SAP skill levels for Avon & Som Police (ASP) IT staff seconded into SW1 and remote IT support arrangements?

Mae'r ymateb i'r cais hwn yn hwyr iawn. Yn ôl y gyfraith, ym mhob amgylchiad, dylai Avon and Somerset Constabulary fod wedi ymateb erbyn hyn. (manylion). Gallwch gwyno drwy yn gofyn am adolygiad mewnol.

Dear Avon and Somerset Constabulary,

SAP is a key system for ASP and business continuity is very much in the news following the RBS major IT failure.

SAP skills have three formal levels of certified qualification:

"There are three levels of certification available: Associate, Professional and Master.

Associate level covers the fundamental knowledge requirements for a consultant or project team member;

Professional level requires proven project experience, business knowledge and a more detailed understanding of the SAP solution;

Masters level (in development) involves demonstrating an expert level understanding a specific area of SAP software."

Q1. By each of above formal SAP certfication levels, please detail how many ASP IT staff remaining in SW1 are currently qualified as a SAP "Associate", "Professional" and "Master"?

The recent RBS major IT failure may involve remote support from supplier staff in India, even though the hardware and software installation is based here in the UK.

It is known that IBM have a major division (IGSI) in India and that 2nd and 3rd line global technical support for SAP is based there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_India

Q2. In the light of the RBS major IT failure, has ASP conducted an independent review of SAP support by IBM, to ensure that business continuity is properly protected; to ensure that major SAP updates, upgrades & fixes conducted remotely by IBM (possibly from IBM's Indian SAP support division IGSI) meet recognised ITIL, CMMI & other relevant international IT standards, so that regression and
rollback to a working state after failure can be carried out by UK-based staff in SW1? If a relevant audit or review (internal or external) has been carried out since SW1 was formed, then please disclose details?

Q3. What recognised standards has SW1 IT achieved e.g. ISO/IEC20000-1:2005, CMMI level? Please detail.

Yours faithfully,

Dave Orr

#Freedom of Information Requests, Avon and Somerset Constabulary

Corporate Information Management Department

Force Headquarters, PO Box 37, Valley Road,

Portishead, Bristol, BS20 8QJ

Facsimile 01275 814667

Private
Mr David Orr
[FOI #120300 email]
        Our Reference   507/12 
        Your reference         
        Date    3rd July 2012
       
Dear Mr Orr

Thank you for your request for information dated 27th June, relating to
SAP skill levels.  This request will be dealt with under the terms of the
Freedom of Information Act 2000.

Your request will now be considered and you will receive a response within
the statutory timescale of 20 working days as defined by the Act, In some
circumstances Avon and Somerset Constabulary may be unable to achieve this
deadline if consideration needs to be given to the public interest test.
If this is likely you will be informed and given a revised time-scale at
the earliest opportunity.

Thank you for your request.

Yours sincerely,

Freedom of Information Officer

Freedom of Information Officer
Corporate Information Management Department

Please note;

 1. Requests and responses may be published on Avon and Somerset
Constabulary’s website (within 24 hours), some of which may
contain a link to additional information, which may provide
you with further clarification.
 2. Whilst we may verbally discuss your request with you in order
to seek clarification, all other communication should be made
in writing.
 3. Avon and Somerset Constabulary provides you with the right to
request a re-examination of your case under its review
procedure.

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

#Freedom of Information Requests, Avon and Somerset Constabulary

1 Atodiad

Corporate Information Management Department

Force Headquarters, PO Box 37, Valley Road,

Portishead, Bristol, BS20 8QJ

Facsimile 01275 814667

Private

Dave Orr
[FOI #120300 email]
        Our Reference   507/12 
        Your reference         
        Date    25 July 2012   

Dear Mr Orr

I write in connection with your request for information dated 27^th June
concerning SAP.

Your request for information has now been considered and the information
asked for is contained below following your questions which appear in
bold.

Specifically you asked “SAP is a key system for ASP and business
continuity is very much in the news following the RBS major IT failure. 
SAP skills have three formal levels of certified qualification:

"There are three levels of certification available: Associate,
Professional and Master. Associate level covers the fundamental knowledge
requirements for a consultant or project team member; Professional level
requires proven project experience, business knowledge and a more detailed
understanding of the SAP solution; asters level (in development) involves
demonstrating an expert level understanding a specific area of SAP
software."

    
Q1. By each of above formal SAP certification levels, please detail how
many ASP IT staff remaining in SW1 are currently qualified as a SAP
"Associate", "Professional" and "Master"?

This information is not held by ASC
    
The recent RBS major IT failure may involve remote support from supplier
staff in India, even though the hardware and software installation is
based here in the UK. It is known that IBM have a major division (IGSI) in
India and that 2nd and 3rd line global technical support for SAP is based
there.

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_India
    
Q2. In the light of the RBS major IT failure, has ASP conducted an
independent review of SAP support by IBM, to ensure that business
continuity is properly protected; to ensure that major SAP updates,
upgrades & fixes conducted remotely by IBM (possibly from IBM's Indian SAP
support division IGSI) meet recognised ITIL, CMMI & other relevant
international IT standards, so that regression and rollback to a working
state after failure can be carried out by UK-based staff in SW1?

No
If a relevant audit or review (internal or external) has been carried out
since SW1 was formed, then please disclose details?

Not applicable
    

Q3. What recognised standards have SW1 IT achieved e.g.
ISO/IEC20000-1:2005, CMMI level? Please detail.

This information is not held by ASC

Yours sincerely

R Pritchard

Freedom of Information Officer
Corporate Information Management Department

Please note:

 1. Requests and responses may be published on Avon and Somerset
Constabulary’s website (within 24 hours), some of which may
contain a link to additional information, which may provide
you with further clarification.
 2. Whilst we may verbally discuss your request with you in order
to seek clarification, all other communication should be made
in writing.
 3. Avon and Somerset Constabulary provides you with the right to
request a re-examination of your case under its review
procedure (copy attached).

<<A&S Appeals Procedure.doc>>

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Dear Avon and Somerset Constabulary,

Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.

I am writing to request an internal review of Avon and Somerset Constabulary's handling of my FOI request 'SAP skill levels for Avon & Som Police (ASP) IT staff seconded into SW1 and remote IT support arrangements?'.

The ASC staff seconded into SW1 remain ASC employees, so you should have access to their HR & training records as the data controller.

As you have access to SAP and they remain your staff, I simply do not understand how you do not have access to the data on your own staff on your own IT system.

Additionally, it is in the public interest to gauge whether an effective skills transfer has taken place, in support of an effective worst case scenario contract exit (via risk mitigation through SAP skills transfer).

Please answer the questions.

A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/sa...

Yours faithfully,

Dave Orr

#Freedom of Information Requests, Avon and Somerset Constabulary

Corporate Information Management Department

Force Headquarters, PO Box 37, Valley Road,

Portishead, Bristol, BS20 8QJ

Facsimile 01275 814667

   

Private
Mr David Orr
[FOI #120300 email]
        Our Reference   507/12 
        Your reference         
        Date    26th July 2012 

Dear Mr Orr

I write in receipt of your letter dated 25th July 2012 requesting an
internal review regarding the response to your Freedom of Information
request.

This request has been forwarded to our internal review panel who will
respond to you in due course.

Yours sincerely,

Freedom of Information Officer

Freedom of Information Officer
Corporate Information Management Department

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Jeff Hines, Avon and Somerset Constabulary

1 Atodiad

Dear Mr Orr

Please find attached a response to your FOI appeal.

Jeff Hines
Information Access Manager
Corporate Information Management Department
Avon and Somerset Constabulary
PO Box 37, Valley Road, Bristol, BS20 8QJ
Direct Dial :  01275 816305
E -mail: [email address]

<<Letter Mr Orr Appeal 507.doc>>

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Dear Jeff Hines,

There is concern (particularly in ASPA) around the overheads of managing FOI requests under the FOI Act.

These overheads can be exacerbated by excessive contestment of FOI decisions by the "Public Authority" concerned, as well as repeated requests to obtain the information by the requester.

