A4174 30mph repeaters

The request was successful.

Dear South Gloucestershire Council,

Please supply me with the following information under the usual FOI time constraints.

I write regarding the legality of the 30 mph speed limit signage on the roundabout at the A4174 Emerson's Green roundabout.

As you approach from the south travelling north, the limit is posted clearly as 30mph, the gateways signs existing here:

https://goo.gl/maps/CAyiKsuj2W62

This means that the speed limit through the roundabout is 30mph.

However, having crossed the roundabout travelling north on the A4174 towards the Willy Wicket roundabout, there are two new 30mph signs positioned approximately 50m past the roundabout here:

https://goo.gl/maps/6xJ79zjHKwD2

Clearly, these cannot indicate a change of limit as you are already in a 30mph limit, so they can only be over-sized 30mph repeaters and as there is a system of street lighting, additional repeater signage is expressly forbidden.

Please supply me with the recognised exemption you are utilising that allows you to deploy 30mph repeater signage on a restricted road?

Yours faithfully,

Andrew Whitehead

ECSFeedback, South Gloucestershire Council

Dear Mr Whitehead,

Thank you for your recent request for information under the Freedom of Information Act, which was received by the Environment & Community Services Department on 14th August 2017.  Please note that this is also the date that the 20 day period for considering your request commenced.

Your request will now be considered in accordance with the Act by our Streetcare Team under reference number FIDP/009580-17.

In the event that the information you have requested is to be disclosed, it will be sent to you no later than 12th September 2017.  If we are unable to respond by this date then we will contact you to agree a suitable alternative date to respond to your request.

If you have any queries, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards,

Sue

Sue Lomax
Departmental Feedback Officer,
Environment and Community Services Dept.
 
South Gloucestershire Council
Department for Environment and Community Services
PO Box 1954
Information Management Team
Bristol
BS37 0DD
 
Working days: Thursday & Friday
Tel: (01454) 863405
Email:  [email address]

Douglas MacKay, South Gloucestershire Council

1 Attachment

Hello,

 

Please see attached response to your recent FOI request.

 

Regards

 

Douglas Mackay

North Fringe to Hengrove Metrobus Project

Strategic Projects & Transport

Department of Environment & Community Services

South Gloucestershire Council

Badminton Road, Yate, BS37 5AF

 

Postal Address:

South Gloucestershire Council

Department for Environment  and Community Services

Strategic Projects and Transport

PO Box 1954

Bristol

BS37 0DD

 

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and their communities, ensuring South Gloucestershire continues to be a
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Dear Douglas

Thank you very much for your reply, I read its contents with great interest. However, not wishing to enter into a prolonged literary exchange and without being vexatious, I request clarification on the information you have supplied.

Quoting directly from your response above;

‘……in this situation the new 30mph signs are not acting as repeater signage but to provide drivers with sufficient notice of the change of speed limit from the previous NSL in advance of Metrobus services operating at the new bus stop.’

Given it cannot be argued that all vehicles approaching the new 30mph signs are already in a 30mph limit, having come around the bend and being faced with two large 30mph signs that reinforce the already existing 30mph limit, you claim the new 30mph signs are not ‘acting’ as repeaters but as something else.

Equally, they cannot be gateway signs as there is no change of posted threshold to observe, so whilst I recognise your attempt to justify ‘why’ the new 30mph signs exist, you have supplied nothing that identifies ‘how’ they exist?

Q1. As they are neither gateway/terminal signs or repeaters, what is the officially recognised classification of the new 30mph signs?

Q2. In which traffic signs manual do they appear?

On the southern side of the roundabout, the 30mph approach gateways have been sub-standard for many years;

https://goo.gl/maps/82Jco4UcHst

Note that over two years ago (the date of Google images), they had white faded borders, just as they have today (September 2017). Bright red bordered signage would go a long way in emphasising the posted speed limit, so;

Q3. Why were these not replaced at the same time as the new 30mph signs were deployed?

Whilst I take no issue with any legally recognised move to improve road safety, local authorities routinely ignore their responsibilities to observe very clear policies. Repeaters on a street lit road with a 30mph speed limit in force are forbidden, no ifs, no buts, they are expressly prohibited.

You freely admit that this section of carriageway is covered by a new TRO, making it a 30mph restricted road. Yet the new 30mph signs appear to have been granted some magical dispensation simply because you do not view them being what they most evidently are.

Flouting the accepted rules creates huge confusion for motorists who should never be faced by expensive signage that should not have been deployed.

Yours sincerely,

Andy Whitehead

Dear Douglas MacKay,

Following your response, on September 4th 2017 you were then sent a request for clarifying information.

However, more than 20 working days have now passed and you have refused to acknowledge this request either with any form of reply explaining the delay, or the answers that satisfy my further questions, which you are legally obligated to do.

To reiterate, you extended the existing 30mph limit northward from the roundabout along the A4174 Ring Road for which a TRO was obtained.

You then deployed additional 30mph speed limit signage in this street lit TRO controlled stretch of carriageway. Then, having had it pointed out that any additional 30mph signage is strictly prohibited under such circumstances, you claim that these additional 30mph signs aren’t repeaters, instead they are officially recognised as ‘reminders’, legitimately deployed because it wasn’t unreasonable and it felt like the right thing to do.

You have been asked to qualify this by providing where in TSRGD/any recognised traffic signage manual that ‘reminder’ signage appears?

I have been more than patient for you to provide the legal basis for additional 30mph signs to be positioned along a street lit 30mph TRO controlled stretch of carriageway.

Given that this exchange is viewable on a globally accessible forum, please supply the requested information within five working days - if you do not, then under your reference FIDP/009580-17, I will formally request an internal review.

Yours sincerely,

Andy Whitehead

Douglas MacKay, South Gloucestershire Council

Dear Mr Whitehead,

Apologies for the delayed response to your second e-mail.

Following a review of the design rationale leading to the 30mph signs being erected in their current position it has been acknowledged that these signs have been installed incorrectly. Therefore the 30mph sign faces are to be removed and re-deployed elsewhere on the road network.

This will be done at the earliest available opportunity.

Regards

Douglas

Douglas Mackay
North Fringe to Hengrove Metrobus Project
Strategic Projects & Transport
Department of Environment & Community Services
South Gloucestershire Council
Badminton Road, Yate, BS37 5AF

Postal Address:
South Gloucestershire Council
Department for Environment and Community Services
Strategic Projects and Transport
PO Box 1954
Bristol
BS37 0DD