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Berry head car park

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Dear Torbay Borough Council,please could you confirm the date that the carpark was leased to the trust,as it is unclear

Yours faithfully,
John Thomas

Freedom of Information, Torbay Borough Council

Dear Mr Thomas

Thank you for your request for information, which was received on 13 October 2019. We are currently processing your request and will contact you within 20 working days.

If you have any queries regarding your request, please do not hesitate to contact us, quoting the reference number above in all communications.

Yours sincerely

Greer

Information Compliance Support Officer

Information Compliance
Torbay Council
Town Hall
Castle Circus
Torquay
TQ1 3DR

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Dear Freedom of Information,
As i dont really want to wait 20 days,could you post the ref.number of the lease for the carpark at berry head,i notice that a number of people have tried to get this info from you and have all failed after being given a good run around for a few months first,i hope to have a reply very soon

Yours sincerely,

John thomas

Dear Freedom of Information,I have in my possession a copy of the lease for berry head car Park ref no. DN692123 and it clearly shows that TCCT have now realised that they never had control of this car park,it has been deemed private land by Premier Park and for the duration of the time that they were fleecing motorists at this car park,although halfway through that time Torbay rescinded the TRO at the car park,there is a paper trail all through this saga and shows the 6 months gap between applying for and approving revocation of that TRO,it is so blatant that this has been ignored and delayed by the lack of urgency to answer countless questions from various people to you through this freedom of information service while all the time TCCT have it seems now finally got control of the car park at Berry Head,but only since the date on the lease 1st December 2017

Yours sincerely,

John thomas

Dear Freedom of Information,
This is the only lease covering the car park and only signed in 2017
It was not on the original lease
Title Number : DN692123

This title is dealt with by HM Land Registry, Plymouth Office.

The following extract contains information taken from the register of the above title

number. A full copy of the register accompanies this document and you should read that

in order to be sure that these brief details are complete.

Neither this extract nor the full copy is an 'Official Copy' of the register. An

official copy of the register is admissible in evidence in a court to the same extent

as the original. A person is entitled to be indemnified by the registrar if he or she

suffers loss by reason of a mistake in an official copy.

This extract shows information current on 15 OCT 2019 at 14:27:45 and so does not take

account of any application made after that time even if pending in HM Land Registry

when this extract was issued.

REGISTER EXTRACT

Title Number : DN692123

Address of Property : Car Park and Public Conveniences, Berry Head, Brixham

Price Stated : Not Available

Registered Owner(s) : TORBAY COAST & COUNTRYSIDE TRUST of Occombe Farm,

Preston Down Road, Preston, Paignton TQ3 1RN.

Lender(s) : None

1 of

6

This is a copy of the register of the title number set out immediately below, showing

the entries in the register on 15 OCT 2019 at 14:27:45. This copy does not take account

of any application made after that time even if still pending in HM Land Registry when

this copy was issued.

This copy is not an 'Official Copy' of the register. An official copy of the register

is admissible in evidence in a court to the same extent as the original. A person is

entitled to be indemnified by the registrar if he or she suffers loss by reason of a

mistake in an official copy. If you want to obtain an official copy, the HM Land

Registry web site explains how to do this.

A: Property Register

This register describes the land and estate comprised in

the title. Except as mentioned below, the title includes

any legal easements granted by the registered lease but

is subject to any rights that it reserves, so far as

those easements and rights exist and benefit or affect

the registered land.

TORBAY

1 (15.12.2017) The Leasehold land demised by the lease referred to below

which lies within the area shown edged with red on the plan of the

above Title filed at the Registry and being Car Park and Public

Conveniences, Berry Head, Brixham.

2 (15.12.2017) The mines and minerals together with ancillary powers of

working excepted by the lease are excluded from this registration.

3 (15.12.2017) Short particulars of the lease(s) (or under-lease(s))

under which the land is held:

Date : 1 December 2017

Term : From and including 1 December 2017 until 30 November 2059

Parties : (1) The Council of the Borough of Torbay

(2) Torbay Coast & Countryside Trust

4 (15.12.2017) The Lease prohibits or restricts alienation.

5 (15.12.2017) The title includes any legal easements referred to in

clause LR11.1 of the registered lease but is subject to any rights that

are granted or reserved by the lease and affect the registered land.

6 (15.12.2017) The landlord's title is registered.

B: Proprietorship Register

This register specifies the class of title and

identifies the owner. It contains any entries that

affect the right of disposal.

Title absolute

1 (15.12.2017) PROPRIETOR: TORBAY COAST & COUNTRYSIDE TRUST of Occombe

Farm, Preston Down Road, Preston, Paignton TQ3 1RN.

2 (15.12.2017) RESTRICTION: No disposition by the proprietor of the

registered estate to which section 117-121 or section 124 of the

Charities Act 2011 applies is to be registered unless the instrument

contains a certificate complying with section 122(3) or section 125(2)

of that Act as appropriate.

C: Charges Register

This register contains any charges and other matters

that affect the land.

1 (15.12.2017) The land is subject to the rights

Yours sincerely,

John thomas

Freedom of Information, Torbay Borough Council

Dear Mr Thomas

 

Thank you for your emails, as your request falls under the Freedom of
Information Act 2000 the relevant department does have up to 20 working
days to reply. The response to your request received on 13 October 2019
will be responded to accordingly.

 

If you are then not happy with the response you receive you can then
request an Internal Review.

 

Kind Regards

 

Bee

Information Compliance

Torbay Council

Torquay Town Hall

Castle Circus

Torquay

TQ1 3DR

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Dear Freedom of Information,l have been asked if I am happy with my request to Torbay Council,I am not,but never expected a responce in less than the allocated time,I have read all the similar requests and noted the total lack of willingness to comply with all requests,but looking into it further I see it all comes down to the red lines drawn at the time and it’s plain to see

Yours sincerely,

John thomas

Freedom of Information, Torbay Borough Council

Dear Mr Thomas

I am sorry that you are unhappy with how you feel your request for information has been handled. I can confirm that I have reviewed the correspondence in relation to your request and can advise that I am satisfied this has been handled appropriately under the Freedom of Information Act.

You have requested confirmation of a date when the Berry Head Car Park was leased to the Trust. As this is information held by Torbay Council, it has been appropriately assigned under the FOI Act. We received your request on 13 October 2019 and you can expect to receive a response on or before 11 November 2019, which is 20 working days in accordance with the Act. Logging your request in this way means that we are able to keep track of your request and you have a reference number should you need to contact us about it, your reference number is 19200940.

If you remain unhappy with how your request has been handled then you are able to refer the matter with the Information Commissioner's Office, details can be found on their website www.ico.org.uk

Kind regards,
Jo Beer
Head of Information Governance & Data Protection Officer
Torbay Council
Town Hall
Castle Circus
Torquay
TQ1 3DR

Email: [email address]

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Dear Freedom
I have looked at this again and how can the car park at Berry head be relevent land when Premier Park started enforcement when it was still under aTRO,no matter what you would like it to be the facts remain,it was under your control and if not why bother revoking the TRO and why bother taking out a lease in 2017,all smoke and mirrors,you are a traffic authority by definition

1) In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than:
(a) a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1) of the Highways Act 1980);
(b) a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority;
(c) any land (not falling within paragraph (a) or (b)) on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control.
(2) In sub-paragraph (1)(b):
“parking place” has the meaning given by section 32(4)(b) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984;
“traffic authority” means each of the following:
(a) the Secretary of State;
(b) the Welsh Ministers;
(c)Transport for London;
(d) the Common Council of the City of London; (e) the council of a county, county borough, London
borough or district;
(f) a parish or community council;

Yours sincerely,

John thomas

Dear Freedom of Information,i had this today

Torbay Borough Council have delayed.

They have not replied to your FOI request Berry head car park promptly, as normally required by law

It aeems to be a habit,not following rules of law

1.Why did you lease the land at Berry Head without the Car Park and toilets,as they are isolated from the land on the lease and clearly not part of the agreement as shown in red on the document

2.Also when you rescinded the TRO in 2016 after the trust informed you that they wanted to enforce parking charges,why didnt you tell them that the Car Park wasnt on the lease,i notice the TRO stated that all penalties to be paid to Torbay Council as it public land and not Private

3.Why did the trust take out the lease on the Car Park and Toilets at Berry Head in 2017

Yours sincerely,

John thomas

Dear Freedom of Information,

The claim against me by Premier apark ltd that was made against me in the County Court for my alleged parking infringement at the Berry Head car park at Brixham has just been discontinued by their agent BW Legal.

"The claim which was arguably dishonest, for being totally devoid of merit and reckless, was discontinued when it was made clear to them that parking enforcement by any private parking company at Berry Head before December 2017 was illegal.  Until 15th December 2017 the Berry Head car park was NOT private land leased to the Trust (as was the rest of Berry Head). It remained, as it had always done, a public land car park under the jurisdiction of Torbay Borough Council".
ours sincerely,

John thomas

Freedom of Information, Torbay Borough Council

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Thomas

 

Further to your request received on 13 October 2019, I confirm that Torbay
Council has now considered your request under the Freedom of Information
Act 2000.

 

Our response is attached.

 

The information supplied to you continues to be protected by the
Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. You are free to use it for your
own purposes, including any non-commercial research you are doing and for
the purpose of news reporting. Any other re-use, for example commercial
publication, would require the permission of the copyright holder.

 

If you have any queries about this email please do not hesitate to contact
me directly, quoting the reference number listed at the top of this letter
in all communications.

 

If you are unhappy with the Council’s response to your request you may
request an Internal Review, your request must be made in writing setting
out the reasons you are unhappy within 40 working days of receiving the
response, you can request an Internal Review by writing to Information
Compliance, Town Hall, Castle Circus, Torquay, TQ1 3DR.

 

If after going through the Council’s Internal Review process you are still
not satisfied, you can contact the Information Commissioner direct.

 

Information Helpline: 0303 123 1113
Commissioner 01625 545 745
 
Wycliffe [1][email address]
House Email:
[2]www.ico.org.uk
Water Lane Website:

Wilmslow

Cheshire SK9
5AF

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Greer

 

Information Compliance

Torbay Council

Town Hall

Torquay

TQ1 3DR

01802 207056

 

 

 

Please note: Communications with Torbay Council may be monitored and/or
recorded for lawful purposes. This electronic email is confidential and
may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please
notify the sender, and please delete the message from your system
immediately. The views in this message are personal; they are not
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References

Visible links
1. mailto:[email address]
2. http://www.ico.org.uk/

Dear Freedom of Information,This seems to contradict your last reply

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O9_xQiW...

Yours sincerely,

John thomas

Dear Freedom of Information,There is a site plan in this link and it shows that the car park wasnt included in the lease

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O1u0YTX...

Yours sincerely,

John thomas

Freedom of Information, Torbay Borough Council

Dear Mr Thomas,

Thank you for your email. Unfortunately our system will not allow us to view through Google drive, please can you re-send in a different format?

Many thanks

Greer

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Freedom of Information, Torbay Borough Council

Dear Mr Thomas

 

Further to your email of 9 November 2019 please see a response below to
the questions you have raised:

 

Q1.Why did you lease the land at Berry Head without the Car Park and
toilets, as they are isolated from the land on the lease and clearly not
part of the agreement as shown in red on the document

 

A1. To confirm, since 1999 the main car park has been under the control
and management of Torbay Coast and Countryside Trust.  We are clear that a
lawful tenancy of the land existed and continues to exist.  The car park
is landlocked by TCCT land and can only be of benefit to the users of
Berry Head.

 

Q2.Also when you rescinded the TRO in 2016 after the trust informed you
that they wanted to enforce parking charges, why didn’t you tell them that
the Car Park wasn’t on the lease, I notice the TRO stated that all
penalties to be paid to Torbay Council as it public land and not Private

 

A2. As our answer to question 1, we are clear that a lawful tenancy of the
land existed and continues to exist of the Berry Head site.  Therefore the
control and management of the car park is the responsibility of Torbay
Coast and Countryside Trust.

 

Q3.Why did the trust take out the lease on the Car Park and Toilets at
Berry Head in 2017

 

A3. Leases to regularise the existing tenancy have been agreed during the
Trust’s occupancy.

 

I am aware of further emails you have sent on 13 November and 21 November
2019, however, as these emails do not contain any questions or requests
for information, these have been filed and will not be responded to.

 

This now concludes the Council’s response to your enquiries regarding this
matter.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Jo Beer

Head of Information Governance & Data Protection Officer

Torbay Council

Town Hall

Castle Circus

Torquay

TQ1 3DR

 

Email: [1][email address]

 

Please note: Communications with Torbay Council may be monitored and/or
recorded for lawful purposes. This electronic email is confidential and
may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please
notify the sender, and please delete the message from your system
immediately. The views in this message are personal; they are not
necessarily those of Torbay Council

References

Visible links
1. mailto:[email address]

Dear freedom of information, I have copied and pasted part of one of the links you asked for,it’s from Land Registry
This below is from Land Registry and covers the lease side of the car park,and although I realise that as the Land owner your answers not only to me but a few others to divert from the issue here,which is the botched tranfer of who has power to operate the Car Park

The 2013 TRO only gave the Trust permission to use the Car Park free of charge,as all charges were payable to the Council,for two years you allowed Premier Park to have a free run at Berry Head and all the PCN’s were forced on motorists illegally

Confirmation of the Public-Land status of the Berry Head Car Park as at September 2018
Torbay Borough Council leased to the Torbay Coast and Countryside Trust for a period of 60 years premises comprising much, but not all, of the coastal land of Berry Head at Brixham.
The current status of land in respect of ownership or tenancy must be and is recorded at the Land Registry.
An official copy of the deed of 7th December 1999 that constitutes the terms and extent of the Berry Head lease is filed with the Land Registry under Reference DN427585/OC/118.
The plan appended to the lease text (part of which enlarged is appended below) shows, where coloured green and outlined in red, the extent and boundary of the land that has since December 1999 constituted the area of private land leased to the control and management of the Trust.
The Berry Head Car Park, being the long linear area of parking land that extends forward of the frontage of the “Berry Head Centre” and commencing immediately on arrival from the approach road is seen on the plan to remain Torbay Council’s public land that penetrates into but is not part of the land leased to the Trust. The Trust thereby has no managerial control or jurisdiction whatsoever in respect of the Torbay Council’s Berry Head Car Park land or vehicle parking activity within it.
At least one Torbay traffic order, the ‘Borough of Torbay (Torbay Coast & Countryside Trust) (Off Street Parking Places) Order 2013’, in force on 11 March 2013, incontrovertibly confirms that the Berry Head Car Park shown in the plan of Schedule constituted at that date a public land off-street car park subject to the administration and control of Torbay Borough Council. Schedule 1 to the Order is appended.
The Lease plan shows an area of land adjacent to the Car Park described in the lease as the Overflow Car Park. This defined area is seen to be part of the land leased to the Trust but only with an express reservation. Clause 2-3 of the lease provides exceptions to the rights of the Trust over parts of the leased land; it provides over-riding rights of Torbay Council (the lease landlord) to access some of the leased land for specified purposes when necessary or when required by the Council. Clause 2-3.1 provides:
2-3.2 Access to overflow car park
Excepting and reserving to the Landlord the right as and when required to use the overflow car park shown hatched on the plan for the purpose of parking cars and other permitted vehicles having paid the appropriate pay and display parking fee.
Clause 3 of the 2013 Order designated each (of the two) areas defined in Schedule 1 to the Order (appended) as a Torbay controlled parking place. Notwithstanding that the land comprising the Overflow Car Park is leased to the Trust, because of continuing necessity to provide visitor parking in excess of the Car Park’s capacity Torbay Council was exercising its lease right to administer and control car parking under its power to provide car parking facilities under the Traffic Management Act enforced by Civil Enforcement Officers as at all other Torbay Council off-street parking places.
The Land Registry confirmed in July 2018 that the terms and extent of the 1999 lease to the Trust of some Berry Head land then remained in force unchanged. In response to an enquiry (Land Registry ref. 180702-002720) officer Michael Sharp of the Land Registry Legal Department confirmed there was no recorded replacement of or amendment to the 1999 lease. He wrote on 6th July 2018:
“If there was an amendment to the lease (demise or term), normally this will cause a surrender re-grant application which means the lease is closed and a new lease created to represent the new lease details.”
According to all of the foregoing, any statement or action by or on behalf of either party to the Berry Head Lease that purports a situation otherwise than provided by the Lease deed of 7th December 1999 has no basis in fact. In particular, the Berry Head Car Park is not and never has been private land; it constitutes land that has not been leased to others by Torbay Council and continues to be a Council off-street car park the revenues of which accrue to the Council.

