Citizen or Monarch

R Austin made this Freedom of Information request to Attorney General's Office

This request has been closed to new correspondence from the public body. Contact us if you think it ought be re-opened.

The request was refused by Attorney General's Office.

Dear Attorney General's Office,

1. Can you please clarify the position of our Sovereign Queen Elizabeth 1st and 2nd post-Lisbon Treaty, in relation to the country and her subjects? Is HM now a citizen of the EU, subject to the same laws and privileges as any other citizen, or are exemptions in place? Has this constitutional change altered her formal title?

I would be most grateful if you could provide as full an answer as possible.

2. Following the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty by our Sovereign where does a member of the public stand who has sworn a solemn oath as a former member of HM Armed Forces to his Sovereign, PRE-Lisbon Treaty? To clarify, the Solemn Oath is:

"I, NAME, do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God."

3. Can you confirm which Law(s) are now being referred to in this Solemn Oath POST-Lisbon Treaty?

4. Is it the case that all Solemn Oaths, as above, made specifically to our Sovereign Queen pre-Lisbon Treaty are now annulled and require to be re-taken?

Yours faithfully,

R Austin

James Ross, Attorney General's Office

Dear Mr Austin

Thank you for your email to the Attorney Generals Office making a
request under the Freedom of Information Act.

You have requested:

1. Can you please clarify the position of our Sovereign Queen
Elizabeth 1st and 2nd post-Lisbon Treaty, in relation to the
country and her subjects? Is HM now a citizen of the EU, subject to
the same laws and privileges as any other citizen, or are
exemptions in place? Has this constitutional change altered her
formal title?

I would be most grateful if you could provide as full an answer as
possible.

2. Following the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty by our Sovereign
where does a member of the public stand who has sworn a solemn oath
as a former member of HM Armed Forces to his Sovereign, PRE-Lisbon
Treaty? To clarify, the Solemn Oath is:

"I, NAME, do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance
to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according
to law. So help me God."

3. Can you confirm which Law(s) are now being referred to in this
Solemn Oath POST-Lisbon Treaty?

4. Is it the case that all Solemn Oaths, as above, made
specifically to our Sovereign Queen pre-Lisbon Treaty are now
annulled and require to be re-taken?

Your request is one of seeking advice and not information and therefore
has not been treated under the Freedom of Information Act.

The Attorney General is principal legal advisor to government and as
such is unable to offer legal advice or assistance to individuals and
unfortunately we are unable to assist with your query.

I can only suggest that you either seek your own independent legal
advice or contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau or Law Centre.

I am sorry to say that this office is unable to help you further.

Yours sincerely

James Ross
Freedom of Information Officer

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Dear James Ross,

Thank you for your response.

There seems to be some confusion between the definitions of 'advice' and 'information'. I require INFORMATION and not advice.

I consider that I am being frustrated in my attempts to secure public INFORMATION based upon your interpretation as being a request for advice.

Please respond to my FOI request with the firm understanding that I seek INFORMATION (hardcopy or digital) held by the Attorney General or his office which will clarify the constitutional role of our Sovereign Queen Elizabeth 1st and 2nd, or if this is not possible, to provide INFORMATION clarification of this role as understood by the Attorney General or his office. This INFORMATION may be formal communications by the Attorney General (as Chief Legal Adviser to the Government, Minister, and guardian of the public interest) or his office to any public official or body (such as the Prime Minister, any Government Ministers, any Ministerial Departments, Local Authorities, or any other public bodies, in which you have been asked to clarify this matter post-Lisbon Treaty. I do not require INFORMATION from ALL these bodies but I am sure you can exercise your undoubted intelligence to select sufficient documents held by the Office of the Attorney General that will provide a clear answer to my enquiry.

If you are unable to select such documentation which will provide such INFORMATION as will satisfy my request I then insist that you forward a list of documentation you hold for me to choose from.

If you feel that the Attorney General or his office is exempt, or not subject to, the Freedom of Information Act 2000 I would very much appreciate it if you could communicate evidence confirming your exemption? I should advise I am seeking clarification with the relevant authority on the position of the Attorney General, and his office, with regard to any exempted FOI status.

If you still maintain your stance that this is a request for 'advice' rather than 'INFORMATION' I will request an Internal Review, and if that is not sufficient a formal complaint will be submitted.

I refer you to a speech given by the Attorney General on 19th January 2010 that is posted on your website. The speech is titled 'Attorney General: The Role of the Attorney general in the 21st Century'? One extract should be of particular relevance here as an opportunity to 'enhance public confidence in the role of Attorney General'.

Quoted:
"I do not underestimate the need to enhance public confidence in the role of Attorney General; nor do I underestimate the size of the task. But it is not a task that is completed simply by a change in the law, or the drafting of a protocol. It is hard and it takes time; it can be created slowly over time and lost in a moment. It is won by honest and transparent dealing and kept in the same way. It is not the taking of difficult or controversial decisions that loses confidence; that after all is what Government is for; it is when those decisions are taken for the wrong reasons or when the public fear that the decision maker is not being straight with them that the confidence is lost."

I look forward to your response with much anticipation of as full and forthright an answer to my request as possible.

Yours sincerely,

R Austin

James Ross, Attorney General's Office

Dear Mr Austin

Before I can consider your request I need to seek some clarification
from you.

Could you please confirm that your request is for:

"Any information we hold on the constitutional position of The Queen
post-Lisbon Treaty including any information on whether: (a) she is a
citizen of the EU, (b) her formal title has altered, (c) there is any
effect on persons who have sworn a solemn oath pre-Lisbon Treaty, (d)
any laws are now referred to in the solemn oath post-Lisbon Treaty; and
(e) solemn oaths made pre-Lisbon Treaty are annulled and required to be
re-taken."

Yours sincerely

James Ross
Freedom of Information Officer

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To: James Ross
Subject: RE: Freedom of Information request - Citizen or Monarch

Dear James Ross,

Thank you for your timely response however I feel that a fairly straightforward request for information is being made more complex
than is necessary. In reply I provide the following for
clarification.

I confirm my request is for:

a) Copies of sufficient documentation or other information or communications held by the Attorney General's Office that will clearly define the current constitutional position of Her Majesty The Queen, Elizabeth 1st and 2nd, post-Lisbon Treaty, including information, documentation or communications that will clarify among other things:

b) Whether she is a citizen of the EU, or Sovereign of this land. Within this query, of course, is the constitutional question of supremacy between her role as Sovereign and her post-Lisbon Treaty position as an EU citizen that is central to my request. This issue is clearly implied in my wider request. If she is indeed a Sovereign AND citizen, which takes precedence under the Lisbon Treaty and our own constitutional system? Please provide information you hold that satisfies this query point.

c) Whether her formal title has altered post-Lisbon Treaty.

d) Whether persons having sworn an oath of allegiance to our Sovereign and heirs and successors (pre-Lison Treaty)will be legally or otherwise affected by any change in status or constitutional identity of aforementioned Sovereign post-Lisbon Treaty.

e) What Laws are now being referred to in the Oath of Allegiance, and with the adoption of new legal obligation and supremacy from the EU whether this in effect invalidates my Oath made pre-Lisbon Treaty as a member of HM Armed Forces. In effect, I swore my Oath on a set of Laws in the 1980's and whether the affect on these Laws since ratification has been so dramatic as to render the Oath I swore invalid now.

f) Whether, in light of changed circumstances as a result of our previous Government's ratification of the Lisbon Treaty, I as a former serving soldier will need to renew my Oath of Allegiance to accommodate such constitutional, legal, material and any other
changes that may have wholly or partly affected my original Oath.

I trust this assists you in dealing with my information request and I look forward to your response?

Yours sincerely,

R Austin

Dear James Ross,

Further to my earlier reply I also reaffirm that I am seeking 'recorded information' held by the Attorney General's Office that will deal with the points of my query, in accordance with the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

In light of the Attorney General's desire for greater public transparency, any additional advice that is offered by your office as a courteousy would also be gratefully received.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

R Austin

James Ross, Attorney General's Office

Dear Mr Austin

Thank you for confirming your Freedom of Information request.

You have requested:

"a) Copies of sufficient documentation or other information or
communications held by the Attorney General's Office that will
clearly define the current constitutional position of Her Majesty
The Queen, Elizabeth 1st and 2nd, post-Lisbon Treaty, including
information, documentation or communications that will clarify
among other things:

b) Whether she is a citizen of the EU, or Sovereign of this land.
Within this query, of course, is the constitutional question of
supremacy between her role as Sovereign and her post-Lisbon Treaty
position as an EU citizen that is central to my request. This issue
is clearly implied in my wider request. If she is indeed a
Sovereign AND citizen, which takes precedence under the Lisbon
Treaty and our own constitutional system? Please provide
information you hold that satisfies this query point.

c) Whether her formal title has altered post-Lisbon Treaty.

d) Whether persons having sworn an oath of allegiance to our
Sovereign and heirs and successors (pre-Lison Treaty)will be
legally or otherwise affected by any change in status or
constitutional identity of aforementioned Sovereign post-Lisbon
Treaty.

e) What Laws are now being referred to in the Oath of Allegiance,
and with the adoption of new legal obligation and supremacy from
the EU whether this in effect invalidates my Oath made pre-Lisbon
Treaty as a member of HM Armed Forces. In effect, I swore my Oath
on a set of Laws in the 1980's and whether the affect on these Laws
since ratification has been so dramatic as to render the Oath I
swore invalid now.

f) Whether, in light of changed circumstances as a result of our
previous Government's ratification of the Lisbon Treaty, I as a
former serving soldier will need to renew my Oath of Allegiance to
accommodate such constitutional, legal, material and any other
changes that may have wholly or partly affected my original Oath."

