Pembrokeshire Council - Land Ownership

Pat James (Account suspended) made this Freedom of Information request to Pembrokeshire Council

This request has been closed to new correspondence from the public body. Contact us if you think it ought be re-opened.

Response to this request is long overdue. By law, under all circumstances, Pembrokeshire Council should have responded by now (details). You can complain by requesting an internal review.

Pat James (Account suspended)

Dear Pembrokeshire Council, in pursuance of a civil litigation for failure to pay a parking charge or fine imposed by your council, please identify the party litigant by name (man or woman) who is the land owner (of public property) claiming tort against the defendant as defined in CPR.

This is not a request for legal advice, it is a request for fact of law

I also remind you of your duties and obligations to the Nolan Principles.

Yours faithfully,

Pat James

Freedom Of Information, Pembrokeshire Council

If you have received this email in error, please notify us by telephone on 01437 764551 and delete it from your computer immediately. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn yr e-bost hwn trwy gamgymeriad, byddwch cystal â rhoi gwybod inni trwy ffonio 01437 764551. Wedyn dylech ddileu’r e-bost ar unwaith oddi ar eich cyfrifiadur.

Dear Pat James,

Thank you for your email. We are unclear as to exactly what information you are requesting, could you please clarify this please.

Kind regards,

The FOI Team
Pembrokeshire County Council
County Hall
Haverfordwest
SA61 1TP

Tel: 01437 775380
Email: [Pembrokeshire Council request email]

show quoted sections

Pat James (Account suspended)

Dear Freedom Of Information, please be precise about what you need to be clarified in mt succinct request.

Yours sincerely,

Pat James

Freedom Of Information, Pembrokeshire Council

Dear Pat James,

Thank you for your email.

We require clarification on:

1. what parking charge are you referring to
2. what does the party litigant refer to
3. what land are you referring to
4. who is the defendant being referred to

If the answer to any of the above questions constitutes personal information you may wish to contact us directly at [Pembrokeshire Council request email] to keep your information confidential.

Kind regards,

The FOI Team
Pembrokeshire County Council
County Hall
Haverfordwest
SA61 1TP

Tel: 01437 775380
Email: [Pembrokeshire Council request email]

Dear Freedom Of Information, please be precise about what you need to be clarified in mt succinct request.

Yours sincerely,

Pat James

show quoted sections

Pat James (Account suspended)

Dear Freedom Of Information, to clarify:

1. what parking charge are you referring to

No specific parking charge, any attempt to impose a penalty for an alleged tort under a civil proceeding
.
2. what does the party litigant refer to

A term in civil law referring to either the plaintiff (a man or woman) or defendant (a man or woman).

3. what land are you referring to

Any land held or managed by the council where the infringement is alleged to have taken place.

4. who is the defendant being referred to

The man or woman upon whom a claim of tort is being made

Yours sincerely,

Pat James

Freedom Of Information, Pembrokeshire Council

If you have received this email in error, please notify us by telephone on 01437 764551 and delete it from your computer immediately. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn yr e-bost hwn trwy gamgymeriad, byddwch cystal â rhoi gwybod inni trwy ffonio 01437 764551. Wedyn dylech ddileu’r e-bost ar unwaith oddi ar eich cyfrifiadur.

Dear Pat James,

Thank you for your email. We remain unclear as to the exact information you require.

It appears you are interested in seeking information about Parking Penalty Notices, ie, the number of tickets that Civil Parking Enforcement Officers issue, or are you interested in the number of Parking Penalty Notices that are appealed? Could you please clarify if this is the information you are seeking.

Could you also specify a date range for the required information, ie, the last financial year.

Kind regards,

The FOI Team
Pembrokeshire County Council
County Hall
Haverfordwest
SA61 1TP

Tel: 01437 775380
Email: [Pembrokeshire Council request email]

show quoted sections

Pat James (Account suspended)

Dear Freedom Of Information, I am interested in the identity of the man or woman who as landowner claims tort in these matters.

Yours sincerely,

Pat James

Freedom Of Information, Pembrokeshire Council

Dear Pat James,

Thank you for your email which I have shown to Highways and Legal, neither of which are clear as to what information you require.

The Council owns the land that Parking Notices are issued on. The Council cannot issue Parking Notices on private land.

Could you please set out as clearly as possible what information you require.

