Nid ydym yn gwybod a yw'r ymateb mwyaf diweddar i'r cais hwn yn cynnwys gwybodaeth neuai peidio - os chi ywMs. S mewngofnodwch a gadael i bawb wybod.

No signatures and sharing personal data illegally

We're waiting for Ms. S to read a recent response and update the status.

Dear General Register Office,

S. 2 of the BADA 1953 requires all qualified informants to sign (handwritten signature) the birth certificate, since 2009 no qualified informant regardless of the type of registration i.e. solo, joint or married has signed a birth certificate.

In a previous response: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/r...

It was stated by Mr Richard Woodward 'No informants for a registration (and that includes parents) sign a certificate. An informant signs the register page only.' (the template birth certificate), it was also stated 'The informant(s) sign the original register. The signature spaces in a certificate contain a printed version of the signature as the original informant may not be the person purchasing the certificate.

The original register referred to is believed to be what Will and Kate signed
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/reports/...

I refer to the document being a template as it is not a Crown copyright. This template is evidently processed by another computer system other than the RON system, as the RON system only produces the CROWN copyright birth certificates, that are legally to be signed by the qualified informants and be computer captured to form/complete the digital record.

1. Can you explain why no qualified informants have signed the birth certificate or have signed a 'template' birth certificate? This is evident as no birth certificate that been issued since 2009 contains a 'printed version of the signature' but contains a electronically typed name of the qualified informant.

If S.2 of the BADA 1953 had been complied with legally as stated by Mr Richard Woodward the 'printed version of the signature' would be on all birth certificates issued, as they are not; this is actually a breach of S. 34 (5) of the BADA 1953 as the original information (substance) is different from the original entry.

Before the RON system all birth certificates contained the qualified informants signatures, the registrars and the superintendent registrar, when these were later computer captured all the original information (substance) was present as on the day of registration. Now that the RON system can do the registrars job/duties as required by the legislation as stated in the 2002 White Paper - vital change.

2. What legal rights do the GRO have to insert/ electronically type any qualified informant name onto a Crown copyright birth certificate in box 14 when the signature is obsolete (S.2)?

I would also like to know why the GRO thinks it's legal to issue a birth certificate to any member of the public upon request and payment, when according to the Public Records Act 1958 Sch. 1 para. 2 (2) (b) clearly state that birth certificates are not public records; this is sharing personal data that the GRO are not authorised to do!

3. What legal rights do the GRO have to issue upon request and payment any birth certificate to the any member of the public, particularly when the birth certificate itself is personal data?

Yours faithfully,

Ms. S

FOI, General Register Office

If your enquiry falls within the remit of a Freedom of Information request
Her Majesty’s Passport Office will send you an acknowledgement within the
next 2 working days.

 

If your enquiry does not fall within the Freedom of Information remit this
will not be forwarded or responded to. Therefore please contact the
appropriate department listed below:

 

• For a passport enquiry or complaint, please complete an online enquiry
form

 

• If your enquiry or complaint relates to a certificate which you have
ordered from the General Registrar’s Office, please complete the
certificate service order enquiries form.

 

• If your request is for information relating to your data held by Her
Majesty’s Passport Office or an individual it falls under the terms of the
Data Protection Act 1998 and may qualify as a Subject Access Request,
please email [email address]

 

• If your enquiry relates to nationality you should forward your enquiry
to the UK Visas and Immigration enquiry team who are better placed to
respond, please email    [email address] 

 

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Parsons Charlie, General Register Office

1 Atodiad

Dear Ms S
 
please find attached our response to your information request.

 
Yours sincerely
 
Her Majesty’s Passport Office
 
 
 
 
 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Parsons Charlie, General Register Office

Parsons Charlie would like to recall the message, "FOI 54933".

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

FOI, General Register Office

1 Atodiad

Dear Ms S
 
Please find attached our response to your information request.

 
Yours sincerely
 
Her Majesty’s Passport Office
 
 
 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Dear FOI,
Ms S Lawson

Yours sincerely,

Ms. S

FOI, General Register Office

If your enquiry falls within the remit of a Freedom of Information request
Her Majesty’s Passport Office will send you an acknowledgement within the
next 2 working days.

 

If your enquiry does not fall within the Freedom of Information remit this
will not be forwarded or responded to. Therefore please contact the
appropriate department listed below:

 

• For a passport enquiry or complaint, please complete an online enquiry
form

 

• If your enquiry or complaint relates to a certificate which you have
ordered from the General Registrar’s Office, please complete the
certificate service order enquiries form.

 

• If your request is for information relating to your data held by Her
Majesty’s Passport Office or an individual it falls under the terms of the
Data Protection Act 1998 and may qualify as a Subject Access Request,
please email [email address]

 

• If your enquiry relates to nationality you should forward your enquiry
to the UK Visas and Immigration enquiry team who are better placed to
respond, please email    [email address] 

 

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

GRO Policy,

Dear Ms S. Lawson

Thank you for your email in which you have asked about the birth registration process and the role of the RON system. Your request has been handled as official correspondence rather than as a request for information under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, although this does not mean that your enquiry has been actioned any differently or that the information provided contains any less content or detail.

The Registration online (RON) system is used by the local registration service to facilitate the registration of life events. The Registration of Births and Deaths (Electronic Communications and Electronic Storage) Order 2006 amended the Birth and Death Registration Act 1953 (BDRA) to allow for the electronic communication and storage of copies of Birth and Death registers and for local registrars (using a system approved by the Registrar General) to transmit those copies to the Registrar General electronically and allow the Registrar General to use the copies in the same way as paper copies.

