Council tax bill payments with NON CASH

tommy made this Rhyddid Gwybodaeth request to City of Edinburgh Council

This request has been closed to new correspondence from the public body. Contact us if you think it ought be re-opened.

Roedd y cais yn rhannol lwyddiannus.

Dear City of Edinburgh Council,

Under Part 5, Billing, S 25, of The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) (Scotland) Regulations 1992, it clearly states a method of payment labelled NON CASH PAYMENTS.

This section clearly states that the council do accept NON CASH payment methods.

I can provide a definition of cash under national and international laws.

My question is, what would the council like payment in when they do state that they accept non cash?

Yours faithfully,

tommy

City of Edinburgh Council

Mr Tommy Unknown

Our ref: 17946

Dear Mr Unknown

Acknowledgement of Request

Subject: Council tax bill payments with NON CASH

Thank you for your request for information of 27/02/2018 which was received on 27/02/2018. In your request you asked for the following;

Under Part 5, Billing, S 25, of The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) (Scotland) Regulations 1992, it clearly states a method of payment labelled NON CASH PAYMENTS.

This section clearly states that the council do accept NON CASH payment methods.

I can provide a definition of cash under national and international laws.

My question is, what would the council like payment in when they do state that they accept non cash?

I can confirm that your request will be processed under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002, Environmental Information Regulations (Scotland) 2004, or the INSPIRE (Scotland) Regulations 2009.

You will receive the information requested within 20 working days unless the Council does not hold the information, or there is a reason for it to be withheld. We will write to you in any event. This means we have until 27/03/2018 to respond to your request.

In some circumstances a fee may be payable and if that is the case we will let you know.

If you have any requirements regarding the format any information should be supplied in, e.g. the language to be used, audio, large print and so on, then please let me know.

If you have any queries or concerns, do not hesitate to get in touch. Please quote the reference number above in any future communications.

To promote transparency and accountability, please note it is the Council’s policy to publish all request details and responses made under the freedom of information legislation. This information will be made available through the Council’s website and will not include your personal details. The disclosure log is available at the following link: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/homepage/175....

Further information about your rights and accessing information is available on our website at: www.edinburgh.gov.uk

Yours sincerely,

Information Governance Unit
Level 2:1, Waverley Court, Edinburgh EH8 8BG Tel 0131 200 2340
[Edinburgh City Council request email] www.edinburgh.gov.uk

City of Edinburgh Council

Mr Tommy Unknown

[FOI #467618 email]

Our ref: 17946

Dear Mr Unknown

Request for Clarification

Subject: Council tax bill payments with NON CASH

Thank you for your request for information of 27/02/2018 in which you asked the following:

Under Part 5, Billing, S 25, of The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) (Scotland) Regulations 1992, it clearly states a method of payment labelled NON CASH PAYMENTS.

This section clearly states that the council do accept NON CASH payment methods.

I can provide a definition of cash under national and international laws.

My question is, what would the council like payment in when they do state that they accept non cash?

Unfortunately, we cannot identify the information you have requested from the details you have provided. To help us meet your request, could you please provide the following:

It is a requirement under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 when making a request that the applicant must provide their Surname either in the their address line or within the body of the request. I am unable to process your request further until you can provide this detail.

An extract from the Scottish Information Commissioner's website reads as follows:

The FOI Act says that a request must include the name of the applicant and an address for correspondence. In terms of your address, either your full postal address or your email address will be fine.

You will need to provide your full real name. If you don't use your real name the authority won't have to provide the information, and you won't be able to appeal to the Commissioner. At the very least, your request should include your initial and your surname.

If you send your request by email, remember to put your name in the text of the email. Even if your name appears in your email address (e.g. [email address]) you must add your name to the text of your request, so that it is clear who the email is from.

On receipt of these further details, we will respond to your request within 20 working days. Please note that the statutory 20 working day deadline for responding to your request does not start until we receive the requested clarification from you.

