ET Costs

The request was refused by Cardiff Council.

Dear Cardiff Council,

I would like to know how much the Council has spent outsourcing to either Barristers Chambers or Solicitors at Employment Tribunals for all Council Staff (including Teaching Staff). Any combination of those below, between 1st August 2000 and the 31 October 2010:

1) For constructive dismissal

2) Unfair dismissal

3) One (or more) of the various discrimination claims and/or under the Protection from Harassment Act

4) Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998

5) Any other Employment issues, I may have omitted.

Please name the Solicitors/Barristers that the Council have outsourced to: For example, 2010 Number (which is the cost spent) Name (Name of Solicitor/Barrister). Please provide the figures in the following format e.g. 2006 – NUMBER HERE AND SOLICITOR OR BARRISTERS NAME HERE; 2007 – NUMBER HERE AND SOLICITOR OR BARRISTERS NAME HERE; 2008 – NUMBER HERE AND SOLICITORS OR BARRISTERS NAME HERE ; 2010 – NUMBER HERE AND SOLICITORS OR BARRISTERS NAME HERE; etc, thus making it easier for one to read and to ensure there is no misunderstandings.

I would request that you include VAT in the figures. Not a before and after VAT, a figure which included total cost including VAT.

Please also send this information as "calendar years" not financial years.

Please note that I do not seek or require any personal information such as names and addresses – only the total figures and name of the law firms whom the Council outsourced too.

I would ask that you remember the statutory duty imposed upon public authorities by virtue of Section 16 of the Freedom of Information Act to provide advice and assistance to requesters. If for any reason you are leaning toward rejecting any part of this request or if you plan to argue that it is unmanageable or unanswerable in any way then I would expect you to contact me promptly to find ways to answer this request to our mutual Satisfaction.

Yours faithfully,

G

Dear Cardiff Council,

I must apologise there was slight technical glitch when I first registered which omitted my name. This has now been rectified by the have you say team, who have been extremely helpful in resolving this issue.
I look forward to receiving the correct information from you.

Yours faithfully,

V Gray

FOI - Citizen & Democratic Services, Cardiff Council

My Ref: HANR181
Your Ref:

Dear V Gray

Thank you for your request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000
about the amount of money spent by the Council outsourcing to Barristers
Chambers and Solicitors at Employment Tribunals received on 15th January
2011.

We are considering your request under the terms of the Freedom of
Information Act, you should receive the information requested within the
statutory timescale of 20 working days, unless the information is exempt
or we require additional time to consider whether disclosure is in the
public interest in accordance with section 10(3) of the Act.

Cardiff Council's policy is to carry out the spirit and requirements of
the Freedom of Information Act in a manner which:
- recognizes the duty to inform as the essential principle underlying
the legislation;
- discloses to requesters the maximum information possible which is not
injurious to the public and private interests identified in the
exemptions in the Act and does so in the most timely and consistent
manner given the nature and scope of the request;
- ensures that fees permitted under the Act are kept to an absolute
minimum whilst safeguarding our position as a non-profit making
repayment department.

We will try to supply information in electronic format by email, but if
this is not possible we will let you know. If you have any special
requirements e.g. language, audio, large print, etc. please let us know.

The Act defines a number of exemptions which may prevent the release of
information. If any exemptions apply to your information request they
will be considered prior to disclosure. If any of the exemption
categories do apply an explanation for non-disclosure will be included
in the Decision Notice response you will receive, included in this
notice is your right to appeal against our decision.

If the information you request contains reference to a third party then
they may be consulted prior to a decision being taken on whether or not
to release the information to you. We will keep you informed if this
issue arises.

In some circumstances a fee may be payable for the information you have
requested, we will inform you of the details if and when appropriate. In
these circumstances you will have to pay the fee before we process and
release the information. The 20 working day time limit for responses
will not start until we receive your payment.

If you have any queries or concerns regarding the FOIA please do not
hesitate to contact me.

You can find out more about the Act from the Information Commissioner
at:
Information Commissioner's Office (Wales)
Cambrian Buildings
Mount Stuart Square
Cardiff
CF10 5FL

http://www.ico.gov.uk
Telephone: 029 2044 8044
Fax: 029 2044 8045
Email: [email address]

Please remember to quote the reference number above in any future
communications.

Yours Sincerely

Matt O'Keefe
Resource Officer (Complaints)
Performance & Resources
Housing & Neighbourhood Renewal

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Dear FOI - Citizen & Democratic Services,

Thank you for your message. I look forward to receiving the correct information.

Yours sincerely,

V Gray

FOI - Citizen & Democratic Services, Cardiff Council

Your Ref: HANR181

Dear V Gray

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT 2000 - INFORMATION REQUEST

We have considered your request for information and have estimated that
the cost of complying with your request will exceed £450 which equates to
18 hours of work. We have made this calculation in accordance with
Regulation 4 of the Freedom of Information and Data Protection
(Appropriate Limits and Fees Regulations) 2004. This calculation was based
on:

· Minimum of 2 hours to complete indents to retrieve files

· 16.5 hours at 30 mins per file to check against your
requirements

· 6-7 hours for a solicitor to check identified files are
appropriate for information to be released

· 2 hours to put appropriate data into a spreadsheet

Under Section 12 of the Freedom of Information Act we are not obliged to
comply with a request for information if we estimate that the cost of
complying with the request would exceed £450.

This letter is therefore a formal refusal notice under section 17(5) of
the Act.

It may be that we can supply some information if you can refine or reduce
your request to more manageable proportions and resubmit your request so
that it brings the cost within the appropriate limit. The Legal
department have suggested that a 3 year time period would be manageable.
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you would like some advice on
refining your request.

Alternatively if you wish to pay a full search and retrieval fee we may be
prepared to consider your request under Section 13 of the Freedom of
Information Act which allows us to charge a fee where the estimated costs
exceed the £450 limit. If you are prepared to pay such a fee please let
us know and we will issue a formal fees notice

You have the right to ask for a review of our decision. If you wish to ask
for a review please set out in writing your reasons and send to The
Information Manager, Cardiff Council, Room CY4A County Hall, CARDIFF, CF10
4UW.

You also have the right, under section 50 of the Freedom of Information
Act to apply to the Information Commissioner for a decision whether, in
any specified respect, your request for information has been dealt with in
accordance with the requirements of Part I of the Act. The Commissioner
will however normally require you to ask for an internal review before
considering such an application.

You can find out more about the Act from the Information Commissioner at:

Information Commissioner's Office (Wales)

Cambrian Buildings

Mount Stuart Square

Cardiff

CF10 5FL

[1]http://www.informationcommissioner.gov.u...

Telephone: 029 2044 8044

Fax: 029 2044 8045

Email: [2][email address]

If you have any queries or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely

Matt O'Keefe

Resource Officer (Complaints)

Performance & Resources

Housing & Neighbourhood Renewal

Matt O*Keefe | Resource Officer (Complaints) / Swyddog Adnoddau (Cwynion)
| (029) 2053 7279 | [email address]

Performance and Resources / Perfformiad ac Adnoddau | Housing &
Neighbourhood Renewal / Tai ac Adnewyddu Cymdogaethau

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Dear FOI - Citizen & Democratic Services,

Thank you for your email. I am extremely concerned at the contents of your email.
1: You stated: “16.5 hours at 30 mins per file to check against your requirements”.
If the files are manual files held in what the Data Protection Act refers to as a "Manual relevant structured filing system," one would expect it would take at most a minute to extract a file from a cabinet, open it, turn up the Tribunal tab and glance at the sheet and scribble a note and put it back again. The "relevant cost limit" from Section 12 is £450 or two and a half days work. If you ran a query on a database, you could identify all the relevant information I have requested and then look at these files. I suggest you do this, start from 2010, and work backwards.

2: You stated “ 6-7 hours for a solicitor to check identified files are appropriate for information to be released”.
Is this normal council procedure for Cardiff City Council to spend taxpayer’s money on solicitors carrying out the work of basic administration staff.

3) You stated: “2 hours to put appropriate data into a spreadsheet”. I suggest you re read the request. I was abundantly clear on the format of the response, which was extremely simple for any basic administrator to carry out. I had required a spreadsheet I would have requested a spreadsheet.

I would point out you have a legal obligation to provide the correct figures.

Thank you for your full Co-Operation.

Yours sincerely,

V Gray

Dear FOI - Citizen & Democratic Services,

A COPY OF THE ORIGINAL REQUEST PLEASE READ ALL OF THE REQUEST:

I would like to know how much the Council has spent outsourcing to either Barristers Chambers or Solicitors at Employment Tribunals for all Council Staff (including Teaching Staff). Any combination
of those below, between 1st August 2000 and the 31 October 2010:

1) For constructive dismissal

2) Unfair dismissal

3) One (or more) of the various discrimination claims and/or under the Protection from Harassment Act

4) Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998

5) Any other Employment issues, I may have omitted.

Please name the Solicitors/Barristers that the Council have
outsourced to: For example, 2010 Number (which is the cost spent)
Name (Name of Solicitor/Barrister). Please provide the figures in
the following format e.g. 2006 – NUMBER HERE AND SOLICITOR OR
BARRISTERS NAME HERE; 2007 – NUMBER HERE AND SOLICITOR OR
BARRISTERS NAME HERE; 2008 – NUMBER HERE AND SOLICITORS OR
BARRISTERS NAME HERE ; 2010 – NUMBER HERE AND SOLICITORS OR
BARRISTERS NAME HERE; etc, thus making it easier for one to read
and to ensure there is no misunderstandings.

I would request that you include VAT in the figures. Not a before
and after VAT, a figure which included total cost including VAT.

Please also send this information as "calendar years" not financial
years.

Please note that I do not seek or require any personal information
such as names and addresses – only the total figures and name of
the law firms whom the Council outsourced too.

I would ask that you remember the statutory duty imposed upon public authorities by virtue of Section 16 of the Freedom of Information Act to provide advice and assistance to requesters. If for any reason you are leaning toward rejecting any part of this
request or if you plan to argue that it is unmanageable or unanswerable in any way then I would expect you to contact me promptly to find ways to answer this request to our mutual Satisfaction.

Yours sincerely,

V Gray

Dear Cardiff Council,

Please provide whatever information you can, given the resources that you have. I would point out you are legally obliged to provide the correct figures and names of Barristers/Solicitors and the total cost.

I do wonder how you manage when an internal audit is carried out and you cannot produce the figure for say the past four years for Employment Tribunals

Yours faithfully,

V Gray

Dear Cardiff Council,

Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.

I am writing to request an internal review of Cardiff Council's handling of my FOI request 'ET Costs'.

As they have failed to respond to the request within the given
timescale.
Please undertake to have the decision reviewed by a senior officer not involved in making the original decision and communicate their response within the relevant timescale on this web page.

I would point out you are legally obliged to provide the correct figures and names of Barristers/Solicitors and the total cost.

A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/et...

Yours faithfully,

V Gray

Bradshaw, Phillip, Cardiff Council

Dear Sir / Madam

I confirm that we have now instigated an internal review of this request
which we would hope to complete within the timescale set out in the ICO
Code of Practice.

Phil Bradshaw

Information Manager

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Mae'n bosibl bod gwybodaeth gyfrinachol yn y neges hon. Os na chyfeirir y
neges atoch chi'n benodol (neu os nad ydych chi'n gyfrifol am
drosglwyddo'r neges i'r person a enwir), yna ni chewch gopio na
throsglwyddo'r neges. Mewn achos o'r fath, dylech ddinistrio'r neges a
hysbysu'r anfonwr drwy e-bost ar unwaith. Rhowch wybod i'r anfonydd ar
unwaith os nad ydych chi neu eich cyflogydd yn caniatau e-bost y Rhyngrwyd
am negeseuon fel hon. Rhaid deall nad yw'r safbwyntiau, y casgliadau a'r
wybodaeth arall yn y neges hon nad ydynt yn cyfeirio at fusnes swyddogol
Cyngor Dinas a Sir Caerdydd yn cynrychioli barn y Cyngor Sir nad yn cael
sel ei fendith. Caiff unrhyw negeseuon a anfonir at, neu o'r cyfeiriad
e-bost hwn eu prosesu gan system E-bost Gorfforaethol Cyngor Sir Caerdydd
a gallant gael eu harchwilio gan rywun heblaw'r person a enwir.

