Email from UKBA to RYA
Date: 11 August 2006
I called your office earlier, and was advised that it would be best to contact you by e-
mail.
The e-Borders programme is a major part of the Government’s strategy to enhance the
security of the United Kingdom’s borders over the next 10 years and will require all
Carriers (Aviation, Maritime & Rail) to provide passenger and crew data
electronically to e-Borders for watchlist checking, passenger profiling and the
generation of passenger movement records. The current expectation is that the e-
Borders contract will be awarded in Summer 2007, with the early stages of rollout
taking place in late 2007 or early 2008.
The requirements of the e-Borders programme view the operators of recreational craft
undertaking international voyages as carriers, so there will be a requirement for the
operators of these craft to report their movements to e-Borders. This will include
voyages to and from other EU countries. It is unlikely that recreational craft will be
included in the early phases
Our early thinking regarding recreational craft would be to set up a web-based system
so that exit from and entry to the UK could be reported. We would be asking for
travel document information (Name, Date of Birth, Nationality, and Passport Details)
and for dates, times and destination/origins of voyages.
One of our key drivers is to achieve 100% compliance without enforcement. To this
end, I would like to set up a meeting with you and your colleagues to discuss how we
might enable the operators of recreational craft to comply with e-Borders
requirements in a way that is practical, simple and cost effective.
I would be pleased to discuss this with you, and in particular would welcome your
input on potential issues and on the practicalities of the introduction and operation of
this scheme.
Thank you for your consideration in this matter.
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date: 7 Sep 2006
It was good to meet you and ……. today. Thanks for taking the time to travel down to
us.
On reflection I think the communication aspects are going to be the initial priority and
any ‘formal’ statements or additional information you can provide will be very useful.
Although I cannot confirm what our response to the consultation will be I doubt that
the RYA will oppose the proposals outright, although there may be some principles
that we wish to safeguard.
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
With regard to future meetings, we discussed two possibilities being a meeting at the
boatshow and an invitation for you and/ or ……. to attend the RYA Cruising
Committee to give a brief overview of the proposals.
The Cruising Committee meet at 1130 on 20 September. If you are able to make the
start of this meeting then we can go on to the show afterwards. Alternatively, I can
meet from early afternoon onwards on either 15/18/19/ or 21 September. I will try to
get ……. from the BMF to join us.
Can you please forward this e-mail to ……. so he has our contact details?
Kind regards
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date: 11 April 2008
Further to our meeting at our offices on 18 March 2008 in relation to the above, we
agreed to revert to you on a number of issues, namely:-
1. To consider the most appropriate means of identifying vessels;
2. To give an indication as to the proportion of yachtsmen who do not have
access to the internet;
3. To consider a possible trial of a mobile data capture device;
4. To produce draft Frequently Asked Questions for inclusion in the Autumn
2008 edition of the RYA magazine, for your comment;
5. To raise e-Borders as an item for the European Boating Association; and
6. To provide a definition of “passengers”, as distinct from “crew”.
Taking each of the above in turn:-
1. We believe that the most appropriate means of identifying vessels would be
by reference to the vessel’s national registration. The advantages of using the
national registration system are that (1) unlike identification systems such as
Hull Identification Numbers under the Recreational Craft Directive,
registration is available to all yachts regardless of age, origin or nationality;
(2) the vessel registration system in the UK is already in existence and is
operated by the MCA (UK Ship Register) in Cardiff, so the system is already
widely understood by yachtsmen and no additional infrastructure is required;
and (3) all vessels navigating international or foreign waters are obliged under
the 1982 Law of the Sea Convention to be registered with their national
authorities, so all UK vessels leaving UK waters and all foreign vessels
entering UK waters are already under an obligation to be registered and thus
no additional legislation is required.
2. Unfortunately, we do not hold information as to whether our members have
access to the internet. According to figures published in 2007 by the Office of
National Statistics, however, only 61% of households in the UK have internet
access and only 67% of UK adults (i.e. individuals over 16) had accessed the
internet in the three months preceding the research being carried out. For this
reason, we believe that it is necessary for there to be an “alternative” means of
submitting the appropriate data to e-Borders and, by virtue of its accessibility
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
to everyone, we would suggest that postal submission (with an option to fax)
would be the most comprehensive and effective alternative.
3. Whether or not a data capture trial is feasible will depend on the purpose of
the trial. If the intention is to demonstrate to our members how the technology
works by, for example, displaying the data without retaining it then we might
be able to arrange a trial during one of our events over the summer but we do
not have any appropriate opportunities within the April 2008 timeframe
originally proposed. The first realistic opportunity we will have to conduct
such a trial is likely to be our sail cruise in mid-June. If, on the other hand, the
intention is to retain the data captured then it might be unrealistic to run the
trial until nearer the intended launch date.
4. Please find attached an initial draft of the Frequently Asked Questions
feature, the contents of which we would like to agree with you, so that we can
publish them in our quarterly magazine.
[Article regarding FAQs “e-
Borders e-xplained” which appeared in the Autumn 2008 edition of RYA
Magazine]
5. We will raise e-Borders at the forthcoming EBA meeting next week. You
would also, however, be most welcome to give a presentation at a future
meeting of the EBA. The meeting in October 2008 is due to be in Dubrovnik
and the April 2009 meeting in Dublin.
6. The definition of “passenger” for the purposes of Merchant Shipping
legislation is primarily derived from case law, although the Merchant Shipping
(Survey and Certification) Regulations 1995 define a “passenger” as being
“any person carried on a ship except: (a) a person employed or engaged in any
capacity on the business of the ship, (b) a person on board the ship either in
pursuance of the obligation laid upon the master to carry shipwrecked,
distressed or other persons, or by reason of any circumstance that neither the
master nor the owner nor the charterer (if any) could have prevented or
forestalled, (c) a child of under one year of age.” Following the 1984 case of
Secretary of State for Trade v. Booth (the “BICHE”), in which it was held that
individuals on a sailing vessel who had paid for the excursion but who were
also actively involved in the sailing of the vessel were nevertheless
“passengers”, the Department for Transport produced Merchant Shipping
Notice M1194 setting out its interpretation the definition of “passenger”. An
extract of MSN 1194 is attached, although this MSN has since been
withdrawn. In any event, in our view the case of the “BICHE” means that
many individuals on board recreational craft will be “passengers” for the
purposes of the Merchant Shipping legislation and it may therefore be difficult
for them then to be classified as “crew” for e-Borders purposes.
We would be happy to discuss the above points in more detail, particularly the draft
Frequently Asked Questions. The deadline for submitting articles for the Autumn
edition of our magazine is June so we would therefore suggest a meeting at your
offices some time during May, if that would be convenient to you.
We look forward to hearing from you.
With kind regards
Email from RYA to UKBA
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
Date 23 Apr 2008
I attach a copy of a notice that has been sent to us by an interested party. I understand
that this Notice appears in the window of a local Harbour Master’s Office.
A couple of points arise which I would be grateful if you could clarify:
1) I am not aware that there is currently any obligation for pleasure craft to report to
the UK Immigration Service.
2) Is the Agency disseminating information within the pleasure boating sector on the
e-Borders project? I cannot the e-Borders Team mentioning this at its meetings with
the RYA.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date 12 May 2008
I wonder if you have had a chance to consider my email of 23rd April and indeed
…….. email of 11th April? I am ever conscious that time, it appears, is always against
me. I am specifically thinking about the timescale for finalising the FAQs for the
RYA Magazine.
I also understand that ……. is keen to set up another meeting, which he was hoping to
arrange in May, we would therefore be grateful to hear from you with your proposed
dates.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
Email from UKBA to RYA
Date: 14 May 2008
Apologies for the delay in response. I have extracted this from …… in box and am
conscious some time has passed.
With regard to the poster in the harbour master’s office under the 1971 Immigration
Act all passengers and crew arriving in the UK are subject to immigration controls.
This applies equally across all modes of transport. Under the 1971 Act, Schedule 2,
para 27 (2) (a and b) there is an obligation to provide a passenger list and particulars
of members of the crew.
This requirement applies equally to pleasure craft arriving from outside the UK.
I have spoken to the Immigration officers at Southampton and I understand they have
been placing posters like this in harbour master offices to raise awareness of this
requirement. This is completely separate to e-Borders.
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
With regard to raising awareness of e-Borders legislation and the implication for
pleasure boaters we would still very much like to use you as the conduit as you
already have the avenues in place and know your audience.
I hope this answers your enquiry.
Email UKBA to RYA
Date: 21 May 2008
As we discussed in order to answer your enquiry about the notice in harbour master
offices rather than me go back to Southampton asking the questions it probably makes
more sense if you speak to them directly.