Yours sincerely,

John thomas

Dear Freedom of Information, And part of the 2017 lease
REGISTER EXTRACT
Title Number
Address of Property
Price Stated
Registered Owner(s)
Lender(s)
: DN692123
: Car Park and Public Conveniences, Berry Head, Brixham
: Not Available
: TORBAY COAST & COUNTRYSIDE TRUST of Occombe Farm, Preston Down Road, Preston, Paignton TQ3 1R

Title number DN692123
This is a copy of the register of the title number set out immediately below, showing the entries in the register on 15 OCT 2019 at 14:27:45. This copy does not take account of any application made after that time even if still pending in HM Land Registry when this copy was issued.
This copy is not an 'Official Copy' of the register. An official copy of the register is admissible in evidence in a court to the same extent as the original. A person is entitled to be indemnified by the registrar if he or she suffers loss by reason of a mistake in an official copy. If you want to obtain an official copy, the HM Land Registry web site explains how to do this
A: Property Register
This register describes the land and estate comprised in the title. Except as mentioned below, the title includes any legal easements granted by the registered lease but is subject to any rights that it reserves, so far as those easements and rights exist and benefit or affect the registered land.
TORBAY
1 (15.12.2017) The Leasehold land demised by the lease referred to below which lies within the area shown edged with red on the plan of the above Title filed at the Registry and being Car Park and Public Conveniences, Berry Head, Brixham.
2 (15.12.2017) The mines and minerals together with ancillary powers of working excepted by the lease are excluded from this registration.
3 (15.12.2017) Short particulars of the lease(s) (or under-lease(s)) under which the land is held:
Date : 1 December 2017
Term : From and including 1 December 2017 until 30 November 2059
Parties : (1) The Council of the Borough of Torbay
(2) Torbay Coast & Countryside Trust
4 (15.12.2017) The Lease prohibits or restricts alienation.
5 (15.12.2017) The title includes any legal easements referred to in clause LR11.1 of the registered lease but is subject to any rights that are granted or reserved by the lease and affect the registered land.
6 (15.12.2017) The landlord's title is registered.

Yours sincerely,

John thomas

Dear Freedom of Information,I Am confused by your answer here
A1. To confirm, since 1999 the main car park has been under the control
and management of Torbay Coast and Countryside Trust. We are clear that a
lawful tenancy of the land existed and continues to exist. The car park
is landlocked by TCCT land and can only be of benefit to the users of
Berry Head

The plan attached to all the leases show that the car park is separate from the Land, the red boundary line runs up to the car park entrance, then skirts around the car park and back to the entrance on the other side of Gillard road, clearly showing it is not Land Locked

A2. As our answer to question 1, we are clear that a lawful tenancy of the
land existed and continues to exist of the Berry Head site. Therefore the
control and management of the car park is the responsibility of Torbay
Coast and Countryside Trust

And if a lawful tenancy existed with the trust, why did Torbay make an unlawful TRO at Berry Head if the council wasn’t responsible

Yours sincerely,

John thomas

Freedom of Information, Torbay Borough Council

Dear Mr Thomas

I am emailing to acknowledge receipt of your latest 3 emails. However, I have to advise that as you are not making any request for information, or as you are not raising any new issues these emails will be filed and not responded to.

Any further emails received from you about this issue will not be acknowledged and will be filed.

Yours sincerely,
Jo Beer
Head of Information Governance & Data Protection Officer
Torbay Council
Town Hall
Castle Circus
Torquay
TQ1 3DR

Email: [email address]

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Dear Freedom of Information,Torbay Council are never going to admit that they have made a mess of the leasing of Berry Head car park and the way they have covered up the dishonest way Premier Park were allowed to fleece visitors to the area,but any one who paid any of the PCN's that were issued while under Premier Park unlawful 2015 to 2017 management should claim it back

Yours sincerely,

John thomas

We don't know whether the most recent response to this request contains information or not – if you are John thomas please sign in and let everyone know.