
7. http://www.westmercia.police.uk/
http://www.westmercia.police.uk/
9. file:///tmp/www.warwickshire.police.uk/specialconstables
10. file:///tmp/www.westmercia.police.uk/specialconstables
Dear Mrs R Williams,
You mentioned that speed cameras are self calibrating at the onset of this FOI request, but having looked at the links you sent, that is not the case at all. They are either checked by the manufacturer or a agent, but at what intervals ?
6] How regularly are the speed cameras calibrated?
REPLY: Every time they are switched on they self-calibrate. There is also
a check that is carried out by the manufacturer or their agent (often
called calibration) and SCP have this done annually (this is not required
by HOTA).
I do not trust your response Mrs R Williams and as such request a internal review".
Kind regards,
peter danby & associates
Dear Information Compliance West Mercia,
FOI release
Speedmeter Type Approval - speed cameras.
From:Home Office Published:21 May 2007
We have a received a request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 for the following: “Could you please confirm the accuracy of speed enforcement…
Documents
Details
We have a received a request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 for the following:
“Could you please confirm the accuracy of speed enforcement cameras which are Home Office Approved. I have checked the relevant Home Office, ACPO and Police websites but cannot find any documentation which states that speed cameras which are approved by the Home Office are 100% accurate.
I have received advice that speedometers are inaccurate. Car Manufacturers do not guarantee that their speedometers are accurate. In fact, in many cases Speedos have a wide margin of error in recording actual miles travelled per hour.
I have also been advised that Safety Cameras have a recognized margin of error in recording the actual miles per hour travelled by vehicles being monitored by speed cameras. I am interested in finding out the accuracy of Truvello Combi Speed Cameras. I note they have a red filter fitted for night time use.
Having checked the Police Procedure Manual I note that Speed Cameras have to be calibrated annually and that the Police Force should maintain calibration records and service records.
I would therefore appreciate a copy of the document which confirms that Home Office Approved Safety Cameras are 100% accurate, or alternatively, what the margin of accuracy for these cameras is.
I have checked your Freedom of Information Publication List and the exemptions applied in respect of technical data for speed cameras. This request does not impinge on the exemptions because accuracy of equipment is not a trade secret. Indeed, such information must be provided to Courts if the accuracy of any particular camera is questioned.
Manufacturers of motor vehicles do not hide the specifications of the vehicles they manufacture. It is acknowledge that speedometers are not accurate. It is not a Statutory requirement of the MOT test for speedometers to be checked at the time an MOT is carried out. In view of this fact it would be most appreciated if you could provide a copy of the document showing the margins of Safety Cameras accuracy.
I would like to ascertain how accurate Home Office Approved Safety Cameras are and why they need to be calibrated every year and regularly serviced if they are deemed by the Police to be 100% accurate at all times.
It is strange to note that Manufacturers of Speed Cameras allegedly supply cameras which are 100% accurate, when those cameras are in use 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, whilst Manufacturers of speedometers do not guarantee the accuracy of their speedometers when those Speedometers are only in use when the vehicle is being driven.”
We released the following information on 21 May 2007.
Document information
Published:
21 May 2007
From:
Home Office
kind regards,
peter danby and associates
Dear Mr Danby
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST REFERENCE NO: 8986. Internal Review
Request. Additional Enquiry
As advised, in our response of 16/11/17, the links provided were for
annual camera calibration certificates that are available to view on the
West Mercia Safer Roads Partnership website.
The manufacturers copyrighted guidance advises that the camera/s perform
internal self calibration, and should you require further information
regarding the self-calibration facility of the cameras please contact the
manufacturer/s directly.
An internal review provides the opportunity to have the decision made when
processing a FOI request to be reviewed. In this instance, the information
held was provided in response to this request - the request was answered,
your additional enquiries have been answered, and therefore there is
nothing further to review.
If you are dissatisfied with the handling procedures or the decision of
WMP made under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the Act) regarding
access to information, you can lodge a complaint with the Information
Commissioner.