Email UKBA to RYA
Date: 25 May 2008
Following our discussion on the phone the other day, I have done some web surfing
with mixed results.
The original Statutory Instrument specifying the requirements outlined in Para 27 of
Schedule 2 to the Immigration Act 1971
(http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1971/cukpga_19710077_en_1)
was No. 1667 of 1972. Try as I might I cannot find a copy of this SI - you however
may have a better reference library. What I did find was SI No. 5 of 2008
(http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/uksi_20080005_en_1) which provides the detail
you require in Schedule 1 and also shows the amendment trail from SI 1667/1972
through 980/1975 and then to 912/2000.
I also attach a copy of the IMO standard crew list form (IMO FAL5) which complies
with current requirements.
You also questioned the application of these requirements to 'pleasure craft' as well
as commercial shipping. Whereas it is true to say that the word 'ship' is used
throughout the relevant legislation, the definition of 'ship' in Section 33 of the
Immigration Act 1971 is -
"includes every description of vessel used in navigation." So that just about seems to cover everything that floats.
My colleague, ……………………. has local responsibility for small ports, airfields
and marinas in our district and he or I would be happy to answer any other queries
you may have
Email from UKBA to RYA
Date: 28 May 2008
Many thanks for your very prompt response to the questions raised at our meeting. I
apologise for the time it has taken to get back to you. Attached is the Q&A, with only
minor amendments. We are running out of time to meet in May, although if by chance
you were able to make the 29 May we could meet tomorrow. Alternatively are you
able to make any of the following:
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
2 June
5 June pm
6 June
9 June
10 June
I look forward to meeting you again.
Email from UKBA to RYA
Date: 22 Aug 2008
I am pleased to attach the amended RYA mag copy for your comments.
My editor informs me that we will be adding another picture (of motorboats) to the
article.
Can you provide us with your website links to ‘roll-out’ and ‘general updates’ –
which we can then add to the copy.
Look forward to receiving your comments on the copy. Our deadline is the middle of
next week for final comment – I hope that this deadline does not cause you any
inconvenience, if it does do let me know.
Email UKBA to RYA
Date 05 Sep 2008
I do accept you have done everything possible to try to ensure the article is as accurate
as possible but just wanted to add some comments as follows:
How will it affect recreational boaters? – e-Borders applies when a craft lands
somewhere outside of the UK, if a boater went out for a sail but did not land and
returned to the UK we do not need to be notified.
Information required – TDI is as follows:
Full name
Gender
Date of birth
Nationality
Travel Document number (not necessarily passport)
Travel Document type
Travel Document expiry date
Travel Document Issuing state
Which is slightly different to that quoted.
When must the information be provided?
There has been a slight change here and the data can only be provided from 24 hours
prior to departure.
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
Do I have to re-submit data for every voyage?
The e-Borders system will not have the ability to re-cycle data and data will be
required for all trips, both inbound and outbound.
I apologise for not picking this up before and hope this does not cause you too much
trouble.
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date: 06 Sep 2008
The late submission of the team’s amendments is unfortunate, as it is too late for us to
incorporate them – we will have to run an update in the winter mag. Perhaps we can
liaise over this in early November – that way you can identify whether there have
been any further changes.
Can you tell me what you mean by Travel Document?
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date: 12 Sep 2008
I attach a copy of the joint e-Borders and RYA Q&As which appears in the Autumn
edition of the RYA mag.
Having approved the final copy your team notified us of the following changes:
How will it affect recreational boaters? e-Borders applies when a craft lands somewhere outside of the UK, if a boater went
out for a sail but did not land and returned to the UK we do not need to be notified.
Information required TDI is as follows: Full name
Gender
Date of birth
Nationality
Travel Document number (not necessarily passport)
Travel Document type
Travel Document expiry date
Travel Document Issuing state
When must the information be provided? There has been a slight change here and the data can only be provided from 24 hours
prior to departure.
Do I have to re-submit data for every voyage? The e-Borders system will not have the ability to re-cycle data and data will be
required for all trips, both inbound and outbound.
In light of e-Borders’ proposed changes to the scheme for pleasure boaters, which in
our opinion are fundamental, I would like to invite your team to attend a meeting at
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
our offices, at a time convenient to you in order to discuss the proposed changes.
From our point of view it may well be beneficial to include Trusted Borders in the
meeting.
Having now introduced the scheme to our membership in outline, we will need to
produce updates in our quarterly mag; it will therefore be of great assistance to us to
keep in communication with your team and indeed to be consulted as to updates and
proposed changes. With this in mind it would be useful to the meeting either towards
the end of September as copy for our next mag is the beginning of October.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Email from UKBA to RYA
Date: 12 Sep 2008
Can I suggest we catch up at the Boat show next week? I will be there on Thursday if
this is convenient for you. If not, the next date I have is 03/10/08.
I had thought that we made it clear that unless there was a landing involved that there
would be no obligation to report the voyage to e-Borders. I would think this should
make things simpler for recreational boaters. We can clarify this in subsequent
communications.
The change from passport to travel document does not make any real difference. Our
comms generally speak about Travel Documents so that EU ID Cards and Refugee
Documents etc. are included. This is not a substantive change and I think that what
was published adequately sets out our requirements.
The issue of the timing of data submission is one that we are still working through. I
will be in a better position to speak about this next week. I do not want to complicate
data submission for your members.
The recycling issue is a difficult one- I think there has been confusion over what is
possible systemically within the e-Borders main system and what could be achieved at
the front end regarding data submission.
I hope this helps in the meantime, and thank you for your commitment to the
programme and for publicising it in the magazine.
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date: 12 Sep 2008
Thursday is good for us – how does 12.30 suit you?
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date: 22 Sep 2008
Good to see you last week
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
As discussed I attach a draft of the update for the RYA winter mag for your
information and comment. It is very much in draft form at this stage so please do feel
free to make any proposed amendments.
Look forward to hearing from you
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date: 04 Nov 2008
I hope you are keeping well.
We are beginning to receive responses from our members following the Autumn
Edition of the RYA Mag.
I would be grateful if you could confirm whether there is existing legislation in place
that covers the powers required to bring the scheme into force and, if so, can you
direct me to the legislation and the relevant sections. I assume that the authority for
the scheme stems from the Immigration Asylum and Nationality Act 2006, (does the
Immigration Act 1971 impact on the scheme?). If not can you confirm what statutory
powers will be sought and let me have details of proposed draft Regulations etc.
I shall start collating FAQs and perhaps (depending on how many we have) send
some over to you for reply with a view to publishing in a further edition of the RYA
Mag
Regards
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date: 05 Nov 2008
An interesting point has arisen in respect of how the e-Borders scheme is envisaged to
apply between Northern and Southern Ireland? Effectively on land in Ireland there is
no land border. We wonder how the programme will apply to boats going north and
south (and vise versa) in Ireland?
Regards
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date: 14 Nov 2008
Hope you are keeping well. I have been asked a question, which may well later form
part of the FAQs we discussed producing between our respective organisations but in
the meantime I would like to be able to answer this inquiry direct.
If a boat has a duty to notify (i.e. a land to land voyage), what is the procedure if an
unexpected guest/crew arrived to join the party at the last minute (e.g. just prior to
departure) or indeed there is a change of crew/guest during the voyage, e.g. due to
illness? Does the skipper have a duty to update e-Borders? Or is this similar to
voyage changes i.e. on a reasonable endeavours basis?
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
Regards
Email from UKBA to RYA
Date 08 Jan 2009
Many apologies for the delay.
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date: 08 Jan 2009
Unfortunately, some of the answers you have provided to the FAQs appear to conflict
with or contradict advice you have given previously and I would not be able to
publish the FAQs as they stand without risking confusing our members.
For example, in the Autumn 2008 Edition of the RYA Mag, the Team’s response to
the question ‘what happens if my plans change during my voyage?’ was ‘once the
TDI and SI information have been submitted the e-Borders system assumes arrive and
departure. The e-Borders team has taken onboard the nuances involved in
recreational boating. It understands that voyage plans may have to change, for
example due to weather conditions, illness of crew/passengers. The requirement to
provide accurate information is on a best endeavours basis thereby acknowledging
that it may not necessarily be practicable to update the data if a voyage changes, for
example, due to a marina lacking the necessary technical facilities, non-marina
anchoring, however, it may be possible to update information on a voluntarily basis.’
Indeed in the past you have advised, in response to the following scenario:
Q: If a boat has a duty to notify (i.e. a land to land voyage), what is the procedure if
an unexpected guest/crew arrived to join the party at the last minute (e.g. just prior to
departure) or indeed there is a change of crew/guest during the voyage, e.g. due to
illness? Does the skipper have a duty to update e-Borders? Or is this similar to
voyage changes i.e. on a reasonable endeavours basis?
A: If unexpected guest joins the boat, this would, fall under the heading of
“reasonable endeavours”. In relation to unexpected departure due to illness, this
would fall under the exceptional situation. I don’t’ think it would be reasonable for us
to expect data before we allowed a sick person to be taken off the boat.
The Team’s advice (particularly in relation to questions 3 and 4) appears now to be
less accommodating towards notification and unexpected/unplanned changes to crew
and voyage plans, apparently disregarding the previously acknowledged ‘nuances’
involved in recreational boating.
Perhaps you would therefore urgently reconsider your response to questions 1, 4, 5,
and 7:
·
1. The question assumes that TDI and SI have already been provided. In such
circumstances, would the master of the vessel need to provide updated TDI and SI in
the event the information has changed?
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
·
4. For consistency with previous advice, presumably there should be reference
to ‘reasonable endeavours’?
·
5. The circumstances in question 5 are different from those in question 4 – in
the circumstances in question 4 the master may well be in a position to update the TDI
and SI reasonably soon after the change of plan (particularly if returning to port or
diverting to another port at the last minute). Question 5, on the other hand, is intended
to relate to yachts that may have crossed the Atlantic or the Bay of Biscay and were
therefore last in port some weeks previously. It would therefore help our members if
the answers to these two questions reflected the different circumstances, although the
answer to both may be that the master should simply use reasonable endeavours to
notify any changes.
·
7. Our understanding was that the legal responsibility for providing data rests
with the master of the vessel, but not the capture of the data.
·
9. We would, of course, be happy to work with the Team to help identify ways
to raise awareness among non-UK boaters visiting the UK, but I don’t believe that
this could reasonably be described as work in progress.
As you know, I am now up against a very tight deadline for publication. Please would
you therefore confirm whether you would be able to provide me with revised answers
to the FAQs by close of business tomorrow?
Regards
Email from UKBA to RYA
Date: 19 Jan 2009
Hopefully this meets your requirements. Let me know if not.
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date: 19 Jan 2009
I appreciate your time and help on this.
I’ve made a tiny amendment to the question and I believe your revised answer is more
explanatory to the boating public.
I wonder if I could ask you to take a quick look at Q.10 as I do not believe the answer
actually answers the question. Is there any chance of it being revised to answer the
question?
Regards
Email from UKBA to RYA
Date: 19 Jan 2009
Please see amendment to question 10
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date: 19 Jan 2009
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
Thanks for that. I am hoping that my editor will now accept our changes.
Thanks for all your help.
Best wishes
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date: 05 Mar 2009
I hope you are well.
I wish to reproduce a copy of HMRC’s C1331 in the next edition of the RYA and I
wonder if you are able to authorise this or put me in touch with the relevant person?
Also I wonder if you have details of UK Customs’ pre-1993 reporting requirements,
relevant forms etc?
Regards
Email from UKBA to RYA
Date: 19 Mar 2009
Sorry for the delay in replying but the following is the response that has been passed
to me by HMRC legal colleagues.
“HMRC colleagues responsible for pleasure craft matters advise me that as a result of
the changes to the travellers’ duty-free allowances last December/January, there are a
number of forms currently under revision including the C1331. Given that the
information on the current version of the form now conflicts with that shown for
pleasure craft users in our Public Notice 1, HMRC would not be keen to see the
current form published as it could lead to confusion and people getting their duty-free
allowances wrong.
As the C1331 and related documentation hasn’t been reviewed recently, HMRC is
taking the opportunity to do this now and updated forms should be ready within a
couple of months.
As to pre-1993 reporting arrangements I’m afraid that this information is not now
readily available. We can say that prior to 1993, all pleasure craft arriving in the UK
(whether based here or not) were subject to reporting requirements. Of course, after
1993 and the introduction of the Single Market, the need for routine inwards reporting
of craft arriving from another Member State was removed and report only required
where goods need to be declared or immigration clearance required.”
When seeking a progress report on the reviewing of the C1331 it might be quicker to
go directly to HMRC’s Pleasure Craft Unit of Expertise. I have been led to believe
you have a contact (we don’t directly). If you don’t, let me know and I will go back
for a name.
Email from RYA to UKBA
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
Date: 08 May 2009
Further to our conversation this morning I understand that the next EBA meeting is
due to be held in Prague on 16th and 17th October 2009. Following that there will be a
meeting in Amsterdam sometime in April 2010.
Best wishes
Email from UKBA to RYA
Date: 11 May
I have copied in ……. as from memory she sent me the booking form for the event in
Dubrovnik. I understand at the recent meeting with ……… we gave an undertaking to
attend this event. Please could you send me any details that are available currently
about this.
Many thanks
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date: 14 May 2009
Sorry for late reply. Our next EBA meeting is in Prague over weekend 16 – 18
October and then in April 2010 in Amsterdam, dates yet to be confirmed
Email from UKBA to RYA
Date: 14 May 2009
Once more is known about the event in Prague please can you let me have the detail.
From memory we were going to give a presentation on e-Borders, would this still be
the best approach?
Thanks for getting back to me.
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date: 14 May 2009
I will let you have more detail on the EBA meeting as is shapes up. In the meantime,
we will need to see how eborders is shaping up before we decide if Prague would be
the best time for a presentation
Kind Regards
Email from UKBA to RYA
Date: 14 May 2009
We will take our lead from you as to the most appropriate time to engage at this
forum.
Email from RYA to UKBA
Date 14 May 2009
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
No problem
Regards
Letter from UKBA to RYA
Date: 25 June 2009
RYA
RYA House
Ensign Way, Hamble
Southampton
SO31 4YA
Thank you for your letter of 5th June. I agree that the meeting we held on 5th May was
both useful and constructive.
In your letter you raise two principal issues. The first of these is whether the UK
Government should seek to secure its sea border. You agree that it should and I am
grateful for your support in this. You describe the second issue as whether the
Government’s proposals are reasonable, proportionate to the risk and likely to be
effective. In relation to this second point, you raise a number of concerns. I think it
will be helpful if I deal with each of these in turn.
Firstly, you express concern about whether e-Borders is the appropriate mechanism to
secure the borders for leisure boating and, in this regard, express some concerns over
the terminology currently available on the UK Border Agency website. I would ask
you to note that “carrier” is a generic term that applies to all vessels. Although we use
airlines, ferries and rail companies as examples, this is not a comprehensive list, and
the term also applies to leisure boats and private planes.
As you are aware, we are in the early stages of programme delivery and our current
focus is on commercial carriers. It is at them that the published material is primarily
aimed. However, you are right to highlight that the language used may not be helpful
in the leisure boating context, and we shall endeavour to use more appropriate
language when we produce information targeted specifically at the leisure maritime
sector.
You are also right to point out that the current published material is aimed at those
commercial carriers who would collect this data as part of their business as usual
process. We accept that such a model is not applicable in the leisure boating arena. It
is our intention to implement a solution that is simple to use and as flexible as
possible and this is why we are committed to an ongoing conversation with you and
this sector. The comprehensive explanation that you seek is not yet fully formed as
the very valuable input you have given to the Programme has, and is still, informing
the final design of our solution.
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
You say that you believe any mechanism to secure the border in relation to
recreational boating will only work if it does not impose undue burdens on law-
abiding citizens. This is our belief too, and is the reason we are keen to ensure your
concerns are not only heard, but also form part of our development of a leisure
boating model.
You have expressed concern that the solution as described so far will not provide an
effective means of securing the border. If e-Borders were simply an IT system this
would be true. However, e-Borders is a system of border management enabled by
technology and the information it gathers from all those entering and leaving the UK.
Our intention remains to use the opportunities presented by the system to enable the
border in all its aspects to be managed in a secure, efficient and proportionate manner.
You make reference to Operation Kraken and other initiatives centred on the leisure
maritime sector. It is our intention to enhance the capability of such operations by
exploiting the data received by e-Borders to allow them to be more frequent and more
effective.
You mention the record of Government in handling and securing personal data. I can
assure you that this programme has not only taken note of any lapses but has used
these as learning to ensure that data supplied to the e-Borders system cannot be lost
misplaced or otherwise misused. Stringent controls have been put in place to protect
data collected through this system.
Everyone with access to the system has been security cleared, with only a limited
number of people able to access the full database. These individuals will have
undergone the highest security vetting procedures and face severe sanctions for data
misuse. The computer systems have been security accredited surpassing recognised
international industry standards and the Information Commissioner has been actively
involved in the development of the e-Borders system to ensure that the system meets
his high standards. A statutory code of practice is also in place which regulates the
use of information.
I am pleased that you remain committed to the aim of a secure and well managed
border and I can assure you that I will continue in my efforts to ensure that the
solution for the leisure boating community is one that is simple and secure.
Yours sincerely
Email from UKBA to RYA
Date: 13 Nov 2009
It was good to meet with you and apologies for the delay in issuing the notes of the
meeting. With reference to action point 1 – meeting up again prior to the London Boat
Show, please can you let me know if you would be able to make the 7th, 9th or 11th
December.
Many thanks
Email attachment – Minutes of meeting 22 Oct 2009:
Meeting with British Maritime Federation and Royal Yachting Association
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
22 October 2008 (N.B. This date should have read 2009)
Attendees:
1. Introductions
2. …………… gave an overview of e-Borders and gave a copy of the presentation
used at the Southampton Boat Show to ……………….
3. …………. detailed some of the feedback from the Southampton Boat Show, as
follows:
3.1 Some misconceptions – such as data has to be submitted 24 hours in advance
3.2 Common theme that the proposed solution unworkable in practice.
3.3 Condemnation of relying on internet access to submit data – many said a more
flexible method of data submission had to be provided if there was any chance that
the system would be workable in the leisure boating context. Most popular proposal
was text messaging.
3.4 Concern that planned and actual voyages are often different – keen to see a means
of updating data or a firm declaration that we would not seek to prosecute where
every effort had been made to supply data.
3.5 Concern about last minute crew changes and our expectations in such situations.
4. Discussion of proposed alternative interfaces
4.1 Text messaging – …………. suggested looking at schemes such as “RingGo” –
commonly used in car parks to pay for parking by mobile phone.
4.2 Enabling the e-Borders website with cookies that would allow TDI and SI to be
retained and triggered for submission by a simple text message.
4.3 Use of VHF radio. …………..said this was insecure and did not feel this option
should be progressed.
…………… said once options have been explored and those viable for progression
identified, BMF would be keen to communicate this to the industry. They have access
to the majority of marinas.
5. Discussion about channels of communication
5.1 BMF has access to marinas
5.2 Yacht Harbour Association, provide moorings and hold quarterly meetings at
BMF, Egham
5.3 BMF has communication links with large and small marine operators.
5.4 …………. said …………., BPA, useful channel of communication
6. Preparation for London Boat Show – Jan 2010
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
……….. said there is a stage at the London Boat Show, if appropriate we may use this
presentation opportunity if we are near a solution.
Action Point (AP)1 – BMF, RYA and e-Borders to meet mid December to
understand topical issues prior to the London Boat Show.
7. Stakeholder engagement avenues
7.1 ………….. supplied a list of forthcoming shows, he said of particular relevance
are:
“Boot Düsseldorf “ – January 23-31 2010 in Germany and the Belgian Boat Show 6-
14 February 2010. Also of interest may be the Marine Equipment Trade Shows
(METS), held in Amsterdam in November 2009.
……………… said there are two trade magazines – International Boat Industry (IBI)
and Boating Business
AP2 – …………. to send …………… electronic copies of the “overview of the
legislation” and “e-Borders Leisure craft making international journeys – your
questions answered”
AP3 – ……………. offered to arrange a visit for e-Borders around the south
coast to see marine and harbour operators and clubs
AP4 –……………. to forward dates of forthcoming meetings of interest.
Agenda sent to RYA from UKBA
Date: 10 Dec 2009
VISIT BY THE ROYAL YACHTING ASSOCIATION
TO HM CUTTER VALIANT
10 DECEMBER 2009
OUTLINE AGENDA
TIME VISITORS’
SHIP’S PROGRAMME
PROGRAMME
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc
0930
UKBA party arrives
Meeting with Commander to discuss day’s
programme
1030 Royal
Yachting
Introductions
Association
1030 –
Introductions and brief tour
Prepare to sail
1100
of cutter, to include full
safety briefing
1100 –
Presentation on Maritime’s
Slip and proceed to Solent /IOW area
1200
role and work and Q&A
1200-
Observe operations of the
Western Solent for short patrol to
1300
cutter/RIB including
demonstrate operations
boarding demonstration
1300 –
Lunch and discussions on
Return to Berth
1400
maritime/e-Borders
1400 –
Wash up and next steps
1430
1430 Depart
2010-01-12 FOI 13519 1.01.doc