Raven Video Servers

Nik Fox made this Rhyddid Gwybodaeth request to Y Gorfforaeth Ddarlledu Brydeinig

This request has been closed to new correspondence from the public body. Contact us if you think it ought be re-opened.

Mae'r ymateb i'r cais hwn yn hwyr iawn. Yn ôl y gyfraith, ym mhob amgylchiad, dylai Y Gorfforaeth Ddarlledu Brydeinig fod wedi ymateb erbyn hyn. (manylion). Gallwch gwyno drwy yn gofyn am adolygiad mewnol.

Dear British Broadcasting Corporation,

Please tell me when the BBC plan to release the modified open source software they used to build the Raven video server systems used in the BBC, alongside howtos on building them, in line with the GNU Public Licence under which they were developed.

Given that ALL software used on these devices is open source & that public money was used to create it, I also hereby & within this FOI request, request a copy of all software modified & of the build guide for the systems.

Yours faithfully,

Nik Fox

FOI Enquiries, Y Gorfforaeth Ddarlledu Brydeinig

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your request for information under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, as detailed in your email below. Your request was received on 15th February 2014. We will deal with your request as promptly as possible, and at the latest within 20 working days. If you have any queries about your request, please contact us at the address below.

The reference number for your request is RFI20140282.

Kind regards,

The Information Policy & Compliance Team
BBC Freedom of Information
BC2 B6 Broadcast Centre
201 Wood Lane
London W12 7TS
www.bbc.co.uk/foi
Email: [BBC request email]
Tel: 020 8008 2882
Fax: 020 8008 2398

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Dear FOI Enquiries,

This email is to remind you that the response to this request is becoming due in the next couple of days & that you should respond immediately.

Yours sincerely,

Nik Fox

Dear British Broadcasting Corporation,

Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.

I am writing to request an internal review of British Broadcasting Corporation's handling of my FOI request 'Raven Video Servers'.

You have now busted the deadline for response & broken the law. This will be reported to the ICO.

A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/r...

I look forward to a response within the next 48 hours explaining why you failed to meet the deadline & what you propose to do to rectify it.

Yours faithfully,

Nik Fox

FOI Enquiries, Y Gorfforaeth Ddarlledu Brydeinig

Dear Mr Fox,

We have received your request for an internal review relating to RFI20140282. Your request for an internal review was received on 18th March 2014. We shall deal with the review as promptly as possible and, at the latest, within 30 working days. If you have any queries please contact us at the address below.

The reference number for your internal review is IR2014014.

BBC Information Policy and Compliance
BC2B6, Broadcast Centre
201 Wood Lane,
London, W12 7TP

Website: www.bbc.co.uk/foi/
Email: [BBC request email]
Tel: 020 8008 2883
Fax: 020 8008 2398

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Gadawodd Mark Salter anodiad ()

Interesting how the request for an internal review appears to almost eliminate the need for the actual response.

I guess time will tell, the response must be due any day now!

Gadawodd Nik Fox anodiad ()

The response is well overdue now - I have today emailed the Trust & Tony Hall. Oddly they acknowledged the internal review of this (but not my other request) within hours....after ignoring it for ages.

FOI Enquiries, Y Gorfforaeth Ddarlledu Brydeinig

Dear Sir/Madam,

We apologise for the delay in responding to your requests RFI20140269 and RFI20140282 and for any inconvenience caused. Your requests are a priority as they are already late, and we can assure you that all efforts are being made to provide you with the responses as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely,

The Information Policy and Compliance Team

BBC Information Policy and Compliance
Room BC2 B6 Broadcast Centre
Wood Lane
London W12 7TP

Website: www.bbc.co.uk/foi
Email: mailto:[BBC request email]
Tel: 020 8008 2882
Fax: 020 8008 2398

From: Nik Fox <[email address]>
Date: 25 March 2014 08:29:37 GMT
To: "[email address]" <[email address]>, "[email address]" <[email address]>
Subject: FOI Requests - Overdue & Ignored!
Tony, Diane,

On 13th February I made an FOI request, reference RFI20140269 & on 15th February I made an FOI request RFI20140282.