If we do not hear from you within 40 working days, we will assume that you are no longer seeking the information you have requested and we will take no further action.

If you wish to discuss further, please get in touch. Please quote the reference number above in any future communications.

Further information about your rights and accessing information is available on our website at: www.edinburgh.gov.uk

Yours sincerely,

Clayton Pratt
Information Rights Officer

Information Governance Unit
Level 2:1, Waverley Court, Edinburgh EH8 8BG Tel 0131 200 2340
[Edinburgh City Council request email] www.edinburgh.gov.uk

Dear City of Edinburgh Council,

tommy wright

Yours faithfully,

tommy

City of Edinburgh Council

Mr Tommy Wright

[FOI #467618 email]

Our ref: 17946

Dear Mr Wright

Request for Clarification - Receipt

Subject: Council tax bill payments with NON CASH

Thank you for providing clarification on the above request for information of 27/02/2018. We will respond to your request within 20 working days. Please note that the statutory 20 working day deadline for responding to your request starts upon receipt of clarification. This means we have until 03/04/2018 to respond to your request.

To promote transparency and accountability, please note it is the Council’s policy to publish all request details and responses made under freedom of information legislation. This information will be made available through the Council’s website and will not include your personal details.

Further information about your rights and accessing information is available on our website at: www.edinburgh.gov.uk

Yours sincerely

Clayton Pratt
Information Rights Officer

Information Governance Unit
Level 2:1, Waverley Court, Edinburgh EH8 8BG Tel 0131 200 2340
[Edinburgh City Council request email] www.edinburgh.gov.uk

City of Edinburgh Council

Mr Tommy Wright

[FOI #467618 email]

Our ref: 17946

Dear Mr Wright

Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 - Release of Information

Subject: Council tax bill payments with NON CASH

Thank you for your request for information of 27/02/2018 where you asked the following:

Under Part 5, Billing, S 25, of The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) (Scotland) Regulations 1992, it clearly states a method of payment labelled NON CASH PAYMENTS.

This section clearly states that the council do accept NON CASH payment methods.

I can provide a definition of cash under national and international laws.

My question is, what would the council like payment in when they do state that they accept non cash?

Your request has been processed and considered under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 and the information is provided below.

The City of Edinburgh Council will accept the following non cash payments:

• Direct debit
• Debit or credit card using CEC online payment facility, freephone telephone number or text reminder
service
• BACS transfer (including telephone or mobile banking)
• Standing order
• Cheque

To promote transparency and accountability, please note it is the Council’s policy to publish all request details and responses made under the freedom of information legislation. This information will be made available through the Council’s website and will not include your personal details. The disclosure log is available at the following link: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/homepage/175...

Your right to seek a review

If you are unhappy with the way we have dealt with your request, you can ask us to review our actions and decisions by writing to the:

Head of Strategy & Insight
The City of Edinburgh Council
Waverley Court Business Centre 2:1
4, East Market Street
Edinburgh
EH8 8BG or,
Email: [email address]

Please note that your request must be in a recordable format (email, letter, audio tape etc.), and that you have 40 working days upon receipt of this letter to ask for a review. You will receive a full response to your review request within 20 working days of its receipt. Please quote the reference number above in any future communications.

If you are not content with the outcome of the review, you can ask the Scottish Information Commissioner to review our decision. You must submit your complaint to the Commissioner within 6 months of receiving our review response. The Commissioner can be contacted at:

The Office of the Scottish Information Commissioner
Kinburn Castle
Doubledykes Road
St Andrews
Fife
KY16 9DS
Telephone: 01334 464610
Fax: 01334 464611
Website: www.itspublicknowledge.info/Appeal
Email: [email address]

Yours sincerely,

Clayton Pratt
Information Rights Officer

Information Governance Unit
Level 2:1, Waverley Court, Edinburgh EH8 8BG Tel 0131 200 2340
[Edinburgh City Council request email] www.edinburgh.gov.uk

Dear City of Edinburgh Council,

l don't think your definition of NON CASH PAYMENT methods are correct.

