Further and better particulars and evidence relating to covid 19 regulations

Dr George Cumming Thorburn made this Rhyddid Gwybodaeth request to Department of Health and Social Care

Automatic anti-spam measures are in place for this older request. Please let us know if a further response is expected or if you are having trouble responding.

Department of Health and Social Care Nid oedd gan y wybodaeth y gofynnwyd amdani.

Dr George Cumming Thorburn

Dear Department of Health and Social Care,

Please provide the scientific evidence, data, bibliography and minutes relating to the decisions to implement the following rules/laws relating to the restrictions imposed in pubs and restaurants:-
1. The control of drinking by insisting that drinks may only be supplied with a substantial meal
2. The control of drinking by either closing pubs or imposing short time opening for them.
Please provide evidence that covid 19 is less infectious if people have a meal with their drinks.

Yours faithfully,

Dr George Cumming Thorburn

Department of Health and Social Care

This is an acknowledgement - please do not reply to this email.

Thank you for contacting the Department of Health and Social Care. 

We are currently experiencing high volumes of enquiries and we are
focusing our resources on the Coronavirus (COVID-19) response.

The answers to many questions, including the latest information on
COVID-19, can be found on [1]GOV.UK, the [2]Department of Health and
Social Care website or by visiting the [3]NHS website. We may not respond
to you if the answer to your enquiry can be found on either of these
websites. Where a reply is appropriate, we aim to send a response within
18 working days, or 20 working days if your query is a Freedom of
Information request or complaint.

If you are experiencing symptoms related to COVID-19, please
visit [4]111.nhs.uk or telephone your GP surgery immediately for further
advice. Do not go to a GP surgery, pharmacy or hospital directly.

If you are a business interested in helping the government increase
COVID-19 testing capacity, please visit this [5]Government website. Please
note that the service to offer other COVID-19 support from your business
has closed.

If you are clinician looking to support the NHS, please visit the NHS
Professionals websitehttps://www.nhsprofessionals.nhs.uk/ for further
information. 

If you are a clinician who has retired within the last 6 years and would
like more information on how to apply for the temporary register, please
visit the NHS England
websitehttp://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/re....

If you want to volunteer during the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic,
please visit this
website[6]https://www.gov.uk/volunteering/coronavi... for
more information. 

The Department of Health and Social Care does not process complaints about
the NHS or social services. If you wish to make a complaint about a
healthcare professional, an NHS organisation or a social care provider,
please visit the [7]Complaints Procedure page on GOV.UK.

You can find out more about the Department’s commitments from our Personal
Information
Charterhttps://www.gov.uk/government/organisati....

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addressee(s). Its unauthorised use, disclosure, storage or copying is not
permitted. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all
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message are not necessarily those of the Department of Health and Social
Care. Please note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely
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communications.

References

Visible links
1. https://www.gov.uk/
2. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisati...
3. https://www.nhs.uk/
4. https://111.nhs.uk/covid-19/
5. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/help-the-gov...
6. https://www.gov.uk/volunteering/coronavi...
7. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisati...

FreedomofInformation, Department of Health and Social Care

Dear Dr Thorburn,

Thank you for your email.

The Freedom of Information Act only applies to recorded information such as paper or electronic archive material. As your correspondence asked for general information and an opinion rather than requesting specific recorded information or documentation, it did not fall under the provisions of the Act. It will be answered as general correspondence in due course.

Yours sincerely,

FOI Team
Department of Health and Social Care

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Dr George Cumming Thorburn

Dear FreedomofInformation,
I disagree with your recent correspondence where you say that my request is for General information and an opinion.
That is NOT true:-- EXTRACTS from my request
1.Please provide the scientific evidence, data, bibliography and minutes relating to the decisions to implement the following rules/laws
2. Evidence is requested again

You are therefore required to provide the minutes,data, bibliography and scientific evidence which must be archived.

Yours sincerely,

Dr George Cumming Thorburn

Department of Health and Social Care

Our ref: DE-1278272 

   

Dear Dr Cumming Thorburn,  
   
Thank you for your correspondence of 30 November about COVID-19. I have
been asked to reply.  
 
The Freedom of Information Act only applies to recorded information such
as paper or electronic archive material. As your correspondence asked for
general information, rather than requesting recorded information or
documentation, it did not fall under the provisions of the Act. 

 

The Act does not cover unrecorded information that officials may remember,
opinions that officials might have, official advice (apart from past
advice the Department of Health has given, where a record of this has been
kept) or requests for an official policy statement (again, apart from past
policy statements, where a record has been kept). There is no obligation
under the FOI Act for public authorities to create new information. 

 

I should explain that policy relating to pubs and hospitality businesses
is the responsibility of the Department for Business,
Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS). You may wish to raise your concerns
with BEIS at [1][email address]. 

 

I am sorry I cannot be more directly helpful. 

 
Yours sincerely,  
   
Joseph Rawlinson  
Ministerial Correspondence and Public Enquiries 
Department of Health and Social Care 

  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  
 
Please do not reply to this email. To contact the Department of Health and
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This e-mail and any attachments is intended only for the attention of the
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permitted. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all
copies and inform the sender by return e-mail. Any views expressed in this
message are not necessarily those of the Department of Health and Social
Care. Please note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely
monitored for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic
communications.

References

Visible links
1. mailto:[email address]
2. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisati...
3. http://r1.surveysandforms.com/4c3zqo08-a...

Dr George Cumming Thorburn

Dear Department of Health and Social Care,

Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.

I am writing to request an internal review of Department of Health and Social Care's handling of my FOI request 'Further and better particulars and evidence relating to covid 19 regulations'.
Today , 18th December I received another letter prevaricating an saying that there are no records of any scientific documents to support the orders and laws curtailing various freedoms because of a perceived pandemic.
EXTRACT from your letter today..The Freedom of Information Act only applies to recorded information such
as paper or electronic archive material. As your correspondence asked for
general information, rather than requesting recorded information or
documentation, it did not fall under the provisions of the Act.
The Act does not cover unrecorded information that officials may remember,
opinions that officials might have, official advice (apart from past
advice the Department of Health has given, where a record of this has been
kept) or requests for an official policy statement (again, apart from past
policy statements, where a record has been kept). There is no obligation
under the FOI Act for public authorities to create new information.

MY INTERPRETATION OF THIS IS THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY RECORDS AS REQUESTED HERE"1.Please provide the scientific evidence, data, bibliography and minutes relating to the decisions to implement the following rules/laws"I HAVE NOT ASKED FOR OPINIONS OR UNRECORDED MATERIAL. SCIENTIFIC PEER REVIEWED BIBLIOGRAPHY,DATA AND EVIDENCE AND MINUTES ARE NOT UNRECORDED AND SHOULD NOT BE MISSING FROM THE RECORD.
I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH MADE DRACONIAN DECISIONS AFFECTING MILLIONS WITHOUT REFERRING TO SCIENTIFIC, EVIDENCE OR BIBLIOGRAPHY AND NO MINUTES WERE MADE CONFIRMING THE DECISIONS MADE AND BY WHOM.....IF YOU PERSIST IN LYING, I SHALL REPORT YOU FOR MALFEASANCE IN A PUBLIC OFFICE. HANCOCK, WHITTY , VAN TAM AND VALLANCE ANNOUNCED THESE MEASURES AND THEY ARE IN THE DEPARTMEENT OF HEALTH. YOUR DEPARTMENT ALSO ANNOUNCED THE MEASURES IN THE SECOND PART OF MY ENQUIRY...... The control of drinking by either closing pubs or imposing short time opening for them. Please provide evidence that covid 19 is less infectious if people have a meal with their drinks.HANCOCK ET ALL ALSO ANNOUNCED THESE MEASURES AND I WANT TO SEE THE SCIENTIFIC DATA THAT THEY USED TO JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE DEPARTMENT FOR BUSINESS, ENERGY AND INDUSTRIAL STRATEGY WERE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MEASURES WHICH HANCOCK AND JOHNSTON HAVE ALWAYS SAID ARE BASED ON THE SCIENCE.
I should explain that policy relating to pubs and hospitality businesses
is the responsibility of the Department for Business,
Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS). You may wish to raise your concerns
with BEIS at [1][email address].