To date all of the ASPA/ASC FOIs I have reluctantly contested via appeal to the ICO have been wholly or largely upheld by the ICO on review.

I want to take one final step to avoid the additional public cost of an ICO appeal of your Internal Review letter.

Your Internal Review letter has puzzled me:

a) I asked only about seconded IT staff who remain ASC employees;

b) You are the Data Controller and your ICO registration covers the HR information requested for your employees, which is held within SAP, to which you have on-line and reporting access;

c) ASC/ASPA remain the owners of not just the data but also the IT asset that is SAP - SW1 only host & operate it on your behalf;

d) Surely the contract with IBM for SW1 cannot over-ride the law within the FOI Act?

I appreciate that as the ASC Information Manager you will have formal training and qualification in the FOI Act, but can I respectfully ask that you take an opinion with the ASC Legal Team to double-check your Internal Review decision, hopefully to avoid a subsequent ICO appeal.

Given it is the Bank Holiday weekend coming up, would allowing until Friday 31st August be a reasonable time to allow for that check whilst protecting my rights to appeal to the ICO?

Yours sincerely,

Dave Orr

Jeff Hines, Avon and Somerset Constabulary

1 Atodiad

Dear Mr Orr

Please find attached my follow up response to your FOI request.

Regards

Jeff Hines
Information Access Manager
CIMD
Ext. 66305

<<Letter Mr Orr Appeal 507 follow up letter.doc>>

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Dear Jeff Hines,

Does the Constabulary hold an Investors in People award. If so, please supply details.

Does the Constabulary hold any ISO accreditation. If so, please supply details.

Please supply me with a copy of the Constabulary's HR Policy on staff training and the keping & retention of training records.

Yours sincerely,

Dave Orr

#Freedom of Information Requests, Avon and Somerset Constabulary

Corporate Information Management Department

Force Headquarters, PO Box 37, Valley Road,

Portishead, Bristol, BS20 8QJ

Facsimile 01275 814667

Private
Mr Dave Orr
[FOI #120300 email]

        Our Reference   668/12 
        Your reference         
        Date    4th September 2012

       
Dear Mr Orr

Thank you for your request for information dated 1st September, concerning
questions relating to the constabulary.  This request will be dealt with
under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

Your request will now be considered and you will receive a response within
the statutory timescale of 20 working days as defined by the Act, In some
circumstances Avon and Somerset Constabulary may be unable to achieve this
deadline if consideration needs to be given to the public interest test.
If this is likely you will be informed and given a revised time-scale at
the earliest opportunity.

Thank you for your request.

Yours sincerely,

Freedom of Information Officer

Freedom of Information Officer
Corporate Information Management Department

Please note;

 1. Requests and responses may be published on Avon and Somerset
Constabulary’s website (within 24 hours), some of which may
contain a link to additional information, which may provide
you with further clarification.
 2. Whilst we may verbally discuss your request with you in order
to seek clarification, all other communication should be made
in writing.
 3. Avon and Somerset Constabulary provides you with the right to
request a re-examination of your case under its review
procedure.

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Gadawodd Dave Orr anodiad ()

The original FOI is now under appeal to the ICO.

#Freedom of Information Requests, Avon and Somerset Constabulary

Corporate Information Management Department

Force Headquarters, PO Box 37, Valley Road,

Portishead, Bristol, BS20 8QJ

Facsimile 01275 814667

   

Private

Mr David Orr

[FOI #120300 email]      Our Reference   668/12 
        Your reference         
        Date    5th September 2012

       
  

Dear Mr Orr,

Thank you for your request which I have copied below. In order for us to
provide you with the information you require some clarification is
necessary.

1. Does the Constabulary hold an Investors in People award. If so, please
supply details.
    
2. Does the Constabulary hold any ISO accreditation. If so, please supply
details.
    
3. Please supply me with a copy of the Constabulary's HR Policy on staff
training and the keeping & retention of training records.

    
Please can you clarify what particular information you are seeking.
Regarding questions 2 and 3 what specific details do you require?

I will be unable to start to process your request until I have received
your clarification.
Thank you,

Yours sincerely

Freedom of Information Officer

Freedom of Information Officer
Corporate Information Management Department

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Dear #Freedom of Information Requests,

I think the two questions are clearly stated.

They are directly relevant to the issues raised in the original FOI around the keeping of training records for staff.

To clarify evern further as requested:

Q2. Does the Police hold an Investor in People certification - if so please supply details. Investors in People covers training & skilling.

Explanation here:

http://www.investorsinpeople.co.uk/Facts...

Q3. ISO certification covers quality, processes and can be under 9001 (quality) and 27001 (security & information systems). They also cover skilling & training within the standards.

Explanation here:

http://www.british-assessment.co.uk/iso-...

http://www.bsigroup.co.uk/en/Assessment-...

Would you mnind stating what formal training & qualifications you hold as Information Manager please.

Yours sincerely,

Dave Orr

Dear #Freedom of Information Requests,

My apologies for muddling the numbers up re questions for clarification and a few typos.

The ISO response stands.

Q3. Within the Police HR Policy and any other relavent policies or documents, I am requesting any relevant pages or sections that describe the provision of training and skills and how that information is recorded after training is received and skills acquired.

Typically, that would link in to the accreditations that I have requested, as an audit trail of skills and training is best practice.

Yours sincerely,

Dave Orr

Dear #Freedom of Information Requests,

After a delayed Internal Review of exactly the same FOI, Somerset County Council (SCC) have now located and disclosed the SAP skills qualification information requested.

Your Internal Review decision was twice queried before an ICO appeal was reluctantly made (as per statutory rights under the FOIA).

To save furher public time, resources & expense, can I suggest that you contact SCC to liaise over their compliant FOIA disclosure.

You may wish to then re-consider disclosure as per SCC best practice example, so that the ICO case referral can be discontinued, to the benefit of all parties.

Yours sincerely,

Dave Orr

#Freedom of Information Requests, Avon and Somerset Constabulary

2 Atodiad

Corporate Information Management Department

Force Headquarters, PO Box 37, Valley Road,

Portishead, Bristol, BS20 8QJ

Facsimile 01275 814667

Private

Dave Orr
[1][FOI #120300 email]
        Our Reference   668/12 
        Your reference         
        Date    01 October 2012

Dear Mr Orr

I write in connection with your request for information dated 1^st
September concerning ISO accreditation, investors in people and training
records.

Your request for information has now been considered and the information
asked for is below following your questions.

Specifically you asked “Does the Constabulary hold an Investors in People
award. If so, please supply details.”
Yes the Constabulary currently holds the investors in people
accreditation.  We are currently in the process of our 2012 review.

“Does the Constabulary hold any ISO accreditation. If so, please supply
details.”
Yes, we currently have ISO 9001:2000 accreditation for all areas within
Scientific Investigations, with the current exception of the Hi-Tech Crime
Unit which we are hoping will also be accredited by December this year. 
We are also currently accredited under ISO 9001:2008 - Quality Management
Systems Certification for communications.

 “Please supply me with a copy of the Constabulary's HR Policy on staff
training and the keeping & retention of training records.”

The attachment below is an extract from the Learning and Development
Strategy document.
<<FoI Request 668.doc>>
Records are held within the Training Administration System with the skills
gained logged against each individual. In the case of student and course
records relating to courses which contain an element of pass or fail, or
where knowledge checks form an integral part of the course, then such
records will be archived in a suitable location for a period of six years
from the date of the start of the course.  Records of all other courses
will be retained for a period of 12 months.

Yours sincerely

R Pritchard

Freedom of Information Officer
Corporate Information Management Department

Please note:

 1. Requests and responses may be published on Avon and Somerset
Constabulary’s website (within 24 hours), some of which may
contain a link to additional information, which may provide
you with further clarification.
 2. Whilst we may verbally discuss your request with you in order
to seek clarification, all other communication should be made
in writing.
 3. Avon and Somerset Constabulary provides you with the right to
request a re-examination of your case under its review
procedure (copy attached).

<<A&S Appeals Procedure.doc>>

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir