PRECISELY who owns my land and property?

I am the agent for the fictional strawman that was created with the name Sarah Goldsmith made this Freedom of Information request to Land Registry

The request was successful.

From: I am the agent for the fictional strawman that was created with the name Sarah Goldsmith

18 February 2010

Dear Land Registry,

I have taken a long and careful look at your official website
located at http://www.landregistry.gov.uk and you state "Voluntary
registration is a choice you can make today to give you greater
certainty and security about what you own."

It also states "There is no better way to safeguard ownership of
land and property than by registering your title with us."

Your site also states "Registration gives you greater certainty and
security about what you own" but I'm afraid it does not do that at
all. That is a misleading statement as nowhere does it say "There
is no better way to safeguard YOUR ownership of YOUR land and
property......" etc.

At the time of purchase of my property in 2001, my Solicitor
registered my property with the Land Registry.

Therefore, please would you inform me, under the Right of FOI the
following two (2) questions:

1) Are The Land Registry, the UK Government, some other
'corporation' or me, Sarah, an individual sovereign being of sound
mind and with a living soul, the SOLE AND ONLY OWNER of the
property on your register?

2) If by coercion, my property has been registered with yourselves
so I am now NOT the SOLE AND ONLY OWNER of my property despite you
stating "Voluntary registration is a choice", please tell me what
recourse I may LAWFULLY take to remedy this immediately as
Voluntary Registration LAWFULLY implies that I may LAWFULLY apply
for Voluntary UN-Registration or it has become an uninforcable
unilateral contract.

Thank you.

Yours faithfully,

I am the agent for the fictional strawman that was created with the
name Sarah Goldsmith

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I am the agent for the fictional strawman that was created with the name Sarah Goldsmith left an annotation (18 February 2010)

Quote-marks By 'property' above, please read 'Land AND property'

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Fred Ormerod left an annotation (22 February 2010)

Quote-marks "...an individual sovereign being of sound
mind..."

That's debatable...

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From: Flowers, Ian
Land Registry

22 February 2010

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank your for your communication.

Regarding your first question, I can confirm that Land Registry registers titles to estates in land. Those with title to a legal estate (the 'owners'), have a right to be registered as its proprietor.

I regret that I cannot make any further comment without information identifying the property involved.

Turning to your second question, I regret that I do not fully understand the information you require.

I can confirm that Schedule 4 to the Land Registration Act 2002 makes provision for alteration of the register of title to correct a mistake, bring the register up to date, giving effect to an estate etc. excepted from the effect of registration, or remove a superfluous entry. Otherwise there is no procedure in the 2002 Act for deregistering the title to a freehold or leasehold estate in land following its registration, whether that registration was voluntary or compulsory. Section 119 of the 2002 Act allows for the removal of the title to a registered manor from the register of title, but not for the removal of a registered estate in land.

I hope this information addresses the points you have raised.

Yours faithfully
Land Registry, Head Office

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From: I am the agent for the fictional strawman that was created with the name Sarah Goldsmith

24 February 2010

Dear Flowers, Ian,

Thank you for your reply dated 22 February 2010.

I would like you to clarify some points for me please as my
original question can not be answered by altering the 'language' in
it. I have no interest in corporate legislation therefore I have no
interest in being bestowed the fictional title of 'proprietor' of
my own land/property.

a) who is the LAWFUL OWNER of any property once it is on your
register? (You do not need information identifying the property
involved for this to be answered)

b) how can the LAWFUL OWNER register with the land registry and
still remain the LAWFUL OWNER?

c) please would you show me the relevant piece of 'legisltion' that
proves is is a LAWFUL REQUIREMENT to register land and/or property
with yourselves?

d) as the 'land registration act' has omitted the ability for
deregistering of land and property, I would once again ask HOW
would anyone DEREGISTER their own property that has been UNLAWFULLY
registered? (You do not need information identifying the property
involved for this to be answered)

Yours sincerely, and without ill will, vexation or frivolity,

Sarah: Goldsmith

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From: Flowers, Ian
Land Registry

26 February 2010

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your communication.

Dealing with each of your points in turn:

a) There is nothing that I can usefully add to my previous response

b) I regret that I do not understand your question.

c) Sections 4-8, Land Registration Act 2002 relates to the requirement of registration and the duty to apply for registration of title.

We do not have authority to release extracts of legislation to customers, but this can be viewed at the Office of Public Sector Information's website - please find a link below:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2002/ukp...

d) There is nothing that I can usefully add to my previous response.

I hope this information is of some use to you.

Yours faithfully
Ian Flowers
Customer Service
Land Registry, Head Office
Direct Line 020 7166 4285
GTN 7 3504 4285

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From: I am the agent for the fictional strawman that was created with the name Sarah Goldsmith

26 February 2010

Dear Land Registry,

Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of
Information reviews.

I am writing to request an internal review of Land Registry's
handling of my FOI request 'PRECISELY who owns my land and
property?'.

It is abundantly clear that the FOI agent is either totally
ignorant or being deliberately vexatious. The FOI agent REFUSES to
distinguish between legal and LAWFUL and will therefore NOT answer
ANY of my quetions, nor point me to the person who will...

A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is
available on the Internet at this address:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/pr...

Yours without ill will, vexation or frivolity,

Sarah: Goldsmith

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From: Sondh, Gurmale
Land Registry

2 March 2010

Dear
Sir/Madam,
Date : 2 March 2010

Thank you for your e-mail dated 26 February 2010 requesting an internal
Review of Land Registry's handling of your Freedom of Information request
- PRECISELY who owns my land and property?

Your request will be referred to one of the Lawyers in our Corporate Legal
Services Group for a reply.

If you have any queries about this letter, please contact me. Please
remember to quote the reference number in any future communications.

Yours faithfully

Freedom of information officer
Land Registry
Head Office
32 Lincoln's Inn Fields
London
WC2A 3PH

Dear Land Registry,

Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of
Information reviews.

I am writing to request an internal review of Land Registry's
handling of my FOI request 'PRECISELY who owns my land and
property?'.

It is abundantly clear that the FOI agent is either totally
ignorant or being deliberately vexatious. The FOI agent REFUSES to
distinguish between legal and LAWFUL and will therefore NOT answer
ANY of my quetions, nor point me to the person who will...

A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is
available on the Internet at this address:

[1]http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/pr...

Yours without ill will, vexation or frivolity,

Sarah: Goldsmith

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From: Petty, Roger
Land Registry

19 March 2010

Dear Sarah Goldsmith

I refer to your email dated 26 February 2010, requesting an internal
review of your FOI request.

The matter has been referred to me. I am one of the lawyers in Corporate
Legal Services. We oversee requests of information under the Freedom of
Information Act 2000.

First, I would like to state that there was no deliberate reason to avoid
answering your questions and if you consider this to be the case, then I
apologise.

The questions you raised are:

(1) Are the Land Registry, the UK Government, some other
`corporation' or me, Sarah, an individual sovereign being of sound mind
and with a living soul, the Sole and only owner of the property on your
register?

(2) If by coercion, my property has been registered with yourselves
so I am not the sole and only owner of my property despite you stating
`Voluntary registration is a choice', please tell me what recourse I may
lawfully take to remedy this immediately as voluntary registration
lawfully implies that I may Lawfully apply for voluntary Un-registration
or it has become an unenforceable unilateral contract.

Your request was referred to our Customer Service section as your
questions related to land registration, provisions of the Land
Registration Act 2002 and procedures under the Land Registration Rules
2003 and an explanation of registration of title and its effect. I
consider that Mr Flowers provided the information and dealt with your
questions.

In relation to Freedom of Information, under section 21 of the Freedom of
Information Act 2000 (FOIA), we are not required to provide information to
a request if the information requested is reasonably accessible to you
i.e. by another existing means without the need for a FOI request. The
information is exempt for Freedom of Information and is not covered by
FOIA.

In this case the information you have requested is so available and I
enclose a link to the following guides:-

(1) Public Guide 3 - General Land Registry information. Please see 4.4.
(2) Public Guide 8 - Registration of title to land its characteristics
and advantages. Please see 2
(3) Public Guide 13 - Applications for first registration made by an owner
in person. This explains that certain areas in England and Wales were
subject to compulsory registration and also briefly explains voluntary
registration.

(4) Public Guide 17 - How to safeguard against property fraud.
(5) Public Guide 22 -Keeping your name in the register up to date

These Public Guides can be downloaded from our website
www.landregistry.gov.uk (Forms & Publications/Public Guides) and provide
the information you seek.

I hope that this reply deals with the issues raised. If you are not
content with the outcome of the internal review, you have the right to
apply directly to the Information Commissioner (ICO) for a decision. The
Information Commissioner can be contacted at: The Information
Commissioner's Office, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire SK9
5AF.

Yours sincerely

Sushma Acharya
Corporate Legal Services

Land Registry's House Price Index is now live. www.landregistry.gov.uk

If you have received this e-mail and it was not intended for you, please
let us know, and then delete it. Please treat our communications in
confidence, as you would expect us to treat yours. Land Registry checks
all mail and attachments for known viruses, however, you are advised that
you open any attachments at your own risk.

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Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or
recorded for legal purposes.

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I am the agent for the fictional strawman that was created with the name Sarah Goldsmith left an annotation (19 March 2010)

Quote-marks Yet again, 'government' DELIBERATELY REFUSING to acknowledge LAW.... This is increasingly DISGRACEFUL!!!

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alan harvey flounders left an annotation (21 March 2010)

Quote-marks Dont give up, keep trying to obtain the answers you are seeking, It appears that I have a similar problem, Land Registry will not answer my Freedom of Information requests, you may need to rephrase your questions, keep asking for the answers. Good Luck

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James Ward left an annotation (14 January 2011)

Quote-marks Fred Ormerod left an annotation (22 February 2010)

"...an individual sovereign being of sound
mind..."

That's debatable...

Sounds like you don't know the world your living in Fred?
Keep it up Sarah. Don't listen to idiots like that. Hes probably a pig or a politician , or maybe a Banker(without moving your lips)
If you ever get any answers you might want to pursue your cut of the common wealth

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Graeme left an annotation (14 April 2011)

Quote-marks Thankyou, I am wanting to go through with the same thing. If I can get our land unregistered then my local council will not have any say as to how or what I build in it. also I am interested in the idea of being a province within a state in Western Australia. Any ideas anyone?
cheers Graeme

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Anthony left an annotation (19 November 2011)

Quote-marks Registration of 'title' to land was first enacted in 1862 in the Land Registry Act. Prior to registration you could only buy and sell land by proving ownership through a long line of 'deeds'. Often it was difficult to know who owned land and what subsidiary rights or obligations were attached to it. It was a true mess. Registration of title was to intended to replace this with a central list of title and all subsidiary interests. Registration of title has been bitterly opposed by lawyers since the 18th century. One might presume it was not in their interest to make things simple! In 1897 by the Land Transfer Act it was made compulsory (when the property was sold) in some areas - London County Council was one of the first to request it. Other cities soon followed. 1925 saw a huge tidy up in The Law of Property Act. In answer to your question; if you have a freehold, you hold a 'fee simple absolute' OF THE CROWN. You are a permanant and undconditional tenant with no obligations (such as the obligation to provided knights in time of war - which was abolished in 1600). The word fee is a derivative of 'fiefdom'. The Queen literally owns absolute title to your property but in practice, this absolute ownership represents society's rights to do things in the public interest - such as have your property on a register. Hope that helps.

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David Elphick left an annotation (13 September 2012)

Quote-marks Free man Dave.
I have thought about this alot lately and am sure you have thought this already!
I have a human right to put a roof over my head, tho I live the free man way so no bank would lend me money to buy a house! ( would I want too! NO )
I'm wondering what would happen if I bought land and drew up my own bill of sale with the previous land owner and had it signed at a solicitors with whitneses, what right what the council have to tell me I could'nt build my own dwelling!
If its not registered then they have no right to tell me what I can do on my own land, Surly it would be breaking my human rights to shelter.

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Becky Bbear left an annotation (13 September 2012)

Quote-marks Dave - If you feel comfortable doing so then there is nothing preventing you or anyone else drawing up their own Bill of Sale or Conveyance in relation to buying or selling land.

The only requirements are that the documents clearly describe the land, describe/define whether any interests are reserved (such as mineral rights, boundaries, rights of way, etc) and declare any associated covenants (such as prohibitions against certain actions or uses and any 'claw back' relating to future resale).

However, since property law is a complex field, it can be risky to go it alone - so having your sale/purchase documents at least reviewed by a solicitor is recommended, just to protect your interests.

None of this effects the other legislation relating to land/property however. It would for example still be a requirement to obtain planning consent to build on the land, pay tax on any residence or property built on the land and comply with building regulations in constructing structures on the land.

As others have already advised, once a piece of land is registered there is no way to 'de-register' it. The closest to this would be where title to several pieces of land are 'merged' into one larger title - which doesn't really de-register what were originally separate plots, it just creates a single larger plot.

The only way to achieve what you suggest would be to deliberately purchase an unregistered plot and not register your legal interest in it. The associated risk being that if unregistered, someone else could encroach or claim possession - possibly even seeking to register title in their name.

Actually, thinking about it further, you could in theory purchase registered land on a site subject to coastal erosion - which would legally cease to exist once it fell into the sea and therefore no longer be subject to registration, or any other planning/building/taxation rules or legislation.

Of course you wouldn't have the land anymore once it fell - but could still have some legal obligations related to health and safety or liability insurance.

Pretty much a lose/lose scenario, but technically possible.

Apart from that, you would be left with the option of buying an uninhabited island off the coast - where you wouldn't have any building/tax related legislation problems, other than environmental regulations or conservation issues associated with rare/protected flora/fauna. Just don't invite any Doctors called Moreau to take up residence.

I guess the bottom line is - as long as you choose to remain a citizen/resident of the UK you have to abide by it's laws, regardless of 'which' laws they are and how you may feel about them as an individual.

Becky

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