I will write to you again, once your request has been considered, I am
aiming to send you a substantive reply by 4 August, I will of course
reply sooner if I am able.

Yours sincerely

James Ross
Freedom of Information Officer

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James Ross, Attorney General's Office

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Austin

Please find attached a copy of our response to your recent Freedom of
Information request.

Regards

James Ross
Freedom of Information Officer

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R Austin left an annotation ()

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchUK/Queena...

I quote:

"People often wonder whether laws apply to The Queen, since they are made in her name.

Given the historical development of the Sovereign as the 'Fount of Justice', civil and criminal proceedings cannot be taken against the Sovereign as a person under UK law. Acts of Parliament do not apply to The Queen in her personal capacity unless they are expressly stated to do so.

However, The Queen is careful to ensure that all her activities in her personal capacity are carried out in strict accordance with the law.

Under the Crown Proceedings Act (1947), civil proceedings can be taken against the Crown in its public capacity (this usually means proceedings against government departments and agencies, as the elected Government governs in The Queen's name).

In the case of European Union law, laws are enforced in the United Kingdom through the United Kingdom's national courts. There is therefore no machinery by which European law can be applied to The Queen in her personal capacity.

However, it makes no difference that there is no such mechanism, as The Queen will in any event scrupulously observe the requirements of EU law.

As a national of the United Kingdom, The Queen is a citizen of the European Union, but that in no way affects her prerogatives and responsibilities as the Sovereign."

Amazing how we can force their hand when we kick the door enough times. :)

A British National, a Citizen of the EUSSR, and apparently still our Sovereign? Impossible if we still are operating under the constitution that gives her her royal protection from the Laws of the land! Look up any legal dictionary for the definitions of these terms. Oh what a wicked web we weave when we set out to deceive!

Further, in a response I had in March 2011 from Henry Bellingham, MP and Minister for Africa the United Nations Sovereign Territories and Conflict Areas (via my own sad excuse for an MP):

"The formal title of The Queen is Her majesty Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Her Majesty's position as Constitutional Head of State of the United Kingdom has not (NOT is underlined in the original letter) changed with entry into force of the Lisbon Treaty"

This seems to disagree with current legislation where her formal title apparently still includes the word 'Sovereign' and also 'Defender of the faith'. Hmmm

Please fell free to correct this as I didn't bother looking into her former title any further as I'm too occupied with what is happening now.

Bellingham's reply contains no references or supporting evidence therefore I must assume it is just opinion however he declares that "I am replying as Minister responsible for Protocol matters".

Funny this responsible Minister simply 'forgot' to mention that she is an EU citizen and apparently now also a British national. Strange that...or are they making it all up as they go along?

People interested in this 'minor' issue of us no longer having a sovereign monarch should look at the following legislation for clarification:

Royal and Parliamentary Titles Act 1927 (and amendments)

Contextual amendments include:

Royal Titles Act 1953
UK Public General Act 1950 c.6
UK Public General Act 1977 c.18
Interpretation Act 1978

My own research since this FOI has confirmed that we are being duped, lied to, conned, and I would even throw the word defrauded in there too, on a scale that beggars belief. Read the Bill of Rights, Act of Settlement, Act of Union and Magna Carta! Does this also mean that Scotland is now a separate country now that we are no longer a united kingdom? What the person who was formally my queen and her team of little helpers are doing here is unlawful and unconstitutional and completely in their own narrow interests. I have my own well-founded reasons based on my ongoing research to have the opinion that her reason for desperately wanting to stay above the law is that we'd need to build a new prison for her family members if we were allowed to investigate them and have them before a Common Law jury.

Please note this is NOT a political rant. It is a statement of hard fact that may just be unpalatable for some to absorb.

A final point. If we no longer have a Sovereign Monarch do we have an abandoned throne? If so, under whose authority do the govt, the civil service, the army, the police, the judiciary, local councils, HMRC etc etc all operate and order us around? It begins with E and ends in U and what we have here is just smoke and mirrors to keep us plebs complacent while the busy little termites are occupied undermining the foundation of everything that makes Britain what it was. Does this now also technically nullify all legislation imposed on us by the Sovereign's authority?

In light of what I have discovered from my own research/work I have joined the British Constitution Group as I intend to have these people banged up for life for what they've done to this country and our people. We certainly can't rely on our constitutional representatives to step up to the plate. If no-one who should do the job is willing to do it then its time for us to do it ourselves....Lawful Rebellion

www.bcgroup.org.uk

Its out duty under Magna Carta and our obligation to future generations. No politics here, its constitutional.

Have fun with this one guys...

R Austin left an annotation ()

Oh yeah, and now we know why the Attorney General's Office was so reluctant to answer such a simple FOI request.