Communications with individual PAs and PA groups

Thank you for getting in touch. Please note this is an automated email.
Your receipt of this means that we have safely received your email.

We are currently receiving a high volume of requests and there will be a
delay in getting back to you with a further acknowledgement. We will do so
as soon as we can.

Since 6 December 2023, the GMC has been subject to the Welsh Language
Standards. You are welcome to contact us in Welsh and we will respond in
Welsh, without this causing additional delay.

In the meantime, if you want any further information about the GMC, please
visit our website: [1]Home - GMC (gmc-uk.org)

General Medical Council

We work with doctors, patients, and other stakeholders to support good,
safe patient care across the UK. We set the standards doctors and those
who train them need to meet, and help them achieve them. If there are
concerns these standards may not be met or that public confidence in
doctors may be at risk, we can investigate, and take action if needed.

This email may contain privileged or confidential information which should
only be used for the purpose for which it has been sent.

If you are not the addressee or have received this email in error, please
do not read, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on it or any
attachments. Please email the sender and then immediately delete it.

The General Medical Council is a charity registered in England and Wales
(1089278) and in Scotland (SC037750)

You are welcome to contact us in Welsh. We will respond in Welsh, without
this causing additional delay.

_________________________________________________________________

Cyngor Meddygol Cyffredinol

Rydym yn gweithio gyda meddygon, cleifion a rhanddeiliaid eraill i
gynorthwyo gofal da a diogel i gleifion ar draws y DU. Rydym yn gosod y
safonau y bydd angen i feddygon a’r rhai sy’n eu hyfforddi eu bodloni, ac
yn eu helpu i’w cyflawni. Os bydd pryderon efallai na fydd y safonau hyn
yn cael eu cyflawni neu y gallai hyder y cyhoedd mewn meddygon fod mewn
perygl, gallwn ymchwilio, a gweithredu os oes angen.

Efallai bod y neges e-bost hon yn cynnwys gwybodaeth freiniol neu
gyfrinachol, y dylid ei defnyddio at y diben y’i hanfonwyd yn unig.

Os nad chi yw’r derbynnydd neu os ydych chi wedi cael yr e-bost hwn mewn
camgymeriad, peidiwch â’i ddarllen, argraffu, ail-anfon, storio na
gweithredu mewn ffordd sy’n dibynnu arni neu unrhyw atodiadau os gwelwch
yn dda. Dylech anfon e-bost at yr anfonwr ac yna, ei ddileu ar unwaith.

Mae’r Cyngor Meddygol Cyffredinol yn elusen gofrestredig yng Nghymru a
Lloegr (1089278) ac yn Yr Alban (SC037750)

Mae croeso i chi gysylltu â ni yn Gymraeg. Byddwn yn ymateb yn Gymraeg,
heb i hyn achosi oedi ychwanegol.

References

Visible links
1. https://www.gmc-uk.org/

Dear Dr Sandeep Bansal,

Your information request – IR1-4509636892

Thank you for your Email below dated 18^th July 2024.

How we will consider your request

We are going to consider your request under the Freedom of Information Act
2000 (FOIA). The FOIA gives us 20 working days to respond, but we’ll come
back to you as soon as we can.

Your request will be allocated to a member of the team. If you have any
queries please email [1][GMC request email].

Kind regards,

Information Access Team

General Medical Council

3 Hardman Street

Manchester

M3 3AW

show quoted sections

Dear Dr Bansal

Reference numbers: IR1-4513757894, IR1-4513708957, IR1-4513746003,
IR1-4513745890, IR1-4513746056, IR1-4513746112, IR1-4513575698,
IR1-4513575542, IR1-4516508303, IR1-4509636892, IR1-4524928907

I write further to previous correspondance with a response under the
Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA).

I am again applying a costs exemption to your requests. This is because of
the amount of data you’ve asked for and the work that would be involved.
Under FOIA there’s an exemption for requests where it would cost the
public authority more than £450 to process - equivalent to 18 hours. This
is based on an hourly rate of £25 per hour, which is set by the Freedom of
Information (Fees and Appropriate Limit) Regulations 2004. This amount is
called the ‘appropriate limit.’

