A237 LION GREEN ROAD - TRAFFIC SIGNALS – Poor Phasing – Timing Details
Dear Transport for London,
It is an observed fact that the traffic signals on the A237 Lion Green Road at the southern junction with Brighton Road and at the northern junction with Chipstead Valley Road in Coulsdon operate poorly.
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At busy times, eg MF 0730-0900 and 1630-1800, the green time for LGR at CVR is often too short.
It used to be 50 seconds green of a 2-min cycle.
It is now 40 seconds, which is too short, and leads to long slow queues from the Marlpit Lane roundabout, while other traffic flows fairly freely.
At quiet times, eg 0730 on Sundays, the green time for LGR at CVR is often a minimum green of about 12 seconds.
This means that a short queue of 7-9 cars does not clear.
There is then a long red wait to go again.
Both of these cause needless congestion and delay.
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The green time for CVR also varies randomly.
At times it is about 35 seconds, which is ample.
At other times, when much traffic is trying to pass, the green is as short as 15 seconds.
The two lane marking from CVR west is badly worn away.
When is this due for repainting?
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At the southern end of LGR at Brighton Road, the green time is erratic.
It is often very long – over a minute.
At times, it is short, maybe only 15 seconds, despite much traffic waiting to move through.
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The extended green time to move into the town northbound from ML roundabout is too short.
It is typically only 5-6 seconds – just long enough for traffic already past the STOP line to move off, but not long enough for any behind the STOP line to get through.
The green time to exit the town does not cut off after say 12 seconds when only a few cars are waiting.
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This junction would operate better if the right turn from BNR into LGR were banned.
Then traffic could flow north into the town as traffic flows south out of town.
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Why do these signals operate in this perverse manner?
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What communications has TFL received, eg from Croydon members or officers, or from the public, on this matter?
What has been the TFL reply?
How does TFL propose to rectify these issues?
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Please provide full details of the design timings at each of these locations, including the phasing plans, explaining how the total cycle time, and the green time for each phase is set, and how this varies by time of day and day of the week, and notably by traffic demand.
What devices exist at these locations to measure and act on traffic demand, and how do they work?
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How in general does TFL monitor traffic signals to ensure they operate as designed, and achieve the intended outcomes, and also avoid unintended negative results?
How has this applied at this location?
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At BNR / LGR, a roundabout would provide a much better outcome for all road users – with a pelican crossing across LGR for those on foot.
What analyse has been or will be performed to find an improved junction layout along these lines?
Will TFL actively investigate this option, with a view to early implementation?
Yours faithfully,
Kevin Lawrence
Dear Kevin Lawrence,
TfL Ref: FOI-3271-2324
Thank you for your request received by Transport for London (TfL) on 11^th
December 2023 asking for information about the traffic signals at the A237
Lion Green Road.
Your request will be processed in accordance with the requirements of the
Freedom of Information Act and our information access policy.
A response will be sent to you by 11^th January 2024.
We will publish anonymised versions of requests and responses on the
[1]www.tfl.gov.uk website. We will not publish your name and we will send
a copy of the response to you before it is published on our website.
In the meantime, if you would like to discuss this matter further, please
do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours sincerely,
David Wells
FOI Case Officer
FOI Case Management Team
General Counsel
Transport for London
Dear Kevin Lawrence,
TfL Ref: FOI-3271-2324
Thank you for your request received by Transport for London (TfL) on 11^th
December 2023 asking for information about the traffic signals at the A237
Lion Green Road.
Your request has been considered in accordance with the requirements of
the Freedom of Information Act and our information access policy.
I can confirm that we hold the information you require. However, I am
afraid it is not possible to source all of the information asked for
within the costs limit for responding to requests, as set out under
section 12 of the Freedom of Information Act. Under section 12, TfL is not
required to provide information if it would cost more than £450 to
determine if the requested information is held, and to then locate,
retrieve or extract it from elsewhere. This is calculated at a rate of £25
per hour, equivalent to 18 hours work.
In this instance the exemption applies because the information has not
been collated before and there is no quick, efficient or automated way of
doing so. For example, you have asked “What communications has TFL
received, eg from Croydon members or officers, or from the public, on this
matter? What has been the TFL reply?”. I have been in liaison with our
Customer Services team to try and establish what communications may have
been received from the public about these traffic signals. They have run
an automated search of all correspondence received in November 2023
containing any of the phrases “A237” or “Lion Green Road” or “Brighton
Road” or “Chipstead Valley Road”?. This returned 33 cases for that month
alone. TfL holds records of correspondence from the public going back
seven years, and hence for that entire period the number of potential
cases we may have received would very likely run to many thousands (if
November 2023 were representative then we would likely have received 396
such cases in a year (33 cases x 12 months) and therefore 2772 cases
across seven years (7 x 396). These items of correspondence may or may not
be about the traffic signals. In order to determine which are specifically
about the traffic signals rather than other matters we would have to
review them individually. Given the numbers involved this is not possible
within the 18 hour costs limit. Answering your other requests for
information would add to the costs burden further.
In order to bring your request within the costs limit you may wish to
narrow its scope, focussing on the information that is of most importance
to you. In doing so you may want to review the advice published by the
Information Commissioner on how best to access information from public
bodies, available on its website here:
[1]https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/offici...
Please note that should you choose to submit a refined request you should
restrict it to requests for recorded information. Requests asking for
explanation (i.e. most questions beginning “why” or “how”) do not fall
under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act, and should instead
be directed to our Customer Services team here:
[2]https://tfl.gov.uk/help-and-contact/
Please see the attached information sheet for details of your right to
appeal.
Yours sincerely,
David Wells
FOI Case Officer
FOI Case Management Team
General Counsel
Transport for London
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