Purpose of LPA?

Charlotte Peters Rock made this Freedom of Information request to Office of the Public Guardian

This request has been closed to new correspondence from the public body. Contact us if you think it ought be re-opened.

The request was partially successful.

Charlotte Peters Rock

Dear Office of the Public Guardian,

1. Given that it costs those who need protection - and those who protect - a large amount of time and money to set up and then Register the Lasting Power of Attorney can you please tell me its purpose?

It seems on trying to use it that the health section is totally ignored by Health Professionals.

That is the easy bit however.

The Finance Power of Attorney, fully Registered, is constantly refused by banks and building societies, leaving the Attorney unable to move funds to gain the most advantageous interest (rubbish as that interest currently is). It prevents the moving of funds from one bank or building society to another, because banks and building societies just will not accept its legality.. or rather, they say they do, and then totally ignore its import in their gadarene rush towards disclosure of affairs which are nothing to do with the situation.

Other questions are,

2. Why can't the office of the Public Guardian back up its legal responsibility by informing banks and building societies that a fully Registered LPA is supposed to mean that dealings with them are simplified (by their acceptance that the Registered Attorney of an LPA which has no restriction put on what can be done, should be treated as if they were the person for whom they are acting) not have their lives complicated out of existence?

3. Where are the online rules to which banks and building societies have to adhere in the case of a fully Registered Lasting Power of Attorney?

4. In the case that the Office of the Public Guardian agrees that Banks and Building Societies should be able to request many, many more documents when presented with an LPA, can we sue you for fraud, since this LPA - in practical effect, is not at all what it was claimed to be?

It was certainly my understanding when we took such care to ensure that the LPA was properly filled in, that it would simplify matters, so that it did not impinge on the care which the person needs, but helped to smoothe the path.

I do not object to proving who I am. My (otherwise unused) Passport is permanently in my bag for such occasions. But I am now asked to supply Inland Revenue documents, Passports and driving licences (for the person for whom I act, who is mentally and physically frail)and household bills (for a house that person longer has) 'to prove the person is still alive'.

Of course such documents do no such thing. But its a nice little wheeze on the part of Banks and Building Societies, isn't it?

Makes us keep money in our failing financial institutions, so when they go bust, we lose it all for the person we are supposed to be able to protect.

I want the full bank, building society and financial institution rules put on line please, so that no-one else is duped - either by the Office of the Public Guardian or by the banks and building societies.

Yours faithfully,

Charlotte Peters Rock

OPG FOI Enquiries,

1 Attachment

Ms Charlotte Peters Rock,

Thank you for your recent Freedom of Information request. Please find attached our acknowledgement.

Regards

Lauren Elliott
Customer Intelligence Team

0121 631 6581

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OPG Complaints,

1 Attachment

Dear Ms Peters Rock
 
Please find attached a copy of our response to your recent enquiry.
 
Victoria Walters
OPG
Customer Strategy Team
 
 
“I am not authorised to bind the Ministry of Justice contractually, nor to
make representations or other statements which may bind the Ministry of
Justice in any way via electronic means”.
 
 
 

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Charlotte Peters Rock

Dear OPG Complaints,

Thank you for your reply of 09 February 2012.

However, there are several points which I would be grateful to have clarified.

I wonder why, knowing that so much fraud was committed under the auspices of the previous legislation, no adequate attempt was made - long before now - to ensure that all financial and health institutions were fully aware of the effect of an LPA?

1. Can you please tell me the result of the dealing mentioned at '3' of your letter. Is there any rule in place - advisory to the legislation - about essential staff training, so that the Attorney is not met by a brick wall when trying to sort out the financial or health affairs of someone they care for?

2. Why did the friendly and informative 'help department' of Office of the Public Guardian 'cease trading'?

3. Where can we currently go to find out the full details of the effect of the Registration of a Lasting Power of Attorney?

4. Do all financial Institutions have copies of the legally expected effect of the Mental Capacity Act?

5. If not, why not?

It still seems to me that the old, ill and infirm are being sold a very expensive 'pig in a poke' if the Registered Lasting Power of Attorney is not readily accepted when presented for use by the Attorney.

6. Can you please tell me what sanctions exist to ensure that the law is complied with, in respect of the Mental Capacity Act 2005? For instance where the LPA is totally ignored by financial or health institutions, and obstacles are placed in the way of dealings by the Attorney.

I would be grateful for your further help.

Yours sincerely,

Charlotte Peters Rock

OPG Complaints,

1 Attachment

Dear Ms Peters Rock

Please find attached a response to your e-mail of 13 February 2012.

Victoria Walters
OPG
Customer Strategy Team

"I am not authorised to bind the Ministry of Justice contractually, nor to make representations or other statements which may bind the Ministry of Justice in any way via electronic means".

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Charlotte Peters Rock

Dear Office of the Public Guardian,

Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.

I am writing to request an internal review of Office of the Public Guardian's handling of my FOI request 'Purpose of LPA?'.

My second response from you office stated:

"we have no powers to compel banks to comply"

The question is, why do you not have the powers to compel banks to comply?

What is the possible purpose of a fully Registered Lasting Power of Attorney (meant, perhaps I can remind you, to protect the person who set it up) if there is no legal compulsion by its instigator/regulator/Public Guardian, at the Office of the Public Guardian, to ensure that its terms can be complied with by the Attorney?

What is the possible purpose of an LPA, except for the profit motive - if no-one takes any notice of it?

I now want a full internal review, to find out why such feeble excuses for refusal to act are given, by your office.

There is a large smell of 'fraud against the most vulnerable', which is enshrined in taking their money, for a set of documents which are of no legal use.

I would also like full consideration given to the return of the money paid, since it is better in the pocket of the donor of the Power of Attorney, rather than in some 'government cash collecter'(OPG) which lets that person down once they have lost capacity.

Any private company that acted in so cavalier manner, would be taken to court.

I look forward to hearing from you, some sensible resolution of this terrible problem, which deliberately denies any legal right to those who knowing they would not in future be able to defend their own affairs, have been foolish enough to trust in a system which as a matter of course, does not back up their legal right to appoint an Attorney.

A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/pu...

Yours faithfully,

Charlotte Peters Rock

OPG FOI Enquiries,

Thank you for contacting the Office of the Public Guardian. This is an automated response to confirm we have received your message to our Freedom of Information Enquiries inbox. We endeavour to respond to all e-mails as soon as possible.

More information regarding Freedom of Information and Data Protection is available on our website: www.direct.gov.uk under Government, Citizens, and Rights.

Please be aware the Office of the Public Guardian is not able to provide legal advice.

Thank you

OPG Freedom of Information Enquiries

This e-mail (and any attachment) is intended only for the attention of
the addressee(s). Its unauthorised use, disclosure, storage or copying
is not permitted. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all
copies and inform the sender by return e-mail.

Internet e-mail is not a secure medium. Any reply to this message
could be intercepted and read by someone else. Please bear that in
mind when deciding whether to send material in response to this message
by e-mail.

This e-mail (whether you are the sender or the recipient) may be
monitored, recorded and retained by the Ministry of Justice. E-mail
monitoring / blocking software may be used, and e-mail content may be
read at any time. You have a responsibility to ensure laws are not
broken when composing or forwarding e-mails and their contents.

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Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes

Charlotte Peters Rock left an annotation ()

One might hope that there would be someone within the Office fo the Public Guardian, who could back up Attorneys, when Banks, Health or other institutions deliberately flout any Registered LPA, by refusing to deal with the Attorney until a swathe of documents, which are really nothing to do with the Bank, Health or other body,are produced, to satisfay that body's spurious claims. Enough 'hoops' have already been jumped through, in order to set up the LPAs.

If there is no law currently in place to safeguard us from rapacious institutions when dealing for someone who can no longer deal with their own affairs, then the entire amounts of money paid into the Office of The Public Guardian since the LPA Legislation came into effect, should be returned to those people who were officially duped into paying it.

OPG FOI Enquiries,

1 Attachment

Dear Ms Peters Rock

Please see attached a response to your recent enquiry.

Victoria Walters
OPG

"I am not authorised to bind the Ministry of Justice contractually, nor to make representations or other statements which may bind the Ministry of Justice in any way via electronic means".

show quoted sections

Mr D Smith left an annotation ()

Dear Ms Peters Rock
A timely warning. You may wish to follow my request to HMRC at https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/u...
We were slightly more fortunate than you in that mum in law still had paperwork relating to the house she had just sold (or rather that my wife as attorney had sold). The basic problem seems to be that OPG has no powers of enforcement.

David Woolley left an annotation ()

A lot of your questions seem to be rhetorical, or asking for reasons to be given. A lot of them seem to be about decisions made by central government or the financial service industry and therefore not things that the Public Guardians Office would have on its records.

FoI is intended for gathering information held, not for making a case. That information might be used to subsequently form a case to be used in some other forum.

Of the original questions, question 1 seems to be for central government, but as formulated probably only covers information already published in the Regulatory Impact Assessment for the legislation.

Question 2 seems to be asking for information to be created that doesn't already exist.

Question 3 appears to be a question for the financial service industry, except to the extent that it is already included in legislation, in which case it is already public information. The PGO could point you to the latter, but not on the basis of the FoIA.

Question 4 seems to require a judgement to be made, which is again asking for new information to be created. In any case, it is central government, not the PGO that introduced LPAs. (You could have asked how many people have successfully sued them on that basis, but you might not like the answer.)

Valid FoI requests might be about the number of complaints received by the PGO and details of consultations (if any) with financial services institutions.

It looks to me as though the PGO has attemtped to provide as much help as they can rather than simply rejecting the requests as being invalid under FoI.

The issues underlying your questions seem to be about the legislation not going far enough, rather than LPAs not being necessary. The FoI approach is probably to ask central government about the complaint level, Then use the information to petition MPs to change the law.

Unfortunately, most of the information you really need is probably only held in the private sector, so probably not accessible to FoI.

Because health is mainly public sector, in the UK, you may have more luck getting information on the extent to which LPAs are ignored. However, I suspect that no specific records are kept, so you might only be able to obtain health authority and hospital guideline documents on how to handle LPAs.

Sylvia Rushbrooke left an annotation ()

Dear Charlotte
LPA?? Granted but not enforced by anyone
COP is the only avenue open too expensive too timely too confusing for lay person and totally inefficient and cumbersome takes 6 months to understand what to do and the court will not help re process as that is regarded as giving advice that they are not allowed to do
Every way you turn is blocked by those who choose to ignore the MCA and LPA rights with impunity - you will get pushed into the long grass holding emails told to complain told to go the the Ombudsman all taking your time from the matter at hand that needs sorting

Complaints to relevant bodies who ignore the MCA and LPA rights also ignore the Act and other Acts no one interested to actually address the problem at hand -
Fundamentals of the MCA the LPA must be spoken to as if they are the doner - does not happen we are bypassed at every turn with the doner left with no representation they chose and to the exclusion of them subjugated to the whims and power of others over them

The House of Lords select committee report re the MCA confirms the Act is mostly ignored the government response value every voice does not speak of implementation 10 years on re the service users rights and LPA rights glossed over
There is a new forum to deal with this but who is the service users representative no one it seems many LA have no best interest policy no best practice policy no MCA policy - and MCA leads refuse to discuss the MCA with service users each LA got millions from the DH to implement the MCA Act and other Acts mostly still ignored
Rarely will we be asked as LPA the views wishes feelings beliefs and values of the doner mostly bypassed by the authorities that have the power to subjugate the service users rights and LPA rights
It happens every day this includes NHS CCG LA GP CSU financial institutes etc etc therapists in fact most professionals who are supposed to proactively uphold the service users rights most making decisions alone by passing LPA family and service user inclusion any attempts to uphold their rights met with defensive attacking responses forcing us into the complaints process and then branding us serial complainers and never actually addressing the issues
If you would like to contact me directly look up Gypsy Swing in London

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