Kind regards,

The FOI Team
Pembrokeshire County Council
County Hall
Haverfordwest
SA61 1TP

Tel: 01437 775380
Email: [Pembrokeshire Council request email]

show quoted sections

Pat James (Account suspended)

Dear Freedom Of Information, to correct your statement : "The Council owns the land that Parking Notices are issued on." The council does not own anything, all assets controlled by the council are held in trust for the people. Hence the purpose of the original request.

Yours sincerely,

Pat James

Freedom Of Information, Pembrokeshire Council

If you have received this email in error, please notify us by telephone on 01437 764551 and delete it from your computer immediately. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn yr e-bost hwn trwy gamgymeriad, byddwch cystal â rhoi gwybod inni trwy ffonio 01437 764551. Wedyn dylech ddileu’r e-bost ar unwaith oddi ar eich cyfrifiadur.

Dear Pat James,

Apologies if we are being obtuse, but despite the assistance you have given us we are still unclear as to what information you require.

Could you please explain in simple terms exactly what information you are seeking. If you are unable to provide a clear request we will be unable to assist you.

Kind regards,

The FOI Team
Pembrokeshire County Council
County Hall
Haverfordwest
SA61 1TP

Tel: 01437 775380
Email: [Pembrokeshire Council request email]

show quoted sections

Pat James (Account suspended)

Dear Freedom Of Information, to further clarify:

A civil action under Common Law is a Man (living body) v Man (living body)

A Tort is a wrong done to/against a man (living body)

A Council is in your case a Corporation, which in law is defined as a dead entity, i.e. not a living body.

Therefore it is absurd to suggest that a dead entity (council or corporation) can bring an action of tort against a man.

If there is an actionable tort, in the circumstances of a parking infringement, it can only be brought by the land owner (a living man)

It is for this reason I seek the identity of the land owner (living man) who would have suffered a werong, enabling him to bring an action of tort.

It is established in law that public property is not owned by a council, merely held in trust for the public who are the land owner.

Finally, if my request concerned a specific portion of land, a specific infringements under specific circumstance, I would request such information under discovery procedures, and not be a freedom of information request.

Yours sincerely,

Pat James

Freedom Of Information, Pembrokeshire Council

Dear Pat James,

Thank you for your email which has clarified your request. The only other piece of information we need to know in order to be able to log your request is which car park or on which street the parking infringement took place, as there are some areas in the County which are owned by the Pembrokeshire Coast National Park Authority, where the Council enforces on its behalf.

Kind regards,

The FOI Team
Pembrokeshire County Council
County Hall
Haverfordwest
SA61 1TP

Tel: 01437 775380
Email: [Pembrokeshire Council request email]

show quoted sections

Pat James (Account suspended)

Dear Freedom Of Information, please read my latest response which states that there are no specifics.

Yours sincerely,

Pat James

Freedom Of Information, Pembrokeshire Council

If you have received this email in error, please notify us by telephone on 01437 764551 and delete it from your computer immediately. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn yr e-bost hwn trwy gamgymeriad, byddwch cystal â rhoi gwybod inni trwy ffonio 01437 764551. Wedyn dylech ddileu’r e-bost ar unwaith oddi ar eich cyfrifiadur.

Dear Pat James,

Thank you for your email. We appreciate the response you provided on 25th January, however the information we hold covers a large area and we need a precise location to be able to check our records to see who currently owns the land in question, ensuring that we provide you with the correct information.

If we do not hold information about the owner of the land in question, we will be able to sign post you to a relevant organisation who may hold the information, such as The Land Registry for example, so even if we do not hold the information ourselves, we will be able to assist you. Without the location we are unable to search our records.

Kind regards,

The FOI Team
Pembrokeshire County Council
County Hall
Haverfordwest
SA61 1TP

Tel: 01437 775380
Email: [Pembrokeshire Council request email]

show quoted sections

Pat James (Account suspended)

Dear Freedom Of Information, I see your continued requests for clarification as deliberate obfuscation. You have been given more than adequate information to discharge your obligations in this matter.

Yours sincerely,

Pat James

Evans, Alison, Pembrokeshire Council

If you have received this email in error, please notify us by telephone on
01437 764551 and delete it from your computer immediately. Os ydych chi
wedi derbyn yr e-bost hwn trwy gamgymeriad, byddwch cystal â rhoi gwybod
inni trwy ffonio 01437 764551. Wedyn dylech ddileu’r e-bost ar unwaith
oddi ar eich cyfrifiadur.