Customs defined my bank cards as cash and l had to declare them.

Under uk legislation, european and international custom laws, and commercial definitions regarding a cheque? A cheque (complete or incomplete) is defined as cash.

What method of payment would the council class promissory notes (both banknotes and other), and other other negotiable instruments (both incomplete and complete) as? Because cash means money, and what l have mentioned is defined as cash/money. l have legal references for the definitions.

Yours faithfully,

tommy

City of Edinburgh Council

Mr Tommy Wright

Our ref: 18465

Dear Mr Wright

Acknowledgement of Request

Subject: Council tax bill payments with NON CASH

Thank you for your request for information received on 09/04/2018. I can confirm that your request will be processed under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002, Environmental Information Regulations (Scotland) 2004, or the INSPIRE (Scotland) Regulations 2009.

You will receive the information requested within 20 working days unless the Council does not hold the information, or there is a reason for it to be withheld. We will write to you in any event. This means we have until 08/05/2018 to respond to your request.

In some circumstances a fee may be payable and if that is the case we will let you know.

If you have any requirements regarding the format any information should be supplied in, e.g. the language to be used, audio, large print and so on, then please let me know.

If you have any queries or concerns, do not hesitate to get in touch. Please quote the reference number above in any future communications.

To promote transparency and accountability, please note it is the Council’s policy to publish all request details and responses made under the freedom of information legislation. This information will be made available through the Council’s website and will not include your personal details. The disclosure log is available at the following link: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/homepage/175....

Further information about your rights and accessing information is available on our website at: www.edinburgh.gov.uk

Yours sincerely,

Information Governance Unit
Level 2:1, Waverley Court, Edinburgh EH8 8BG Tel 0131 200 2340
[Edinburgh City Council request email] www.edinburgh.gov.uk

City of Edinburgh Council

Mr Tommy Wright

[FOI #467618 email]

Our ref: 18465

Dear Mr Wright

Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 - Release of Information

Subject: Council Tax Payments with 'Non-Cash'

Thank you for your request for information of 09/04/2018 where you asked the following further to request 17946:

“l don't think your definition of NON CASH PAYMENT methods are correct.

Customs defined my bank cards as cash and l had to declare them.

Under uk legislation, european and international custom laws, and commercial definitions regarding a cheque? A cheque (complete or incomplete) is defined as cash.

What method of payment would the council class promissory notes (both banknotes and other), and other other negotiable instruments (both incomplete and complete) as? Because cash means money, and what l have mentioned is defined as cash/money. l have legal references for the definitions.”

Your request has been processed and considered under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 and the information is provided below.

In essence if payment is not made by bank notes and / or coins (the literal interpretation of cash) then it should be deemed a non-cash payment.

It is not appropriate for the Council to comment on customs legislation in particular as this has no relevance to Council Tax law.

The ways in which Council Tax can be paid are clearly documented on the bills, etc. If a customer chooses to pay by cash or by the non-cash options listed it will not make a difference to the Council as the main thing is they are making payment towards a statutory tax which the Council are legally required to collect.

To promote transparency and accountability, please note it is the Council’s policy to publish all request details and responses made under the freedom of information legislation. This information will be made available through the Council’s website and will not include your personal details. The disclosure log is available at the following link: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/homepage/175...

Your right to seek a review

If you are unhappy with the way we have dealt with your request, you can ask us to review our actions and decisions by writing to the:

Head of Strategy & Insight
The City of Edinburgh Council
Waverley Court Business Centre 2:1
4, East Market Street
Edinburgh
EH8 8BG or,
Email: [email address]

Please note that your request must be in a recordable format (email, letter, audio tape etc.), and that you have 40 working days upon receipt of this letter to ask for a review. You will receive a full response to your review request within 20 working days of its receipt. Please quote the reference number above in any future communications.

If you are not content with the outcome of the review, you can ask the Scottish Information Commissioner to review our decision. You must submit your complaint to the Commissioner within 6 months of receiving our review response. The Commissioner can be contacted at:

The Office of the Scottish Information Commissioner
Kinburn Castle
Doubledykes Road
St Andrews
Fife
KY16 9DS
Telephone: 01334 464610
Fax: 01334 464611
Website: www.itspublicknowledge.info/Appeal
Email: [email address]

Yours sincerely,

Iain Burden
Information Rights Officer

Information Governance Unit
Level 2:1, Waverley Court, Edinburgh EH8 8BG Tel 0131 200 2340
[Edinburgh City Council request email] www.edinburgh.gov.uk

Dear City of Edinburgh Council,

We have many variations of bank notes and l'm concerned regarding your interpretation of cash.

So it seems that you could be re defining cash in order that it suits council tax statute.

I've received statements from the council, but l've never ever received any bills from any council.

Payment can therefore be made with promissory notes?

Yours faithfully,
tommy

City of Edinburgh Council

Mr Tommy Wright

Our ref: 19097

Dear Mr Wright

Acknowledgement of Request

Subject: Council Tax

Thank you for your request for information received on 24/05/2018. I can confirm that your request will be processed under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002, Environmental Information Regulations (Scotland) 2004, or the INSPIRE (Scotland) Regulations 2009.

You will receive the information requested within 20 working days unless the Council does not hold the information, or there is a reason for it to be withheld. We will write to you in any event. This means we have until 22/06/2018 to respond to your request.

In some circumstances a fee may be payable and if that is the case we will let you know.

If you have any requirements regarding the format any information should be supplied in, e.g. the language to be used, audio, large print and so on, then please let me know.

If you have any queries or concerns, do not hesitate to get in touch. Please quote the reference number above in any future communications.

To promote transparency and accountability, please note it is the Council’s policy to publish all request details and responses made under the freedom of information legislation. This information will be made available through the Council’s website and will not include your personal details. The disclosure log is available at the following link: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/homepage/175....

Further information about your rights and accessing information is available on our website at: www.edinburgh.gov.uk

Yours sincerely,

Information Governance Unit
Level 2:1, Waverley Court, Edinburgh EH8 8BG Tel 0131 200 2340
[Edinburgh City Council request email] www.edinburgh.gov.uk

Information Rights Officer 1, City of Edinburgh Council

Mr Tommy Wright

 

[1][FOI #467618 email]

 

Our ref: 19097

 

 

Dear Mr Wright

 

Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 - Release of Information

 

Subject: Council Tax

 

Thank you for your request for information of 24/05/2018 where you asked
the following:

 

Payment of Council Tax can be made with promissory notes?

 

Your request has been processed and considered under the Freedom of
Information (Scotland) Act 2002 and the information is provided below.

 

A promissory note  is an instrument containing an unconditional written
promise by one party (the maker) to pay a definite sum of money to the
other party (the payee) (or to his order, or to bearer). A promissory note
can be payable on demand or at a specified future date (section 83(1),
Bills of Exchange Act 1882). A promissory note is also a negotiable
instrument.

 

A banknote is a negotiable promissory note, which a bank can issue. A
banknote is payable to the bearer on demand, and the amount payable is
apparent on the face of the note. Banknotes are considered legal tender;
along with coins, they make up the bearer forms of all modern money.

 

A promissory note between an individual and a Council would not be classed
as legal tender.  A simple promissory note from an individual to the
Council would be a promise to pay at a determined future point.  In
relation to Council Tax we are looking for an actual payment rather than
simply a promise to pay so a promissory note is not an accepted method of
payment.

 

To promote transparency and accountability, please note it is the
Council’s policy to publish all request details and responses made under
the freedom of information legislation. This information will be made
available through the Council’s website and will not include your personal
details. The disclosure log is available at the following link:
[2]http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/homepage/175...

