CCTV Enforcement planning listed conservation other
Dear Wirral Metropolitan Borough Council,
Regarding the CCTV cameras installed at each of the following locations in Birkenhead -
1) on the police station at its corner of Chester Street and Mortimer Street
2) on the 3 sides of the magistrates court buildings (chester street, mortimer street and brandon street).
3) on a large pole set into the pavement in front of 34 Hamilton Square near to the corner with Price Street
4) on the corner of 63 hamilton square
5) on 99-105 Argyle Street CH41 6AD (camera at its corner with back oliver street)
6) on the Pacific Road Centre
7) on the birkenhead town hall at the assembly rooms entrance on brandon street
8) and also, on Wallasey town hall
Please confirm for each individually -
a) What consideration and informal and formal action the council as the local planning authority has taken relating to any relevant lack of planning permission, listed building consent, conservation area consent and any other required permission or approval.
b) Where no such relevant consideration and action has been taken regarding any relevant lack of required permission, consent or approval then detail as to why.
c) Where such relevant action has been taken but such CCTV cameras remain and lack such relevant required permission, consent or approval, then detail as to what plans for further action the council has to remedy this.
d) In relation to the council owned or operated buildings in the list and which have had or still have CCTV cameras while lacking such relevant required permission, consent or approval, then detail of any consideration and decision not to seek it and any detail about later discovering or reviewing that they had been installed without.
Yours faithfully,
John Jones
We acknowledge receipt of your request for information.
Please note that whilst we aim to comply with the legislative timescales, we are currently dealing with a very high volume of requests which will lead to a delay in our response times. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause. You may wish to check our website www.wirral.gov.uk to see if the information you require is currently published and available online.
The Information Management service will be closed over the Christmas period from 22 December 2023 - 2 January 2024. Any request received after Monday 27 November 2023 is likely to be delayed as a result of this holiday period.
Your patience is appreciated.
Many Thanks
Emma Murphy
Information Management Officer
Dear Wirral Metropolitan Borough Council,
Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.
I am writing to request an internal review of Wirral Metropolitan Borough Council's handling of my FOI request 'CCTV Enforcement planning listed conservation other'.
Reasons - 25 working days have now passed since the request and there has been no substantive response.
A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/c...
Yours faithfully,
John Jones
Dear Mr Jones
In response to your enquiry, we can advise as follows:
a) What consideration and informal and formal action the council as the
local planning authority has taken relating to any relevant lack of
planning permission, listed building consent, conservation area consent
and any other required permission or approval.
The potential breaches of planning control referred to have not been
brought to the Planning Department’s attention prior to receipt of your
FOI request. These matters therefore have not been investigated
previously.
b) Where no such relevant consideration and action has been taken
regarding any relevant lack of required permission, consent or approval
then detail as to why.
As above.
c) Where such relevant action has been taken but such CCTV cameras remain
and lack such relevant required permission, consent or approval, then
detail as to what plans for further action the council has to remedy this.
These matters have been passed to the Council’s Planning Enforcement team
to investigate whether there has been a breach of planning control. More
information about how we go about investigating matters such as this can
be found in the Council’s Planning Enforcement policy here:
[1]https://www.wirral.gov.uk/planning-and-b...
d) In relation to the council owned or operated buildings in the list and
which have had or still have CCTV cameras while lacking such relevant
required permission, consent or approval, then detail of any consideration
and decision not to seek it and any detail about later discovering or
reviewing that they had been installed without.
As part of the Planning Enforcement investigations that will now commence,
the Planning Enforcement team will enter into discussions with the
Council’s Asset management team to seek to resolve any breaches of
planning control that are identified.
Yours sincerely
Lynette Paterson
Principal Information Management Officer
Finance – Digital and Improvement
Wirral Council
PO Box 290
Brighton Street
Wallasey
CH27 9FQ
Email: [2][Wirral Borough Council request email]
Visit our website: [3]www.wirral.gov.uk
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
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References
Visible links
1. https://www.wirral.gov.uk/planning-and-b...
2. mailto:[Wirral Borough Council request email]
3. http://www.wirral.gov.uk/
Dear InfoMgr, FinDMT,
Thank you.
Is there any process, policy, form, handbook or similar for the council's asset management team to consider the need for planning permission before carrying out or ordering works on council properties generally, and specifically on two historic listed town halls, including in a conservation area?
Yours sincerely,
John Jones
Dear Mr Jones,
I’ve opened new cases for the issues you have raised. I am the case
officer unless otherwise mentioned:
ENF/24/00013- Police Station
ENF/24/00014- Wirral Magistrates court
ENF/24/00015- Land outside 34 Hamilton Square- no planning permission
required as Permitted Development under legislation GPDO (2015), schedule
2, Part 12, case closed.
ENGF/19/00464 63 Hamilton Square, case already open regarding the property
referred to Fay McMahon
ENF/24/00017 Old Post Office, Argyle Street
ENF/24/00018 Pacific Road Centre
ENF/24/00019 Birkenhead Town Hall
ENF/24/00020 Wallasey Town Hall
Kind regards
Brendan Greenfield
Senior Planning Enforcement Officer
Regeneration and Place Directorate
Wirral Council
PO Box 290
Brighton Street
Wallasey
CH27 9FQ
T: 0151 691 8457
E: [email address]
Web: www.wirral.gov.uk
From: Kellett, Sue <[1][email address]> On Behalf Of InfoMgr,
FinDMT
Sent: 05 January 2024 11:14
To: Lacey, Steven J. <[2][email address]>
Cc: Lawless, Kathleen <[3][email address]>; InfoMgr, FinDMT
<[4][Wirral Borough Council request email]>
Subject: Please Respond: FOIA | CCTV Enforcement planning listed
conservation other | John Jones | 1675162 | DUE 080124
Hi
Please see the FOI below which is due on 8 January 2024. Please provide a
response to [5][Wirral Borough Council request email] without delay.
Regards
FOI Team
Dear Greenfield, Brendan,
Thank you.
For -
ENF/24/00015- Land outside 34 Hamilton Square
You say -
no planning permission
required as Permitted Development under legislation GPDO (2015), schedule
2, Part 12, case closed.
Before I look at it in a lot of detail including listed and conservation, I think this anyway exceeds 4 meters tall so is not permitted under 2. 12. Class A (a) and as it is CCTV it is not similar enough to the listed items to be permitted under 2. 12. Class A (b). Please could you explain?
Yours sincerely,
John Jones
Hello John,
I would say a pole with a CCTV camera on is visually similar to a lamp standard, which is one of the items listed items under 2. 12. Class A (b), with similar structures being listed.
I'm happy to discuss further with my colleagues if you disagree?
Kind regards
Brendan Greenfield
Senior Planning Enforcement Officer
Regeneration and Place Directorate
Wirral Council
PO Box 290
Brighton Street
Wallasey
CH27 9FQ
T: 0151 691 8457
E: [email address]
Web: www.wirral.gov.uk
Dear Greenfield, Brendan,
Thank you.
If you could discuss with your colleagues and confirm the Council's considered view please. While both are pole mounted my lay person thought would be lamps and cameras differ quite a lot in purpose and performance.
Yours sincerely,
John Jones
Hello John,
Had a discussion with my manager and he's in agreement that they would both be permitted development. Although lighting and provision of CCTV in public areas are different purposes they both fall under the provision of local authorities providing a public service, which is the purpose of this section of the permitted development legislation.
Kind regards
Brendan Greenfield
Senior Planning Enforcement Officer
Regeneration and Place Directorate
Wirral Council
PO Box 290
Brighton Street
Wallasey
CH27 9FQ
T: 0151 691 8457
E: [email address]
Web: www.wirral.gov.uk
Dear Greenfield, Brendan,
Thank you.
I suspect it all might be a bit more complicated and bring in other issues outside of straight forward planning as this is hamilton square - conservation area, listed , scheduled and what not - and there are no lamp posts at all on this and two more of the four sides of the square, there is only some lamp posts on the one side immediately in front of the town hall and those are special decorative ones.
I will have to research this all a bit more I think.
Does the council have any recorded information about notices, consultations, reports, decisions and that sort of thing back when this pole mounted camera was originally installed and any policies or guidance on installations in this square please?
Yours sincerely,
John Jones
Dear John
Ultimately it would only need listed building consent if it was attached to a Listed Building, or sometimes within the curtilage of one. And its impact on the conservation area is only something that can be considered (from a planning perspective) if it requires planning permission, which it doesn't. Lots of sections of permitted development (PD) legislation have limitations whereby it won't be PD if it's within a conservation area, but part 12 doesn't have that limitation.
I'm unsure on the details as to when the pole was installed, as it didn't require any planning permission. The planning department wouldn't have any records relating to it. I can say it was installed prior to October 2008 as it is visible in 2008 on Google Street View which is as far back as that goes.
I would advise logging a query on the council website in order to find out more information on it. I would refer you on, but I'm not actually sure who the best person to speak to is.