 

Dear Mrs James,

 

I write to follow up your recent Freedom of Information query which Katy
Holman has been corresponding with you as regards:

 

‘in pursuance of a civil litigation for failure to pay a parking charge or
fine imposed by your council, please identify the party litigant by name
(man or woman) who is the land owner (of public property) claiming tort
against the defendant as defined in CPR.’

 

As we have not been able to ascertain the specifics around your request we
are unable to assist you with the information you require. I have however
provided links to the relevant Legislation and some additional information
in relation to Civil Parking Enforcement which I hope will assist you.
Specifically, this is our own information and guidance in relation to
Civil Parking Enforcement, a link to the Traffic Management Act 2004 and a
link to Welsh Government (2010) ‘Statutory Guidance to Local Authorities
on the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions’.

 

[1]http://www.pembrokeshire.gov.uk/content....

 

[2]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004...

 

[3]http://gov.wales/topics/transport/road-u...

 

I hope this is of assistance.

 

Kind regards,

 

Alison Evans

Information Governance and Complaints Manager

 

show quoted sections

Dim ond y sawl y mae'r ddogfen hon wedi'i chyfeirio atynt ddylai ei
darllen, a'i defnyddio ganddynt ar gyfer ei dibenion bwriadedig; ac ni
ddylid fel arall ei hatgynhyrchu, copio, lledaenu, datgelu, addasu,
dosbarthu, cyhoeddi na'i rhoi ar waith chwaith. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn
yr e-bost hwn trwy gamgymeriad, byddwch cystal a rhoi gwybod i ni ar
unwaith trwy ffonio 01437 764551 a'i ddileu oddi ar eich cyfrifiadur ar
unwaith. Ni ddylid rhoi'r cyfeiriad e-bost i unrhyw drydydd parti na'i
ddefnyddio ar gyfer unrhyw ddiben arall chwaith.

Gwefan Cyngor Sir Penfro -  [6]http://www.sir-benfro.gov.uk

Sylwer: Mae negeseuon e-bost sy’n cael eu hanfon a’u derbyn yn cael eu
monitro’n rheolaidd ar gyfer cydymffurfio â’n Diogelwch TG, a’n Polisi
E-bost/Rhyngrwyd.

Mae'r llofnod hwn hefyd yn cadarnhau bod y neges e-bost hon wedi cael ei
harchwilio am fodolaeth firysau cyfrifiadurol a chod maleisus.

Cyngor Sir Penfro
Rhif ffôn  01437 764551
E-bost [7][email address]

Rydym yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg a byddwn yn ymateb cyn
pen 15 diwrnod gwaith fan bellaf. Byddwn yn ymateb yn yr un iaith â’r
ohebiaeth a dderbyniwyd (oni bai eich bod yn gofyn i ni wneud yn wahanol).

Os am gopi mewn print mawr, fformat hawdd ei ddarllen, Braille, sain neu
mewn iaith arall, cysylltwch â’r person a anfonodd yr e-bost hwn.

***************************************************************************************************************

 

References

Visible links
1. http://www.pembrokeshire.gov.uk/content....
2. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004...
3. http://gov.wales/topics/transport/road-u...
4. http://www.pembrokeshire.gov.uk/
5. mailto:[email address]
6. http://www.sir-benfro.gov.uk/
7. mailto:[email address]

Pat James (Account suspended)

Dear Pembrokeshire Council,

Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.

I am writing to request an internal review of Pembrokeshire Council's handling of my FOI request 'Pembrokeshire Council - Land Ownership'.

Deliberate obfuscation following clarification.

A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/p...

Yours faithfully,

Pat James

Freedom Of Information, Pembrokeshire Council

If you have received this email in error, please notify us by telephone on 01437 764551 and delete it from your computer immediately. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn yr e-bost hwn trwy gamgymeriad, byddwch cystal â rhoi gwybod inni trwy ffonio 01437 764551. Wedyn dylech ddileu’r e-bost ar unwaith oddi ar eich cyfrifiadur.

Dear Pat James

We acknowledge your request for an Internal Review to be held regarding the recent response you received following your request for information.

We will arrange for the Review Panel to meet and will let you know the outcome as soon as possible. It is our intention that reviews are responded to within 20 working days which is 14 March 2016.

Kind regards,

The FOI Team
Pembrokeshire County Council
County Hall
Haverfordwest
SA61 1TP

Tel: 01437 775380
Email: [Pembrokeshire Council request email]

We welcome correspondence in Welsh and English. We will respond in the language in which the correspondence is received (unless you ask us to do otherwise). / Byddwn yn ymateb yn yr un iaith â’r ohebiaeth a dderbyniwyd (oni bai eich bod yn gofyn i ni wneud yn wahanol).

show quoted sections

Andy Smith (Account suspended) left an annotation ()

Vexatious request by a "freeman" on the land.

Colin L. Hughes left an annotation ()

How can the council possibly answer a Hypothetical question such as this one is?

Pat James (Account suspended) left an annotation ()

I did not ask for the hypothetical identity of the land owner who makes a clam. I asked for the real identity,

Colin L. Hughes left an annotation ()

That was y our mistake. You asked the wrong question.

You need to re think your modus operandi

Freedom Of Information, Pembrokeshire Council

1 Attachment

If you have received this email in error, please notify us by telephone on
01437 764551 and delete it from your computer immediately. Os ydych chi
wedi derbyn yr e-bost hwn trwy gamgymeriad, byddwch cystal â rhoi gwybod
inni trwy ffonio 01437 764551. Wedyn dylech ddileu’r e-bost ar unwaith
oddi ar eich cyfrifiadur.

 

Dear Pat James,

 

Please find attached the Review Panel’s response to your request for an
Internal Review.

 

If you are not satisfied with the outcome of a review, you can make an
appeal to the Information Commissioner, who is the statutory regulator.
The Information Commissioner can be contacted at:

 

Information Commissioner’s Office

2^nd Floor,

Churchill House

Churchill Way

Cardiff

CF10 2HH

[1]www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk

 

 

Kind regards,

 

The FOI Team

Pembrokeshire County Council

County Hall

Haverfordwest

SA61 1TP

 

Tel: 01437 775380

Email: [2][Pembrokeshire Council request email]

 

 

show quoted sections

Dim ond y sawl y mae'r ddogfen hon wedi'i chyfeirio atynt ddylai ei
darllen, a'i defnyddio ganddynt ar gyfer ei dibenion bwriadedig; ac ni
ddylid fel arall ei hatgynhyrchu, copio, lledaenu, datgelu, addasu,
dosbarthu, cyhoeddi na'i rhoi ar waith chwaith. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn
yr e-bost hwn trwy gamgymeriad, byddwch cystal a rhoi gwybod i ni ar
unwaith trwy ffonio 01437 764551 a'i ddileu oddi ar eich cyfrifiadur ar
unwaith. Ni ddylid rhoi'r cyfeiriad e-bost i unrhyw drydydd parti na'i
ddefnyddio ar gyfer unrhyw ddiben arall chwaith.

Gwefan Cyngor Sir Penfro -  [5]http://www.sir-benfro.gov.uk

Sylwer: Mae negeseuon e-bost sy’n cael eu hanfon a’u derbyn yn cael eu
monitro’n rheolaidd ar gyfer cydymffurfio â’n Diogelwch TG, a’n Polisi
E-bost/Rhyngrwyd.

Mae'r llofnod hwn hefyd yn cadarnhau bod y neges e-bost hon wedi cael ei
harchwilio am fodolaeth firysau cyfrifiadurol a chod maleisus.

Cyngor Sir Penfro
Rhif ffôn  01437 764551
E-bost [6][email address]

Rydym yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg a byddwn yn ymateb cyn
pen 15 diwrnod gwaith fan bellaf. Byddwn yn ymateb yn yr un iaith â’r
ohebiaeth a dderbyniwyd (oni bai eich bod yn gofyn i ni wneud yn wahanol).

Os am gopi mewn print mawr, fformat hawdd ei ddarllen, Braille, sain neu
mewn iaith arall, cysylltwch â’r person a anfonodd yr e-bost hwn.

***************************************************************************************************************

 

References

Visible links
1. http://www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/
2. mailto:[Pembrokeshire Council request email]
3. http://www.pembrokeshire.gov.uk/
4. mailto:[email address]
5. http://www.sir-benfro.gov.uk/
6. mailto:[email address]

Pat James (Account suspended)

Dear Freedom Of Information, to clarify; my request relates to any publicly owned land used for the purposes of parking automobiles.motor cycles, etc. where a Penalty charge notice has been issued.

