Norman v Cheshire December 2011 (Fire Service Pensionable pay)

The request was successful.

Dear Welsh Government,

I have sent the following FOI request to each Fire & Rescue Service in Wales and have been informed by one of them that the reason they have not implemented the following court ruling is because they are still awaiting guidance off of yourselves. Therefore I would like to know.

1. Why hasn't this guidance been issued?

&

2. How far off is it from bring issued? (bearing in mind the result of this court case was known in 2011)

Yours faithfully

Richard Tait

Dear Sir/madam

Please can you tell me if you have complied with the above court
ruling relating to additional payments paid to Firefighters e.g.
Day Crewing, Training Allowances etc now being classed as
pensionable pay?

1. If yes, when did you comply with this ruling?

2. If no, why haven't you complied with this ruling?

Yours faithfully,

Richard tait

Welsh Government

Dear Mr Tait
 
We have received your inquiry below about pensionable pay in the Fire
Service, and possible Welsh Government guidance.  I am not treating this
as a freedom of information request, as you asked about the Welsh
Government’s position on an issue, rather than for information that we
hold. 
 
There are three pension schemes for firefighters in Wales, originally
dating from 1992, 2007 and 2015 but amended since then.  The law
establishing each of them already defines pensionable pay for firefighters
in some detail, including the position as regards training and other
allowances.  It also gives employing Fire and Rescue Authorities (FRAs)
themselves the power to decide whether particular allowances are
pensionable – see, for instance, regulation 26(1)(d) of the Firefighters’
Pension Scheme (Wales) Regulations 2015.  In doing so FRAs need to comply
both with the definition of pensionable pay in the scheme rules, and with
case law such as Norman v Cheshire Fire and Rescue Service (while that
obviously related to an English FRA, the law is similar in both
countries). 
 
If a Welsh FRA were unclear about the general position then we would, of
course, be happy to assist.  But these are, as I say, decisions which
employers routinely make.  Despite what you seem to have been told, the
Welsh Government has no plans to issue any formal guidance on this
matter.     
 
I hope this is helpful.
 
Yours sincerely,
 
 
Steve Pomeroy
Pennaeth Cangen Gwasanaethau Tân / Head of Fire Services Branch
Y Grŵp Addysg a Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus / Education and Public Services
Group
Llywodraeth Cymru / Welsh Government
Rhydycar, Merthyr Tudful CF48 1UZ / Rhydycar, Merthyr Tydfil CF48 1UZ
Gwefan: [1]www.llyw.cymru/tan
Website: [2]www.gov.wales/fire
 
 
 
 
 
 

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