How many Principal Fire Officers retired between specified dates and benefitted from the MOU?
Dear Staffordshire Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner,
I am asking the following questions of the PFCC as he is, in law, the scheme manager of all firefighter pension schemes.
a) How many Principal Officers, above GM (Group Manager), retired between the dates of 15th October 2021 and 5th May 2022 and have received their full FPS 1992 pension entitlement under the terms of the MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) agreed between the FBU (Fire Brigades Union) and the LGA (Local Government Association)?
b) In light of the prospect of imminent legal action by the FBU against fire authorities not paying out under the terms of the MOU, when will the PFCC re-consider his fire authoritys position on immediate detriment and the MOU?
Yours faithfully,
Robert Moss
Thank you for your Freedom of Information Request to the Staffordshire
Commissioner’s Office. Please take this acknowledgement as confirmation of
receipt.
Your request will be considered in accordance with the Freedom of
Information Act 2000 and you will receive a response within the statutory
timescale of 20 working days, subject to the provisions of the Act. In
some circumstances the Staffordshire Commissioner’s Office may be unable
to achieve this deadline. If this is likely, you will be informed and
given a revised time-scale at the earliest opportunity.
Keeping your personal information safe and secure is a priority to us.
When you voluntarily provide information, we will collect personal data
from you. This could be when you contact us with enquiries, respond to
one of our surveys, register for access to the commissioner’s website, or
sign up to receive our newsletters.
We would like to continue contacting you in the ways you have already
requested, however you can choose to opt out, or change the preferences
you originally selected by emailing the office at
[1][email address]
Please be assured we value your personal information. You can read our
privacy policy and find out more about how we manage your data on our
website [2]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk/privacy/
Thank you for taking the time to contact the Staffordshire Commissioner’s
Office. You may be able to find information to resolve your enquiry on
the Commissioner’s website which can be found here:
[3]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk
If you would like to stay up to date with the work the office does, you
can sign up to our e-newsletter here:
[4]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk/news/u...
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Dear Mr Moss
Thank you for your FOI request, please find attached our response.
Yours sincerely
Freedom of Information Decision Maker
*Official*
[1]stay connected with news, alerts and updates
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Dear FOI PFCC,
Thank you for your answer to my FOI request but I believe your response to be inaccurate and I believe the answer should have been two. Two members of the Fire Service, Principal management team retired during the dates I specified and both would have been eligible to take their full, respective, FPS 1992 pension entitlements under the terms of the MOU. Can you clarify if the original answer you have given to me falls within my chosen date range in the year of 2021 OR 2022, please? Please review my request.
Yours sincerely,
Robert Moss
Thank you for your Freedom of Information Request to the Staffordshire
Commissioner’s Office. Please take this acknowledgement as confirmation of
receipt.
Your request will be considered in accordance with the Freedom of
Information Act 2000 and you will receive a response within the statutory
timescale of 20 working days, subject to the provisions of the Act. In
some circumstances the Staffordshire Commissioner’s Office may be unable
to achieve this deadline. If this is likely, you will be informed and
given a revised time-scale at the earliest opportunity.
Keeping your personal information safe and secure is a priority to us.
When you voluntarily provide information, we will collect personal data
from you. This could be when you contact us with enquiries, respond to
one of our surveys, register for access to the commissioner’s website, or
sign up to receive our newsletters.
We would like to continue contacting you in the ways you have already
requested, however you can choose to opt out, or change the preferences
you originally selected by emailing the office at
[1][email address]
Please be assured we value your personal information. You can read our
privacy policy and find out more about how we manage your data on our
website [2]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk/privacy/
Thank you for taking the time to contact the Staffordshire Commissioner’s
Office. You may be able to find information to resolve your enquiry on
the Commissioner’s website which can be found here:
[3]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk
If you would like to stay up to date with the work the office does, you
can sign up to our e-newsletter here:
[4]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk/news/u...
This e-mail message is intended solely for the person to whom it is
addressed and may contain information of a confidential or legally
privileged nature which should not be disclosed. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
message and any attachments or copies. Any unauthorised use, disclosure,
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intended recipient is strictly prohibited. The information contained in
this e-mail, and in your reply, may be subject to disclosure under the
Freedom of Information Act 2000 or other legislation and confidentiality
cannot be guaranteed. Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are
solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of
Staffordshire Police. All Staffordshire Police email activity is monitored
for virus, racist, obscene, or otherwise inappropriate activity. No
responsibility is accepted by Staffordshire Police for any loss or damage
arising in any way from the receipt or use of this email.
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Dear Mr Moss
With reference to your email below I have contacted the Authority to clarify the information provided. I can confirm that the information that you have been provided is accurate and within the parameters of your request.
Yours sincerely
Right of Access Team
*Official*
Staffordshire Police HQ, Block 9, Weston Road, Stafford, ST18 0YY
Dear Mr Moss
With reference to your email below I have contacted the Authority to clarify the information provided. I can confirm that the information that you have been provided is accurate and within the parameters of your request.
Yours sincerely
Freedom of Information Decision Maker
*Official*
Staffordshire Police HQ, Block 9, Weston Road, Stafford, ST18 0YY
Dear FOI PFCC,
Can you clarify how many principal managers retired in the date range specified in the original request?
Yours sincerely,
Robert Moss
Thank you for your Freedom of Information Request to the Staffordshire
Commissioner’s Office. Please take this acknowledgement as confirmation of
receipt.
Your request will be considered in accordance with the Freedom of
Information Act 2000 and you will receive a response within the statutory
timescale of 20 working days, subject to the provisions of the Act. In
some circumstances the Staffordshire Commissioner’s Office may be unable
to achieve this deadline. If this is likely, you will be informed and
given a revised time-scale at the earliest opportunity.
Keeping your personal information safe and secure is a priority to us.
When you voluntarily provide information, we will collect personal data
from you. This could be when you contact us with enquiries, respond to
one of our surveys, register for access to the commissioner’s website, or
sign up to receive our newsletters.
We would like to continue contacting you in the ways you have already
requested, however you can choose to opt out, or change the preferences
you originally selected by emailing the office at
[1][email address]
Please be assured we value your personal information. You can read our
privacy policy and find out more about how we manage your data on our
website [2]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk/privacy/
Thank you for taking the time to contact the Staffordshire Commissioner’s
Office. You may be able to find information to resolve your enquiry on
the Commissioner’s website which can be found here:
[3]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk
If you would like to stay up to date with the work the office does, you
can sign up to our e-newsletter here:
[4]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk/news/u...
This e-mail message is intended solely for the person to whom it is
addressed and may contain information of a confidential or legally
privileged nature which should not be disclosed. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
message and any attachments or copies. Any unauthorised use, disclosure,
review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking action
in reliance upon, this message by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is strictly prohibited. The information contained in
this e-mail, and in your reply, may be subject to disclosure under the
Freedom of Information Act 2000 or other legislation and confidentiality
cannot be guaranteed. Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are
solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of
Staffordshire Police. All Staffordshire Police email activity is monitored
for virus, racist, obscene, or otherwise inappropriate activity. No
responsibility is accepted by Staffordshire Police for any loss or damage
arising in any way from the receipt or use of this email.
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Dear Mr Moss
I have again sought clarification from the fire authority regarding your email of the 29 June 2022.
The number of principal managers' that have retired in your original date range request is one.
Yours sincerely
Freedom of Information Decision Maker
*Official*
Staffordshire Police HQ, Block 9, Weston Road, Stafford, ST18 0YY
Dear Staffordshire Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner,
I would like to rephrase my original question, if I may.
I am asking the following questions of the PFCC as he is, in law, the scheme manager of all firefighter pension schemes.
a) How many Principal Officers, above GM (Group Manager), retired between the dates of 1st July 2021 and 31st December 2021 and have received their full FPS 1992 pension entitlement under the terms of the MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) agreed between the FBU (Fire Brigades Union) and the LGA (Local Government Association)?
b) How many Principal Officers, above GM (Group Manager), retired between the dates of 1st January 2022 and 30th June 2022 and have received their full FPS 1992 pension entitlement under the terms of the MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) agreed between the FBU (Fire Brigades Union) and the LGA (Local Government Association)?
Yours faithfully,
Robert Moss
Thank you for your Freedom of Information Request to the Staffordshire
Commissioner’s Office. Please take this acknowledgement as confirmation of
receipt.
Your request will be considered in accordance with the Freedom of
Information Act 2000 and you will receive a response within the statutory
timescale of 20 working days, subject to the provisions of the Act. In
some circumstances the Staffordshire Commissioner’s Office may be unable
to achieve this deadline. If this is likely, you will be informed and
given a revised time-scale at the earliest opportunity.
Keeping your personal information safe and secure is a priority to us.
When you voluntarily provide information, we will collect personal data
from you. This could be when you contact us with enquiries, respond to
one of our surveys, register for access to the commissioner’s website, or
sign up to receive our newsletters.
We would like to continue contacting you in the ways you have already
requested, however you can choose to opt out, or change the preferences
you originally selected by emailing the office at
[1][email address]
Please be assured we value your personal information. You can read our
privacy policy and find out more about how we manage your data on our
website [2]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk/privacy/
Thank you for taking the time to contact the Staffordshire Commissioner’s
Office. You may be able to find information to resolve your enquiry on
the Commissioner’s website which can be found here:
[3]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk
If you would like to stay up to date with the work the office does, you
can sign up to our e-newsletter here:
[4]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk/news/u...
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addressed and may contain information of a confidential or legally
privileged nature which should not be disclosed. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
message and any attachments or copies. Any unauthorised use, disclosure,
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intended recipient is strictly prohibited. The information contained in
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Freedom of Information Act 2000 or other legislation and confidentiality
cannot be guaranteed. Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are
solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of
Staffordshire Police. All Staffordshire Police email activity is monitored
for virus, racist, obscene, or otherwise inappropriate activity. No
responsibility is accepted by Staffordshire Police for any loss or damage
arising in any way from the receipt or use of this email.
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Dear Mr Moss
Further to your FOI request please find attached our response.
Yours sincerely
Freedom of Information Decision Maker
*Official*
Staffordshire Police HQ, Block 9, Weston Road, Stafford, ST18 0YY
Dear Staffordshire Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner,
Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.
I am writing to request an internal review of Staffordshire Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner's handling of my FOI request 'How many Principal Fire Officers retired between specified dates and benefitted from the MOU?'.
The reason I would like a review of the handling of my FOI request is that I was given different information in regard to your answer to my first question, compared to your answer to my revised question. It is my opinion that both versions of my question should have elicited an answer, from yourselves, which totalled two.
The question(s) I asked were about Principal Officers who retired and benefitted financially from the FBU negotiated MOU and the main differences between my original question and my revised question was the date range specified. I originally specified a date range of 15th October 2021 to 5th May 2022 and the answer you gave me was a total of ONE. I even asked if this was correct and for it to be checked but the same answer of ONE was returned.
My revised question posed the same question but was split into two parts, with one part specifying the date range of 1st June 2021 to the 31st December 2021, and the second part of the question specified a date range of 1st January 2022 to the 30th June 2022. Your response gave the answer of ONE in each date range, which gives a total of TWO.
The problem I have with your responses is that my original question should have elicited the same response, of TWO. The reason I believe this to be the case is because SFRS published a retirement date for the CFO of 17/10/2021, and a retirement date for a Director of 04/05/2022. Both of these dates fall within the range of my original question which specified a date range of 15/10/2021 to the 05/05/2022, can you please explain why the answer to my original question differs to the answer to my revised question, please?
A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/h...
Yours faithfully,
Robert Moss
Thank you for your Freedom of Information Request to the Staffordshire
Commissioner’s Office. Please take this acknowledgement as confirmation of
receipt.
Your request will be considered in accordance with the Freedom of
Information Act 2000 and you will receive a response within the statutory
timescale of 20 working days, subject to the provisions of the Act. In
some circumstances the Staffordshire Commissioner’s Office may be unable
to achieve this deadline. If this is likely, you will be informed and
given a revised time-scale at the earliest opportunity.
Keeping your personal information safe and secure is a priority to us.
When you voluntarily provide information, we will collect personal data
from you. This could be when you contact us with enquiries, respond to
one of our surveys, register for access to the commissioner’s website, or
sign up to receive our newsletters.
We would like to continue contacting you in the ways you have already
requested, however you can choose to opt out, or change the preferences
you originally selected by emailing the office at
[1][email address]
Please be assured we value your personal information. You can read our
privacy policy and find out more about how we manage your data on our
website [2]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk/privacy/
Thank you for taking the time to contact the Staffordshire Commissioner’s
Office. You may be able to find information to resolve your enquiry on
the Commissioner’s website which can be found here:
[3]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk
If you would like to stay up to date with the work the office does, you
can sign up to our e-newsletter here:
[4]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk/news/u...
This e-mail message is intended solely for the person to whom it is
addressed and may contain information of a confidential or legally
privileged nature which should not be disclosed. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
message and any attachments or copies. Any unauthorised use, disclosure,
review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking action
in reliance upon, this message by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is strictly prohibited. The information contained in
this e-mail, and in your reply, may be subject to disclosure under the
Freedom of Information Act 2000 or other legislation and confidentiality
cannot be guaranteed. Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are
solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of
Staffordshire Police. All Staffordshire Police email activity is monitored
for virus, racist, obscene, or otherwise inappropriate activity. No
responsibility is accepted by Staffordshire Police for any loss or damage
arising in any way from the receipt or use of this email.
[5]www.staffordshire.police.uk
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Dear Mr Moss
Further to your Internal Review request received on the 30 August 2022, please find attached our response.
Yours sincerely
Freedom of Information Decision Maker
*Official*
Staffordshire Police HQ, Block 9, Weston Road, Stafford, ST18 0YY
Dear FOI PFCC,
As you’re apparently snooping on my social media, in a private Facebook group, which is specifically intended for firefighter pension scheme members, may I ask if my recent edit of my original post satisfies your request? See text below.
Staffordshire Fire and Rescue Service withdrew from the FBU negotiated MOU after the retirement of two Principal Officers, 50% of the Principal Management Team. The adoption of the MOU was announced a few days before the retirement of ONE Principal Officer, in October 2021. SFRS then announced its withdrawal from the MOU in early May 2022, just after the retirement of another Principal Officer. Due to the respective ages of both individuals the remedy would have been worth approximately 7 years of FPS 1992 scheme benefits. See the FOI response to my question, in regard to this matter, from the Office of the Staffordshire Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner. When will the lower ranks get their pension justice?
EDIT: The Commissioner's Office now informs me that they had inadvertently given me an incorrect answer for the year of 2021 and that figure should have been zero. This seems perplexing.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/8...
Yours sincerely,
Robert Moss
Thank you for your Freedom of Information Request to the Staffordshire
Commissioner’s Office. Please take this acknowledgement as confirmation of
receipt.
Your request will be considered in accordance with the Freedom of
Information Act 2000 and you will receive a response within the statutory
timescale of 20 working days, subject to the provisions of the Act. In
some circumstances the Staffordshire Commissioner’s Office may be unable
to achieve this deadline. If this is likely, you will be informed and
given a revised time-scale at the earliest opportunity.
Keeping your personal information safe and secure is a priority to us.
When you voluntarily provide information, we will collect personal data
from you. This could be when you contact us with enquiries, respond to
one of our surveys, register for access to the commissioner’s website, or
sign up to receive our newsletters.
We would like to continue contacting you in the ways you have already
requested, however you can choose to opt out, or change the preferences
you originally selected by emailing the office at
[1][email address]
Please be assured we value your personal information. You can read our
privacy policy and find out more about how we manage your data on our
website [2]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk/privacy/
Thank you for taking the time to contact the Staffordshire Commissioner’s
Office. You may be able to find information to resolve your enquiry on
the Commissioner’s website which can be found here:
[3]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk
If you would like to stay up to date with the work the office does, you
can sign up to our e-newsletter here:
[4]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk/news/u...
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intended recipient is strictly prohibited. The information contained in
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Freedom of Information Act 2000 or other legislation and confidentiality
cannot be guaranteed. Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are
solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of
Staffordshire Police. All Staffordshire Police email activity is monitored
for virus, racist, obscene, or otherwise inappropriate activity. No
responsibility is accepted by Staffordshire Police for any loss or damage
arising in any way from the receipt or use of this email.
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Dear Staffordshire Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner,
Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.
I am writing to request an internal review of Staffordshire Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner's handling of my FOI request 'How many Principal Fire Officers retired between specified dates and benefitted from the MOU?'.
I am sending this further message as a means to avoid referring my complaint to the ICO, yet. The very specific question I asked about a Principal Officer retiring, in October 2021 (or specifically 1st July 2021 - 31st December 2021), and receiving the benefits of their pension under the FBU negotiated MOU was very deliberately constructed, and to avoid all doubt, this request means either at the point of retirement or thereafter.
The MOU was adopted by the Commissioner, as the fire pension schemes manager, between October 2021 and May 2022. By indicating this individual did not retire under the terms of the MOU or have it remedied under the MOU means someone of that age, 50-51, would be approximately 7 years short in their FPS 1992 pension scheme benefits. If that individual was on a salary of approximately £150,000 then that shortfall would be 7/45th of that salary, in this case we are talking about a shortfall in the region of £23,333.33/annum and it is for this reason the answer you have provided 3 out of 4 times does not make any logical sense whatsoever.
I do not mean to be put off by your contradictory responses as I have a great deal of fire pensions experience, indeed, I served as a scheme member representative on SFRSs pension board for in excess of 5 years. I did not originally ask whether the retirement was under the grounds of ill health as it does not alter the expected response, ill health retirements as well as normal retirements fall under the scope of the MOU.
I am left with the conclusion that the most frequent answer you have given me, of zero, is wrong or there is other information which has not yet been brought to light. On the basis that the retirement of this particular Principal Officer was much trumpeted in the media, I am at a loss to reconcile your response with what is logical. I can only conclude that a pension was not taken at all which leads me to post the following enquiries.
1) Did the individual, in fact, not retire when stated, and were they actually placed on paid gardening leave instead?
2) Was the remedy performed under the MOU, for that individual's pension or at a later date, after retirement?
3) Please specify if the individual's full, personal, FPS 1992 pension entitlement was paid out at retirement or soon thereafter but not regarded, by the respondent, as being under the terms of the MOU, e.g. *ill health?
*NB: (ill health is only given as one possible example) All retirements in the date range specified would have been under the scope of the MOU if the individual was born after 1st November 1967 (or 1st September 1967, for retirements on or after 1st October 2021).
A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/h...
Yours faithfully,
Robert Moss
Thank you for your Freedom of Information Request to the Staffordshire
Commissioner’s Office. Please take this acknowledgement as confirmation of
receipt.
Your request will be considered in accordance with the Freedom of
Information Act 2000 and you will receive a response within the statutory
timescale of 20 working days, subject to the provisions of the Act. In
some circumstances the Staffordshire Commissioner’s Office may be unable
to achieve this deadline. If this is likely, you will be informed and
given a revised time-scale at the earliest opportunity.
Keeping your personal information safe and secure is a priority to us.
When you voluntarily provide information, we will collect personal data
from you. This could be when you contact us with enquiries, respond to
one of our surveys, register for access to the commissioner’s website, or
sign up to receive our newsletters.
We would like to continue contacting you in the ways you have already
requested, however you can choose to opt out, or change the preferences
you originally selected by emailing the office at
[1][email address]
Please be assured we value your personal information. You can read our
privacy policy and find out more about how we manage your data on our
website [2]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk/privacy/
Thank you for taking the time to contact the Staffordshire Commissioner’s
Office. You may be able to find information to resolve your enquiry on
the Commissioner’s website which can be found here:
[3]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk
If you would like to stay up to date with the work the office does, you
can sign up to our e-newsletter here:
[4]https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk/news/u...
This e-mail message is intended solely for the person to whom it is
addressed and may contain information of a confidential or legally
privileged nature which should not be disclosed. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
message and any attachments or copies. Any unauthorised use, disclosure,
review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking action
in reliance upon, this message by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is strictly prohibited. The information contained in
this e-mail, and in your reply, may be subject to disclosure under the
Freedom of Information Act 2000 or other legislation and confidentiality
cannot be guaranteed. Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are
solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of
Staffordshire Police. All Staffordshire Police email activity is monitored
for virus, racist, obscene, or otherwise inappropriate activity. No
responsibility is accepted by Staffordshire Police for any loss or damage
arising in any way from the receipt or use of this email.
[5]www.staffordshire.police.uk
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Dear Mr Moss
Further to your request clarification of your Internal Review, please find
attached our response.
Yours sincerely
Freedom of Information Decision Maker
*Official*
[1]stay connected with news, alerts and updates
[2]cid:image003.png@01D79907.56D30610
[3][email address]
[4]stay connected with news, alerts [5]www.staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk
and updates
[6]stay connected with news, alerts Staffordshire Police HQ, Block 9, Weston
and updates Road, Stafford, ST18 0YY
This e-mail message is intended solely for the person to whom it is
addressed and may contain information of a confidential or legally
privileged nature which should not be disclosed. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
message and any attachments or copies. Any unauthorised use, disclosure,
review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking action
in reliance upon, this message by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient is strictly prohibited. The information contained in
this e-mail, and in your reply, may be subject to disclosure under the
Freedom of Information Act 2000 or other legislation and confidentiality
cannot be guaranteed. Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are
solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of
Staffordshire Police. All Staffordshire Police email activity is monitored
for virus, racist, obscene, or otherwise inappropriate activity. No
responsibility is accepted by Staffordshire Police for any loss or damage
arising in any way from the receipt or use of this email.
[7]www.staffordshire.police.uk
References
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3. mailto:[email address]
5. https://staffordshire-pfcc.gov.uk/
7. http://www.staffordshire.police.uk/
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