 

Your right to seek a review

 

If you are unhappy with the way we have dealt with your request, you can
ask us to review our actions and decisions by writing to the:

 

Head of Strategy & Insight

The City of Edinburgh Council

Waverley Court Business Centre 2:1

4, East Market Street

Edinburgh

EH8 8BG or,

Email: [3][email address]

 

Please note that your request must be in a recordable format (email,
letter, audio tape etc.), and that you have 40 working days upon receipt
of this letter to ask for a review. You will receive a full response to
your review request within 20 working days of its receipt. Please quote
the reference number above in any future communications.

 

If you are not content with the outcome of the review, you can ask the
Scottish Information Commissioner to review our decision. You must submit
your complaint to the Commissioner within 6 months of receiving our review
response. The Commissioner can be contacted at:

 

The Office of the Scottish Information Commissioner

Kinburn Castle

Doubledykes Road

St Andrews

Fife

KY16 9DS

Telephone: 01334 464610

Fax: 01334 464611

Website: [4]www.itspublicknowledge.info/Appeal

Email: [5][email address]

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

Mark Hepworth

Information Rights Officer

 

 

Information Governance Unit

Level 2:1, Waverley Court, Edinburgh EH8 8BG Tel 0131 200 2340

[6][email address] [7]www.edinburgh.gov.uk

 

 

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

References

Visible links
1. mailto:[FOI #467618 email]
2. http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/homepage/175...
3. mailto:[email address]
4. http://www.itspublicknowledge.info/Appeal
5. mailto:[email address]
6. mailto:[email address]
7. http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/

Dear Information Rights Officer 1,

A couple of points:
A, You wrote "A promissory note between an individual and a Council would NOT be classed
as legal tender", any note and not even any banknotes are classed as legal tender in scotland. As we don't have any definition of legal tender in scotland, so what is the difference between and behind the substance in return for any note in scotland?

B, The council are a registered and trading corporation, with more than one location in edinburgh, and with that? the council have specific rules that the corporation must adhere to such as the memorandum and articles of association which provides the rules for corporations and includes a section on "payments", this section mentions many types of financial instruments that are classed as securities that the corporation accepts.

C, Promissory notes from an individual, corporation and or a bank are all financial instruments which are securities, and all have value and face value.

D, You have stated that you accept promissory notes from banks. What is the substance behind this banknote that is so different from any other promissory note, or any other financial instrument (security) for that matter that the corporation would get in return?

E, l am very glad that you mentioned mentioned the Bills of Exchange Act for a few reasons. "A promissory note
can be payable on demand", this part on the note can easily be adjusted to "payable on demand" and face value would be on the note. Making my note the same as a banknote for yourselves.

And F) Under the Geneva Convention Providing a Uniform Law For Bills of Exchange and Promissory
Notes (Geneva, 1930). The promissory notes issued by the banks, aren't actually promissory notes as 3 crucial elements are lacking. One being "A statement of the time of payment", which is an expiry date of the note. l have examined a £5 and £10 note and this crucial element isn't on the note.

So by that being said, how do the council get paid from the person who pays the alleged bill with banknotes when the promissory notes issued by banks aren't promissory notes, don't have payment dates (expiry dates on the note), what substance do the council receive in return from the banknotes being payable to the bearer on demand? and what is the difference between the substances between an individuals promissory note and a banks promissory note?

Because you have made it clear that you receive a substance in return from the banknote being payable on demand.

Yours sincerely,

tommy

Information Rights Officer 1, City of Edinburgh Council

Mr Tommy Wright

[FOI #467618 email]

Our ref: 19097

Dear Mr Wright

Thank you for your email further to our response to the above request for information of 24/05/2018. Unfortunately, we cannot identify the information you have requested from the details you have provided.

A request for information under the Freedom of Information legislation is a request for recorded information that the local authority holds. You can ask for any kind of "recorded" information from a Scottish public authority however old the information is. That includes information recorded on: paper, computer files, including emails, video and microfiche. You can only ask for information that is recorded. For example, you cannot ask for someone's opinion that has not been put on record.

Information on how to ask for information can be found on the Scottish Information Commissioner's website at the following link: http://www.itspublicknowledge.info/YourR...

Please can you advise what specific information you feel that the Council holds in respect of your request?

Your sincerely

Mark Hepworth

Information Rights Officer

Information Governance Unit

Level 2:1, Waverley Court, Edinburgh EH8 8BG Tel 0131 200 2340

[email address] www.edinburgh.gov.uk

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Dear Information Rights Officer,

l want to know why you don't accept my promissory note when my financial instrument isn't any different from a banks promissory note.

What it is the substance that is gain from a banks promissory note if and when l use it to pay my council bills?

Yours sincerely,

tommy

Gadawodd Gary of the Testo family anodiad ()

Seems a clear enough question to me. What is Edinburgh council requesting payment "in"?.

Direct debit is a " method of transfer" which which to move sums round. Sums of money.

It appears the question is - how is Edinburgh council defining "money"? If it is felt that money is Bank of England/Scitland bank notes then a direct debit transfers numbers representing such bank notes to the same value as the direct debit.

Likewise, a privately issued promissory note would be promising the payment of bank notes to the same sum as the value of the promissory note.

A foia response from he treasury clearly states " the notes we use as money have no inherent velue", meaning the legal tender bank notes HAVE NO SUBSTANCE, so to complain that a privately issued prom note has no substance is a frivolous point to make in the context of the monetary system being used nationwide. No men and women in his country have ever received anything of substance in compensation for their time and labour, and as such how could any party/council expect any of those said men or women to give money if substance when they have never received any.

Information Rights Officer 1, City of Edinburgh Council

Mr Tommy Wright

[FOI #467618 email]

Our ref: 19097

Dear Mr Wright

Thank you for your email.

A request for information under the Freedom of Information legislation is a request for recorded information that the local authority holds. You can ask for any kind of "recorded" information from a Scottish public authority however old the information is. That includes information recorded on: paper, computer files, including emails, video and microfiche. You can only ask for information that is recorded. For example, you cannot ask for someone's opinion that has not been put on record.

Information on how to ask for information can be found on the Scottish Information Commissioner's website at the following link: http://www.itspublicknowledge.info/YourR...

As I asked in my previous email, could you please advise what specific information you feel that the Council holds in respect of your request?

Yours Sincerely

Mark Hepworth

Information Rights Officer

Information Governance Unit

Level 2:1, Waverley Court, Edinburgh EH8 8BG Tel 0131 200 2340

[email address] www.edinburgh.gov.uk

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Dear Information Rights Officer 1,

Again.

Q. What is the substance gained from what you called a banks promissory note in order pay council tax that would be so different from my promissory note or any other security that is classed as a financial instrument.

This is the recorded information l am asking for that must be on your records. As you have made a distinction between both financial instruments? you obvious know what is gained from one and the other.

Yours sincerely,

tommy

Gadawodd tommy anodiad ()

The question is very clear yet they continue to play mental gymnastics. The officer of the corporation clearly knows of the Bill of Exchange Act as this is what creditors send out to debtors in order to receive payment. Creditors must issue a bill of exchange aka a bill, valid under the bill of exchange act otherwise the bill isn't valid nor can it be paid. Corporations are also governed under the Articles of Association which has a section on payments being acceptable to the corporation which includes promissory notes and other financial instruments which are securities.

What the corporate officer stated regarding the banks promissory note is wrong as the banks promissory notes are not valid promissory notes as certain elements are missing from the note.

"The Articles of Association is a document that contains the purpose of the company as well as the duties and responsibilities of its members defined and recorded clearly. It is an important document which needs to be filed with the Registrar of Companies".

