Taxi Fare

Dave Stephens, Butcher made this Rhyddid Gwybodaeth request to Transport for London

This request has been closed to new correspondence from the public body. Contact us if you think it ought be re-opened.

Roedd y cais yn rhannol lwyddiannus.

Dave Stephens, Butcher

Dear Transport for London,

First, let me offer my congratulations on a very thorough fare structure. My F.O.I. request is as follows:

Owing to what reasoning is a fare determination down to the tenth of a second necessary?

Owing to what reasoning is fare determination down to the tenth of a metre?

Owing ot what reasoning is fare determination down to one tenth of one mile per hour of speed (10.4 mph).

Please provide minutes of the entire meeting at which you arrived at your current fare structure.

Please provide minutes of all opportunities by which the public was allowed to lend its input on this fare structure.

Please provide minutes of all fare structure meetings back to the point that metres were first adopted for fares, and the reasoning for a change from yards. As doubtless, the numbers of yards employed on the prior structure were equally arbitrary, please provide all fare structures back until the point where the number of yards corresponded to a sensible fraction of a mile, by which a passenger would be able to estimate fare. I trust this does not go back to the time when a Mr Sherlock Holmes was hailing a taxi, but then again, I could be wrong! I think Mr Holmes would be sick of the current fare structure, and that a decent member of your organisation would be utterly ashamed at the lack of transparency here!

Please provide minutes and structures of all fares back to the point that fare yardages corresponded to a fraction of a mile, and provide the minutes wherein it was discussed divorcing yards from sensible fractions of a mile.

Please provide minutes of all opportunities for public comment on such changes.

Finally please provide minutes of any meetings containing the rationale to use metres for fares, with distances in yards and miles for roads. Surely there is a sensible reason, and a desire for governmental transparency, and not just an attempt to make fare structure so daft, that, outside of a mathematician, it is impossible to estimate, to any degree of certainy, fare, without a scientific calculator!

I look forward to receiving correspondence as to your methods and reasoning in this regard,

Dave Stephens, Butcher

FOI, Transport for London

Dear Mr Butcher

TfL Ref: 1204-1516

Thank you for your email received by Transport for London (TfL) on 2 October 2015. I am sorry for the delay in acknowledging your correspondence.

Your request will be processed in accordance with the requirements of the Freedom of Information Act and TfL’s information access policy.

A response will be provided to you by 30 October 2015. We publish a substantial range of information on our website on subjects including operational performance, contracts, expenditure, journey data, governance and our financial performance. This includes data which is frequently asked for in FOI requests or other public queries. Please check http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transpar... to see if this helps you.

In the meantime, if you would like to discuss this matter further, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely

Jasmine Howard
FOI Case Officer
FOI Case Management Team
General Counsel
Transport for London

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

FOI, Transport for London

7 Atodiad

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Dear Mr Stephens

 

TfL Ref: FOI-1204-1516

 

Thank you for your email received by us on 2 October asking for
information about taxi fares and tariffs.

 

Your request has been considered in accordance with the requirements of
the Freedom of Information Act and our Information Access Policy. I can
confirm we hold some of the information you require. You asked for the
following:

 

To what reasoning is a fare determination down to the tenth of a second
necessary?

To what reasoning is fare determination down to the tenth of a metre?

To what reasoning is fare determination down to one tenth of one mile per
hour of speed (10.4 mph).

 

The regulation of taxi fares was originally undertaken by the Department
for Transport prior to (Transport For London) TfL taking over
responsibility for this. We do not hold any information about why this
degree of precision was chosen for the speed, time and distance. However,
the figures used for the speed (10.4mph) and for the different tariff
rates are calculated to the same precision as prior to TfL taking over
responsibility for the regulation of taxi fares in London. These figures
are provided to the taximeter companies to programme their meters and have
worked satisfactorily so far with no problems being raised by the meter
companies about the degree of precision of the figures.

 

Minutes of the entire meeting at which you arrived at your current fare
structure.

Minutes of all opportunities by which the public was allowed to lend its
input on this fare structure.

 

We do not hold minutes but we hold a public consultation each year and all
responses are analysed and summarised for the TfL board. A public
consultation on the current taxi fares and tariffs was held in 2013, which
everyone could respond to. The consultation is still available to read
here: [4]https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/taxis/f....
Attached is a copy of the TfL Board paper regarding taxi fares and tariffs
and the minutes from this meeting. It was at this meeting that the changes
to the taxi fares and tariffs were approved.

 

There were also public consultations in 2012 and 2013 and attached are the
consultation papers.

 

TfL normally reviews the taxi fares every year and a new consultation has
been launched.  Anyone can respond to this via:
[5]https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tph/tax...
The closing date for the consultation  is 21 December 2015.

 

Changes to taxi fares and tariffs are approved by the TfL Board and a
paper submitted to them for their consideration is available here:
[6]https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publication...

 

Minutes of all fare structure meetings back to the point that metres were
first adopted for fares, and the reasoning for a change from yards.

