Greenwich Station DLR to National Rail Oyster and Contactless

The request was successful.

Dear Transport for London,

My name is Alex and I live on the Isle of Dogs. Occasionally, the best journey for me (often due to disruption) is to take the DLR to Greenwich then change to a mainline service into London. In each case I've done this, I have been charged maximum fares to my contactless card, regardless of which (if any) validators I tap on at Greenwich. I have tried both using and not using the pedestal validators when leaving the DLR and entering the mainline train. If I use them, the DLR journey will complete but the national rail will get a maximum fare. If I don't, I'll have two incomplete journeys with maximum fares.

I'd like to know the following:

- Is there any combination of validator taps that can successfully allow interchange from DLR to mainline services at Greenwich?
- If so, what validators need to be tapped? Please note the exact location within the station as validators aren't visibly marked as being for DLR or national rail services.
- If not, why is this not a valid interchange?
- If so, what testing has been done on the signage to help people understand where they need to tap, as I have failed to determine this?
- How many maximum fares were issued in the last five years that could reasonably be attributed to DLR to national rail interchanges at Greenwich, and what percentage of these have been successfully rectified?
- How much additional income has TfL received over the same period as a result of these maximum fares?

Thank you very much in advance for this information!

Yours faithfully,

Alex

Mike Whitaker left an annotation ()

Hi,

I run the independent help site at oysterfares.com.

There is no need to touch any validator while changing between DLR and NR at Greenwich. If you do touch one, then you have to wait at least two minutes before you can touch again to start a new journey. However, you would then be charged for two journeys. Just touch in at your DLR station and out at your NR destination and you will be charged correctly.

Mike Whitaker left an annotation ()

One further thing. If you've been charged two maximum fares when not touching at Greenwich at all then it's likely that you've either exceeded the maximum journey time, or used different devices linked to the same card account. If you want to post details in a thread on my site I'll try and assist.

FOI, Transport for London

Dear Mr Uhde,

 

TfL Ref: FOI-1282-2223

 

Thank you for your request received by Transport for London (TfL) on 23^rd
August 2022 asking for information about journeys from Greenwich DLR
station.

 

Your request will be processed in accordance with the requirements of the
Freedom of Information Act and our information access policy. 

 

A response will be sent to you by 20^th September 2022.

 

We will publish anonymised versions of requests and responses on the
[1]www.tfl.gov.uk website. We will not publish your name and we will send
a copy of the response to you before it is published on our website.

 

In the meantime, if you would like to discuss this matter further, please
do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

David Wells

FOI Case Officer

FOI Case Management Team

General Counsel

Transport for London

 

 

 

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Hi David,

First, and I don't want to get too off-track, but I'd like to know why you addressed me as "Mr" when I have a gender-neutral name? I'm actually a woman, but this isn't terribly relevant. I'm wondering why male is the default assumption for gender-neutral names in replies?

In any case, thank you for your acknowledgement I look forward to your response to my request.

Yours sincerely,

Alex Uhde

Alex Uhde left an annotation ()

Hi Mike, thank you for the information you've given me - however in my experience this has not been the case. Not tapping any reader has resulted in two maximum fares.

FOI, Transport for London

1 Attachment

Dear Alex Uhde,

 

TfL Ref: FOI-1282-2223

 

Thank you for your request received by Transport for London (TfL) on 23^rd
August 2022 asking for information about journeys from Greenwich DLR
station.

 

Your request has been considered in accordance with the requirements of
the Freedom of Information Act and our information access policy. 

 

I can confirm that we hold some of the information you require. Your
questions are answered in turn below:

 

Question 1: Is there any combination of validator taps that can
successfully allow interchange from DLR to mainline services at Greenwich?

 

Answer: There is no requirement to touch on a validator at Greenwich on
interchange. A journey from, say, Island Gardens to London Bridge National
Rail via Greenwich requires a touch-in on a validator at Island Gardens
and a touch-out on a gate at London Bridge National Rail, but here are no
other validations required for such a journey.

 

Question 2: If so, what validators need to be tapped? Please note the
exact location within the station as validators aren't visibly marked as
being for DLR or national rail services.

 

Answer: Please see the answer to question 1 above.

 

Question 3: If not, why is this not a valid interchange?

 

Answer: Greenwich station has open interchange between the National Rail
platforms and the DLR (there are no gates separating the two services) and
as such is a “valid interchange”. In common with many other interchanges
it is acceptable at that location for customers to transfer from one
service to the other without validating anywhere in between. The only
requirement is to have touched in at the start of a journey and touched
out at the end. In this case that journey may involve two different rail
services but it is not viewed as two separate journeys.

 

Question 4: If so, what testing has been done on the signage to help
people understand where they need to tap, as I have failed to determine
this?

 

Answer: See answer to question 3 above.

 

Question 5: How many maximum fares were issued in the last five years that
could reasonably be attributed to DLR to national rail interchanges at
Greenwich, and what percentage of these have been successfully rectified?

 

Answer: As explained above, customers are only required to tap in / out at
the beginning and end of their journey when transferring from the DLR to
National Rail services at Greenwich, and the correct fare will be charged.
There is no need for any additional validation at Greenwich. Therefore TfL
does not hold the requested information as the question is based on an
incorrect premise.

 

Question 6: How much additional income has TfL received over the same
period as a result of these maximum fares?

 

Answer: See answer to question 5 above.

 

If this is not the information you are looking for please do not hesitate
to contact me.

 

Please see the attached information sheet for details of your right to
appeal as well as information on copyright and what to do if you would
like to re-use any of the information we have disclosed.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

David Wells

FOI Case Officer

FOI Case Management Team

General Counsel

Transport for London

 

 

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Hi David,

Thank you for your reply - I think this covers everything, I now know that no touches when changing at Greenwich should work, so I'll try this and write to customer service if I get the "two maximum fares" issue again.

Have a nice day!

Yours sincerely,

Alex Uhde