Money paid to Guest house/grocery and Order Of Malta

brian ovens made this Freedom of Information request to Clackmannanshire Council

This request has been closed to new correspondence from the public body. Contact us if you think it ought be re-opened.

The request was partially successful.

Dear Clackmannanshire Council,
It has come to my attention that Clackmannanshire Council have spent a lot of money on the following.......

1. Irvine Guest House

2. Brake Grocery, which I believe is in Bristol.(Is this correct)

3. The order of Malta.

Can you provide me with the following..

1.Who actually stayed at the Irvine Guest House, and what was the reason for staying there?

2. Who actually used Brake Grocery and what was the reasons for doing so?

3. Why is Clackmannanshire Council using the Order Of Malta? What actual benefits does Clackmannanshire Council receive from the Order Of Malta?

There has been thousands of pounds used to funds the above, can you also tell me where the money comes from to pay these Bills?

Yours faithfully,

brian ovens

Ian Smail, Clackmannanshire Council

Clackmannanshire Council,
Greenfield, Alloa, Clackmannanshire
FK10 2AD

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Ian Smail, Clackmannanshire Council

3 Attachments

Clackmannanshire Council,
Greenfield, Alloa, Clackmannanshire
FK10 2AD

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Dear Ian Smail,

Thanks for the reply, and for your assistance. I was wondering if you could clear a few of things up?

you said,........

"Only part of the information you
requested may be disclosed.
You had asked:
1.Who actually stayed at the Irvine Guest House, and what was the reason
for staying there?
In response to your query as to the reason this guest house is used is as
bed and breakfast accommodation for the homeless".

Why can you not disclose all the information, surely where public money is spent it is in the Public interest to know how its spent?

Can you tell me who actually owns Irvine Guest House, and who the cheques are made out to when paying Irvine Guest house?

Can you also tell me why Clackmannanshire Council is paying thousands of pounds a week to fund the homeless in Ayrshire, especially when Clackmannanshire is heading towards big cuts?

How many people actually stay in Irvine Guest House each week that make up the cost of what Clackmannshire Council has to pay?

All these questions are in line with my original request.

Yours sincerely,

brian ovens

Ian Smail, Clackmannanshire Council

Dear Mr Ovens

In response to your question about Irvine Guest House:
Why can you not disclose all the information, surely where public money is
spent it is in the Public interest to know how its spent?
I refer to my original response - the information you requested on who
stayed at Irvine Guest House, although held by the Council is subject to
an exemption which is covered by Section 38 as it relates to personal
information and, having considered the public interest, I am unable to
authorise disclosure to you.

In regards to your next questions:
Can you tell me who actually owns Irvine Guest House, and who the cheques
are made out to when paying Irvine Guest house?
Can you also tell me why Clackmannanshire Council is paying thousands of
pounds a week to fund the homeless in Ayrshire,especially when
Clackmannanshire is heading towards big cuts?
How many people actually stay in Irvine Guest House each week that make up
the cost of what Clackmannshire Council has to pay?

I consider these new questions and therefore a new freedom of information
request.

Yours sincerely
Ian Smail
Administration Officer

brian ovens To Ian Smail
<[FOI #49649 email]> <[email address]>
cc
10/11/2010 18:18 Subject Re: CHI0459C55 -
Decision Notice -
Release Information In
Part Letter -
forwarded to Mr. Brian
Ovens

Dear Ian Smail,

Thanks for the reply, and for your assistance. I was wondering if
you could clear a few of things up?

you said,........

"Only part of the information you
requested may be disclosed.
You had asked:
1.Who actually stayed at the Irvine Guest House, and what was the
reason
for staying there?
In response to your query as to the reason this guest house is used
is as
bed and breakfast accommodation for the homeless".

Why can you not disclose all the information, surely where public
money is spent it is in the Public interest to know how its spent?

Can you tell me who actually owns Irvine Guest House, and who the
cheques are made out to when paying Irvine Guest house?

Can you also tell me why Clackmannanshire Council is paying
thousands of pounds a week to fund the homeless in Ayrshire,
especially when Clackmannanshire is heading towards big cuts?

How many people actually stay in Irvine Guest House each week that
make up the cost of what Clackmannshire Council has to pay?

All these questions are in line with my original request.

Yours sincerely,

brian ovens

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Ian Smail, Clackmannanshire Council

Clackmannanshire Council,
Greenfield, Alloa, Clackmannanshire
FK10 2AD

show quoted sections

Dear Ian Smail,

The last 2 years will be fine, thanks.

Yours sincerely,

brian ovens

Ian Smail, Clackmannanshire Council

Clackmannanshire Council,
Greenfield, Alloa, Clackmannanshire
FK10 2AD

show quoted sections

Dear Ian Smail,

Can you tell me where exactly this guest house is in Clackmannanshire?

Thanks for the other information.

Yours sincerely,

brian ovens

Ian Smail, Clackmannanshire Council

Dear Mr Ovens

The guest house is located in Stirling's Local Authority area not in
Clackmannanshire.
Ian Smail
Administration Officer
Administration Services

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References

Visible links
1. http://www.clearswift.com/

Dear Ian Smail,

So what is the address and why are we paying money to Stirlings local authority? I originally thought money was being payed to an Ayrshire company, you said it was local thats why I thought you meant Clackmannanshire. Local to me is the wee county, not another Council area.

Yours sincerely,

brian ovens

Ian Smail, Clackmannanshire Council

Dear Mr Ovens

The address is 28 Bannockburn Road, Stirling.
We are not paying Stirling Council for the use of Irvine Guest House.
I now considered your enquiry closed.

Yours sincerely
Ian Smail
Administration Officer
Administration Services

brian ovens To Ian Smail
<[FOI #49649 email]> <[email address]>
cc
08/12/2010 15:24 Subject Re: CHI037C61D -
Decision Notice -
Release All
Information Requested
Letter - forwarded to
Mr. Brian Ovens 2
Johnston Crescent

Dear Ian Smail,

So what is the address and why are we paying money to Stirlings
local authority? I originally thought money was being payed to an
Ayrshire company, you said it was local thats why I thought you
meant Clackmannanshire. Local to me is the wee county, not another
Council area.

Yours sincerely,

brian ovens

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Dear Ian Smail,

Can you tell me why you have closed it, my questions are legitimate and in full respect of the Freedom Of Information act? If the council could be a little more transparent on actual address's there would be no need for continual requests for Information.

You also said "The following information shows the number of people staying at all units on a weekly basis, including Irvine Guest House, owned by Mr Irvine".

Again I didn't ask for all units, I asked about Money being payed to Irvine guest House which I don't feel you have answered. You also mentioned you have a statutory right to pay this money, under which Statute are you talking about that covers this obligation?

Yours sincerely,

brian ovens

Ian Smail, Clackmannanshire Council

Dear Mr Ovens

I have closed this FOI enquiry as I regarded the questions asked having
been answered. Further questions such as You also mentioned you have a
statutory right to pay this money, under which Statute are you talking
about that covers this obligation? are considered to be a new FOI enquiry.
In response to this query I should point out that all statutes are
publicly available for example Homelessness, etc (Scotland) Act 2003.

In regards to your comment 'that I didn't ask for all units, I asked about
Money being payed to Irvine guest House which I don't feel you have
answered.' I took your question 'How many people actually stay in Irvine
Guest House each week that make up the cost of what Clackmannshire Council
has to pay?' to be requesting the number of people resident each week and
not to do with money paid.

Yours sincerely,

Ian Smail
Administration Officer
Administration Services

brian ovens To Ian Smail
<[FOI #49649 email]> <[email address]>
cc
08/12/2010 16:03 Subject Re: CHI037C61D -
Decision Notice -
Release All
Information Requested
Letter - forwarded to
Mr. Brian Ovens 2
Johnston Crescent

Dear Ian Smail,

Can you tell me why you have closed it, my questions are legitimate
and in full respect of the Freedom Of Information act? If the
council could be a little more transparent on actual address's
there would be no need for continual requests for Information.

You also said "The following information shows the number of people
staying at all units on a weekly basis, including Irvine Guest
House, owned by Mr Irvine".

Again I didn't ask for all units, I asked about Money being payed
to Irvine guest House which I don't feel you have answered. You
also mentioned you have a statutory right to pay this money, under
which Statute are you talking about that covers this obligation?

Yours sincerely,

brian ovens

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Mark left an annotation ()

It's probably been closed as the questions you asked have been fully answered.

Can I ask why you request so many FOI requests to every local authority in Scotland?

While you write numerous FOI requests to local authorities on a daily basis (many which don't even fall under the scope of FOI) and then add more questions to those already answered FOIs it should be brought to your attention that genuine FOI enquiries from others are being put back to answer your numerous requests.

brian ovens left an annotation ()

Whats your full name Mark? Everyone else uses their full names on here, by law you have to if your making FOI requests, and I guess thats why your on this site?

But to answer your question, if you look at the site rules or laws you will find if you are not happy with a request answer, you can ask for more information. You can ask for clarification, just like anyone else can on here, including the people who I ask. I sometimes forget to ask something at the time of my request, then add it later, is there a problem with that Mark?

Can you clear up which requests I have made that have held back someone else's request for information? I take it you would have to have some inside knowledge to know that, so if you can point me to the one's you are talking about it might help me to know what your talking about.

Im actually surprised there isn't more questions being made due to the times we live in and how much the public are being conned. But then, I don't sit around watching Coronation Street like some.

And btw, I also write a lot of letters for information by post, I hope thats ok with you.

brian ovens

Mark left an annotation ()

I originally asked why you make so many FOI requests on a daily basis. I was just curious, no harm in that. No need to be so defensive in your reply.

I just thought that you made FOI requests on a whim as it seems to be the case on many of them, and not on a single issue or single local authority of sorts. I shall reply to your questions point by point though.

(1.) "Whats your full name Mark? Everyone else uses their full names on here, by law you have to if your making FOI requests, and I guess thats why your on this site?"

My full name is Mark Shanks, nothing secretive about that.

(2.) "I sometimes forget to ask something at the time of my request, then add it later, is there a problem with that Mark?"

No, not got a problem with that at all but you do tend to ask the same question again after the answer has been provided in alot of the requests you've made. That's more what I was alluding to.

(3.) "Can you clear up which requests I have made that have held back someone else's request for information?"

Let's say you make half a dozen FOI requests to the same local authority per week that are not really FOI requests or are sometimes just complete nonsense as you have seem to have done previously. That takes up the time of those responsible at the local authority in answering these requests which then puts genuine requests back.

(4.) "I take it you would have to have some inside knowledge to know that, so if you can point me to the one's you are talking about it might help me to know what your talking about."

Not really, but I do know there's a data protection act that protects people from being named in certain circumstances. EG - You request the names of people who are living in homeless accomodation in a couple of your requests. When the local authority states the data proection act that says they cannot name those people you reply more "aggresively" shall we say.

(5.) "And btw, I also write a lot of letters for information by post, I hope thats ok with you."

Of course it's ok with me. Why wouldn't it be? I was just trying to give some helpful advice but I seem to have been rather aggresively responded to, which you seem to have done in a number of answers you've received from your requests. If you want information then why not try and ask without the aggresive approach?

All the Best,

Mark Shanks

brian ovens left an annotation ()

Mark,

You seem to be a bit sensitive, I certainly wasn't aggressive to you or anyone else for that matter, maybe if they have been with me but nothing to get upset about. I don't recall asking for anyones name who lived in Homeless accomdation, can you point out where I asked this, am aware of the data act so I wouldn't ask for that. I must admit, I don't mind constructive criticism, but I didn't feel your e-mail was that. If I repeat a question I may have been asked to do so, I think I have explained myself to you. I don't really have to, and I hope your not offended by that remark. I like to find things out and I just don't take the first answer, if this bores you then don't read my requests, its only my style of doing things and I don't want to offend anyone, you included. Lets share information, not abuse.

All the best, Brian

Mark left an annotation ()

Hi Brian, I'm certainly not "sensitive" as you suggest but merely asked why you send so many FOI requests on a daily basis.

As I pointed out many of your requests can be asked to the relevant departments without the need for a FOI request, such as your request why court documents have CAPITAL LETTERS for surnames.

I also made you aware that the people taking time to deal with "requests" such as this are being held back with answering those genuine requests from people.

That was the general crux of my previous advice. Sensitive..no, offering advice...yes.

Cheers,

Mark Shanks

brian ovens left an annotation ()

Mark,

I read a report from a Council ( I should have kept it)where it said they didn't even have to answer a request anywhere near on a daily basis, and they have different departments too deal with them all, its not one department being used. Also, it is our right to ask and be informed of what is going on, I just wish we could get more information as they with hold far too much.

Brian