Minutes and structures of all fares back to the point that fare yardages
corresponded to a fraction of a mile, and provide the minutes wherein it
was discussed divorcing yards from sensible fractions of a mile.

Minutes of any meetings containing the rationale to use metres for fares,
with distances in yards and miles for roads. Surely there is a sensible
reason, and a desire for governmental transparency, and not just an
attempt to make fare structure so daft, that, outside of a mathematician,
it is impossible to estimate, to any degree of certainty, fare, without a
scientific calculator.

Minutes of all opportunities for public comment on such changes.

 

Attached are taxi fare cards form 1998 and 2001, which shows the distances
in metres. TfL only took over responsibility for regulating taxi fares in
2000, before this fares were regulated and reviewed by the Department for
Transport and they would hold any information about when any switch was
made from yards to metres. Therefore, we do not hold any minutes of the
fare structure prior to this date or the minutes of any opportunities the
public were given to comment on this change.

 

If this is not the information you are looking for, or if you are unable
to access it for some reason, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Please see the attached information sheet for details of your right to
appeal as well as information on copyright and what to do if you would
like to re-use any of the information we have disclosed.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Jasmine Howard

FOI Case Officer

 

FOI Case Management Team

General Counsel

Transport for London

 

 

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

FOI, Transport for London

7 Atodiad

Dear Mr Butcher,

 

My apologies for the error in my previous email, please see the following
response to your Freedom of Information request about taxi fares and
tariffs.

 

Kind regards

 

Jasmine Howard

FOI Case Officer

FOI Case Management Team

General Counsel

Transport for London

 

 

From: FOI
Sent: 30 October 2015 15:00
To: '[FOI #294914 email]'
Subject: Freedom of Information request

 

Dear Mr Stephens

 

TfL Ref: FOI-1204-1516

 

Thank you for your email received by us on 2 October asking for
information about taxi fares and tariffs.

 

Your request has been considered in accordance with the requirements of
the Freedom of Information Act and our Information Access Policy. I can
confirm we hold some of the information you require. You asked for the
following:

 

To what reasoning is a fare determination down to the tenth of a second
necessary?

To what reasoning is fare determination down to the tenth of a metre?

To what reasoning is fare determination down to one tenth of one mile per
hour of speed (10.4 mph).

 

The regulation of taxi fares was originally undertaken by the Department
for Transport prior to (Transport For London) TfL taking over
responsibility for this. We do not hold any information about why this
degree of precision was chosen for the speed, time and distance. However,
the figures used for the speed (10.4mph) and for the different tariff
rates are calculated to the same precision as prior to TfL taking over
responsibility for the regulation of taxi fares in London. These figures
are provided to the taximeter companies to programme their meters and have
worked satisfactorily so far with no problems being raised by the meter
companies about the degree of precision of the figures.

 

Minutes of the entire meeting at which you arrived at your current fare
structure.

Minutes of all opportunities by which the public was allowed to lend its
input on this fare structure.

 

We do not hold minutes but we hold a public consultation each year and all
responses are analysed and summarised for the TfL board. A public
consultation on the current taxi fares and tariffs was held in 2013, which
everyone could respond to. The consultation is still available to read
here: [1]https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/taxis/f....
Attached is a copy of the TfL Board paper regarding taxi fares and tariffs
and the minutes from this meeting. It was at this meeting that the changes
to the taxi fares and tariffs were approved.

 

There were also public consultations in 2012 and 2013 and attached are the
consultation papers.

 

TfL normally reviews the taxi fares every year and a new consultation has
been launched.  Anyone can respond to this via:
[2]https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tph/tax...
The closing date for the consultation  is 21 December 2015.

 

Changes to taxi fares and tariffs are approved by the TfL Board and a
paper submitted to them for their consideration is available here:
[3]https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publication...

 

Minutes of all fare structure meetings back to the point that metres were
first adopted for fares, and the reasoning for a change from yards.

Minutes and structures of all fares back to the point that fare yardages
corresponded to a fraction of a mile, and provide the minutes wherein it
was discussed divorcing yards from sensible fractions of a mile.

Minutes of any meetings containing the rationale to use metres for fares,
with distances in yards and miles for roads. Surely there is a sensible
reason, and a desire for governmental transparency, and not just an
attempt to make fare structure so daft, that, outside of a mathematician,
it is impossible to estimate, to any degree of certainty, fare, without a
scientific calculator.

Minutes of all opportunities for public comment on such changes.

 

Attached are taxi fare cards form 1998 and 2001, which shows the distances
in metres. TfL only took over responsibility for regulating taxi fares in
2000, before this fares were regulated and reviewed by the Department for
Transport and they would hold any information about when any switch was
made from yards to metres. Therefore, we do not hold any minutes of the
fare structure prior to this date or the minutes of any opportunities the
public were given to comment on this change.

 

If this is not the information you are looking for, or if you are unable
to access it for some reason, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Please see the attached information sheet for details of your right to
appeal as well as information on copyright and what to do if you would
like to re-use any of the information we have disclosed.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Jasmine Howard

FOI Case Officer

 

FOI Case Management Team

General Counsel

Transport for London

 

 

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir