Details of payments / other support (staffing resources etc) in Support of Mark James' counterclaim against Jacqui Thompson
Dear Carmarthenshire Council,
I would like details of any and all expenditure the council undertook to support Mr. James' counterclaim against Jacqui Thompson.
Items of particular interest include any payments made for legal representation, and costs associated with the provision of any other assistance (use of council resources / staff in support of the case).
Yours faithfully,
Martin Milan
Dear Mr. Milan
Thank you for your request for information, which was received on 17th February, 2016 and is being dealt with under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
We are therefore required to provide a response within 20 working days, which will be on or before 16th March, 2016.
If we require clarification we will contact you as soon as possible – please note that the timescale for response specified above may be subject to change if this is the case.
In the meantime, please do not hesitate to contact me should you have any queries, remembering to quote the reference number above in any communications.
Yours sincerely
John Tillman
Swyddog Gwybodaeth a Diogelu Data
Adran y Prif Weithredwr
Cyngor Sir Gaerfyrddin
Information & Data Protection Officer
Chief Executive's Department
Carmarthenshire County Council
Mewnol/Internal: 4127
Allanol/External: 01267 224127
Dear Mr. Tillman,
Thanks for your reply, and I look forward to hearing from you in due course...
Yours sincerely,
Martin Milan
Dear Mr. Tillman,
I note this request has now slipped beyond the statutory deadline for a response.
Perhaps you could advise me of the nature of the delay, together with an estimate of when you feel you will likely be able to provide the information requested...
Yours sincerely,
Martin Milan
Dear Mr Milan,
Thank you for your email.
I can assure you that your request has not been overlooked and that a further response will be provided as soon as possible.
Yours sincerely
John Tillman
Swyddog Gwybodaeth a Diogelu Data
Adran y Prif Weithredwr
Cyngor Sir Gaerfyrddin
Information & Data Protection Officer
Chief Executive's Department
Carmarthenshire County Council
Mewnol/Internal: 4127
Allanol/External: 01267 224127
Dear Mr. Tillman,
Whilst I am pleased to learn that my request has not been overlooked, I am extremely disappointed with the Council's handling of this request. You have failed to address either of the substantive questions I posed - namely:
* What is the nature of the delay?
* Could I please have an estimate of when you feel you will be able to provide the information requested?
The requirement that you respond within the defined time period is not based upon a guideline or a code of practice, but rather statutory law. Law you are currently in breach of.
Please either satisfy the original request or answer the above questions promptly. I'm more than happy to refer this to the FOI Commissioner if needs be, but I'm sure you would rather avoid that. I've tried to be accomodating, but my patience is not without limit.
Sincerely,
Martin Milan.
Dear Mr Milan,
Thank you for your further email of 23rd March, 2016.
I anticipate being in a position to respond to your request by the end of week commencing 4th April, 2016. Once again, I do apologise for this.
Yours sincerely
John Tillman
Swyddog Gwybodaeth a Diogelu Data
Adran y Prif Weithredwr
Cyngor Sir Gaerfyrddin
Information & Data Protection Officer
Chief Executive's Department
Carmarthenshire County Council
Mewnol/Internal: 4127
Allanol/External: 01267 224127
Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw atodiadau yn gyfrinachol ac wedi'u bwriadu at ddefnydd yr unigolyn y'u cyfeiriwyd ato/ati yn unig. Os derbyniwch y neges hon trwy gamgymeriad, rhowch wybod i'r sawl a'i hanfonodd ar unwaith, dilëwch y neges o'ch cyfrifiadur a dinistriwch unrhyw gopïau papur ohoni. Ni ddylech ddangos yr e-bost i neb arall, na gweithredu ar sail y cynnwys. Eiddo'r awdur yw unrhyw farn neu safbwyntiau a fynegir, ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwynt y Cyngor. Dylech wirio am firysau eich hunan cyn agor unrhyw atodiad. Nid ydym yn derbyn unrhyw atebolrwydd am golled neu niwed a all fod wedi'i achosi gan firysau meddalwedd neu drwy ryng-gipio'r neges hon neu ymyrryd â hi.
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Dear Mr Milan,
I refer to your request for information, which was received on 17^th
February, 2016 and has been dealt with under the Freedom of Information
Act 2000. Please accept my apologies for the delay in providing this
response.
The specific information you requested was as follows:
“I would like details of any and all expenditure the council
undertook to support Mr. James' counterclaim against Jacqui
Thompson.
Items of particular interest include any payments made for legal
representation, and costs associated with the provision of any
other assistance (use of council resources / staff in support of
the case).”
In response, please find below the relevant information held by the
Council.
Counterclaim – James v Thompson
Legal Costs - £29,414.08
Yours sincerely
John Tillman
Swyddog Gwybodaeth a Diogelu Data
Adran y Prif Weithredwr
Cyngor Sir Gaerfyrddin
Information & Data Protection Officer
Chief Executive's Department
Carmarthenshire County Council
Mewnol/Internal: 4127
Allanol/External: 01267 224127
Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw atodiadau yn gyfrinachol ac wedi'u bwriadu at
ddefnydd yr unigolyn y'u cyfeiriwyd ato/ati yn unig. Os derbyniwch y neges
hon trwy gamgymeriad, rhowch wybod i'r sawl a'i hanfonodd ar unwaith,
dilëwch y neges o'ch cyfrifiadur a dinistriwch unrhyw gopïau papur ohoni.
Ni ddylech ddangos yr e-bost i neb arall, na gweithredu ar sail y cynnwys.
Eiddo'r awdur yw unrhyw farn neu safbwyntiau a fynegir, ac nid ydynt o
reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwynt y Cyngor. Dylech wirio am firysau eich
hunan cyn agor unrhyw atodiad. Nid ydym yn derbyn unrhyw atebolrwydd am
golled neu niwed a all fod wedi'i achosi gan firysau meddalwedd neu drwy
ryng-gipio'r neges hon neu ymyrryd â hi.
This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for
the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. If received in error
please notify the sender immediately, delete the message from your
computer and destroy any hard copies. The e-mail should not be disclosed
to any other person, nor the contents acted upon. Any views or opinions
expressed are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those
of the Council. You should carry out your own virus check before opening
any attachment. We accept no liability for any loss or damage which may be
caused by software viruses or interception/interruption of this mail.
Dear FOIA,
A single solitary total under the vague heading of "Counterclam - James v Thompson - Legal Costs" is hardly a comprehensive reply to my query, unless of course I am invited to believe that no support whatsoever was provided by the council - which would find a little suspicious since I attended the trial as a witness and saw Mr. James frequently consult with the Acting Head of Legal Services.
Whilst we're on the topic, why has the council paid out on an indemnity (the legality of which we all know is open to question) when Mark James actually won his case? Surely an indemnity should only have led to a payout had he lost the case?
Since the payout was apparenty going to made regardless of the result of Mr. James' counterclaim, it would be more accurate, would it not, to say that the council have in fact directly funded a legal attack against a member of the public, flying in the face of both the Derbyshire Agreement and indeed laws passed by the Welsh Assembly?
Sincerely,
Martin Milan.
Yours sincerely,
Martin Milan
Dear Sir,
I write further to your email of 12.19 on the 11^th April 2016 was has
been passed to me to deal with.
I will aim to respond substantively to your appeal within 20 working days
of its receipt, that is by the 10^th May 2016.
Yours sincerely
Robert Edgecombe
Deputy Monitoring Officer
Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw atodiadau yn gyfrinachol ac wedi'u bwriadu at
ddefnydd yr unigolyn y'u cyfeiriwyd ato/ati yn unig. Mae'n bosib bod yr
e-bost hefyd yn cynnwys gwybodaeth gyfreithiol freintiedig. Os derbyniwch
y neges hon trwy gamgymeriad, rhowch wybod i'r sawl a'i hanfonodd ar
unwaith, dilëwch y neges o'ch cyfrifiadur a dinistriwch unrhyw gopïau
papur ohoni. Ni ddylech ddangos yr e-bost i unrhyw un arall, na gweithredu
ar sail y cynnwys. Eiddo'r awdur yw unrhyw farn neu safbwynt a fynegir, ac
nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwynt y Cyngor. Dylech wirio am
firysau eich hunan cyn agor unrhyw atodiad. Nid ydym yn derbyn unrhyw
atebolrwydd am golled neu niwed a all fod wedi'i achosi gan firysau
meddalwedd neu trwy ryng-gipio’r neges hon neu ymyrryd â hi. Ni fydd y
Cyngor yn derbyn dogfennau a gyflwynir yn y cyfeiriad e-bost hwn at
ddibenion cyfreithiol, oni chytunir ar hynny yn ysgrifenedig ymlaen llaw
gyda'r sawl sy'n eu hanfon.
This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for
the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. This e-mail may also
contain legally privileged information. If received in error please notify
the sender immediately, delete the message from your computer and destroy
any hard copies. The e-mail should not be disclosed to any other person,
nor the contents acted upon. Any views or opinions expressed are those of
the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Council. You
should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. We
accept no liability for any loss or damage which may be caused by software
viruses or interception/interruption of this mail. The Council will not
accept service of documents at this e-mail address for legal purposes,
unless agreed in advance in writing with the sender.
Dear Robert Edgecombe,
My thanks for giving this matter your attention.
I will await your response with interest.
Yours sincerely,
Martin Milan
Dear Sir,
Please find enclosed the response to your request for an internal review
in this case.
Yours sincerely
Robert Edgecombe
Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw atodiadau yn gyfrinachol ac wedi'u bwriadu at
ddefnydd yr unigolyn y'u cyfeiriwyd ato/ati yn unig. Mae'n bosib bod yr
e-bost hefyd yn cynnwys gwybodaeth gyfreithiol freintiedig. Os derbyniwch
y neges hon trwy gamgymeriad, rhowch wybod i'r sawl a'i hanfonodd ar
unwaith, dilëwch y neges o'ch cyfrifiadur a dinistriwch unrhyw gopïau
papur ohoni. Ni ddylech ddangos yr e-bost i unrhyw un arall, na gweithredu
ar sail y cynnwys. Eiddo'r awdur yw unrhyw farn neu safbwynt a fynegir, ac
nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwynt y Cyngor. Dylech wirio am
firysau eich hunan cyn agor unrhyw atodiad. Nid ydym yn derbyn unrhyw
atebolrwydd am golled neu niwed a all fod wedi'i achosi gan firysau
meddalwedd neu trwy ryng-gipio’r neges hon neu ymyrryd â hi. Ni fydd y
Cyngor yn derbyn dogfennau a gyflwynir yn y cyfeiriad e-bost hwn at
ddibenion cyfreithiol, oni chytunir ar hynny yn ysgrifenedig ymlaen llaw
gyda'r sawl sy'n eu hanfon.
This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for
the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. This e-mail may also
contain legally privileged information. If received in error please notify
the sender immediately, delete the message from your computer and destroy
any hard copies. The e-mail should not be disclosed to any other person,
nor the contents acted upon. Any views or opinions expressed are those of
the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Council. You
should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. We
accept no liability for any loss or damage which may be caused by software
viruses or interception/interruption of this mail. The Council will not
accept service of documents at this e-mail address for legal purposes,
unless agreed in advance in writing with the sender.
Dear Mr. Edgecombe,
Actually, the record shows that I did not request an internal review - I merely posed questions in light of Mr. Tillman’s response. I had thought from your comments that you had chosen to treat those questions as a seperate request under the Freedom of Information Act, but decided to allow that to proceed in the interest of getting at the answers.
You are of course to be congratulated on your masterful response, of which even the great Sir Humphrey Appleby would have been justly proud. You have actually managed to completely avoid even referring to the main questions I posed, namely:
***
Whilst we're on the topic, why has the council paid out on an indemnity (the legality of which we all know is open to question) when Mark James actually won his case? Surely an indemnity should only have led to a payout had he lost the case?
Since the payout was apparenty going to made regardless of the result of Mr. James' counterclaim, it would be more accurate, would it not, to say that the council have in fact directly funded a legal attack against a member of the public, flying in the face of both the Derbyshire Agreement and indeed laws passed by the Welsh Assembly?
***
That is a very serious question about an equally serious chunk of the council’s money and, if I may, I feel to be deserving of more proper consideration.
I resent the implication that I have set out to mislead over Linda Rees Jones’ conversations with Mr. James in court, though I do accept your assertion of the need for these parties to speak in light of Mr. James being a witness in court. Odd that these conversations continued after Mr. James’ evidence - one of life’s little mysteries no doubt…
No matter - as you have stated an entitled to appeal to the Informaton Commissioner, and I feel, with a heavy heart, this is what I am now going to have to do.
My thanks for taking the time to review your files, which in all sincerity I accept is perhaps not a small undertaking. If your officers can spend hours discussing these issues, formulate and offer an indemnity and coordinate legal action with Mr. James, it seems rather odd to a layman such as myself that the costs associated with such endeavours cannot be traced. Perhaps your cost centres need to be revisited, or perhaps your officers have taken the view that defending the dear leaders is a form of unpaid public service for the higher good…
Regards,
Martin Milan.
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