IF NECESSARY MR RAWLINSON,I SHALL CONSIDER TAKING LEGAL ACTION AGAINST YOU AND MR HANCOCK WITH A VIEW TO A COURT ORDERING YOU TO DO AS ASKED.
(Joseph Rawlinson ,Ministerial Correspondence and Public Enquiries ,Department of Health and Social Care)
I believe thay you are being deliberately obstructive and seem to forget that you are the public servant, not me.

Dr George Cumming Thorburn

A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/f...

Yours faithfully,

Dr George Cumming Thorburn

FreedomofInformation, Department of Health and Social Care

Dear Dr Thorburn,

Your correspondence has not been handled as a freedom of information request and is therefore not subject to an internal review. Should you wish to complain about the response you received, you may do so at the following link: https://contactus.dhsc.gov.uk.

Should you wish to submit an FOI request, you may find it useful to refer to the Information Commissioner's guidance on communicating effectively and politely with public authorities at: https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/off....

Any further correspondence on this topic to this email address that is not a specific FOI request will be logged, but may not receive a reply.

Yours sincerely,

FOI Team
Department of Health and Social Care

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Department of Health and Social Care

This is an acknowledgement - please do not reply to this email.

Thank you for contacting the Department of Health and Social Care. 

We are currently experiencing very high volumes of enquiries and we are
focusing our resources on the Coronavirus (COVID-19) response.

If your enquiry is in relation to the pandemic, the Government has
launched a COVID-19 ‘hub’, which can be found
at [1]www.gov.uk/coronavirus and is regularly updated. The hub offers all
the Government’s latest advice and guidance, a link to the NHS website, a
portal for those offering assistance, a tracking service displaying the
latest information on cases in the UK, and an email alert service so
people can stay up to date with all the latest measures. 

The answers to many other questions can be found on [2]GOV.UK,
the [3]Department of Health and Social Care website or by visiting
the [4]NHS website. We may not respond to you if the answer to your
enquiry can be found on either of these websites. Where a reply is
appropriate, we aim to send a response within 18 working days, or 20
working days if your query is a Freedom of Information request or
complaint.

If you have symptoms of COVID-19 you must get tested as soon as possible.
The swab test takes less than a minute and is pain-free. Results from test
sites are generally received within 24 hours of the test being
administered. Further information, including what symptoms to look out
for, can be found at [5]this website. 

If your business is interested in helping the Government increase
COVID-19 testing capacity, please visit [6]this Government website. Please
note the service that was set up for businesses to offer other
COVID-19 support has closed.

If you are a clinician looking to support the NHS with the COVID-19
response, please visit [7]this website, where you will find a variety of
required roles for both registered and unregistered individuals.

If you are a clinician who has retired within the last six years and are
considering a return to the NHS, please visit [8]this website.

If you are a member of the public wishing to volunteer during the
pandemic, please visit [9]this website for more information. 

The Department of Health and Social Care does not process complaints about
the NHS or social services. If you wish to make a complaint about a
healthcare professional, an NHS organisation or a social care provider,
please visit the [10]complaints procedure page on the Government website.

You can find out more about the Department’s commitments from
our [11]Personal Information Charter.

 

 

 

 

This e-mail and any attachments is intended only for the attention of the
addressee(s). Its unauthorised use, disclosure, storage or copying is not
permitted. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all
copies and inform the sender by return e-mail. Any views expressed in this
message are not necessarily those of the Department of Health and Social
Care. Please note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely
monitored for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic
communications.

References

Visible links
1. https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus
2. https://www.gov.uk/
3. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisati...
4. https://www.nhs.uk/
5. https://www.gov.uk/getting-tested-for-co...
6. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/help-the-gov...
7. https://www.nhsprofessionals.nhs.uk/en/r...
8. https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/r...
9. https://www.gov.uk/volunteering/coronavi...
10. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisati...
11. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisati...

Department of Health and Social Care

1 Atodiad

Dear Dr Thorburn,

Please find attached the Department of Health and Social Care's response
to your recent FOI request (our ref:FOI-1278272 ).

Yours sincerely, 

Michael Pierson
Freedom of Information Team
Department of Health and Social Care

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir