ELQ & Medical Degrees
Dear Department for Business, Innovation and Skills,
Since the application of the Education (Student Support) Regulations 2009 came into effect on 1st September 2009, individuals who were in possession of a prior undergraduate degree conferred by any worldwide University were not entitled to Tuition Fee support for subsequent higher education study in the UK which led to an Equivalent or Lower Level Qualification ('ELQ').
Partial exemptions existed for graduates applying to study Medical degrees, who were entitled to Maintenance Loan Support but not to Tuition Fee Loans.
According to the following website, the government's position on this has been revised:
http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/def...
It claims that the position is now that Graduates applying to 5/6 year Medical Degrees will be entitled to Tuition Fee support for the duration of their studies.
I would like answers to the following questions:
1) Can you confirm that this is now the Department's position vis-a-vis Graduates who commence study of a subsequent undergraduate medical degree?
2) If so, can you please explain how this change has been arrived at? I am not privy to any amendments to the Education (Student Support) Regulations 2009 that have been laid before the House and I can only presume eligibility for financial support is still determined in line with those regulations.
3) If the answer to (1) is in the affirmative, can you please provide me with: details as to who within the Department took the decision to amend eligibility for tuition fee support in this way; date(s) on which this decision was taken; copies of any papers circulated at any meetings at which this was discussed; minutes taken at said meetings, including details of who was present; and some explanation of the legal basis upon which the Secretary of State has elected to amend the policy.
4) Again, if the answer to (1) is in the affirmative, can you please provide me with information as to: when this decision was promulgated publicly; when, if at all, Universities were notified of this policy change; copies of any correspondence issued to either the Higher Education Funding Council, the Student Loans Company or Universities which explained this policy change; any other means by which the Department communicated this important change to prospective applicants.
5) In the event that the answer to (1) is 'no', can you please provide some explanation of why the Department for Health is informing applicants to the contrary?
Yours faithfully,
Damien Shannon
Damien Shannon left an annotation ()
Dear Kiara,
For the avoidance of doubt:
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2188/...
Hope this helps
D
Kiara Vincent left an annotation ()
I stand corrected, sorry, obviously had a mental block when reading it the first time. Good luck with your request.
BIS ref: 11/1437
Dear Mr Shannon,
Thank you for your request for information which was received on 28
October 2011. Your request has been passed on to the appropriate official
at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to deal with.
Your request is being dealt with under the terms of the Freedom of
Information Act 2000 and will be responded at the latest by 25 November
2011.
If you have any queries about this email, please contact the information
rights unit at BIS. Please remember to quote the reference number above in
any future communications.
Kind regards,
Information Rights Unit
Security and Information Rights Unit | Department for Business, Innovation
& Skills | Victoria 3, 5th Floor, 1 Victoria Street, London, SW1H OET|
[1]www.bis.gov.uk
The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS) is making a
difference by supporting sustained growth and higher skills across the
economy. BIS: working together for growth
Kiara Vincent left an annotation ()
In case you hadn't seen, the NHS careers website has just been updated to remove the incorrect information about graduates receiving tuition fee funding on 5 year courses to:
"The arrangements for graduate medical students on a five year course are different. In the first four years of the course, they are not eligible to receive a loan for tuition fees or a maintenance grant regardless of whether or not they have previously received funding. However, students may be able to apply for a full, income based, maintenance loan from Student Finance England. From year five of the training, graduate medical students receive the same support as undergraduate medical students."
Damien Shannon left an annotation ()
Dear Kiara,
Yes I have seen it has been amended. I have also provided a mutual acquaintance of ours with an explanation of the legal position outlined in my request. I shall PM you with further details.
D
Dear Mr Shannon,
Please see attached the response to FOI request - Our Ref: 11/1437.
Jane Gardner
<<FOI 11- 1437 Damien Shannon RESPONSE.doc>>
The Department for Business, Innovation & Skills (BIS) is making a
difference by supporting sustained growth and higher skills across the
economy.
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Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or
recorded for legal purposes.
Dear Miss Gardner,
Thank you for this response. I did discover most of the information you provided prior to your response.
However, you state (in your email) that the link I provided you with in my requests did not provide any information to the contrary of the current official policy. This is not true. The link has since been amended by the Department of Health.
Anticipating that this was likely, I took a screen cap of the contents of the website at the time of submitting my request. You can view the pertinent section of the website here:
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2188/...
This does rather illustrate that the Department of Health were issuing information at variance with the policy of DBIS.
There is the possibility that graduates have applied to 'undergraduate' medical programmes on negligent advice as a result. I would strongly advise you to look in to this as a matter of urgency.
Yours sincerely,
Damien Shannon
Dear Mr Shannon,
Thank you for the follow up to your FOI request 11/1437.
The link provided by you in your initial FOI request directed officials to the correct information on the NHS Bursary and student support policy. The interim arrangements for students entering medicine in 2012/13 were widely disseminated following the announcement 28th June and this was explained in response to your FOI request.
As well as the information on the NHS Careers website, the BMA, and medical schools also provided information to students via their respective websites and those considering making an application for medicine would have been exposed to the correct information.
Thank you for highlighting the issue. It is clear that the information held on the NHS Careers website has already been updated. Any further enquiries about the content on the NHS Careers website should be directed to NHS Careers, contact information is available on their site.
Yours Sincerely
Jane Gardner
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Kiara Vincent left an annotation ()
"It claims that the position is now that Graduates applying to 5/6 year Medical Degrees will be entitled to Tuition Fee support for the duration of their studies."
I don't see where on this website it claims this!? It defines undergraduates on 5 year courses and graduates on accelerated courses. It makes no mention of graduates on 5 years courses.
However, the below response to a question about funding for graduates on 5 year course from the Department of Health may be of interest to you and you may want to add this to your request.
"Thank you for your email of 21 October about funding for graduate entry to medicine courses.
Unfortunately, it is impossible to ascertain from your email where you intend to study in the UK (the Department of Health’s remit covers only England) and which year you intend to begin your studies. As you have emailed the Department of Health, the following answer assumes you are applying as a UK citizen to study in England. If that is not the case, please feel free to email the Department again with more information.
Students on university courses in medicine (recognised by the General Medical Council) may be eligible for financial help from the NHS as part of their course. If you are accepted onto approved courses, you might be eligible to receive financial support from the NHS. When this is provided depends on the type of course you are applying for.
Graduates applying for a five-year course that begins in 2012 are entitled to receive student loans from Student Finance England for maintenance and tuition fees in the first four years. From year five onwards, tuition fees will be paid by the NHS Student Bursary Scheme. Students are eligible to apply for a means-tested NHS bursary to cover maintenance costs and a reduced maintenance loan from Student Finance England (equivalent to approximately half the full rate).
These funding arrangements will continue to apply if you are starting your studies in academic years 2011/12 and 2012/13 (universities can charge up to a maximum of £9,000 in tuition fees in 2012/13). Arrangements for funding for students starting their studies in 2013/14 and beyond are yet to be announced.
I hope this reply is helpful.
Yours sincerely,
Russ Hope
Customer Service Centre
Department of Health"