Current initiative to replace Fujitsu/Horizon System (2020 onwards)
Dear Post Office Limited,
As a result of your response to my request FOI2023/00329, as advised I am submitting a new request to seek information on the *current* intiative to replace the Horizon system.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am seeking information on the current intiative as of 2023, rather than the previous failed initiatives, and so the search can be restricted to 2020 onwards.
Please could you provide whatever papers or presentations exist which were presented to or agreed by the Exec or Board, which describe the current strategy being used for the procurement of the Horizon, including information on the planned timetable, proposed high level architecture/technical shape, and the companies being used.
Yours faithfully,
Peter Howard
Our ref: FOI2023/00534
Dear Peter Howard,
Thank you for your request for information which was received on 11th
September. Your request is being considered under the terms of the Freedom
of Information Act 2000.
The Act requires that a response must be given promptly, and in any event
within 20 working days. We will therefore reply at the latest by 9th
October.
Please remember to quote the reference number above in any future
communications.
Regards,
Data Protection and Information Rights Team
100 Wood Street,
London,
EC2V 7ER
Dear Peter Howard
We are writing in respect of your information request, FOI2023/00534. At
present our view is that your request falls within the scope of the
qualified exemption at section 43 of the Freedom of Information Act ("
FOIA"), relating to commercial interests.
As permitted by section 10 of the FOIA, Post Office Limited (" Post
Office") requires further time to consider the public interest test in
relation to this exemption. An extension is permitted until such time as
is reasonable in the circumstances. Having considered the FOIA Code of
Practice, Post Office considers that an extension of 20 working days is
appropriate in this instance and will therefore aim to respond to you by
6th November.
With kind regards
Data Protection and Information Rights Team
100 Wood Street,
London,
EC2V 7ER
[1][email address]
Post Office Limited is committed to protecting your privacy, information
about how we do this can be found on our website at
www.postoffice.co.uk/privacy
References
Visible links
1. mailto:[email address]
Dear Peter Howard
Further to our extension letter of 4 October 2023, we are once again
writing in respect of your information request, FOI2023/00534. It is still
our view that your request falls within the scope of the qualified
exemption at section 43 of the Freedom of Information Act (" FOIA"),
relating to commercial interests.
As permitted by section 10 of the FOIA, Post Office Limited (" Post
Office") requires further time to consider the public interest test in
relation to this exemption. Having considered the FOIA Code of Practice
once again, Post Office considers that an extension of 20 working days is
appropriate in this instance and will therefore aim to respond to you by
5th December.
With kind regards
Data Protection and Information Rights Team
100 Wood Street,
London,
EC2V 7ER
[1][email address]
Post Office Limited is committed to protecting your privacy, information
about how we do this can be found on our website at
www.postoffice.co.uk/privacy
References
Visible links
1. mailto:[email address]
Dear Peter Howard
Further to our emails of 4 October and 6 November, we are once again
writing in respect of your information request, FOI2023/00534. It is still
our view that your request falls within the scope of the qualified
exemption at section 43 of the Freedom of Information Act (" FOIA"),
relating to commercial interests.
As permitted by section 10 of the FOIA, Post Office Limited (" Post
Office") requires further time to consider the public interest test in
relation to this exemption. Having considered the FOIA Code of Practice
once again, Post Office considers that an extension of 20 working days is
appropriate in this instance and will therefore aim to respond to you by
8th January.
Kind regards
Data Protection and Information Rights Team
100 Wood Street,
London,
EC2V 7ER
[1][email address]
Post Office Limited is committed to protecting your privacy, information
about how we do this can be found on our website at
www.postoffice.co.uk/privacy
References
Visible links
1. mailto:[email address]
Dear Peter Howard
Further to our emails of 4 October 2023, 6 November and 1 December, we are
once again writing in respect of your information request, FOI2023/00534.
It is still our view that your request falls within the scope of the
qualified exemption at section 43 of the Freedom of Information Act ("
FOIA"), relating to commercial interests.
As permitted by section 10 of the FOIA, Post Office Limited (" Post
Office") requires further time to consider the public interest test in
relation to this exemption. Having considered the FOIA Code of Practice
once again, Post Office considers that an extension of 20 working days is
appropriate in this instance and will therefore aim to respond to you by
5th February.
Thank you for your patience whilst we handle this FOI request.
Kind regards
Data Protection and Information Rights Team
100 Wood Street,
London,
EC2V 7ER
[1][email address]
Post Office Limited is committed to protecting your privacy, information
about how we do this can be found on our website at
www.postoffice.co.uk/privacy
References
Visible links
1. mailto:[email address]
Dear [email address],
When you last responded on this request, you indicated that I should receive a further update by 5th February 2024. This is over five weeks ago and I still do not appear to have received a response.
As this response has now had several additional 20 day extensions, could you please let me know when I will receive a substantive response?
Given the enormous national interest around Horizon, I believe it is certainly in the public interest for high level information on POL's plans for much delays replacement, including which technologies and companies are involved, to be revealed. Please note that I am not looking for commercial details such as financial values.
I look forward to your response ASAP.
Yours sincerely,
Peter Howard
Dear Peter Howard,
Please accept our sincere apologies for the delay in responding to you.
We can assure you that we are working to get your response to you and will do so as soon as possible. We have received a large number of requests and we are doing everything we can to respond to each request accurately and in a timely manner.
Thank you for your understanding.
With kind regards,
Information Rights
Data Protection and Information Rights Team
100 Wood Street
London
EC2V 7ER
postoffice.co.uk
Dear information.rights,
This request is now many months overdue, with even the last "holding" response from you now being almost 4 months ago.
Given this is a request for information which should be readily available (it that it is requesting information on the current plans for the replacement for Horizon) and is clearly in the public interest (with the ongoing publicity and concern over the existing Horizon system), such ongoing delay is unacceptable.
Please could you let me know when this information will be made available?
Yours sincerely,
Peter Howard
Dear Peter Howard,
Thank you for your email. We sincerely apologise for the delay in responding to your request. We will aim to get your response to you by no later than Friday 12th July.
With kind regards,
Data Protection and Information Rights Team
100 Wood Street
London
EC2V 7ER
postoffice.co.uk
Dear Peter Howard,
Please find the response attached relating to your Freedom of Information
request.
Regards,
Data Protection and Information Rights Team
100 Wood Street,
London,
EC2V 7ER
Dear Post Office Limited,
Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.
I am writing to request an internal review of Post Office Limited's handling of my FOI request 'Current initiative to replace Fujitsu/Horizon System (2020 onwards)', and to request that Post Office Limited consider what subset of the available information could be released given the strong public interest related to this subject.
Taking your three grounds for refusal in turn:
- Section 31(3) - prejudice the prevention of crime. I am only seeking high level "strategic" information, at the level of internal papers or presentations, and not detailed information which would prejudice security.
The refusal to release high level infomation appears to be what is known in the IT industry as "Security Through Obscurity", and thwarts public scruitiny. Reliance on the secrecy of high level documentation such as that requested - which is presumably known to a large number of people in POL, their bidders and subcontractors, and which will presumably "leak" over the coming months and years, is in my view spurious. I reiterate, I am not requesting any sensitive information, such as detailed design information, purely high level information to allow public scruitiny of the decisions being made in such a high profile case of public interest. Specifically I am not seeking any detailed information on the security controls of the replacement system which would be of use to an attacker.
- Section 40(2) and 40(3A) - names and personal data related to Post Office employees. If the documents concerned do contain such information I would be happy for the names to be redacted; it was never the intention of this FOI Request to see such information, and using the presence of such appears to be a distraction. Redaction of such names would presumably be trivial and therefore mitigate this ground.
- Section 43(2) - prejudice of commercial interests. I do not accept that disclosing the high level information regarding the companies involved (specifically, to which contracts have been awarded by a body such as Post Office Ltd) or high level information on the products would prejudice the system being "secure and fit for purpose" or undermine the ability of the Post Office to gain best value (given contracts have presumably been awarded). It is also unproven that disclosure of high level information would hinder "testing and assurance".
The replacement of Horizon, given the history of the past 25 years operation of both Legacy Horizon and HNG-X, together with the failed initiative as part of the 2015 "Front Office Towers" procurement, is of considerable public interest and, given the previous failures, it is surely in the public interest to maximise transparency and ensure public confidence in what is emerging.
Please note that I am not requesting detailed design documentation, detailed commercial document (or even financial values) or detailed security information, just high level information which demonstrates POL's direction of travel ("strategy" as in my original request).
I therefore request that POL review their refusal and, in a spirit of openness, consider what information can be released.
A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/c...
Yours faithfully,
Peter Howard
Dear Peter Howard,
Thank you for contacting us with your request for an internal review which
was received on 6th August.
This has been assigned to a caseworker (our ref: IR2024/01099) and we will
aim to provide you with a response within 40 working days.
If you have any questions, then please do not hesitate to contact us.
Regards,
Data Protection and Information Rights Team
100 Wood Street,
London,
EC2V 7ER
Dear Mr Howard
Thank you for your message. While we are happy to carry out an internal review, based on your reasons for why you believe the exemptions should not have been engaged, it appears you are refining your request rather than disputing the use of exemptions.
Please confirm if you still want us to carry out an internal review or whether you would like us to consider your response as a new, refined request for information under FOIA.
Yours sincerely
Information Rights Team
Dear information.rights,
Thank you for your message.
I would please like you to conduct a review of your refusal to provide the requested information.
In my opinion I have not refined the request, but rather corrected the apparent misunderstanding that I was after personal information (which was never requested) or after very detailed information (which again was never requested). I believe the current request is still in line with my original submission back in 2023.
However, if POL wish to advise on a refinement which is likely to expedite the release of the requested information, or a majority of it, then I would happily submit a new request alongside this review.
Thank you for your cooperations.
Yours sincerely,
Peter Howard
Dear Peter Howard
The date that the response is due for your request, IR2024/01099, has been
changed to 2nd October
Kind Regards,
Data Protection and Information Rights Team
100 Wood Street,
London,
EC2V 7ER
[1][email address]
Post Office Limited is committed to protecting your privacy, information
about how we do this can be found on our website at
www.postoffice.co.uk/privacy
References
Visible links
1. mailto:[email%20address]
Dear Peter Howard
We are still undertaking the internal review of your request. The date
that the response is due for your request, IR2024/01099, has been changed
to 30th October
Kind Regards
Data Protection and Information Rights Team
100 Wood Street,
London,
EC2V 7ER
[1][email address]
Post Office Limited is committed to protecting your privacy, information
about how we do this can be found on our website at
www.postoffice.co.uk/privacy
References
Visible links
1. mailto:[email%20address]
Dear Peter Howard
We apologise for the delay in responding to your internal review request.
The date that the response is due for your request, IR2024/01099, has been
changed to 27th November
Kind Regards
Data Protection and Information Rights Team
100 Wood Street,
London,
EC2V 7ER
[1][email address]
Post Office Limited is committed to protecting your privacy, information
about how we do this can be found on our website at
www.postoffice.co.uk/privacy
References
Visible links
1. mailto:[email%20address]
We work to defend the right to FOI for everyone
Help us protect your right to hold public authorities to account. Donate and support our work.
Donate Now