Bats in Building 45 at the Valley Works Rhydymwyn

The request was successful.

Dear Natural Resources Body for Wales,

Bats in Building 45 at the Valley Works Rhydymwyn

 I am writing to make an open government request for all the information to which I am entitled under the Freedom of Information Act. In order to assist you with this request, I am outlining my query as specifically as possible. If however this request is too wide or too unclear, I would be grateful if you could contact me as I understand that under the Act, you are required to advise and assist requesters.

NRW in correspondence recently stated “Typically in north east Wales lesser horseshoe roost  populations have increased in size by a factor of 10.”
I wish to make a Freedom of Information request for all information including documentation held by NRW concerning this statement. This information should include all relevant minutes, memos, emails, reports, etc.

You further stated “NRW therefore concur with statements from Defra that the lesser horseshoe  bat population at Rhydymwyn  is  not  in a ‘favourable’ condition.”
I wish to make a further Freedom of Information request for all information including documentation held by NRW concerning this statement. This information should include all relevant minutes, memos, emails, reports, etc.

You also stated “Building 45 is the most vulnerable building as it contains a roost of lesser horseshoe bats (rhinolophus hipposideros). When the bats are not present within Building 45, access will be permitted throughout the building to any visitor. This is approximately October through to April. Further detail regarding access to this building at other times can be seen on page 2 of the bat protocol document which is attached”.

I wish to make another Freedom of Information request for all information including documentation held by NRW concerning any other buildings in Wales (or the UK) which have such a protocol and the building being closed for eight months of the year. This information should include all relevant minutes, memos, emails, reports, etc.

You also stated “We can confirm that meetings have taken place regarding the need for an integrated heritage management plan for the site and more recently, between Defra, Cadw, Welsh Government and  NRW regarding the future management of the site”.

I wish to make a final Freedom of Information request for all information including documentation held by NRW concerning this statement. This information should include all relevant minutes, memos, emails, reports, etc.

I understand that under the Act, I should be entitled to a response within 20 working days. I would be grateful if you could confirm in writing that you have received this request. I look forward to hearing from you in the near future.

Yours faithfully,

David Smith

Access to Information Team, Natural Resources Body for Wales

Diolch ichi am eich cais am wybodaeth. Pwrpas yr e-bost hwn yw cydnabod
ein bod wedi derbyn eich cais.

Bydd y Tîm Mynediad at Wybodaeth yn ymateb i'ch cais cyn gynted ag y bo
modd, a dim hwyrach nag 20 diwrnod gwaith ar ôl derbyn eich cais.

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Thank you for your request for information, this email is to acknowledge
that we have received your request.

 

The Access to Information Team will respond to your request as soon as
possible and no later than 20 working days from when we received your
request.

 

Lilley, Andrew,

1 Attachment

Dear David,

  Please find attached acknowledgement on behalf of Mathew Parry for your
request for information

regards

Andrew Lilley

Swyddog Arweiniol Mynediad i Wybodaeth -  Access to Information Support
Officer

Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru / Natural Resources Wales

Ffôn/Tel: 03000655159
E-bost/E-mail: [1][email address]

[email address]
Gwefan / Website
[2]www.cyfoethnaturiolcymru.gov.uk / [3]www.naturalresourceswales.gov.uk

Ar 1 Ebrill 2013, unodd Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru, Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd
Cymru a Chomisiwn Coedwigaeth Cymru gan greu un corff, sef Cyfoeth
Naturiol Cymru.
As of 1 April 2013, the Countryside Council for Wales, Environment Agency
Wales and Forestry Commission Wales became Natural Resources
Wales/Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru.

 

Ein diben yw sicrhau bod adnoddau naturiol Cymru yn cael eu cynnal, eu
gwella a’u defnyddio yn gynaliadwy, yn awr ac yn y dyfodol.

Our purpose is to ensure that the natural resources of Wales are
sustainably maintained, enhanced and used, now and in the future

Siaradwr Cymraeg

References

Visible links
1. mailto:[email%20address]
2. http://www.cyfoethnaturiolcymru.gov.uk/
3. http://www.naturalresourceswales.gov.uk/

Parry, Mathew,

2 Attachments

Dear Mr Smith,

Please see letter attached in relation to your request for information.

Regards

Mathew Parry
Swyddog Arweiniol Mynediad i Wybodaeth -  Access to Information Lead Officer
Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru / Natural Resources Wales

Ffôn/Tel: 03000654958
E-bost/E-mail: [email address]
[email address]
Gwefan / Website
www.cyfoethnaturiolcymru.gov.uk / www.naturalresourceswales.gov.uk
Ar 1 Ebrill 2013, unodd Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru, Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd Cymru a Chomisiwn Coedwigaeth Cymru gan greu un corff, sef Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru.
As of 1 April 2013, the Countryside Council for Wales, Environment Agency Wales and Forestry Commission Wales became Natural Resources Wales/Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru.
 
Ein diben yw sicrhau bod adnoddau naturiol Cymru yn cael eu cynnal, eu gwella a’u defnyddio yn gynaliadwy, yn awr ac yn y dyfodol.
Our purpose is to ensure that the natural resources of Wales are sustainably maintained, enhanced and used, now and in the future
Siaradwr Cymraeg
 

Twitter:           twitter.com/NatResWales 
Facebook:     facebook.com/NatResWales
Flickr:             Fli
Youtube: youtube.com/NatResWales

show quoted sections

Dear Parry, Mathew,
Bats in Building 45 at the Valley Works Rhydymwyn

I'm not sure if you actually received my original message. perhaps because of my ineptitude with computers! I have inserted it here:

< I am writing to make an open government request for all the information to which I am entitled under the Freedom of Information Act. In order to assist you with this request, I am outlining my query as specifically as possible. If however this request is too wide or too unclear, I would be grateful if you could contact me as I understand that under the Act, you are required to advise and assist requesters.

NRW in correspondence recently stated “Typically in north east Wales lesser horseshoe roost  populations have increased in size by a factor of 10.”

I wish to make a Freedom of Information request for all information including documentation held by NRW concerning this statement. This information should include all relevant minutes, memos, emails, reports, etc.

You further stated “NRW therefore concur with statements from Defra that the lesser horseshoe  bat population at Rhydymwyn  is  not  in a ‘favourable’ condition.”

I wish to make a further Freedom of Information request for all information including documentation held by NRW concerning this statement. This information should include all relevant minutes, memos, emails, reports, etc.

You also stated “Building 45 is the most vulnerable building as it contains a roost of lesser horseshoe bats (rhinolophus hipposideros). When the bats are not present within Building 45, access will be permitted throughout the building to any visitor. This is approximately October through to April. Further detail regarding access to this building at other times can be seen on page 2 of the bat protocol document which is attached”.

I wish to make another Freedom of Information request for all information including documentation held by NRW concerning any other buildings in Wales (or the UK) which have such a protocol and the building being closed for eight months of the year. This information should include all relevant minutes, memos, emails, reports, etc.

You also stated “We can confirm that meetings have taken place regarding the need for an integrated heritage management plan for the site and more recently, between Defra, Cadw, Welsh Government and  NRW regarding the future management of the site”.

I wish to make a final Freedom of Information request for all information including documentation held by NRW concerning this statement. This information should include all relevant minutes, memos, emails, reports, etc.

I understand that under the Act, I should be entitled to a response within 20 working days. I would be grateful if you could confirm in writing that you have received this request. I look forward to
hearing from you in the near future.>

Yours sincerely,

David Smith

Parry, Mathew,

Dear Mr Smith,

We have received your original request and have replied in my previous email with a letter attached.

If you would like to give me a call to clarify your request or if you have not received my email of the 5th November, I can be contacted on the number below.

Thanks.

Regards

Mathew Parry
Swyddog Arweiniol Mynediad i Wybodaeth -  Access to Information Lead Officer
Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru / Natural Resources Wales

Ffôn/Tel: 03000654958
E-bost/E-mail: [email address]
[email address]
Gwefan / Website
www.cyfoethnaturiolcymru.gov.uk / www.naturalresourceswales.gov.uk
Ar 1 Ebrill 2013, unodd Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru, Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd Cymru a Chomisiwn Coedwigaeth Cymru gan greu un corff, sef Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru.
As of 1 April 2013, the Countryside Council for Wales, Environment Agency Wales and Forestry Commission Wales became Natural Resources Wales/Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru.
 
Ein diben yw sicrhau bod adnoddau naturiol Cymru yn cael eu cynnal, eu gwella a’u defnyddio yn gynaliadwy, yn awr ac yn y dyfodol.
Our purpose is to ensure that the natural resources of Wales are sustainably maintained, enhanced and used, now and in the future
Siaradwr Cymraeg
 

Twitter:           twitter.com/NatResWales 
Facebook:     facebook.com/NatResWales
Flickr:             Fli
Youtube: youtube.com/NatResWales

show quoted sections

Dear Parry, Mathew,

My apologies for the repeat message sent in error. This is the one which I should have sent to you:

Thank you for your reply and I will refine the requests as follows. On 24th October 2014 Tim Jones' Office emailed our Assembly Member with replies to a number of questions, included in that reply was the assertion “Typically in north east Wales lesser horseshoe roost populations have increased in size by a factor of 10”

My request is for you to identify and provide the information on which this statement is based.

Secondly, in the same document Tim Jones' Office stated “NRW therefore concur with statements from Defra that the lesser horseshoe bat population at Rhydymwyn is not in a ‘favourable’ condition.”

My request is for you to identify and provide the information on which this statement is based.

In your reply to Question three “Natural Resources Wales are not aware of any other site in Wales where such a protocol is in place and the building closed for 8 months of the year” would it be reasonable to assume if there were any such sites you would be aware of them?

Finally, in the same document Tim Jones' Office stated “We can confirm that meetings have taken place regarding the need for an integrated heritage management plan for the site and more recently, between Defra, Cadw, Welsh Government and NRW regarding the future management of the site”
You replied “The information you have requested has been released previously under the Environmental Information Regulations and is therefore now freely available to the public. Please see the response to request reference ATI-04545a attached”

This is unfortunately not the case. ATI-04545a covers only correspondence concerning an integrated heritage management plan and does not cover “meetings have taken place …… more recently, between Defra, Cadw, Welsh Government and NRW regarding the future management of the site”.

As this is a recent development separate from the proposed integrated heritage management plan I would like all information you hold, please.

I hope this defines my requests more accurately and helps.

Yours sincerely,

David Smith

Parry, Mathew,

4 Attachments

Dear Mr Smith,

Please find Natural Resources Wales' response to your request for information attached.

Regards

Mathew Parry
Swyddog Arweiniol Mynediad i Wybodaeth -  Access to Information Lead Officer
Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru / Natural Resources Wales

Ffôn/Tel: 03000654958
E-bost/E-mail: [email address]
[email address]
Gwefan / Website
www.cyfoethnaturiolcymru.gov.uk / www.naturalresourceswales.gov.uk
Ar 1 Ebrill 2013, unodd Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru, Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd Cymru a Chomisiwn Coedwigaeth Cymru gan greu un corff, sef Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru.
As of 1 April 2013, the Countryside Council for Wales, Environment Agency Wales and Forestry Commission Wales became Natural Resources Wales/Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru.
 
Ein diben yw sicrhau bod adnoddau naturiol Cymru yn cael eu cynnal, eu gwella a’u defnyddio yn gynaliadwy, yn awr ac yn y dyfodol.
Our purpose is to ensure that the natural resources of Wales are sustainably maintained, enhanced and used, now and in the future
Siaradwr Cymraeg
 

Twitter:           twitter.com/NatResWales 
Facebook:     facebook.com/NatResWales
Flickr:             Fli
Youtube: youtube.com/NatResWales

show quoted sections

Dear Parry, Mathew,

THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY. PLEASE COULD YOU HELP A LITTLE FURTHER WITH QUESTIONS ONE AND TWO.
I HAVE PUT MY COMMENTS BELOW IN CAPITAL LETTERS

Thank you for your reply and I will refine the requests as follows. On 24th October 2014 Tim Jones' Office emailed our Assembly Member with replies to a number of questions, included in that reply was the assertion "Typically in north east Wales lesser horseshoe roost populations have increased in size by a factor of 10"
My request is for you to identify and provide the information on which this statement is based.
The National Bat Monitoring Programme provides UK population trend data for lesser horseshoe bats from the annual summer roost counts. The trend data to 2013 reports can be found on their website, http://www.bats.orq.uk/paqes/lesser horseshoe bat trends wales.html
Please also see regional population trend data document attached for Wales up to 2012. We don't have an equivalent for 2013.
Please also see the attached spreadsheet titled 'LHB Counts NE Wales'.

THANK YOU. I HAVE READ YOUR REPLY AND THE ATTACHMENTS BUT I AM UNABLE TO FIND WHERE THERE IS ANY INFORMATION TO SUPPORT THE ASSERTION THAT "Typically in north east Wales lesser horseshoe roost populations have increased in size by a factor of 10"
PLEASE CAN YOU HELP ME?

Secondly, in the same document Tim Jones' Office stated "NRW therefore concur with statements from Defra that the lesser horseshoe bat population at Rhydymwyn is not in a favourable' condition."
My request is for you to identify and provide the information on which this statement is based. Please see spreadsheet 'LHB Counts NE Wales' showing the counts of the different regions.

I HAVE READ YOUR REPLY AND THE SPREADSHEET BUT CAN FIND NO STATEMENTS FROM DEFRA CONCURRING WITH NRW THAT “that the lesser horseshoe bat population at Rhydymwyn is not in a favourable' condition." PLEASE CAN YOU HELP ME?

In your reply to Question three "Natural Resources Wales are not aware of any other site in Wales where such a protocol is in place and the building closed for 8 months of the year" would it be reasonable to assume if there were any such sites you would be aware of them?
Yes that is correct.

THANK YOU

Finally, in the same document Tim Jones' Office stated "We can confirm that meetings have taken place regarding the need for an integrated heritage management plan for 33 site and more recently, between Defra, Cadw, Welsh Government and NRW regarding the future management of the site"
You replied "The information you have requested has been released previously under the Environmental Information Regulations and is therefore now freely available to the public. Please see the response to request reference ATI-04545a attached"
This is unfortunately not the case. ATI-04545a covers only correspondence concerning an
integrated heritage management plan and does not cover "meetings have taken place
more recently, between Defra, Cadw, Welsh Government and NRW regarding the future management of the site".
As this is a recent development separate from the proposed integrated heritage management plan I would like all information you hold, please.
Please see pdf file attached titled 'ATI-05931a Annex A' containing information and correspondence relating to a meeting held to discuss the future management of the site. This also contains the file note from that meeting.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP

Yours sincerely,

David Smith

Parry, Mathew,

Dear Mr Smith,

Please response from our species team to your additional comments below:-

1) "Typically in north east Wales lesser horseshoe roost populations have increased in size by a factor of 10" My request is for you to identify and provide the information on which this statement is based.

In 1993, CCW with the support of local bat groups commenced a programme of annual surveillance of lesser horseshoe breeding sites throughout Wales. In NE Wales, sites subject to long term annual surveillance included those at Llanrhaeadr, Chirk Castle, Bod Idris, Bodrhyddan Hall, Bodfari, Abergele, Ruthin, Tremeirchion and Hendre/Rhydymyn. The population at Hendre/Rhydymwyn is considered to utilize three sites for breeding roost purposes.
With the exception of the population at Hendre/Rhydymwyn, all these sites have increased in size by an order of magnitude (ie a factor of 10).

2) "NRW therefore concur with statements from Defra that the lesser horseshoe bat population at Rhydymwyn is not in a favourable' condition."

The issue of what constitutes favourable is an interesting one. As you will be aware, the principle aim of the Habitats Directive is to maintain or restore European habitats or species to favourable conservation status. LHB populations were thought to have been subject to substantive declines (c.90%). Consequently populations at 1992/94 levels could not therefore have been regarded to be at favourable levels. In respect of the LHS population at Rhydymwyn/Hendre, it is considered that the population has not exhibited the same rate of increase (when compared) to other sites in NE Wales. Consequently, it was concluded that the population had not reached figures that could be regarded as 'favourable'. However, we acknowledge that figures for 2014 that were only received this autumn identifies an increase in the size of the Rhydymwyn population.

Regards

Mathew Parry
Swyddog Arweiniol Mynediad i Wybodaeth -  Access to Information Lead Officer
Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru / Natural Resources Wales

Ffôn/Tel: 03000654958
E-bost/E-mail: [email address]
[email address]
Gwefan / Website
www.cyfoethnaturiolcymru.gov.uk / www.naturalresourceswales.gov.uk
Ar 1 Ebrill 2013, unodd Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru, Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd Cymru a Chomisiwn Coedwigaeth Cymru gan greu un corff, sef Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru.
As of 1 April 2013, the Countryside Council for Wales, Environment Agency Wales and Forestry Commission Wales became Natural Resources Wales/Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru.
 
Ein diben yw sicrhau bod adnoddau naturiol Cymru yn cael eu cynnal, eu gwella a’u defnyddio yn gynaliadwy, yn awr ac yn y dyfodol.
Our purpose is to ensure that the natural resources of Wales are sustainably maintained, enhanced and used, now and in the future
Siaradwr Cymraeg
 

Twitter:           twitter.com/NatResWales 
Facebook:     facebook.com/NatResWales
Flickr:             Fli
Youtube: youtube.com/NatResWales

show quoted sections

Dear Parry, Mathew,

Thank you for your kind reply and I would ask you bear with me in one minor further question. In response to your replies I have responded in capitals underneath.

1) "Typically in north east Wales lesser horseshoe roost populations have increased in size by a factor of 10" My request is for you to identify and provide the information on which this statement is based.

In 1993, CCW with the support of local bat groups commenced a programme of annual surveillance of lesser horseshoe breeding sites throughout Wales. In NE Wales, sites subject to long term annual surveillance included those at Llanrhaeadr, Chirk Castle, Bod Idris, Bodrhyddan Hall, Bodfari, Abergele, Ruthin, Tremeirchion and Hendre/Rhydymyn. The population at Hendre/Rhydymwyn is considered to utilize three sites for breeding roost purposes.
With the exception of the population at Hendre/Rhydymwyn, all these sites have increased in size by an order of magnitude (ie a factor of 10).

I NOTE YOUR COMMENTS AND THANK YOU

2) "NRW therefore concur with statements from Defra that the lesser horseshoe bat population at Rhydymwyn is not in a favourable' condition."

The issue of what constitutes favourable is an interesting one. As you will be aware, the principal aim of the Habitats Directive is to maintain or restore European habitats or species to favourable conservation status. LHB populations were thought to have been subject to substantive declines (c.90%). Consequently populations at 1992/94 levels could not therefore have been regarded to be at favourable levels. In respect of the LHS population at Rhydymwyn/Hendre, it is considered that the population has not exhibited the same rate of increase (when compared) to other sites in NE Wales. Consequently, it was concluded that the population had not reached figures that could be regarded as 'favourable'. However, we acknowledge that figures for 2014 that were only received this autumn identifies an increase in the size of the Rhydymwyn population.

I CANNOT DETECT ANYWHERE ANY STATEMENTS FROM DEFRA THAT “THAT THE LESSER HORSESHOE BATS POPULATION AT RHYDTYMWYN IS NOT IN A FAVOURABLE CONDITION” THE REPLY INDICATES THAT NRW AGREE WITH NRW. IF THERE ARE NO STATEMENTS FROM DEFRA ON THIS TOPIC PLEASE TELL ME AND WE CAN CLOSE THIS DOWN.

Yours sincerely,

David Smith

Parry, Mathew,



Rwyf allan o'r swyddfa ar hyn o bryd. Mi wnai ymateb i'ch ymholiad mor
fuan a phosib ar ol dechwelyd i'r swyddfa. Am unrhyw fater brys cysylltwch
a [email address]
Diolch yn Fawr

Mathew

I am currently out of office. I will reply to your email as soon as I can
upon my return. For any urgent enquiries please contact [email address]
Many Thanks

Mathew

Parry, Mathew,

1 Attachment

Dear Mr Smith,

Please find the Bat Protocol for Rhydymwyn attached. A draft copy of this was provided to you on the 5th November.

The statement you are querying can be found in the 2nd paragraph on page 2 of the document.

Regards

Mathew Parry
Swyddog Arweiniol Mynediad i Wybodaeth -  Access to Information Lead Officer
Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru / Natural Resources Wales

Ffôn/Tel: 03000654958
E-bost/E-mail: [email address]
[email address]
Gwefan / Website
www.cyfoethnaturiolcymru.gov.uk / www.naturalresourceswales.gov.uk
Ar 1 Ebrill 2013, unodd Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru, Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd Cymru a Chomisiwn Coedwigaeth Cymru gan greu un corff, sef Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru.
As of 1 April 2013, the Countryside Council for Wales, Environment Agency Wales and Forestry Commission Wales became Natural Resources Wales/Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru.
 
Ein diben yw sicrhau bod adnoddau naturiol Cymru yn cael eu cynnal, eu gwella a’u defnyddio yn gynaliadwy, yn awr ac yn y dyfodol.
Our purpose is to ensure that the natural resources of Wales are sustainably maintained, enhanced and used, now and in the future
Siaradwr Cymraeg
 

Twitter:           twitter.com/NatResWales 
Facebook:     facebook.com/NatResWales
Flickr:             Fli
Youtube: youtube.com/NatResWales

show quoted sections

Dear Parry, Mathew,

Thank you for your reply dated 12th January 2014.Which stated

“Please find the Bat Protocol for Rhydymwyn attached. A draft copy of this was provided to you on the 5th November.

The statement you are querying can be found in the 2nd paragraph on page 2 of the document.”

To which I would reply that I still cannot see “NRW therefore concur with statements from Defra that the lesser horseshoe bat population at Rhydymwyn is not in a favourable condition." The document reads as CCW supplying the opinion and DEFRA acting on it.

However we have gone as far as we can with this and I will be closing this query down.

I would like to thank NRW for its patience and courteous help.

Yours sincerely,

David Smith