Common Law Punishments

Waiting for an internal review by Crown Prosecution Service of their handling of this request.

Common Law Jurisdiction

Dear Crown Prosecution Service,

I was wondering if you can assist. I am looking for information on regards to the law of this land which is known as common law.

1. I want to know what punishments can and have been handed to paedophiles under Common Law and if under Common Law they can be sentenced to not go near schools etc after release from being locked up.

2. Is there a repository anywhere where we can read of Common Law trials and sentencings?

For the avoidance of doubt in regards to this request I have no interest in statute laws, acts etc.

"Bart Joseph"
Yours faithfully,

Common Law Jurisdiction

Freedom of Information Unit, Crown Prosecution Service

Dear Mr Bart

Freedom of Information Act 2000 Request – Reference number 6720

Thank you for your Freedom of Information (FOI) request which we received on 20 February 2017.

The FOI Act is a public disclosure regime, not a private regime. This means that any information disclosed under the FOI Act by definition becomes available to the wider public.

There is a 20 working day limit in which we are required to respond to requests.

The deadline for your request is 20 March 2017.

Yours sincerely

Information Management Unit
020 3357 0899
[email address]

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Andy Smith (Account suspended) left an annotation ()

Vexatious request by a "freeman" on the land.

Common Law Jurisdiction left an annotation ()

Does Andy Smith exist? Is he part of the establishment that takes offence to the truth being asked?

Andy Smith (Account suspended) left an annotation ()

Dear Bart Joseph aka Common Law Jurisdiction,

I assure you that I exist, in common law, Roman-Dutch law and every other law that there is.

Common Law Jurisdiction left an annotation ()

Good to know Andy. What is your definition of vexatious? Perhaps a local council deliberately misinterpreting what people ask or answering a different question to that which was asked?

Anti freeman left an annotation ()

Good on you Andy, this idiot and his ilk are a complete waste of time

Common Law Jurisdiction left an annotation ()

Or are we actually some of the ones that will help save you from the establishment?

Believe it or not there is something very sinister afoot.

Anti freeman left an annotation ()

Save us from what? From your requests you seem to want to save non tax paying paedophiles

Becky Bbear left an annotation ()

Interested readers:

Given the Medieval origins of Common Law, which had very different perspectives on rape/sexual assault, the questions asked have no easy answer.

Within marriage, according to Church Law, rape did not exist - as the woman on marriage 'surrendered' her body to her husband. As Chauser's 'Wife of Bath says -

'Why else should men into their ledgers set
That every man yield to his wife her debt?
And how can he pay this emolument
Unless he use his simple instrument'?

The concept of pedophilia is to a degree even worse in Medieval times, since the age of 'consent' was very different too and marriages between what we consider children and other children/adults was an accepted part of society. Also worth noting that in Roman times brothels provided actual infants to customers as part of their 'services' - different times, different laws, different social 'norms'.

Considering the above, punishments would have been determined under the laws of property rather than personal freedoms/rights as understood in a modern society - meaning fines or the same penalties as for theft at that point in history, basically branding, mutilation or death.

Interestingly, similar penalties existed for non-payment of taxes - meaning that under Common Law a Freeman on the Land not paying their taxes to the Crown could lose a hand or hands. Those laws were thankfully repealed long ago, fortunately for the FOTL community as its believers can obviously still type.

I'm with Andy on this one, vexatious and a request of no real merit or even understanding of social history.

Becky

Common Law Jurisdiction left an annotation ()

With article 61 of Magna Carta currently in force though you can lawfully refuse to pay taxes.

Quite frankly some of our modern day attitudes are what is wrong and if those deriding people asking probing questions stopped and asked for a minute why we are asking them, you might realise our hearts are firmly in the right place.

Statute law is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

This also is not a vexatious request. It is a request designed to deepen my learning and others.

Not sure why you are so concerned about whether my request is vexatious anyway as even if it was, I don't see how it affects you.

For clarity it is not vexatious.

Freedom of Information Unit, Crown Prosecution Service

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Bart

Freedom of Information Act 2000 Request – Reference 6720

Please see the attached response to your Freedom of Information request.

Yours sincerely

Information Management Advisor
Information Management Unit
020 3357 0899
[CPS request email]

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Becky Bbear left an annotation ()

Bart:

Not strictly an accurate application of Magna Carta's Article 61, unless the 25 Barons take up arms against the Crown and secure agreement that a particular action or tax is unfair they and everyone else still have to pay their taxes.

The operative wording being -

'if we, or our justiciar, or our bailiffs or any one of our servants offend in any way against anyone or transgress any of the articles of the peace or the security and the offence be notified to four of the aforesaid twenty-five barons, those four barons shall come to us, or to our justiciar if we are out of the kingdom, and, laying the transgression before us, shall petition us to have that transgression corrected without delay. And if we do not correct the transgression, or if we are out of the kingdom, if our justiciar does not correct it, within forty days, reckoning from the time it was brought to our notice or to that of our justiciar if we were out of the kingdom, the aforesaid four barons shall refer that case to the rest of the twenty-five barons and those twenty-five barons together with the community of the whole land shall distrain and distress us in every way they can, namely, by seizing castles, lands, possessions, and in such other ways as they can, saving our person and the persons of our queen and our children, until, in their opinion, amends have been made; and when amends have been made, they shall obey us as they did before. And let anyone in the land who wishes take an oath to obey the orders of the said twenty-five barons for the execution of all the aforesaid matters, and with them to distress us as much as he can, and we publicly and freely give anyone leave to take the oath who wishes to take it and we will never prohibit anyone from taking it'.

Article 61 certainly allows those able to do so to take oath in support of the 25 Barons, but equally certainly grants no-one else authority to take up arms against the Crown or refuse to pay taxes.

The 'lawful rebellion' would therefore be on the part of the 25 Barons and their supporters, against the Crown and its supporters - in effect Civil War until one side or the other won the argument.

'let anyone in the land who wishes take an oath to obey the orders of the said twenty-five barons for the execution of all the aforesaid matters, and with them to distress us as much as he can'.

Note the reference to 'take an oath to obey the orders of the said 25 Barons'...not for the community of the land (the 'common folk) to act by themselves...kind of a key point from the FOTL perspective.

In context, vexatious simply referred to the fact that these arguments/theories have been tested many times through WDTK and other forums - with exactly the same result each time and with exactly the same degree of misunderstanding of what Magna Carter actually achieved.

Repeating such requests therefore becomes an exercise in wasting an Authority's time considering and responding to repeated requests (vexing them) - which in theory should simply be signposted to any one of the responses already given as 'information already reasonably available' in the public domain on WDTK.

Becky

Common Law Jurisdiction left an annotation ()

But have you consulted the 25 barons?

Common Law Jurisdiction left an annotation ()

Additionally with taxes with the way they are currently charged under statute law, they only apply to those who contract to be a member of the society known I think as the United Kingdom Corporation. Additionally the Council Tax act although very deceitfully worded when you get to the bottom of it only applies to business premises and not residential.

To be honest I find it strange that people even want to side with the establishment. They are responsible for so much suffering and death here and throughout the world. Do you want to fund that?

That's before we even get started on the legal name fraud and c'est que vie trust funds.

I am all in favour of giving to help those less well off than me as that is morally right. I am not against tax to make myself rich. True richness comes from within. What I don't agree with is funding lavish lifestyles for the high ups and working to pay taxes which are used to kill people.

Common Law Jurisdiction left an annotation ()

the twenty-five barons and those twenty-five barons together with the community of the whole land shall distrain and distress us in every way they can, namely, by seizing castles, lands, possessions

There is the order so unless the barons order not to do it we can seize stuff. That would include taxes. If the barons ordered we will do it this way rather than the standard default way then yes maybe we would have to pay taxes that were grounded in common law.

Common Law Jurisdiction

Dear Crown Prosecution Service,

Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.

I am writing to request an internal review of Crown Prosecution Service's handling of my FOI request 'Common Law Punishments'.

I do thank you for the information provided, however as it relates to legalities which only have any force if the accused consents then, it isn't really relevant.

I am also surprised that given that this is a common law jurisdiction that the Crown Prosecution Service do not have any information about how to deal with such crimes under the law of the land and not under admirality law.

A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/c...

Yours faithfully,
Bart
Common Law Jurisdiction

Becky Bbear left an annotation ()

Bart:

Quote - 'and, laying the transgression before us, shall petition us to have that transgression corrected without delay'

Have the Barons done that - meaning have they petitioned (asked) or objected? Kind of a moot point anyway, since clause 61 of Magna Carta was repealed long ago and ceased to apply. I've given the details of the only three clauses still in effect in other threads, so no point in repeating here - check my wall/profile for details.

C'est que vie 1666 is a whole other historical law - which formed the foundation of the still existing 'seven year' principle, under which after seven years without 'proof of life' a person can be declared 'legally dead' by the Courts and their assets/property distributed in accordance with any Will, or claimed by surviving relatives/the Crown.

It has no connection to taxation, except as far as Inheritance Tax applies - and even that applies only where the value of an Estate is over a certain (quite high) threshold, meaning it doesn't apply to the vast majority of 'ordinary' people anyway.

I support your right to believe whatever you choose however, so good luck with your future researches.

Becky

Common Law Jurisdiction left an annotation ()

The Barons have petitioned. Cestui qui vie relates to trust funds. it was more of an illustration of what sort of con the elite have going and not specific to taxation. The 1700 and odd version is the most recent, the 1666 one has been repealed along I think with a 1500 and odd one.

Magna Carta cannot be repealed it had a clause written in to it preventing that. You are right that a repeal was issued, but it isn't valid as our ancestors had the foresight to put in a clause to block said repeal .

I do enjoy the debate though. It is always good for learning. I would be lying if I said I understood it all perfectly. What I can see is that we are all being taken for a ride.

Dave Townsend left an annotation ()

Dear Sir,
I have long been fascinated by medieval and find the reigns of King Henry II and his sons particularly worthy of study. Imagine my excitement when I learnt that 25 eye-witnesses to the tumultuous events of 1214-1215 were still alive and able to petition. After all, as no other barons have ever been appointed, only those specified within the Magna Carta would be able to do. Thus, I was hoping if you could tel me which of the barons you are or, if not, if you could put me in contact with them as I have questions as to the role of William Marshal that I should be fascinated to have answered. For your assistance, these are the names of the specified barons.
Eustace de Vesci, Robert de Ros, Richard de Percy, William de Mowbray. Roger de Montbegon, John FitzRobert, William de Forz, John de Lacy, Saer de Quincy, Earl of Winchester, Richard de Montfichet, William de Huntingfield, Roger Bigod and Hugh Bigod, Robert de Vere, Geoffrey de Mandeville. Henry de Bohun, Richard de Clare and Gilbert de Clare, William D'Albini, Robert Fitzwalter, William Hardel. William de Lanvallei, William Malet, William Marshall II and Geoffrey de Say.
Mind you, I have had a thought. They would probably count as an official body so I could always waste everybody's time by submitting an asinine FOIA request. :-)

Common Law Jurisdiction left an annotation ()

It's been passed down obviously

Dave Townsend left an annotation ()

Oh, really? Out of curiosity, as an expert in constitutional law, I was wondering if you could specify the means in which it was passed down? I am fairly certain that there is no such mechanism contained within the Magna Carta. I am moderately convinced that this has not been handed down by family descent or by individual nomination by previous holders and I know there has been no suitable electoral college established. So, if I might make my own Information Request, how do you say these powers were passed down and who do you say are now the 25 nominated barons? After all, you have claimed that they have petitioned. I would like to know their identities, the form of the petition and exactly to whom it was submitted? Given that you are preaching the right to Lawful Rebellion, I rather feel that this is the least that would be needed.

Freedom of Information Unit, Crown Prosecution Service

Freedom of Information Request - Internal Review

Thank you for your email dated 17 March requesting an internal review of our response to your FOI request reference 6720.

Your email has been allocated the reference IR.6532.17. The internal review will be assigned to a Crown Prosecution Service official who was not involved with the original decision.

The due date for this response is 18 April 2017.

We expect to complete internal reviews within 20 working days, although more complex cases may take longer. We will however endeavour to respond to you promptly.

Yours sincerely

Information Management Unit
020 3357 0899

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Common Law Jurisdiction left an annotation ()

There is adequate documentation across the web of how it has been passed down. If you are anything other than one of the regular establishment trolls or pieces of AI software that auto reply to those who question the establishment throughout the web then I suggest you do research. Without wanting to appear rude I am asking for the truth here and am not here to get in to arguments to attempt to deflect me from getting the information I want. Those who want to understand article 61 can find it explained far better on purpose built websites than I could explain it.

Common Law Jurisdiction left an annotation ()

Much like the King signed as himself, but onbehalf of the crown so that it was binding upon his sucessors so the Barons signed as the Baronship. Succession is part of the law.

One good point though is that in reality the only one fit to make law is the one who has lived for ever and will live for ever, God, Yahweh.

Freedom of Information Unit, Crown Prosecution Service

1 Attachment

Dear Sirs,

Please find attached your internal review response.

Yours sincerely

Information Management Unit
020 3357 0899

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Dave Townsend left an annotation ()

Ah well, if that is the level of your debate, I will pick up my toys and go play with my Establishment troll, AI, Lizardmen, MiB chums at NWO House.
My father once told me to never try to talk over the voices in another person's head, they are louder. :-)

Becky Bbear left an annotation ()

Bart:

Start here for the general background and then search the the index at the Bodleian Library for surviving historic records of Common law cases prior to 1762.

.https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/about-the-j....

May also be useful to search www.legislation.gov.uk not so much for the Statute Law available, but for the references within Statutes to earlier Common Law.

Outside the above and the National Archives/British Library there is no single central repository for Historic Common Law cases - although you may find references to famous example cases in the 'Year Books' or 'Law Reports held at many Central Reference Libraries.

Good hunting.

Becky

Common Law Jurisdiction left an annotation ()

Thank you Becky. A much better reply than the CPS. Usual rubbish from them

Common Law Jurisdiction

Dear Freedom of Information Unit,

So to get this straight you are saying the Crown Prosecution Service don't know how to deal with paedophile prosecutions in line with the law of the land.

Perhaps then you should shut down as you clearly aren't fit for purpose?

Yours sincerely,
Bart
Common Law Jurisdiction

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