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Bradshaw, Phillip, Cardiff Council

1 Attachment

<<20110326.ReviewReport.doc>>

Dear Sir / Madam

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT 2000 - INFORMATION REQUEST

I have considered your request for a review of the Refusal Notice in
relation to provision of information in accordance with the Freedom of
Information Act 2000.

It is my decision that your challenge is unsuccessful for the reasons set
out in the attached report.

You have the right, under section 50 of the Freedom of Information Act to
apply to the Information Commissioner for a decision whether, in any
specified respect, your request for information has been dealt with in
accordance with the requirements of Part I of the Act.

You can find out more about the Act from the Information Commissioner at:

Information Commissioner's Office (Wales)

Cambrian Buildings

Mount Stuart Square

Cardiff

CF10 5FL

[1]http://www.ico.gov.uk
Telephone: 029 2044 8044
Fax: 029 2044 8045
Email: [2][email address]

Yours Sincerely

Phil Bradshaw
Information Manager

show quoted sections

Mae'n bosibl bod gwybodaeth gyfrinachol yn y neges hon. Os na chyfeirir y
neges atoch chi'n benodol (neu os nad ydych chi'n gyfrifol am
drosglwyddo'r neges i'r person a enwir), yna ni chewch gopio na
throsglwyddo'r neges. Mewn achos o'r fath, dylech ddinistrio'r neges a
hysbysu'r anfonwr drwy e-bost ar unwaith. Rhowch wybod i'r anfonydd ar
unwaith os nad ydych chi neu eich cyflogydd yn caniatau e-bost y Rhyngrwyd
am negeseuon fel hon. Rhaid deall nad yw'r safbwyntiau, y casgliadau a'r
wybodaeth arall yn y neges hon nad ydynt yn cyfeirio at fusnes swyddogol
Cyngor Dinas a Sir Caerdydd yn cynrychioli barn y Cyngor Sir nad yn cael
sel ei fendith. Caiff unrhyw negeseuon a anfonir at, neu o'r cyfeiriad
e-bost hwn eu prosesu gan system E-bost Gorfforaethol Cyngor Sir Caerdydd
a gallant gael eu harchwilio gan rywun heblaw'r person a enwir.

**********************************************************************

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References

Visible links
1. http://www.ico.gov.uk/
2. mailto:[email address]

Dear Mr Bradshaw

I am extremely concerned by your lack of response. The fact that you cannot provide financial information for two years gives the impression of either gross financial misconduct or fraud? Which one is it? As all financial records have to be adhered to and it is apparent from your response this is not the case. As a public authority you have to maintain financial records.

Please advise what happens when the auditors check the payments and you are unable to provide figures for two years???

Perhaps the fraud squad needs to be informed of your financial problems? After all it is the Tax Payers of Cardiff whose money you cannot locate.

I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely,

V Gray

Bradshaw, Phillip, Cardiff Council

Dear Sir / Madam

I really have nothing to add to my decision and report.

There is nothing here which suggests the auditors are unable to do their
job.

In the extremely unlikely situation that they wished to verify the
information which you have requested neither they nor the Council would
not be limited by the costs exemption.

The reality of course is that they would not wish to do so. The
information you have requested has nothing to do with maintaining proper
financial records. The simple fact is that you have requested an
analysis which is of no particular interest to the Council and therefore
the recording systems have not been set up to allow the easy provision
of that analysis.

As indicated I cannot assist further and can only suggest that you ask
the Information Commissioner for a review if you remain dissatisfied.

Phillip Bradshaw

Information Manager
Scrutiny Performance & Improvement

Room CY5C, County Hall

Phone: 029 2087 3346
[mobile number]
Fax: 029 2087 3349

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