You may make application to the Information Commissioner for a decision on
whether the request for information has been dealt with in accordance with
the requirements of the Act.
For information on how to make application to the Information Commissioner
please visit their website at [1]https://ico.org.uk/ Alternatively, phone
or write to:
Information Commissioner's Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF
Tel: 0303 123 1113 (local rate) or 01625 545 745 if you prefer to use a
national rate number
Fax: 01625 524 510
Please be advised that no further correspondence will be entered into
regarding this matter.
Yours sincerely
Mrs R Williams
Information Compliance Unit
Warwickshire Police & West Mercia Police
________________
From: Peter Danby [[FOI #440874 email]]
Sent: 16 November 2017 20:53
To: Information Compliance West Mercia
Subject: Internal review of Freedom of Information request - Safetry
Camera Partnership not displaying signs.
Dear Mrs R Williams,
You mentioned that speed cameras are self calibrating at the onset of this
FOI request, but having looked at the links you sent, that is not the case
at all. They are either checked by the manufacturer or a agent, but at
what intervals ?
6] How regularly are the speed cameras calibrated?
REPLY: Every time they are switched on they self-calibrate. There is also
a check that is carried out by the manufacturer or their agent (often
called calibration) and SCP have this done annually (this is not required
by HOTA).
I do not trust your response Mrs R Williams and as such request a
internal review".
Kind regards,
peter danby & associates
View our new Warwickshire Police and West Mercia Police websites at:
[2]www.warwickshire.police.uk and [3]www.westmercia.police.uk
[4]Join the Special Constabulary and Make the Difference Make the
difference
For more information about becoming a Special Constable,
please visit,
Warwickshire Police: [5]www.warwickshire.police.uk/specialconstables
West Mercia Police: [6]www.westmercia.police.uk/specialconstables
References
Visible links
1. https://ico.org.uk/
2. http://www.warwickshire.police.uk/
http://www.warwickshire.police.uk/
3. http://www.westmercia.police.uk/
http://www.westmercia.police.uk/
5. file:///tmp/www.warwickshire.police.uk/specialconstables
6. file:///tmp/www.westmercia.police.uk/specialconstables
Dear Mrs R Williams,
I would like the contact details of the camera manufacturers please as i do not trust your reply.
Some of my information was from a Home Office web page, now you are going against the Home Office information regarding calibration of speed cameras. Are you above the law ?
kind regards,
peter danby and associates
Dear Mr Danby
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST REFERENCE NO: 8986. Internal Review Request. Further Additional Enquiry
Please be advised that this question was not submitted with your original enquiry on 25th October 2017, and is therefore deemed as a new request which is subject to the statutory timescale of 20 working days for response. However, in order to assist, I have not logged this as a new request as the new information is exempt from disclosure.
The exemption applicable to the information is:
Sec 21. Information Reasonably Accessible by Other Means. This is an Absolute, class based exemption.
The information that you require is already available in the public domain. The contact details for the manufacturers are shown on the calibration certificates that are available on the West Mercia Safer Roads Partnership website, that we have already provided the links for. And those contact details that are not shown on the calibration certificates are available by doing a basic search of the internet using the company name e.g..
http://www.jenoptik.co.uk/contact-us
Yours sincerely
Mrs R Williams
Information Compliance Unit
Warwickshire Police & West Mercia Police
Dear Mrs R Williams,
The speed cameras are calibrated once a year, the operator should carry out a test before leaving the station on a measured distance and then carry out TT test at site before commencing enforcement.
Kind regards,
peter danby & associates
Dear Mrs R Williams,
Having spoken to a colleague who is well researched into speed cameras and has told me that cameras are not self calibrating, far from it"! This colleague has also been quite successful in court cases and i know who i would rather trust and that's not your information Mrs R Williams !
Regards,
peter danby and associates
Dear Information Compliance West Mercia,
Just to let you know, the camera manufacturers would not speak to me". Guess i was correct the safety cameras are not 100% accurate....!
Kind regards,
peter danby and associates
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