Kind regards
Brendan Greenfield
Senior Planning Enforcement Officer
Regeneration and Place Directorate
Wirral Council
PO Box 290
Brighton Street
Wallasey
CH27 9FQ
T: 0151 691 8457
E: [email address]
Web: www.wirral.gov.uk
Dear Greenfield, Brendan,
Thank you.
I have found an old document from the council stating the whole square is listed but that does not seem to match up with heritage england's website, the vagaries of curtilage and it at the very least being surrounded by listings may also affect it. There are also issues on ripa and protection of freedoms and other things. I will have a think and do some research before pursuing on this one.
Yours sincerely,
John Jones
Hello John,
All the buildings one the square are listed, but the pavement is not
Kind regards
Brendan Greenfield
Senior Planning Enforcement Officer
Regeneration and Place Directorate
Wirral Council
PO Box 290
Brighton Street
Wallasey
CH27 9FQ
T: 0151 691 8457
E: [email address]
Web: www.wirral.gov.uk
Hello John,
I completed my site visits on the buildings that you complained about. In
regards to the police station. The CCTV camera which is located on the
corner of the building, appears to be permitted development under schedule
2, Part 2, Class F. So wouldn’t require any permission.
All the other complaints I’m still investigating. And will be requesting
that our asset management team submit applications for listed building
consent and planning permission were relevant for the buildings we own.
And I will also be contact the owners of the buildings we don’t (The old
post office and magistrates court).
Kind regards
Brendan Greenfield
Senior Planning Enforcement Officer
Regeneration and Place Directorate
Wirral Council
PO Box 290
Brighton Street
Wallasey
CH27 9FQ
T: 0151 691 8457
E: [email address]
Web: www.wirral.gov.uk
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
Dear Greenfield, Brendan,
Thank you.
I don't know if you measured and don't know myself if the police station corner camera is over 10 meters from the magistrates corner camera as required by 2.2.f.f1.f?
Yours sincerely,
John Jones
Hello,
Google aerial measurement has it as just over 11m, and that doesn't factor in the drop in height which will add to it.
Kind regards
Brendan Greenfield
Senior Planning Enforcement Officer
Regeneration and Place Directorate
Wirral Council
PO Box 290
Brighton Street
Wallasey
CH27 9FQ
T: 0151 691 8457
E: [email address]
Web: www.wirral.gov.uk
Thinking about it, in any case the camera has been there over 4 years so would be immune from enforcement action even if it wasn't permitted development. (this rule doesn't apply to listed buildings however)
Kind regards
Brendan Greenfield
Senior Planning Enforcement Officer
Regeneration and Place Directorate
Wirral Council
PO Box 290
Brighton Street
Wallasey
CH27 9FQ
T: 0151 691 8457
E: [email address]
Web: www.wirral.gov.uk
Dear Greenfield, Brendan,
For the police station cctv I think the 4 year rule may not apply in a conservation area like this?
Also, to note, as well as the larger camera on the corner of chester street and mortimer street, it also has a dome camera on the chester street side, maybe more elsewhere.
Yours sincerely,
John Jones
Hello John,
The four year rule still applies in a conservation area. The dome one additionally has been there over 4 years.
Kind regards
Brendan Greenfield
Senior Planning Enforcement Officer
Regeneration and Place Directorate
Wirral Council
PO Box 290
Brighton Street
Wallasey
CH27 9FQ
T: 0151 691 8457
E: [email address]
Web: www.wirral.gov.uk
Hello John,
There are currently listed building consent applications in for cctv at the following places you made complaints about, if you wish to comment on them, you can submit via the planning section of the council website. They were registered in mid May, but I've only just become aware they were registered.
LBC/24/00528- Pacific road centre
LBC/24/00534- Wallasey Town Hall
LBC/24/00535- Birkenhead Town Hall
Kind regards
Brendan Greenfield
Senior Planning Enforcement Officer
Regeneration and Place Directorate
Wirral Council
PO Box 290
Brighton Street
Wallasey
CH27 9FQ
T: 0151 691 8457
E: [email address]
Web: www.wirral.gov.uk
The cctv at Wirral magistrates court have now been approved and I have closed this particular case.
Kind regards
Brendan Greenfield
Senior Planning Enforcement Officer
Regeneration and Place Directorate
Wirral Council
PO Box 290
Brighton Street
Wallasey
CH27 9FQ
T: 0151 691 8457
E: [email address]
Web: www.wirral.gov.uk
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