Yours sincerely,

Pat James

Colin L. Hughes left an annotation ()

What date was the Parking charge notice issued on?

Colin L. Hughes left an annotation ()

Nobody has claimed tort

Freedom Of Information, Pembrokeshire Council

Dear Pat James,

Publicly owned land within Pembrokeshire upon which fixed penalty parking notices are issued, will be registered at HMLR https://www.gov.uk/government/organisati... in the name of Pembrokeshire County Council.

Pembrokeshire County Council also enforces some parking restrictions within Pembrokeshire Coast National Park Authority (PCNPA); so your request should be directed to that body in respect of those restrictions: http://www.pembrokeshirecoast.org.uk/def...

Kind regards,

The FOI Team
Pembrokeshire County Council
County Hall
Haverfordwest
SA61 1TP

Tel: 01437 775380
Email: [Pembrokeshire Council request email]

show quoted sections

Pat James (Account suspended)

Dear Freedom Of Information, if you are stating that public land is owned by the council, then that is fraud, which is a criminal offence. Public Land is owned by the public by means of a trust, and not by the council.

Yours sincerely,

Pat James

Freedom Of Information, Pembrokeshire Council

If you have received this email in error, please notify us by telephone on 01437 764551 and delete it from your computer immediately. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn yr e-bost hwn trwy gamgymeriad, byddwch cystal â rhoi gwybod inni trwy ffonio 01437 764551. Wedyn dylech ddileu’r e-bost ar unwaith oddi ar eich cyfrifiadur.

Dear Pat James,

If you are not satisfied with the response you have received, you have the right to make an appeal to the Information Commissioner:

Information Commissioner’s Office
2nd Floor,
Churchill House
Churchill Way
Cardiff
CF10 2HH

Kind regards,

The FOI Team
Pembrokeshire County Council
County Hall
Haverfordwest
SA61 1TP

Tel: 01437 775380
Email: [Pembrokeshire Council request email]

show quoted sections

Joni Sea left an annotation ()

A body corporate can own property, it is wrong to say it cannot. It follows that a body corporate has the right to take part in proceedings as a legal person. If that was not the case, no company could enforce its rights in any action. The Council has a right to issue proceedings for parking violations that have taken place on land owned by the local authority.
If you doubt the validity of the Parking Order, you need to consider whether it was lawfully made within the constraints of the law governing local authorities, which are entities of statute and not common law. That, or an error of fact, would be the only - and limited bases - upon which enforcement of a parking ticket could be set aside. Even then, especially once things have got to the enforcement stage, you face an uphill task to challenge, to stay, or to prevent enforcement taking place.

Pat James (Account suspended)

Dear Freedom Of Information, are you refusing this request, if so, on what grounds?

Yours sincerely,

Pat James

Freedom Of Information, Pembrokeshire Council

Dear Pat James,

Thank you for your email. Your FOI request has been through our Internal Review process, and your email on 13 March 2017 following the outcome of this review, was a statement, not an FOI request. We re-iterate our previous response that if you are not satisfied with the response you have received, you have the right to make an appeal to the Information Commissioner:

Information Commissioner’s Office
2nd Floor,
Churchill House
Churchill Way
Cardiff
CF10 2HH

Please be advised we will not acknowledge any further correspondence from you regarding this topic.

Kind regards,

The FOI Team
Pembrokeshire County Council
County Hall
Haverfordwest
SA61 1TP

Tel: 01437 775380
Email: [Pembrokeshire Council request email]

show quoted sections

Pat James (Account suspended)

Dear Freedom Of Information, by what authority do you interpret my valid request not to be a freedom of information request?

Yours sincerely,

Pat James

Joni Sea left an annotation ()

You have fundamentally misunderstood the law and the Civil Procedure Rules and your request is misconstrued. The Council is a landowner and an exerciser of rights in respect of property. At the most basic level, the local authority is a 'legal person' for the purposes of the law. If you were suing the council, you would not issue proceedings against an individual officer or councillor unless there were truly exceptional circumstances: you would sue the council as a 'legal person'. The reverse applies in your case, or at least it does based on what can be discerned from the terms of your request.

Looking for an EU Authority?

You can request documents directly from EU Institutions at our sister site AskTheEU.org . Find out more .

AskTheEU.org