For the process of birth registration, s.2 of the BDRA requires that when a birth is registered the informant(s) provide the registrar with the required information. This is captured onto the RON system and when complete a register page is printed out for the informant(s) to check and sign. The informant(s) sign the register page (birth registration entry) when they are content that all the information in the record is correct. The register page is then signed by the registrar to complete the birth registration entry. The signed birth registration entry, which is the primary legal record, is retained by the registrar and subsequently deposited with their Superintendent Registrar when their register is full.

The information from the signed registration; i.e. details of the signatures, is then entered onto the RON system and a certificate can then be printed. The signature information is transcribed exactly into the RON system. For example if an informant's full name was Peter John Smith but the entry was signed PJ Smith then PJ Smith and not the full name would be entered on to the system and printed in the certificate. All certificates, printed from the RON system, will only have a printed version of signatures. This complies with s.34(5) of the BDRA which states that the information printed on a certificate can differ in form (the way it is shown) but not substance (the information provided).

The registers and certified copies held by the General Register Office are specifically excluded from being treated as Public Records in the Public Records Act 1958. However, copy records of the entries are available under S.30 of the BDRA, which provides for any person to search the indexes held by the General Register Office and to apply for and receive a certified copy of any entry.

I hope the information I have provided has clarified your understanding of the Birth registration process.

Kind Regards

Melanie Shipstone

Policy Advisor
Civil Registration

Her Majesty's Passport Office, General Register Office
Smedley Hydro, Trafalgar Road, Southport, PR8 2HH

T: 0151 471 4378 Text Relay Prefix 18001
E: [email address]
www.gov.uk

Any personal information you provide to us will be handled in accordance with data protection legislation.  Further information on how we process your personal information can be found at https://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio...

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Dear GRO Policy,

Thank you for response, in para. 3 of you response you stated '.... s.2 of the BDRA requires that when a birth is registered the informant(s) provide the registrar with the required information. This is captured onto the RON system and when complete a register page is printed out for the informant(s) to check and sign.'

Is the completed register printed as a Crown Copyright, including logo's watermarks and various other security features?

You then stated in para. 4, 'The information from the signed registration; i.e. details of the signatures, is then entered onto the RON system and a certificate can then be printed. The signature information is transcribed exactly into the RON system'

When an informant 'signs' the birth entry, the completed register, this is a unique signature of the informant that sometimes consist's of scribble/line through their unique signature, its usually encrypted not be
duplicated. The example you give of Paul John Smith is regarded as printed name and not a signature, if Paul John Smith sign's his name as

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...

did.

Then one would expect their signature to appear as they had originally signed it, as you have stated 'The signature information is transcribed exactly into the RON system'. You then contradict yourself when you stated ' All certificates, printed from the RON system, will only have a printed version of signatures.'

Whilst 'The signed birth registration entry, which is the primary legal record, is retained by the registrar' the personal data and the signature's of the informant and registrar's form the substance of the birth certificate.

S. 34 (5) clearly states that there should be no difference of substance. So when an informant signs the completed certificate, their signature should be apparent on the birth certificate that they have obtained particularly as forms part of the substance.

This has not been the case since the RON system was introduced in 2009, there are no signatures by the informant on any copy of birth certificate, where the signature is legally required in space 14, informant's name are typed/ printed names.

How can the RON system legally change an informant's 'signature' into a printed name, if it is capturing the information, as you said it captures the signature exactly? and if the RON system was capturing the information exactly, why isn't this information (the signature's) visible on every birth certificate issued as it forms the substance (S. 34 (5))?

In para.5 you have stated 'The registers and certified copies held by the General Register Office are specifically excluded from being treated as Public Records in the Public Records Act 1958'. S. 30 does not allow for members of the public to search these records but allows employees of the GRO to search the record's that has been requested upon receipt of payment.

Yet if a member of the public has/knows someone's information they can and have been able to request a copy of the certificate, and whilst they are excluded from being treated a Public Record, the GRO have made them public record upon request and fee. The GRO has been sharing the public's personal data upon request and for fee, knowing that this not a public record.

Kind regards

Miss S

Yours sincerely,

Ms. S

GRO Policy,

Dear Ms S. Lawson

In answer to your questions the Registration of Births and Deaths (Electronic Communications and Electronic storage) Order 2006 provides for signatures on a birth registration to be captured electronically and a certified copy of the entry (a certificate) to be issued in its electronic format. The document you have referenced seems to be a copy of the birth registration page and not a certificate.

I cannot advise you further on the security features used within civil registration in England and Wales.

Kind regards

Melanie

Melanie Shipstone

Policy Advisor
Civil Registration

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Dear GRO Policy,

Can you explain the difference between a birth registration page and a certificate? As the layout of the documents are identical withstanding that the birth certificate is a Crown copyright.

As all birth certificates since 2009 have been in electronic format, It doesn't make sense that if you sign (birth registration page) birth certificate and it is being electronically captured how the hand written signature would then be type written.

To electronically capture a document means to capture it as it is. How can the RON system change a hand written signature to type written?

Yours sincerely,

Ms. S

Dear Ms Lawson

The birth registration page is the original registration and the certificate is a certified copy of the information recorded in the registration.

Kind regards

Melanie Shipstone

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Nid ydym yn gwybod a yw'r ymateb mwyaf diweddar i'r cais hwn yn cynnwys gwybodaeth neuai peidio - os chi ywMs. S mewngofnodwch a gadael i bawb wybod.