Geographical coordinates of Waldegrave Priority Admissions Area

The request was partially successful.

Dear Richmond upon Thames Borough Council,

For all maintained schools in the borough of Richmond, please supply the exact geographic coordinates used in your distance calculations for admissions purposes.

Please also provide the name and supplier name of the Geographical Information System that is used to calculate the distances for admissions purposes.

Yours faithfully,

Ms B Unwin

Dear Richmond upon Thames Borough Council,
Apologies that the title of this request doesn't match the content of my previous message.
However, as well as the previous request, please also provide the geographical coordinates of the 4 out-of-borough schools that define the corners of the Waldegrave priority admissions area.

Yours faithfully,

Ms B Unwin

Dear Richmond upon Thames Borough Council,

In addition to the coordinates of the four schools that mark the corners of the Waldegrave Priority Admissions areas, please send me any other coordinates that are used to define the area, for example, as the Oversubscription Criteria describe the area as being split into "two halves" please send the geographical coordinates used to define the "halves".

Yours faithfully,

Ms B Unwin

FOI, Richmond upon Thames Borough Council

Handle as: Official

 

Our Ref: L/KU/richmond20969

 

Dear Ms B Unwin

Thank you for your request for information received on 23 June 2017.

Your request is being considered and the information will be provided
within the 20 working day statutory timescale, this is subject to the
information not being exempt or containing reference to any third party.

The Freedom of Information Act 2000 defines a number of exemptions, if any
of these exemptions apply to the information you have requested then the
information may not be released. You will be informed if this is the case
along with details of your right to appeal.

The application of an exemption may mean that the information you have
requested may take longer to provide than the 20 working day limit. If
this is the case you will be notified in writing along with the additional
time required to consider your application.

If the information you have requested contains references to a third party
then they may have to be consulted before the information can be released.
If this is the case you will be notified in writing.

If you have any queries please contact us.

Regards

 

FOI Team

 

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FOI, Richmond upon Thames Borough Council

Handle as: Official

Our Ref: L/KU/richmond20970

 

Dear Ms B Unwin

Thank you for your request for information received on 23 June 2017.

Your request is being considered and the information will be provided
within the 20 working day statutory timescale, this is subject to the
information not being exempt or containing reference to any third party.

The Freedom of Information Act 2000 defines a number of exemptions, if any
of these exemptions apply to the information you have requested then the
information may not be released. You will be informed if this is the case
along with details of your right to appeal.

The application of an exemption may mean that the information you have
requested may take longer to provide than the 20 working day limit. If
this is the case you will be notified in writing along with the additional
time required to consider your application.

If the information you have requested contains references to a third party
then they may have to be consulted before the information can be released.
If this is the case you will be notified in writing.

If you have any queries please contact us.

Regards

 

FOI Team

 

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or disclose the contents, but must delete it from your system and inform
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stored or monitored, or disclosed to authorised third parties, in
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FOI, Richmond upon Thames Borough Council

Handle as: Official

 

Our Ref: L/KU/richmond20976

 

Dear Ms B Unwin

Thank you for your request for information received on 23 June 2017.

Your request is being considered and the information will be provided
within the 20 working day statutory timescale, this is subject to the
information not being exempt or containing reference to any third party.

The Freedom of Information Act 2000 defines a number of exemptions, if any
of these exemptions apply to the information you have requested then the
information may not be released. You will be informed if this is the case
along with details of your right to appeal.

The application of an exemption may mean that the information you have
requested may take longer to provide than the 20 working day limit. If
this is the case you will be notified in writing along with the additional
time required to consider your application.

If the information you have requested contains references to a third party
then they may have to be consulted before the information can be released.
If this is the case you will be notified in writing.

If you have any queries please contact us.

Regards

 

FOI Team

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you have received this message in error you must not print, copy, use
or disclose the contents, but must delete it from your system and inform
the sender of the error. You should be aware that all emails received and
sent by the London Boroughs of Richmond and Wandsworth Councils may be
stored or monitored, or disclosed to authorised third parties, in
accordance with relevant legislation.

Kam Ubhi, Richmond upon Thames Borough Council

Handle as: Official

 

Our Ref: KU/richmond20970

 

Dear Mrs B. Unwin,

 

Your request for information which was received on 23^rd June 2017 has
been considered.

 

Please find our response below.

 

Your request:

 

Apologies that the title of this request doesn't match the content of my
previous message.

However, as well as the previous request, please also provide the
geographical coordinates of the 4 out-of-borough schools that define the
corners of the Waldegrave priority admissions area.

 

Our response:

 

Waldegrave School – grid references for admissions areas

 

There are two areas used for prioritising admissions to Waldegrave School:
Area A and Area B, which together make a large rectangle covering a swathe
of South-West London.

As set out on page 41 of the Council’s Admission to Richmond’s Secondary
Schools 2017 brochure, the four corners of the rectangle were originally
determined, in 1998, by the ‘link’ primary school furthest away in each
direction: North – John Betts, Hammersmith; South – St John’s, Kingston;
East – St Faith’s, Wandsworth; and West – Forge Lane, Hounslow. (Forge
Lane has since been renamed as St Richard’s Church of England Primary.)

The grid references of the four corners are as follows:

John Betts – TQ22564 79028
St John’s – TQ18330 68634
St Faith’s – TQ26041 74953
St Richard’s – TQ12117 71041

Areas A and B are established by bisecting that rectangle from north to
south. As the points do not have postcodes which we can readily identify,
we are unable to give exact grid references  for them; however, the
approximate eastings and northings coordinates of the northerly point and
southerly point of the bisecting line are as follows:

Northerly point – easting: 5161820; northing: 1768110.
Southerly point: - easting: 5200240; northing: 1694490.

I hope you are satisfied with this response.

 

If you are dissatisfied please let us know in writing, setting out your
reasons why and send to:

 

FOI & Complaints Manager

FOI & Complaints Team

3rd Floor Civic Centre

44 York Street

Twickenham

TW1 3BZ

E-mail: [1][Richmond upon Thames Borough Council request email]

 

IMPORTANT:
This email and any of its attachments are intended solely for the use of
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received
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contents to anyone. Please also delete it from your system and inform the
sender of the error immediately. Emails sent and received by Richmond and
Wandsworth Councils are monitored and may be subsequently disclosed to
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References

Visible links
1. mailto:[Richmond upon Thames Borough Council request email]

Kam Ubhi, Richmond upon Thames Borough Council

Handle as: Official

Our Ref: KU/richmond20976

 

Dear Mrs B. Unwin,

 

Your request for information which was received on 23^rd June 2017 has
been considered.

 

Please find our response below.

 

Your request:

 

In addition to the coordinates of the four schools that mark the corners
of the Waldegrave Priority Admissions areas, please send me any other
coordinates that are used to define the area, for example, as the
Oversubscription Criteria describe the area as being split into "two
halves" please send the geographical coordinates used to define the
"halves".

 

Our response:

 

Waldegrave School – grid references for admissions areas

 

There are two areas used for prioritising admissions to Waldegrave School:
Area A and Area B, which together make a large rectangle covering a swathe
of South-West London.

As set out on page 41 of the Council’s Admission to Richmond’s Secondary
Schools 2017 brochure, the four corners of the rectangle were originally
determined, in 1998, by the ‘link’ primary school furthest away in each
direction: North – John Betts, Hammersmith; South – St John’s, Kingston;
East – St Faith’s, Wandsworth; and West – Forge Lane, Hounslow. (Forge
Lane has since been renamed as St Richard’s Church of England Primary.)

The grid references of the four corners are as follows:

John Betts – TQ22564 79028
St John’s – TQ18330 68634
St Faith’s – TQ26041 74953
St Richard’s – TQ12117 71041

Areas A and B are established by bisecting that rectangle from north to
south. As the points do not have postcodes which we can readily identify,
we are unable to give exact grid references  for them; however, the
approximate eastings and northings coordinates of the northerly point and
southerly point of the bisecting line are as follows:

Northerly point – easting: 5161820; northing: 1768110.
Southerly point: - easting: 5200240; northing: 1694490.

I hope you are satisfied with this response.

 

If you are dissatisfied please let us know in writing, setting out your
reasons why and send to:

 

FOI & Complaints Manager

FOI & Complaints Team

3rd Floor Civic Centre

44 York Street

Twickenham

TW1 3BZ

E-mail: [1][Richmond upon Thames Borough Council request email]

 

IMPORTANT:
This email and any of its attachments are intended solely for the use of
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received
this message in error you must not print, copy, use or disclose the
contents to anyone. Please also delete it from your system and inform the
sender of the error immediately. Emails sent and received by Richmond and
Wandsworth Councils are monitored and may be subsequently disclosed to
authorised third parties, in accordance with relevant legislation.

References

Visible links
1. mailto:[Richmond upon Thames Borough Council request email]

FOI, Richmond upon Thames Borough Council

1 Attachment

 

Our Ref: CM/richmond20969

 

Dear Ms B Unwin,

 

Your request for information which was received on 23 June 2017 has been
considered.

 

Please find our response below.

 

Your request:

 

For all maintained schools in the borough of Richmond, please supply the
exact geographic coordinates used in your distance calculations for
admissions purposes.

 

Please also provide the name and supplier name of the Geographical
Information System that is used to calculate the distances for admissions
purposes.

 

Our response:

 

Please find attached the grid references - determined by removing the
first digit of the eastings and of the northings - for each of the
state-funded schools in the borough, as requested.

 

In answer to the question about the GIS supplier, for the shortest walking
home-to-school distance calculations to work through our Synergy
Admissions system, the following is required:

 

1) A map layer consisting of a routable Road Network layer, including any
footpaths deemed appropriate to use. This is provided and maintained by
Richmond Council.

2) Address point data (grid references) for the pupil address and the
school address (referred to as the delivery point) and also for the
appropriate school 'gates'. These are provided by the National Land
Property Gazetteer and imported by Richmond Council through a Synergy
application.

3) The routing is performed by software called ChronoX (which determines
the shortest route) and MapX (which returns a map displayed in
Admissions). These are third party components provided with the Synergy
software.

 

The Synergy software is provided by Servelec:

[1]https://www.servelec-group.com/servelec-...

 

 

I hope you are satisfied with this response.

 

If you are dissatisfied please let us know in writing, setting out your
reasons why and send to:

 

FOI & Complaints Manager

FOI & Complaints Team

3rd Floor Civic Centre

44 York Street

Twickenham

TW1 3BZ

E-mail: [2][Richmond upon Thames Borough Council request email]

 

 

IMPORTANT:
This email and any of its attachments are intended solely for the use of
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received
this message in error you must not print, copy, use or disclose the
contents to anyone. Please also delete it from your system and inform the
sender of the error immediately. Emails sent and received by Richmond and
Wandsworth Councils are monitored and may be subsequently disclosed to
authorised third parties, in accordance with relevant legislation.

References

Visible links
1. https://www.servelec-group.com/servelec-...
2. mailto:[Richmond upon Thames Borough Council request email]

Dear FOI,
I have a query with reference to your response on July 13th (https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/g....

As requested, you provided me with the coordinates of the four formerly-linked primaries that Waldegrave's policy says are used to define its priority admissions area. You mentioned that they formed the corners of the rectangular priority area. However, I have plotted them on a map and they do not form a rectangle. Instead they form an irregular polygon, that is not bisected by the A/B boundary line that you also gave me the coordinates for. To illustrate the problem, the polygon is marked as "Rectangle 1" on this map: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-91i0y...

Waldegrave's policy implies that the 4 primaries form the north, south, east and west boundaries of the rectangle (rather than the corners), so I have tried plotting that rectangle as an alternative - it is marked as "rectangle 2" on the map. However, your A/B boundary line doesn't bisect that rectangle either.

I can only conclude that you are using a different rectangle - one that doesn't directly relate to the position of the 4 primaries. As per my FOI request, please can you now send me the corner coordinates used to define the rectangle that you are using for Waldegrave's Priority Admissions Area.

Yours sincerely,

B Unwin

FOI, Richmond upon Thames Borough Council

Handle as: Official

 

Our Ref: L/KU/richmond21191

 

Dear Ms B Unwin

Thank you for your request for information received on 3 August 2017.

Your request is being considered and the information will be provided
within the 20 working day statutory timescale, this is subject to the
information not being exempt or containing reference to any third party.

The Freedom of Information Act 2000 defines a number of exemptions, if any
of these exemptions apply to the information you have requested then the
information may not be released. You will be informed if this is the case
along with details of your right to appeal.

The application of an exemption may mean that the information you have
requested may take longer to provide than the 20 working day limit. If
this is the case you will be notified in writing along with the additional
time required to consider your application.

If the information you have requested contains references to a third party
then they may have to be consulted before the information can be released.
If this is the case you will be notified in writing.

If you have any queries please contact us.

