Photographing in a public area....

Waiting for an internal review by Department for Work and Pensions of their handling of this request.

It is my understanding that the law within the United Kingdom on photographing in a public area is very clear. That anybody can take photo's in a public area, and that nobody has the power to stop anyone taking photo's within public areas. ( The law: http://www.lcpu.org/docs/2011/ACPO%20Let... )
Jobcentre Plus public buildings have two public areas. I have noticed that many signs about the restriction of taking photo's are placed on the walls in the public areas. I have also witnessed private security guards enforcing the halting of taking images in these areas....sometimes using physical force . I understand that the reason for the restriction of anyones right to take photos is that personal information could be recorded in these public areas. This can not be so, as your own policy states that any personal information should be kept in private areas at the rear of the public buildings of the Jobcentre Plus. Can you please confirm that if I should ever be physically assaulted by a private security guard for taking images in the public areas of Jobcentre Plus building....I may defend myself using only the force necessary against those that assault me for carrying out my right? Can you also advise the private security firms within these areas about their lack of powers they have on this matter as I am fearful that if ever a serious injury is caused by them trying to stop someone carrying out a right in a public area......then the individual or individuals will be held accountable in a court of law.

DWP freedom-of-information-requests, Department for Work and Pensions

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Operations FOI Requests, Department for Work and Pensions

1 Attachment

 
Dear Mr Logan,
 
Please find attached the reply to your recent Freedom of Information
request reference number 2870:
 
 
Thank you,
 
DWP Freedom of Information Team
 
 
 
 

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Dear Operations FOI Requests,

The law is.....Anyone is entitled to record/photograph a government agent carrying out their duty in a public area.
1) Are you telling me that The Jobcentre Plus buildings have no public areas? It is my understanding that you have got this information incorrect. They are not private buildings. Like Libraries, where I am allowed to record in the public areas, they are owned/rented by the Taxpayer In my government's construction plans given out to the main contractor who refurbished the JobCenter Plus buildings across the UK, it states that 'Two Public Areas' must be created. All staff who work for the government are classed as 'Agents' and the law states agents can be recorded carrying out their duties in public areas. Please explain why you think you are above the law.

Yours sincerely,

John Logan

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John Slater left an annotation ()

Hi John,
I think you will find that most buildings used by the DWP/JCP are actually privately owned and just leased by the DWP. This link explains:

http://www.telerealtrillium.com/about-us...

Frank Zola left an annotation ()

"law states agents can be recorded carrying out their duties in public areas. Please explain why you think you are above the law"

What law?

Dear Operations FOI Requests,

Hi John Slater. I have already received a letter apologising for having me escorted out of one of the DWP buildings after I made a formal complaint about me videoing. They agreed with me when I said I had the right to record in the public areas of the DWP. I have mislaid the letter, that is why I am making this request as many of my friends, who are hard workers, who fall on hard times occasionally, have been treated like shit by the DWP and the private security firm that secure the buildings. I just want them to know that if it happens again, they can whip their cameras out and record the event.

Hello Frank Zola
This link explains about what the law is on videoing agents of the government. It is the same for them as it is the police force. It's a contract.....They can video us, as we can do the same to them. http://www.lcpu.org/docs/2011/ACPO%20Let...

Yours sincerely,

John Logan

Operations FOI Requests, Department for Work and Pensions

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Frank Zola left an annotation ()

An apology letter, does not by itself, suggest they accepted "videoing", noting that your request refers to "Photographing".

Can you share a copy of the documents you hold that say "'Two Public Areas'" for Jobcentres?

The ACPO letter make no references to any specific law(s), more about a 'lack of powers'.

The ACPO letter is guidance to Police not the DWP.

Jobcentres can offer to do interviews in a private room, upon request and can consider allowing overt use of recording devices. But Jobcentre staff, as individuals, can choose not to engage in any audio visual recording.

Please note when you press 'reply' you send the message to the DWP, as a form of correspondence that forms part of your FOI request.

