Did the Avon & Somerset Constabulary disclose SAP problems in their NAO/HMIC submission for the July 2013 "Public Sector Partnering" report?

Dave Orr made this Freedom of Information request to National Audit Office

This request has been closed to new correspondence from the public body. Contact us if you think it ought be re-opened.

National Audit Office did not have the information requested.

Dear National Audit Office,

An adverse audit report on the South West One SAP-based Workforce Management (due for implementation in 2009) was produced in Nov'2012:

http://www.aspola.org.uk/cache/PDF/Docum...

"South West One was unable to create a two way interface, therefore DMS has never been informed by information from SAP. Instead the Constabulary has been forced to maintain HR data in NSPIS, the Force’s previous HR system, to feed into DMS to correctly populate rosters resulting in double keying of information, duplicating work and doubling the time it takes to enter or amend personnel records; this also increases the likelihood of error;

Through this process the Constabulary has been advised that a number of issues it experiences with time recording in SAP, including challenges with the layout of the time recording module, could be fixed with the application of SAP Enhancement Pack 4. This has been applied to the background elements of SAP but has not been applied to the user accessed elements of the system. SAP Enhancement Pack 6 has now been released, but the Constabulary has not yet seen the improvements offered by Enhancement Pack 4."

The Avon & Somerset PCC's Office has last week confirmed that the SAP-based Workforce Management issues remain unresolved by IBM/South West One.

Q1. Did the Avon & Somerset Constabulary disclose to the NAO/HMIC the on-going & long overdue problems with SAP from IBM/SW1 when the July 2013 report on "Public Sector Partnerships" report (link below) was compiled?

http://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads...

Q2. How did the NAO/HMIC audit and assure the self-assessment reports by the Avon & Somerset Constabulary for SAP-based process efficiency and procurement savings claims?

Q3. To avoid misleading other Constabularies, who may be encouraged by the NAO/HMIC report (link above) to join the IBM partnership South West One, will the NAO/HMIC consider updating the report (link above) to accurately reflect the problems with SAP in Avon & Somerset Constabulary?

Yours faithfully,

Dave Orr

FOI, REQUESTS,

Dear Mr Orr,
 
Thank you for your request for information about South West One SAP-based
Workforce Management.
 
Having considered your request, we will be dealing with it as
correspondence, rather than a request for information under the Freedom of
Information Act.
 
As you have asked a series of questions, in particular those about audit
processes and future report updates, we feel that we can provide you with
a more comprehensive response than might otherwise be achieved by relying
on documented information that we may hold.
 
Please be assured that we will respond to the points you have raised as
soon as possible.
 
Yours sincerely,
 
Joseph da Silva | FOI Team
National Audit Office, 157-197 Buckingham Palace Road,  Victoria, London,
SW1W 9SP
Telephone: +44 (0)20 7798 7264 | Web: [1]http://www.nao.org.uk/
Helping the nation spend wisely
 
 
 

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Dear FOI, REQUESTS,

I do not think that you can unilaterally change the status of a valid FOI request without my consent.

I made this request under the FOI Act and I reserve my rights under the FOIA.

If you feel that you can respond more fully by treating this as correspondence, then I will await that approach, but will require specific answers to my FOI questions above.

I will also require you to post all replies, correspondence, links and reports to this web site, in response to my formal FOI request.

Yours sincerely,

Dave Orr

BLADEN, Louise,

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Orr

 

Please find my response to your letter regarding South West One.

 

Regards

 

Louise Bladen

Director

Home Office - VFM

 

 

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Dear BLADEN, Louise,

I was unhappy with aspects of your reply to an FOI enquiry on Avon & Somerset Police engaging in misleading self-reporting regarding the controversial joint venture South West One and the SAP IT system they implemented in 2009:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/d...

This relevant and specific article by a leading IT journalist covers the issues of principle and public interest I was trying to make:

http://ukcampaign4change.com/2013/10/24/...

Would you please bring this to the attention of your senior managers and relevant auditors.

Before I bring this unsatisfactory matter to the attention of the Home Affairs Select Committee, I would be obliged if you could acknowledge receipt of this FOI follow-up and let me know when I might expect an informed response (as the FOI reply did not address all of the issues raised).

Yours sincerely,

David Orr.

Cc Avon & Somerset Police & Crime Commissioner, Somerset CC and Taunton Deane BC Avon & Somerset Police & Crime panel members.

BLADEN, Louise,

Dear Mr Orr

Thank you for your email raising concerns about my response to your recent FOI request.

I have passed your email on to our policy team, FOI experts and my immediate line manager along with your original request, our response and other relevant information.

Unfortunately I will be on leave from today until Monday 4 November, so cannot commit to provide a response around our next steps until I return. I would hope to be able to do so by the end of week commencing 4 November.

I would suggest in the meantime if you do need to get in touch that you contact my executive assistant, Joanna King (copied in) who will be able to help in my absence.

Kind regards

Louise Bladen

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BLADEN, Louise,

Dear Mr Orr

Thank you for your email of 24 October. I am now back from leave and have taken the opportunity to consult our FOI experts within the NAO on the matters you raise.

As you know we took a decision to answer your queries as a correspondence case rather than as a FOI request so that we could provide a fuller response than would have been the case for a FOI request. As a next step therefore and to allow us to follow up your concerns appropriately, it would be helpful if you could provide some more detail about the particular aspects of your FOI request which you consider weren't addressed in my response. This should help us identify whether there is anything further we need to do to answer your queries from the material which we hold.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Louise Bladen

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Dear BLADEN, Louise,

This relevant and specific article by a leading IT journalist covers the issues of principle and public interest I was trying to make:

http://ukcampaign4change.com/2013/10/24/...

Please answer the issues raised.

Yours sincerely,

Dave Orr

BLADEN, Louise,

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Orr

 

Please find my response to your emails dated 24^th October and 3^rd
October 2013 attached.

 

Regards

 

 

Louise Bladen

Director

Home Office - VFM

 

 

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Dear BLADEN, Louise,

It is regrettable that the NAO allowed misleading statements about SAP IT into a report carrying your name & reputation, thus allowing positive pre-sales use by the contractor IBM to other Police Services

It is of further concern (see below) that the Avon & Somerset Constabulary failed to seek democratic oversight by seeking approval from the elected Police & Crime Commissioner and the Police & Crime Panel.

Could you please ensure that the FOI information below is added to the file and brought to the attention of relevant assessing staff.

The admission that the Risk Log for the contract is, quite incredibly, being managed by the contractor themselves, should, in my view, be considered for immediate follow-up:

This information from an FOI on the Avon & Somerset Constabulary:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/p...

Q1. When will the much overdue and new Workforce Management solution be implemented and fully integrated with SAP by South West One, to avoid
manual processes and double-keying etc?

A1. Approximately 12 months.

Q2a. Who in the Constabulary (job title) reported the information to the HMIC/NAO, that was then used by the HMIC in section 5.5 of the above report?

A2a. HMIC interviewed numerous people and were supplied with extensive documentation. It is therefore not possible to answer this question.

Q2b. Did the Constabulary seek PCC and/or the Police & Crime Panel oversight and approval BEFORE the self-assessment reporting of the information relating to SW1 in 5.5 above to the HMIC? If so, when & please
pass a link to the meeting minutes or disclose relevant document(s).

No

Q3. Were the above outstanding SAP problems reported to HMIC when the Constabulary self-assessed their submission to HMIC for the July 2013 "Public Sector Partnering" report (link below)?

Yes

Q2. Please disclose the latest copy of the Risk Log/Register (or similar
assessment report[s]) for the South West One contract with IBM.

The risk register is held, maintained and managed by Southwest One, therefore, No information is held by the Constabulary in relation to this question.

Yours sincerely,

Dave Orr

BLADEN, Louise,

Dear Mr Orr

Just to follow up on your email. Thank you for providing this further information on South West One - we have noted it for our records and I have made the relevant people aware of this.

Kind regards
Louise Bladen

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BLADEN, Louise,

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Orr

 

Please find attached my response to your email correspondence sent on the
14^th and 22^nd of November.

 

Regards

 

Louise Bladen | Director, Home Affairs Value for Money
National Audit Office, 157-197 Buckingham Palace Road,  Victoria, London,
SW1W 9SP
Helping the nation spend wisely 

 

 

The information contained in this email, and any files transmitted with
it, is intended only for the individual or entity to whom it is addressed.
Such information may be confidential and privileged, and no mistake in
transmission is intended to waive or compromise such privilege.

If you have received the email in error, please notify the NAO's Post
Master at mailto: [email address].

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the
presence of computer viruses.

Please visit our website at www.nao.org.uk

 

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Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or
recorded for legal purposes.