To estimate the cost, we can take into account determining, locating,
retrieving and extracting the information requested.

Amalgamation of requests

When a public authority estimates whether the appropriate limit is likely
to be exceeded, it can include the costs of complying with two or more
requests so long as the requests are:

• Made for the same or similar information; and

• Received within any period of 60 consecutive working days.

I am including all your requests made on 19 July 2024 as well as the
requests made on 18, 23 and 25 July when determining if the ‘appropriate
limit’ is exceeded. Most are again requests for communications with
various organisations about physician associates and anaesthesia
associates. Other requests concern minutes of meetings with or about them,
our consultation concerning them, and finally communication with a
particular PA. The requests were all made within eight days.

Exemption

I appreciate that you have not resubmitted all your previous requests
concerning communications with various organisations and have focussed on
email communications. In my response of 19 July, I assumed that by GMC
‘leadership’ you meant the senior management team and our council,
amounting to 19 people. I also believed there might be a further 25 people
who provide support to them who might reasonably have sent communications
out in their name. I explained how I reached an estimate that it would
take 22 hours to determine if they had sent correspondance out which falls
into the scope of your request and then locate, retrieve and extract it
and that this would be over the appropriate limit. It stands to reason
that since you have omitted two organisations from your current requests,
the amount of time it would take the 44 people to determine, locate,
retrieve and extract the information in the scope of the request is less
than 22 hours. How much less is difficult to calculate but this part of
your request could still be over the appropriate limit because of the
number of staff involved and at least some of your requests concern all
email communications rather than just being about physician associates and
anaesthesia associates. 

However, in terms of justifying the exemption, there are other elements of
your request to consider.  I would anticipate it would take additional
hours to identify meeting minutes and associated communications and
documentation as well as the information you requested concerning our
survey about the regulation of physician associates and anaesthesia
associates.

Furthermore, one of your original requests was as follows:

Can you please provide me all un-redacted communication between BAPIO
and/or Medical Defence Shield (MDS)  in the last 4 years please.

If you can categorise the communications into two categories:

1) with GMC leadership team

2) Rest of GMC   

You amended it to six months, however since it refers to every GMC
employee I believe that this request, on its own, is over the appropriate
limit. The GMC employs over 1700 staff members. Taking the 1700 number,
even if it took each staff member only one minute each on average to
determine, locate, retrieve and extract the material in respect of each of
them, this alone would take over 28 hours.

Therefore, overall it is clear that the S12 applies when considering your
requests collectively in accordance with the amalgamation rules as set out
above.

Advice and assistance

One option would be narrow your request concerning communications with
external organisations to fewer GMC staff and/or organisations and exclude
every other type of request. Another option would be to focus only on one
of your other requests.

Your right to appeal

If you would like to appeal this decision to the Information Access
Manager, please set out your reasons in writing to [1][GMC request email].
Please note that we will only consider appeals received within 40 working
days of our response. You can also appeal to the Information Commissioner,
the regulator of the FOIA and DPA. Their online portal for freedom of
information requests is [2]here.

---

Kind Regards

Matt

Matthew McCoig-Lees

Senior Information Access Officer

Information Access Team

General Medical Council

3 Hardman Street

Manchester

M3 3AW

Email: [3][email address]

Website: [4]www.gmc-uk.org

Tel: 0161 923 6579

I sometimes work flexibly and therefore this email may reach you outside
of core working hours. I don’t expect you to respond outside of your own
working hours.

General Medical Council

We work with doctors, patients, and other stakeholders to support good,
safe patient care across the UK. We set the standards doctors and those
who train them need to meet, and help them achieve them. If there are
concerns these standards may not be met or that public confidence in
doctors may be at risk, we can investigate, and take action if needed.

This email may contain privileged or confidential information which should
only be used for the purpose for which it has been sent.

If you are not the addressee or have received this email in error, please
do not read, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on it or any
attachments. Please email the sender and then immediately delete it.

The General Medical Council is a charity registered in England and Wales
(1089278) and in Scotland (SC037750)

You are welcome to contact us in Welsh. We will respond in Welsh, without
this causing additional delay.

_________________________________________________________________

Cyngor Meddygol Cyffredinol

Rydym yn gweithio gyda meddygon, cleifion a rhanddeiliaid eraill i
gynorthwyo gofal da a diogel i gleifion ar draws y DU. Rydym yn gosod y
safonau y bydd angen i feddygon a’r rhai sy’n eu hyfforddi eu bodloni, ac
yn eu helpu i’w cyflawni. Os bydd pryderon efallai na fydd y safonau hyn
yn cael eu cyflawni neu y gallai hyder y cyhoedd mewn meddygon fod mewn
perygl, gallwn ymchwilio, a gweithredu os oes angen.

Efallai bod y neges e-bost hon yn cynnwys gwybodaeth freiniol neu
gyfrinachol, y dylid ei defnyddio at y diben y’i hanfonwyd yn unig.

Os nad chi yw’r derbynnydd neu os ydych chi wedi cael yr e-bost hwn mewn
camgymeriad, peidiwch â’i ddarllen, argraffu, ail-anfon, storio na
gweithredu mewn ffordd sy’n dibynnu arni neu unrhyw atodiadau os gwelwch
yn dda. Dylech anfon e-bost at yr anfonwr ac yna, ei ddileu ar unwaith.

Mae’r Cyngor Meddygol Cyffredinol yn elusen gofrestredig yng Nghymru a
Lloegr (1089278) ac yn Yr Alban (SC037750)

Mae croeso i chi gysylltu â ni yn Gymraeg. Byddwn yn ymateb yn Gymraeg,
heb i hyn achosi oedi ychwanegol.

References

Visible links
1. mailto:[gmc%20request%20email]
2. https://ico.org.uk/make-a-complaint/foi-...
3. mailto:[email%20address]
4. http://www.gmc-uk.org/

Dear Dr Bansal,

Your information request - IR1-4576940193

Thank you for your email dated 3 September.

How we will consider your request

We’re going to consider your request under the Freedom of Information Act
2000 (FOIA). The FOIA gives us 20 working days to respond, but we’ll come
back to you as soon as we can.

Yours sincerely

Information Access Team

General Medical Council

3 Hardman Street

Manchester

M3 3AW

From: Dr Sandeep Bansal <[FOI #1148248 email]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2024 11:21 AM
To: Matthew McCoig-Lees <[email address]>
Subject: Re: GMC FOI Responses

Dear Matthew McCoig-Lees, No worries I will refine this You have held
individual and group meetings with PAs in July 2024. Can I please have the
minutes of these meetings between 1st July 2024 to 18th July 2024 Yours
sincerely, Dr Sandeep Bansal

Dear Matthew McCoig-Lees,

No worries I will refine this

You have held individual and group meetings with PAs in July 2024.

Can I please have the minutes of these meetings between 1st July 2024 to 18th July 2024

Yours sincerely,

Dr Sandeep Bansal

show quoted sections

Dear Dr Bansal

I write further to previous correspondance.

As part of considering your request I, with the help of colleagues have
been considering your request for meeting minutes with PA’s.

They point our that engagement with and about PA’s is becoming business as
usual for the GMC as we move to become a multi professional regulator.
There are, therefore a very large number of teams who might theoretically
have had meetings within the scope of your request and they won’t be
stored centrally for me to identify.  

It seems possible to me that there are some specific meetings you have in
your mind. If that’s the case and you could tell me what you were thinking
of I could provide a response on that basis, rather than on the basis of
having to consider any possible meetings from any GMC staff.

It might also be helpful if you could let me know if you were referring to
meetings which only involved PA’s or were interested in meetings which
involved even one or both.  

I look forward to hearing from you.  

---

Kind Regards

Matt

Matthew McCoig-Lees

Senior Information Access Officer

Information Access Team

General Medical Council

3 Hardman Street

Manchester

M3 3AW

Email: [1][email address]

Website: [2]www.gmc-uk.org

Tel: 0161 923 6579

I sometimes work flexibly and therefore this email may reach you outside
of core working hours. I don’t expect you to respond outside of your own
working hours.

From: FOI
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2024 2:17 PM
To: Dr Sandeep Bansal <[FOI #1148248 email]>
Subject: RE: GMC FOI Responses

Dear Dr Bansal,

Your information request - IR1-4576940193

Thank you for your email dated 3 September.

How we will consider your request

We’re going to consider your request under the Freedom of Information Act
2000 (FOIA). The FOIA gives us 20 working days to respond, but we’ll come
back to you as soon as we can.

Yours sincerely

Information Access Team

General Medical Council

3 Hardman Street

Manchester

M3 3AW

From: Dr Sandeep Bansal <[3][FOI #1148248 email]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2024 11:21 AM
To: Matthew McCoig-Lees <[4][email address]>
Subject: Re: GMC FOI Responses

Dear Matthew McCoig-Lees, No worries I will refine this You have held
individual and group meetings with PAs in July 2024. Can I please have the
minutes of these meetings between 1st July 2024 to 18th July 2024 Yours
sincerely, Dr Sandeep Bansal

Dear Matthew McCoig-Lees,

No worries I will refine this

You have held individual and group meetings with PAs in July 2024.

Can I please have the minutes of these meetings between 1st July 2024 to 18th July 2024

Yours sincerely,

Dr Sandeep Bansal

show quoted sections

Dear Dr Bansal

I was wondering if you have had the opportunity to consider the below
correspondance?

---

Kind Regards

Matt

Matthew McCoig-Lees

Senior Information Access Officer

Information Access Team

General Medical Council

3 Hardman Street

Manchester

M3 3AW

Email: [1][email address]

Website: [2]www.gmc-uk.org

Tel: 0161 923 6579

I sometimes work flexibly and therefore this email may reach you outside
of core working hours. I don’t expect you to respond outside of your own
working hours.

From: Matthew McCoig-Lees
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2024 5:18 PM
To: Dr Sandeep Bansal <[FOI #1148248 email]>
Subject: RE: GMC FOI Responses

Dear Dr Bansal

I write further to previous correspondance.

As part of considering your request I, with the help of colleagues have
been considering your request for meeting minutes with PA’s.

They point our that engagement with and about PA’s is becoming business as
usual for the GMC as we move to become a multi professional regulator.
There are, therefore a very large number of teams who might theoretically
have had meetings within the scope of your request and they won’t be
stored centrally for me to identify.  

It seems possible to me that there are some specific meetings you have in
your mind. If that’s the case and you could tell me what you were thinking
of I could provide a response on that basis, rather than on the basis of
having to consider any possible meetings from any GMC staff.

It might also be helpful if you could let me know if you were referring to
meetings which only involved PA’s or were interested in meetings which
involved even one or both.  

I look forward to hearing from you.  

---

Kind Regards

Matt

Matthew McCoig-Lees

Senior Information Access Officer

Information Access Team

General Medical Council

3 Hardman Street

Manchester

M3 3AW

Email: [3][email address]

Website: [4]www.gmc-uk.org

Tel: 0161 923 6579

I sometimes work flexibly and therefore this email may reach you outside
of core working hours. I don’t expect you to respond outside of your own
working hours.

From: FOI
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2024 2:17 PM
To: Dr Sandeep Bansal <[5][FOI #1148248 email]>
Subject: RE: GMC FOI Responses

Dear Dr Bansal,

Your information request - IR1-4576940193

Thank you for your email dated 3 September.

How we will consider your request

We’re going to consider your request under the Freedom of Information Act
2000 (FOIA). The FOIA gives us 20 working days to respond, but we’ll come
back to you as soon as we can.

Yours sincerely

Information Access Team

General Medical Council

3 Hardman Street

Manchester

M3 3AW

From: Dr Sandeep Bansal <[6][FOI #1148248 email]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2024 11:21 AM
To: Matthew McCoig-Lees <[7][email address]>
Subject: Re: GMC FOI Responses

Dear Matthew McCoig-Lees, No worries I will refine this You have held
individual and group meetings with PAs in July 2024. Can I please have the
minutes of these meetings between 1st July 2024 to 18th July 2024 Yours
sincerely, Dr Sandeep Bansal

Dear Matthew McCoig-Lees,

No worries I will refine this

You have held individual and group meetings with PAs in July 2024.

Can I please have the minutes of these meetings between 1st July 2024 to 18th July 2024

Yours sincerely,

Dr Sandeep Bansal

show quoted sections

Dear Dr Bansal

IR1-4576940459 and IR1-4576940193

I write further to previous correspondance with a response under the
Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA).

IR1-4576940459

I am not going to provide any information in respect of this request as I
believe it meets the criteria of a vexatious request in accordance with
Section 14(1) of FOIA. This is the term used in the act and I don’t mean
to imply either that your request is not without a meaningful purpose or
that your intent is to cause me or anyone else at the GMC disruption,
irritation or distress.

The ICO’s [1]guidance (based on caselaw) states that S14 is appropriate if
the public authority can show that the amount of  time required to review
and prepare the information for disclosure would place a grossly
oppressive burden on the public authority.

The ICO consider the exemption would apply where:

i. the requester has asked for a substantial volume of information and

ii. the authority has real concerns about potentially exempt  information,
which it will be able to substantiate if asked to do  so by the
Commissioner and

iii. any potentially exempt information cannot easily be isolated  because
it is scattered throughout the requested material.

You asked for all un-redacted email communication between BAPIO and/or
Medical Defence Shield (MDS)  in the last 6 months with GMC leadership
team and the rest of GMC.

We have identified 888 unique emails within the scope of your request.
Around 170 have attachments. The emails I could easily bundle together
contain 8800 pages in total. I believe that this is a substantial volume
of information but I should be clear that since these emails are across
the whole of the GMC, I would imagine that very few of them relate to the
regulation of physician associates and anaesthesia associates.

I have real concerns that there is a lot of material which would attract
exemptions from disclosure. Four exemptions immediately spring to mind but
there may be others as well.

The first type of information that is present is information to which
Section 31(1)(g) leading to section 31(2)(d) would apply. This is because
the bundle contains fitness to practise investigations material which if
disclosed would prejudice our regulatory function. For example, there will
be information which has been provided from many different sources for the
purposes of us carrying out our statutory functions. Disclosure to the
world at large under FOIA might impact third parties willingness to share
information with us or to disclose serious allegations which may have an
impact on patient safety and public protection. The GMC has powers to
compel parties to provide information, but these powers may only be used
once an investigation is ongoing. Use of these powers may also
detrimentally impact our relationships with organisations or individuals
and may have serious impacts on the timescales of our investigations as
well as incur costs. If the GMC were to seek a court order to compel
disclosure of information, a court may accept that fear of disclosure of
sensitive information under FOIA is a reasonable reason for the
information not to be released to the GMC.  There may be other basis on
which it applies as well.

Secondly, the bundle would contain lots of personal information which
would attract the personal data exemption at Section 40. There would
likely be hundreds of names and other identifying information.

Investigations material might also contain court or coronial records which
would be exempt by Section 32, which is an absolute exemption not subject
to a public interest test.

It might also contain investigations material, the release of which would
or would be likely to endanger the physical or mental safety of an
individual which would attract the exemption at Section 38(1). This is
because our investigations material contains highly sensitive documents
and some people to whom they relate would be so impacted by publication
that it would be likely to impair their mental or physical health.

The information which is exempt would be scatted throughout the material,
especially in respect of personal data. Information may be ‘clustered’
together, but there is no easy way to determine where the clusters are. It
would have to be reviewed manually, albeit once names and email addresses
are identified, they could all be highlighted and redacted using standard
redaction software. However, to be clear there would be a lot more types
of material than just names and email addresses etc.   

In the context of your previous requests, I take your purpose to be to
increased transparency concerning the fact that the GMC will soon regulate
physician associates and anaesthesia associates.  I accept this is a
serious purpose. However, I do take account of the fact that almost none
of this material appears to be relevant to the issue and much material
would likely be withheld on the application of the above exemptions even
if we were to disclose a bundle of documents in any event. Even if it took
only one minute to prepare each page of the 8800 referred to above (which
is not all of the pages in scope of the request) for disclosure (and I
think it would take substantially longer) this would take over 146 hours
which I do think is an oppressive burden on the GMC which the limited
value in disclosure does not justify.

In order for Section 14 not to apply, I would suggest making a more
targeted request- such as focussing on a smaller cohort of people and/or
specific terms that we can search, possibly within the emails already
identified.

Your right to appeal

If you would like to appeal this decision to the Information Access
Manager, please set out your reasons in writing to [2][GMC request email].
Please note that we will only consider appeals received within 40 working
days of our response. You can also appeal to the Information Commissioner,
the regulator of the FOIA and DPA. Their online portal for freedom of
information requests is [3]here.

IR1-4576940193

I emailed you on 12 and 24 September and 2 October 2024 with no response.
We are therefore considering this request to be withdrawn.

If you provide some more clarification about what you are looking for we
will reconsider your request in line with our legal obligations.

---

Kind Regards

Matt

Matthew McCoig-Lees

Senior Information Access Officer

Information Access Team

General Medical Council

3 Hardman Street

Manchester

M3 3AW

Email: [4][email address]

Website: [5]www.gmc-uk.org

Tel: 0161 923 6579

I sometimes work flexibly and therefore this email may reach you outside
of core working hours. I don’t expect you to respond outside of your own
working hours.

General Medical Council

We work with doctors, patients, and other stakeholders to support good,
safe patient care across the UK. We set the standards doctors and those
who train them need to meet, and help them achieve them. If there are
concerns these standards may not be met or that public confidence in
doctors may be at risk, we can investigate, and take action if needed.

This email may contain privileged or confidential information which should
only be used for the purpose for which it has been sent.

If you are not the addressee or have received this email in error, please
do not read, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on it or any
attachments. Please email the sender and then immediately delete it.

The General Medical Council is a charity registered in England and Wales
(1089278) and in Scotland (SC037750)

You are welcome to contact us in Welsh. We will respond in Welsh, without
this causing additional delay.

_________________________________________________________________

Cyngor Meddygol Cyffredinol

Rydym yn gweithio gyda meddygon, cleifion a rhanddeiliaid eraill i
gynorthwyo gofal da a diogel i gleifion ar draws y DU. Rydym yn gosod y
safonau y bydd angen i feddygon a’r rhai sy’n eu hyfforddi eu bodloni, ac
yn eu helpu i’w cyflawni. Os bydd pryderon efallai na fydd y safonau hyn
yn cael eu cyflawni neu y gallai hyder y cyhoedd mewn meddygon fod mewn
perygl, gallwn ymchwilio, a gweithredu os oes angen.

Efallai bod y neges e-bost hon yn cynnwys gwybodaeth freiniol neu
gyfrinachol, y dylid ei defnyddio at y diben y’i hanfonwyd yn unig.

Os nad chi yw’r derbynnydd neu os ydych chi wedi cael yr e-bost hwn mewn
camgymeriad, peidiwch â’i ddarllen, argraffu, ail-anfon, storio na
gweithredu mewn ffordd sy’n dibynnu arni neu unrhyw atodiadau os gwelwch
yn dda. Dylech anfon e-bost at yr anfonwr ac yna, ei ddileu ar unwaith.

Mae’r Cyngor Meddygol Cyffredinol yn elusen gofrestredig yng Nghymru a
Lloegr (1089278) ac yn Yr Alban (SC037750)

Mae croeso i chi gysylltu â ni yn Gymraeg. Byddwn yn ymateb yn Gymraeg,
heb i hyn achosi oedi ychwanegol.

References

Visible links
1. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/foi...
2. mailto:[gmc%20request%20email]
3. https://ico.org.uk/make-a-complaint/foi-...
4. mailto:[email%20address]
5. http://www.gmc-uk.org/