For some years DWP has redesigned the buildings it rents as Jobcentres, so upon entrance there is a staffed reception area, which cannot usually be passed without an appointment.

ACPO guidance says "Unnecessarily restricting photography", implies some restrictions are neccessary.

33 Extension of definition of “public place” in Public Order Act 1936.

For the definition of “public place” in section 9(1) of the M1 Public Order Act 1936 there shall be substituted—

“Public place” includes any highway and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise ”.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1972...

Frank Zola left an annotation ()

'No Mobile Phone' signs displayed in Job Centre Plus Public Areas
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/n...

Recording dealings with job centre staff and security
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/r...

Clarification on policy and proceedure followed when a client excercises their right to record
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/c...

Recording interviews on DWP premises
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/r...

Record my job centre interview
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/r...

Can the Jobcentre record interviews without the claimant's permission?
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/c...

Claimants wanting recordings. DWP's distortion of fact.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/c...

Clarification of a clients right to record
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/c...

and many more

Dear Operations FOI Requests,

Thank you for so many links to information regarding my questions. I am now waiting for the DWP to answer my questions. Thank You.

Yours sincerely,

John Logan

Operations FOI Requests, Department for Work and Pensions

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Operations FOI Requests, Department for Work and Pensions

1 Attachment

Good afternoon Mr Logan

 

Please find attached our reply to your recent Freedom of Information
internal review request.

 

Thank you

 

DWP Freedom of Information Team

 

 

 

 

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Dear Operations FOI Requests,

What powers do the Private security firm G4S have inside the Job Centre Plus public areas.

Yours sincerely,

John Logan

Operations FOI Requests, Department for Work and Pensions

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DWP CAXTON HOUSE Commercial Directorate Correspondence, Department for Work and Pensions

1 Attachment

 
Dear Mr Logan,
 
 
DWP Caxton House Commercial Directorate Correspondence Team
 
 
 

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Dear DWP CAXTON HOUSE Commercial Directorate Correspondence,

Thank you for the information.
Can you please now send me the document, or act of parliament, or any other document that gives such powers quoted in the PDF you sent to a private security company in a 'Public Area'. Also...The licence or any document/agreement from my employe ( UK Government ) that gives a private security guard permission to view any CCTV taken in public area by governmental/police video cameras that I pay for.......
In the PDF you sent, no mention was made about the public being stopped from videoing in the public areas of the DWP buildings. It is my understanding that the law states anybody is entitled to video in a public area as nobody has the power to stop them. Can you please confirm this....or please send me the authorisation document that says a private security company has more powers than the police.

I have every faith you can provide me with this information.

John Logan.

DWP CAXTON HOUSE Commercial Directorate Correspondence, Department for Work and Pensions

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Logan

 

Please find attached reply to your request of 26 Nov 2016. Apologies for
the delay.

 

Regards

 

DWP Caxton House Commercial Directorate Correspondence Team

 

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Dear Department for Work and Pensions,

Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.

I am writing to request an internal review of Department for Work and Pensions's handling of my FOI request 'Photographing in a public area....'.

[ GIVE DETAILS ABOUT YOUR COMPLAINT HERE ]

I have been told that DWAP buildings are private buildings. It is my understanding that they are in fact government buildings, paid for by the tax payer. They themselves refer to 'Public Areas' in the buildings and have public access. They have not shown me any Law that gives a private security guard power over the public in a public area.

A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/p...

Yours faithfully,

John Logan

DWP freedom-of-information-requests, Department for Work and Pensions

This is an automated confirmation that your request for information has
been accepted by the DWP FoI mailbox.
 
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John Slater left an annotation ()

John,

You might find the following information about DWP Properties of interest:
http://www.telerealtrillium.com/about-us...

As you can see the DWP transferred ownership and management of its property to Telereal Trillium for a period of 20 years. This means that JCP premises are private property.

Regards
John

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