Regards

 

FOI Team

 

IMPORTANT:
This email and any of its attachments are intended solely for the use of
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received
this message in error you must not print, copy, use or disclose the
contents to anyone. Please also delete it from your system and inform the
sender of the error immediately. Emails sent and received by Richmond and
Wandsworth Councils are monitored and may be subsequently disclosed to
authorised third parties, in accordance with relevant legislation.

FOI, Richmond upon Thames Borough Council

Handle as: Official

Our Ref: KU/richmond21191

 

Dear Ms B. Unwin,

 

Your request for information which was received on 3^rd August 2017 has
been considered.

 

Please find our response below:

 

Your request:

 

I have a query with reference to your response on July 13th
([1]https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/g....

 

As requested, you provided me with the coordinates of the four
formerly-linked  primaries that Waldegrave's policy says are used to
define its priority admissions area.  You mentioned that they formed the
corners of the rectangular priority area.  However, I have plotted them on
a map and they do not form a rectangle. Instead they form an irregular
polygon, that is not bisected by the A/B boundary line that you also gave
me the coordinates for.  To illustrate the problem, the polygon is marked
as "Rectangle 1" on this map:
[2]https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-91i0y...

 

Waldegrave's policy implies that the 4 primaries form the north, south,
east and west boundaries of the rectangle (rather than the corners), so I
have tried plotting that rectangle as an alternative - it is marked as
"rectangle 2" on the map.  However, your A/B boundary line doesn't bisect
that rectangle either.

 

I can only conclude that you are using a different rectangle - one that
doesn't directly relate to the position of the 4 primaries.  As per my FOI
request, please can you now send me the corner coordinates used to define
the rectangle that you are using for Waldegrave's Priority Admissions
Area.

 

Our response:

 

You are quite right, the rectangle's corners are not the four schools, but
its dimensions are guided by them. When the school's admissions policy was
changed for 2006 entry from four areas (known as 'Quadrants') to two, the
policy was defined as follows: "Girls living within the halves (priority
area A and priority area B) of a rectangular catchment area based
around link primary schools (i.e. those that established a link in 1998
with Richmond Borough’s mixed community schools)." The wording in Note 1
on page 41 of the 2017 [3]Admission to Richmond's Secondary
Schools brochure correctly states that the four schools "were used as a
basis for the boundary of the priority areas" [our italics].

The approximate coordinates for the four corners of the rectangle are as
follows: 

North-west corner: easting = 509182, northing = 173121
North-east corner: easting = 523108, northing = 180648
South-west corner: easting = 513083, northing = 165655
South-east corner: easting = 527040, northing = 173213

The 'Quadrants' were originally introduced to enable girls living on both
sides of the Thames, within Richmond Borough and beyond, a chance of
gaining admission as Waldegrave, being the only state-funded single sex
school in the borough, was considered to be a 'whole-borough resource'.
That principle was retained when the Quadrants were rationalised into two
priority areas for 2006 admissions. Apart from the introduction of a
'daughters of staff' criterion, the school's admissions policy has
been substantially unchanged since it became an academy in 2012.

 

I hope you are satisfied with this response.

 

If you are dissatisfied please let us know in writing, setting out your
reasons why and send to:

 

FOI & Complaints Manager

FOI & Complaints Team

3rd Floor Civic Centre

44 York Street

Twickenham

TW1 3BZ

E-mail: [4][Richmond upon Thames Borough Council request email]

 

IMPORTANT:
This email and any of its attachments are intended solely for the use of
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received
this message in error you must not print, copy, use or disclose the
contents to anyone. Please also delete it from your system and inform the
sender of the error immediately. Emails sent and received by Richmond and
Wandsworth Councils are monitored and may be subsequently disclosed to
authorised third parties, in accordance with relevant legislation.

References

Visible links
1. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/g...
2. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-91i0y...
3. http://www.richmond.gov.uk/media/3066/se...
4. mailto:[Richmond upon Thames Borough Council request email]

Dear FOI,

Thanks for your helpful reply. Can you please clarify why you described the coordinates of the rectangle corners, as well as the coordinates of the bisecting A/B line that you provided in an earlier response, as "approximate"?

As it stands, when I calculate the bisector of your 'approximate' rectangle its position is very slightly offset from your 'approximate' A/B line, so it isn't clear which line, if any, is the one that is actually used by your admissions system (see map at: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?m.... The difference is very small - about the width of a single house - but that difference could obviously be significant for families trying to work out which side of the line they live.

Within your Geographical Information System you must be defining the A/B boundary line precisely. Perhaps you are defining it in a different way, e.g. using a point and a bearing? If so, please send me the details.
Yours sincerely,
B Unwin

FOI, Richmond upon Thames Borough Council

Handle as: Official

Our Ref: L/KU/richmond21239

 

Dear Ms B Unwin

Thank you for your request for information received on 15 August 2017.

Your request is being considered and the information will be provided
within the 20 working day statutory timescale, this is subject to the
information not being exempt or containing reference to any third party.

The Freedom of Information Act 2000 defines a number of exemptions, if any
of these exemptions apply to the information you have requested then the
information may not be released. You will be informed if this is the case
along with details of your right to appeal.

The application of an exemption may mean that the information you have
requested may take longer to provide than the 20 working day limit. If
this is the case you will be notified in writing along with the additional
time required to consider your application.

If the information you have requested contains references to a third party
then they may have to be consulted before the information can be released.
If this is the case you will be notified in writing.

If you have any queries please contact us.

Regards

 

FOI Team

 

IMPORTANT:
This email and any of its attachments are intended solely for the use of
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received
this message in error you must not print, copy, use or disclose the
contents to anyone. Please also delete it from your system and inform the
sender of the error immediately. Emails sent and received by Richmond and
Wandsworth Councils are monitored and may be subsequently disclosed to
authorised third parties, in accordance with relevant legislation.

Kam Ubhi, Richmond upon Thames Borough Council

Handle as: Official

Our Ref: TR/richmond21239

 

Dear B Unwin,

 

Re: Request for information under the Freedom of Information Act 2000

 

Your request for information which was received on 15 August 2017 has been
considered.

 

Please find our response below.

 

Our response:

 

Can you please clarify why you described the coordinates of  the rectangle
corners, as well as the coordinates of the bisecting A/B line that you
provided in an earlier response, as "approximate"? 

 

We describe them as "approximate" because we didn't have full postcodes
for the two end-points.

 

 

As it stands, when I calculate the bisector of your 'approximate'
rectangle its position is very slightly offset from your 'approximate' 
A/B line, so it isn't clear which line, if any, is the one that is
actually used by your admissions system (see map at:
[1]https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?m...
The difference is very small - about the width of a single house - but
that difference could obviously be significant for families trying to work
out which side of the line they live. 

 

Within your Geographical Information System you must be defining the A/B
boundary line precisely.  Perhaps you are defining it in a different way,
e.g. using a point and a bearing?  If so, please send me the details.

The boundary line isn't defined within the GIS.  We use
geographical map​s​​ to determine whether an address falls into either of​
the prior​ity areas or outside of them.​  To determine whether a
particular address falls within Area A or Area B or outside, either we
refer to a physical map,​ e.g. the whole of Morley Road in East Twickenham
is within Area ​B.  We are happy to show you how we determine which
​address falls within either of the priority areas A or B, or out of
area. 

It would be helpful if you could specify ​exactly what it
is you would like to know? 

 

We would be happy to meet with you ​and answer your questions ​if that
would be helpful.

 

 

I hope you are satisfied with this response.

 

If you are dissatisfied please let us know in writing, setting out your
reasons why and send to:

 

FOI & Complaints Manager

FOI & Complaints Team

3rd Floor Civic Centre

44 York Street

Twickenham

TW1 3BZ

E-mail: [2][Richmond upon Thames Borough Council request email]

 

IMPORTANT:
This email and any of its attachments are intended solely for the use of
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received
this message in error you must not print, copy, use or disclose the
contents to anyone. Please also delete it from your system and inform the
sender of the error immediately. Emails sent and received by Richmond and
Wandsworth Councils are monitored and may be subsequently disclosed to
authorised third parties, in accordance with relevant legislation.

References

Visible links
1. https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?m...
2. mailto:[Richmond upon Thames Borough Council request email]

Dear Kam Ubhi,

Thanks for your reply. I started this FOI because I wanted a clear definition of the Waldegrave priority admissions areas, as they aren't clearly defined on the school website or on the council website, and the admissions brochure just has a very low-resolution map that greys out everything outside the borough boundary, including parts of Isleworth that appear to lie within the Area B cut-off distances for 2016 (see https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid....

Unfortunately the FOI hasn't clarified things either - the conclusion seems to be that the only way people can truly find out whether they're in Area A or B is to phone the Council.

Unless you can clarify the definition of the areas further, I have no more questions.

Yours sincerely,

B Unwin

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