So far nobody has replied beyond giving me a reference number & you're WELL outside of the legally allowed timeframe for response. I have asked for an internal review & again, silence,

Could you please shout loudly at the appropriate departments & facilitate a response before Friday this week? Otherwise I shall have to get the ICO involved.

Regards,

Nik Fox
Chief Executive
Sentia Global
E: [email address]
DDI: [phone number removed]
M: [phone number removed]
Sentia Global - Simple Intelligence - www.sentiaglobal.com
Fibre Optic~IT Consultancy~EHealth~Digital Media~simple intelligence~we are Sentia

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Gadawodd Nik Fox anodiad ()

Thanks for posting my phone numbers, BBC!

Gadawodd Mark Salter anodiad ()

I have alerted the administrators of WDTK.com - they will be on to this very shortly I am sure. I hope they can just obscure your personal data posted by the BBC.

Gadawodd Nik Fox anodiad ()

Thanks Mark - I hadn't gotten around to finding that feature yet - you are a gent!

Gadawodd Ganesh Sittampalam anodiad ()

I have removed the phone numbers from public display. I would advise making a complaint to the BBC directly if you want to take it further - outgoing WDTK requests do clearly state in the footer that the response will be published.

Ganesh - WhatDoTheyKnow volunteer

Gadawodd Nik Fox anodiad ()

Thanks Ganesh - it was obviously a lapse in concentration by the BBC so I'll have a bit of a moan at them once the request is done. They've mishandled these 2 massively.

FOI Enquiries, Y Gorfforaeth Ddarlledu Brydeinig

2 Atodiad

Dear Nik

 

Please find attached the response to your request for information,
reference RFI20140282. We apologise for the delay in responding to your
request.

 

We also apologise for the error of using your work email address instead
of your WhatDoTheyKnow email address to update you on the status of your
request when you wrote to us last week, as above.  We note that
WhatDoTheyKnow have removed your contact details.

 

Yours sincerely,

The Information Policy and Compliance Team

 

BBC Information Policy and Compliance

Room BC2 B6 Broadcast Centre

Wood Lane

London W12 7TP

 

Website: [1]www.bbc.co.uk/foi

Email: [2]mailto:[BBC request email]

Tel: 020 8008 2882

Fax: 020 8008 2398

[3]Description: Description: \\BBCFS2025\UserData$\myrien01\Documents\My
Pictures\BBC.png

 

 

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

References

Visible links
1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/foi
2. mailto:[BBC request email]
4. http://www.bbc.co.uk/

FOI Enquiries, Y Gorfforaeth Ddarlledu Brydeinig

1 Atodiad

Dear Nik Fox

Please find attached a copy of our internal review which relates to both of your requests to the BBC (RFI20140269 - Digital Media Initiative and RFI20140282 - Raven Video Servers).

Yours sincerely

BBC Information Policy and Compliance
Room BC2 B6, Broadcast Centre
201 Wood Lane
London W12 7TP, UK

Website: www.bbc.co.uk/foi
Email: [BBC request email]
Tel: 020 8008 2882
Fax: 020 8008 2398

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Gadawodd Mark Salter anodiad ()

The following extract from the late response includes the following
text, which are items that should have been considered *before* OSS was
used - that may have terms requiring the release of the solution (with
source for 'free'), not things that should be offered as a way of
positioning for a later refusal to release (if needed)

"
Value for the licence fee payer–
as the BBC has invested a number of
years work into the development of the Raven video server
software, we should not release it to the market without some commercial
return
for the benefit of the licence fee payer;
i.e. if we were to licence the software externally, we would need to do so at a commercial rate;

Market distortion–
the BBC is required to consider the market impact of
releasing software code for free, and the potential for negative
market impact where commercial alternatives exist, which we believe there to be in this case.
"

Where a commercial product (and company) is already competing with OSS, then for the BBC not to release (potentially against the licenses already subscribed to) then it could also be considered to also have a market impact in *favour* of the commercial company something that is also unacceptable.

OSS licenses are something you consider *before* use , and certainly not when it becomes 'convenient'. If any of them have a provision for the product to be released/available, then the product in it's current form should be made available to the requester. It would likely be considered counter to the license if the BBC then spent more effort replacing any part whose license is 'unacceptable' for a non-release.

If the BBC has used OSS software whose license supports release then it should release it and take necessary actions against those engaged whom incorrectly used OSS software without checking they should/could. It is them who will have caused the waste of tax-payer money, not the release of the software that would do so.

I suggest that you ask the BBC to archive the 'product' asis, so that it remains available asis.

I would also ask for a list of OSS items used, with there versions, URLs and licenses in place, so that you see the detail of them *as used*.

Gadawodd Nik Fox anodiad ()

Good idea Mark & thanks for joining in the debate.

Raven would be really useful for the new smaller community TV operations, colleges, schools etc who can't afford massive video servers & proprietary hardware.

I agree with every single point you make here.

I'm not giving in on this one, panic not ;)

Gadawodd Mark Salter anodiad ()

Thinking about this a bit more...

... adjusting the source code is likely not an option; at the point you requested the information, the FOIA demands that the information requested is not destroyed or amended.

Any changes would be contrary to section 1.(4) of the Act :-

"
...
the information in question held at the time when the request is received, except that account may be taken of any amendment or deletion made between that time and the time when the information is to be communicated under subsection (1)(b), being an amendment or deletion that would have been made regardless of the receipt of the request.
"

So I would also seek the changelog or 'position' of the source/solution at the time your request was received by the BBC. They probably should have saved a copy to ensure the information was preserved as the FOIA dictates.

Changes to remove any 'inconvenient' OSS licenses would changing the information - and not something that would have necessarily happened if your request had *not* been made (evidence would be needed to show that such action was already planned).

Only my opinion of course :-)

FOI Enquiries, Y Gorfforaeth Ddarlledu Brydeinig

2 Atodiad

Dear Sir/Madam,

Further to our letter of 3rd April, please see attached our follow-up letter.

Yours sincerely,

The Information Policy and Compliance Team

BBC Information Policy and Compliance
Room BC2 B6 Broadcast Centre
Wood Lane
London W12 7TP

Website: www.bbc.co.uk/foi
Email: mailto:[BBC request email]
Tel: 020 8008 2882
Fax: 020 8008 2398

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Gadawodd Mark Salter anodiad ()

Having considered each license in effect at the time of your request, the BBC will be well placed to provide that inventory of software and licenses, so that others may double check their assessment of them and compliance needs.

Dear FOI Enquiries,

Please provide an inventory of software and licenses which are used in the Raven builds, so that compliance may be checked independently.

Yours sincerely,

Nik Fox

FOI Enquiries, Y Gorfforaeth Ddarlledu Brydeinig

Dear Mr Fox

 

Thank you for your request for information under the Freedom of
Information Act 2000, as detailed in your email below. Your request was
received on 22^nd May 2014.  We will deal with your request as promptly as
possible, and at the latest within 20 working days. If you have any
queries about your request, please contact us at the address below.

 

The reference number for your request is RFI20140798.

 

Kind regards

 

The Information Policy & Compliance Team

 

BBC Freedom of Information

BC2 B6, Broadcast Centre

201 Wood Lane

London W12 7TP

 

[1]www.bbc.co.uk/foi

Email: [2][BBC request email]

 

Tel: 020 8008 2882

 

 

References

Visible links
1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/foi
2. mailto:[BBC request email]

Dear FOI Enquiries,

I have still not received a response

Yours sincerely,

Nik Fox

FOI Enquiries, Y Gorfforaeth Ddarlledu Brydeinig

3 Atodiad

Dear Mr Fox

 

Please find attached the response to your request for information,
reference RFI20140798.

 

Kind regards

 

[1]Description: cid:image001.png@01CF8C9D.DB5245F0

References

Visible links

Gadawodd Mark Salter anodiad ()

This is a rather odd response, in that the software list whilst short is completely devoid of software versions?

Since the license of a product can be tied to a particular version and can change over time, in my opinion the software version is a key piece of information and I expected this to be provided - for the position of the Raven software at the date of your request.

For the various histories of the items listed, a site like :-

http://olex.openlogic.com/search?query=j...

provides a set of free information, just provide the name of the item to assess. The changes to the licensing terms will be obvious where they have occurred.