CROYDON PARKING – PhonePay Anomalies – Rule Changes
Dear Croydon Borough Council,
1 - If someone wants to make a train journey, they can book and pay in advance.
If someone uses the Dartford Crossing, or needs to pay a Central London Road Toll or ULEZ charge, they can pay in arrears up to the end of the next day.
How does this work for parking in Croydon?
2A - Please explain why the new Phonepay only parking system has onstreet parking signage saying PayPoint may be available, but gives no indication of where to find PayPoint nearby.
2B – How are those without phones supposed to find a way to park?
3A - Please explain why the new Phonepay only parking system has no indication onstreet of how much charges are for how long – this is necessary information before a driver decides to park and pay.
3B – Then why does the Ringo app require the public to choose a time period, and only then show how much it costs – rather than showing a full list of options, so a driver may choose the one best for them?
4 - Please explain why the new Phonepay only parking system has reduced the number of parking locations by using the same location code for a large length of road that was covered by multiple parking meter machines with different location codes.
For example it was permitted to park at one location with a ticket from one machine, and then move to a different location with a different machine and get a different ticket there.
Now this is only possible where there is a different location code.
For example, park in Malcolm Road in Coulsdon, move 20 yards into Brighton Road, park again, move 30 yards into Station Approach Road, park again – all possible and legitimate.
However park in Brighton Road near Dobles and then move 200 yards down to near Pet Shop and you can’t park there, as it is the same location code.
5A – Is the purpose of this system is to prevent a car being parked for more than an hour (now two) in one place, not to prevent people parking in very different locations an hour later?
5B - Why is the No Return period as long as two hours – one hour is more than enough to prevent abuse, especially with PhonePay?
6 - Do the parking rules now allow a driver to park in one bay, register for free or paid-for parking, and then move to another bay with the same location code, even if some distance away – so long as the car is removed before the total time has elapsed – that used to be reparking, a contravention?
7A - Do the parking rules now allow a driver to “meter feed” by extending the maximum time period beyond that originally set – for example park for free, then pay for an extra 30 minutes an hour later – it used to be a requirement to pay only on arrival?
7B – How is the public made aware of this change?
8A - How does the Ringo app ensure the rules are properly followed in the situation where a driver parks at say 1005, registers for free parking for one hour, then goes away at 1015, then comes back at 1220, having compiled with “No return for two hours”, and wants another one hour free parking – as is his right – it has been claimed that the Ringo app assumes the driver parked to the very end of the time booked – when we know most drivers leave before that point?
8B – How about getting a free ticket at 1615, valid to 0900 the next day, then want to park the next day at 0830 – having gone away for maybe 15 hours?
9 - Chipstead Valley Road (CVR) parking bays between the post office and Red Lion Aldi had location code 19577 shown on the signs telling the public how to register and pay for parking.
How can the council distinguish between parking sessions taken, free or paid, using this location code when parked by the shops from those when parked by the houses between the PO and Portnalls Road?
10A - The signs now show location code 19589.
When and why was this change made – who raised any issue?
10B - How does the council deal with an inconsistency between location code as shown on the street signs and that supposedly applying at the location?
10C - How many other location codes have been changed onstreet across the borough?
11 - Please provide a spreadsheet showing the numbers of parking sessions booked via Ringo, free or paid, for each of the locations 19577 and 19589, for every day of June to October 2024 inclusive.
That is to include the number and duration for each rate, ie one table for each location code.
Row for each date in each of those five months.
Column for each time period available, heading to include the rate.
Number of sessions booked in each corresponding cell.
Separate tables required for sessions booked via Ringo mobile app, Ringo pc app, Ringo phone call and PayPoint.
The purpose is partly to investigate how the public is using the new system, and identify any issues, for example people put off by this complex new system.
12 - Has the council identified any instance of members of the public being charged to park in CVR by the shops for periods of one hour when they should have been able to park for free?
13 - Has the council identified any instance of members of the public being charged to park in CVR by the shops for periods of 1½ hour or 2 hours at a rate of £3.60 or £4.80 when they should have been able to park for just £1.20 or £2.40?
14 - If so, please state the date and number of such instances on that date, and what steps the council has taken to compensate those drivers.
15A - The Report to Cabinet states that parking is free for 30 minutes at District Centre car parks.
Another FOI Request has showed that some people have been able to obtain free parking at various car parks.
Why then does the Ringo pc app not offer this option, and with the minimum time allowed being one hour for £1.50?
15B - Why then do the signs at LGR car park show the minimum charge as £1.13-£1.50 for one hour?
15C - How do the public obtain free parking at these car parks.
Yours faithfully,
Kevin Lawrence
Dear Croydon Borough Council,
Please confirm this Request is in hand, and when to expect a response.
Yours faithfully,
Kevin Lawrence
Dear Croydon Borough Council,
The 20 working day deadline for response has passed without any reply from the council.
Please confirm when to expect the reply, lest an Internal Review become necessary.
Yours faithfully,
Kevin Lawrence
Information Team Croydon
Digital Services
Assistant Chief Executive Directorate
Bernard Wetherill House
7th Floor, Zone B
Croydon
CR0 1EA
Contact: Information Team
[email address]
Good afternoon,
With regards to your FOI 10935, we would like to inform you that your
request is currently with our FOI team and a response is being reviewed.
Once all necessary redactions have been made we will ensure to get this
sent out to you without any further delay.
We apologise for the inconvenience this may have caused and would like to
thank you for your kind patience.
Kind regards,
Information Team.
Information Team Croydon
Digital Services
Assistant Chief Executive Directorate
Bernard Wetherill House
7th Floor, Zone B
Croydon
CR0 1EA
Contact: Information Team
[email address]
Dear Kevin Lawrence
Request FOI/10935
Freedom of Information Request
Your request has been considered under the provisions of the Freedom of
Information Act. Please accept our apologies for the delay in responding
to you. Specifically, you have requested the following information:
1 - If someone wants to make a train journey, they can book and pay in
advance.
If someone uses the Dartford Crossing, or needs to pay a Central London
Road Toll or ULEZ charge, they can pay in arrears up to the end of the
next day.
How does this work for parking in Croydon?
2A - Please explain why the new Phonepay only parking system has onstreet
parking signage saying PayPoint may be available, but gives no indication
of where to find PayPoint nearby.
2B – How are those without phones supposed to find a way to park?
For questions 1, 2A & 2B – this information can be found on our website,
please the link below. Section 21 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000
therefore applies, ‘Information reasonably accessible to the applicant by
other means’. This acts as an exemption notice. Section 21 is an absolute
exemption and therefore does not require the public interests balancing
test to be applied.
This means that the Council is relieved of the duty to communicate the
requested information to an applicant if there is an existing method by
which the information can be obtained, outside of the operation of the
Freedom of Information Act and Environmental Information Regulations.
[1]https://www.croydon.gov.uk/parking-stree...
However, to assist we have also attached some FAQ’s for cashless parking
in Croydon.
3A - Please explain why the new Phonepay only parking system has no
indication onstreet of how much charges are for how long – this is
necessary information before a driver decides to park and pay.
The RingGo App shows details of Parking Charges, customers opting for the
phone system will also be provided with parking costs.
3B – Then why does the Ringo app require the public to choose a time
period, and only then show how much it costs – rather than showing a full
list of options, so a driver may choose the one best for them?
The RingGo App shows all the parking charges, as well as the phone system
when calling up to register a session
4 - Please explain why the new Phonepay only parking system has reduced
the number of parking locations by using the same location code for a
large length of road that was covered by multiple parking meter machines
with different location codes.
For example it was permitted to park at one location with a ticket from
one machine, and then move to a different location with a different
machine and get a different ticket there.
Now this is only possible where there is a different location code.
For example, park in Malcolm Road in Coulsdon, move 20 yards into Brighton
Road, park again, move 30 yards into Station Approach Road, park again –
all possible and legitimate.
However park in Brighton Road near Dobles and then move 200 yards down to
near Pet Shop and you can"t park there, as it is the same location code..
The Freedom of information Act (FoIA) is only applicable to information
held by the public authority in recorded format, what you have requested
is not recorded and better answered outside of FoIA by contacting the
relevant service. However, to assist you they have advised that parking
remains the same the only thing that has changed is the method of payment.
Should you require any further information in relation to this issue
please contact parking service direct or check the parking pages on our
website.
5A – Is the purpose of this system is to prevent a car being parked for
more than an hour (now two) in one place, not to prevent people parking in
very different locations an hour later?
The Freedom of information Act (FoIA) is only applicable to information
held by the public authority in recorded format, what you have requested
is not recorded and better answered outside of FoIA by contacting the
relevant service. However, to assist you they have advised that parking is
allowed in various locations as long the correct RingGo location code is
obtained. Should you require any further information in relation to this
issue please contact parking service direct or check the parking pages on
our website.
5B - Why is the No Return period as long as two hours – one hour is more
than enough to prevent abuse, especially with PhonePay?.
The Freedom of information Act (FoIA) is only applicable to information
held by the public authority in recorded format, what you have requested
is not recorded and better answered outside of FoIA by contacting the
relevant service. However, to assist you they have advised that to reduce
the abuse of repeated one hour free sessions.
Should you require any further information in relation to this issue
please contact parking service direct or check the parking pages on our
website.
6 - Do the parking rules now allow a driver to park in one bay, register
for free or paid-for parking, and then move to another bay with the same
location code, even if some distance away – so long as the car is removed
before the total time has elapsed – that used to be reparking, a
contravention?
The Freedom of information Act (FoIA) is only applicable to information
held by the public authority in recorded format, what you have requested
is not recorded and better answered outside of FoIA by contacting the
relevant service. However, to assist you they have advised that nothing
has changed you can move your vehicle within the same RingGo location
code. Should you require any further information in relation to this issue
please contact parking service direct or check the parking pages on our
website.
7A - Do the parking rules now allow a driver to "meter feed” by extending
the maximum time period beyond that originally set – for example park for
free, then pay for an extra 30 minutes an hour later – it used to be a
requirement to pay only on arrival?
The Freedom of information Act (FoIA) is only applicable to information
held by the public authority in recorded format, what you have requested
is not recorded and better answered outside of FoIA by contacting the
relevant service. However, to assist you they have advised that you can
purchase a free or paid session and extend a session before the session
ends up to the max stay of the location. Should you require any further
information in relation to this issue please contact parking service
direct or check the parking pages on our website.
7B – How is the public made aware of this change? Info?
Croydon website, Trial periods were held across the borough in various
locations, Press releases ,Letter drops to businesses.
8A - How does the Ringo app ensure the rules are properly followed in the
situation where a driver parks at say 1005, registers for free parking for
one hour, then goes away at 1015, then comes back at 1220, having compiled
with "No return for two hours”, and wants another one hour free parking –
as is his right – it has been claimed that the Ringo app assumes the
driver parked to the very end of the time booked – when we know most
drivers leave before that point?
The Freedom of information Act (FoIA) is only applicable to information
held by the public authority in recorded format, what you have requested
is not recorded and better answered outside of FoIA by contacting the
relevant service. However, to assist you they have advised that currently
only 1 free session is available per day in anyone location (code). Should
you require any further information in relation to this issue please
contact parking service direct or check the parking pages on our website.
8B – How about getting a free ticket at 1615, valid to 0900 the next day,
then want to park the next day at 0830 – having gone away for maybe 15
hours?
The Freedom of information Act (FoIA) is only applicable to information
held by the public authority in recorded format, what you have requested
is not recorded and better answered outside of FoIA by contacting the
relevant service. However, to assist you they have advised that sessions
are only valid for the operational hours that your parked in and only 1
free session per day. So, if parked at 16:15 and obtained 1 hour free
parking, you could then at 9am the following day obtain another free
session. Should you require any further information in relation to this
issue please contact parking service direct or check the parking pages on
our website.
9 - Chipstead Valley Road (CVR) parking bays between the post office and
Red Lion Aldi had location code 19577 shown on the signs telling the
public how to register and pay for parking.
How can the council distinguish between parking sessions taken, free or
paid, using this location code when parked by the shops from those when
parked by the houses between the PO and Portnalls Road?
The Freedom of information Act (FoIA) is only applicable to information
held by the public authority in recorded format, what you have requested
is not recorded and better answered outside of FoIA by contacting the
relevant service. However, to assist you they have advised that these are
separated by different location codes. Should you require any further
information in relation to this issue please contact parking service
direct or check the parking pages on our website.
10A - The signs now show location code 19589.
When and why was this change made – who raised any issue?
The Freedom of information Act (FoIA) is only applicable to information
held by the public authority in recorded format, what you have requested
is not recorded and better answered outside of FoIA by contacting the
relevant service. However, to assist you they have advised that the
incorrect sign was installed with the wrong location code and a member of
the public notified Croydon, and this was rectified on the 26th of
September by highways. Should you require any further information in
relation to this issue please contact parking service.
10B - How does the council deal with an inconsistency between location
code as shown on the street signs and that supposedly applying at the
location?
The Freedom of information Act (FoIA) is only applicable to information
held by the public authority in recorded format, what you have requested
is not recorded and better answered outside of FoIA by contacting the
relevant service. However, to assist you they have advised that errors
have been addressed as soon as possible. Should you require any further
information in relation to this issue please contact parking service.
10C - How many other location codes have been changed on street across the
borough?
No information held.
11 - Please provide a spreadsheet showing the numbers of parking sessions
booked via Ringo, free or paid, for each of the locations 19577 and 19589,
for every day of June to October 2024 inclusive.
That is to include the number and duration for each rate, ie one table for
each location code.
Row for each date in each of those five months.
Column for each time period available, heading to include the rate.
Number of sessions booked in each corresponding cell.
Separate tables required for sessions booked via Ringo mobile app, Ringo
pc app, Ringo phone call and PayPoint.
The purpose is partly to investigate how the public is using the new
system, and identify any issues, for example people put off by this
complex new system.
For questions 11 to 14, we consider that the specific level of data you
requested cannot be retrieved by way of a reasonable search in the
relevant electronic databases. In order to provide this information the
Council would need to undertake a specific piece of work
which would exceed the appropriate limit. The Freedom of Information (Fees
and Appropriate Limit) Regulations 2004 specifies an “appropriate limit”
for the amount of time the council needs to spend undertaking that
search. If the council estimates that the time taken to locate, retrieve
and extract the information requested will exceed the appropriate limit,
then under Section 12 of the Act, it is not obliged to comply with that
request.
The appropriate limit currently specified by the Regulations for local
authorities is £450. This represents the estimated cost of one person
spending two and a half working days in locating, retrieving and
extracting the information from where it is stored. We estimate that the
cumulative time it would take officers to retrieve the complete records
you are seeking would exceed the appropriate limit. Therefore, we are
unable to disclose the information you are seeking.
12 - Has the council identified any instance of members of the public
being charged to park in CVR by the shops for periods of one hour when
they should have been able to park for free
Please see answer above.
13 - Has the council identified any instance of members of the public
being charged to park in CVR by the shops for periods of 1 hour or 2 hours
at a rate of 3.60 or 4.80 when they should have been able to park for just
1.20 or 2.40?
Please see answer above.
14 - If so, please state the date and number of such instances on that
date, and what steps the council has taken to compensate those drivers.
Please see answer above.
15A - The Report to Cabinet states that parking is free for 30 minutes at
District Centre car parks.
The Freedom of information Act (FoIA) is only applicable to information
held by the public authority in recorded format, what you have requested
is not recorded and better answered outside of FoIA by contacting the
relevant service. However, to assist you they have advised that there is
no free 30mins Parking within any of the District Car Park there appears
to be an admin error on the report, which is currently being addressed,
please see attached corrected version. Should you require any further
information in relation to this issue please contact parking service.
Another FOI Request has showed that some people have been able to obtain
free parking at various car parks
The Freedom of information Act (FoIA) is only applicable to information
held by the public authority in recorded format, what you have requested
is not recorded and better answered outside of FoIA by contacting the
relevant service. However, to assist you they have advised that the only
free Parking is in Central Parade New Addington where the first hour is
free. Should you require any further information in relation to this issue
please contact parking service or check the parking pages on our website.
Why then does the Ringo pc app not offer this option, and with the minimum
time allowed being one hour for 1.50?
The Freedom of information Act (FoIA) is only applicable to information
held by the public authority in recorded format, what you have requested
is not recorded and better answered outside of FoIA by contacting the
relevant service. However, to assist you they have advised that there is
no free parking apart from New Addington so it would not show. Should you
require any further information in relation to this issue please contact
parking service or check the parking pages on our website.
15B - Why then do the signs at LGR car park show the minimum charge as
1..13-1.50 for one hour?
The Freedom of information Act (FoIA) is only applicable to information
held by the public authority in recorded format, what you have requested
is not recorded and better answered outside of FoIA by contacting the
relevant service. However, to assist you they have advised that this is
the correct parking charge for this location. Should you require any
further information in relation to this issue please contact parking
service or check the parking pages on our website.
15C - How do the public obtain free parking at these car parks.
The only Car Park with free one – hour is in New Addington, the free
parking for 1 hour can be obtained via RingGo
The Council publishes Access to Information requests and responses on its
online Disclosure Log. (Any request included within this log will be
anonymised appropriately)
To view the Council’s Disclosure Log, please visit our website available
here:
[2]The Freedom of Information (FOI) Act | Croydon Council
(disclosure-log.co.uk)
If you are dissatisfied with the way the Council has handled your request
under the Freedom of Information Act you may ask for an internal review.
This should be submitted to us within 40 working days of this response.
You can do this by outlining the details of your complaint by:
Email: [email address]
Writing: Information Team
London Borough of Croydon
Bernard Weatherill House
3^rd Floor - Zone E
8 Mint Walk
Croydon CR0 1EA
Any requests received after the 40 working day time limit will be
considered only at the discretion of the council.
If you are not content with the outcome of the internal review, you have
the right to apply directly to the Information Commissioner for a
decision. The Information Commissioner can be contacted at:
Information Commissioner’s Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire SK9 5AF
Yours sincerely
Croydon Council
References
Visible links
1. https://www.croydon.gov.uk/parking-stree...
2. https://croydon.disclosure-log.co.uk/
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