Information Rights Officer 1, City of Edinburgh Council

Mr Tommy Wright

[FOI #467618 email]

Our ref: 19097

Dear Mr Wright

Thank you for your email.

Further to your question I refer you to our original response to your request for information about promissory notes below:

A promissory note is an instrument containing an unconditional written promise by one party (the maker) to pay a definite sum of money to the other party (the payee) (or to his order, or to bearer). A promissory note can be payable on demand or at a specified future date (section 83(1), Bills of Exchange Act 1882). A promissory note is also a negotiable instrument.

A banknote is a negotiable promissory note, which a bank can issue. A banknote is payable to the bearer on demand, and the amount payable is apparent on the face of the note. Banknotes are considered legal tender; along with coins, they make up the bearer forms of all modern money.

A promissory note between an individual and a Council would not be classed as legal tender. A simple promissory note from an individual to the Council would be a promise to pay at a determined future point. In relation to Council Tax we are looking for an actual payment rather than simply a promise to pay so a promissory note is not an accepted method of payment.

A request for information under the Freedom of Information legislation is a request for recorded information that the local authority holds. You can ask for any kind of "recorded" information from a Scottish public authority however old the information is. That includes information recorded on: paper, computer files, including emails, video and microfiche. You can only ask for information that is recorded. For example, you cannot ask for someone's opinion that has not been put on record.

Information on how to ask for information can be found on the Scottish Information Commissioner's website at the following link: http://www.itspublicknowledge.info/YourR...

Yours Sincerely

Mark Hepworth

Information Rights Officer

Information Governance Unit

Level 2:1, Waverley Court, Edinburgh EH8 8BG Tel 0131 200 2340

[email address] www.edinburgh.gov.uk

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Gadawodd Darryl J Lee (Mr.) anodiad ()

I'd like to add something.

The description of Promissory Notes as "Non-Cash" is perhaps unintentionally misleading everyone.

Promissory Notes are "Cash". Everyone with half an interest in Promissory Notes will know of Lord Denning's famous words confirming this but take a look at Customs Declaration Form "C9011" - (Every Member State of the EU uses the same form. So do other States in a Customs Union) - See as examples: The Republic of Ireland and The Isle of Man. But it's not just the EU that considers Promissory Notes as Cash. See the laws from the Channel Islands; e.g. Cash Controls (Bailiwick of Guernsey) 2007. Guernsey is neither in The UK or the EU. But far more Countries consider Promissory Notes to be cash. Search: "Bearer Negotiable Instruments". Or, EU Directive -1889/2005 - Or “bearer negotiable instruments including monetary instruments in bearer form such as travellers cheques, negotiable instruments (including cheques, promissory notes and money orders) that are either in bearer form, endorsed without restriction, made out to a fictitious payee, or otherwise in such form that title thereto passes upon delivery, and incomplete instruments (including cheques, promissory notes and money orders) signed, but with the payee’s name omitted" -
Google: FAFT (Financial Action Task Force)
http://www.fatf-gafi.org/media/fatf/docu... .
But really one need not look beyond a major English Law - The Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 which defines cash as "notes and coins" (in any currency). The key word here is ANY "note" is cash - including notes that are not legal tender (see the any currency bit).

There are several cases that show that unless there is an agreement to the contrary, a party can refuse to accept payments in non-legal tender. (Legal Tender defined in law - which means effectively that only Bank of England notes still in circulation are legal tender). This means (in my opinion) that IF one offers in writing a payment in "notes and coins" or "cash" and the person demanding payment agrees (in writing) to accept "cash" or "Notes and coins", OR demands payment in "CASH" it follows that (so long as the promissory notes are valid) the person taking payment is not entitled to refuse the notes (the cash).

I wish all researchers into promissory notes the best of luck.

Dear Information Rights Officer 1,

l'm very aware of commercial instruments, different types and their definitions.

The promissory note issued by the bank states that "l promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of ten pounds". Ten pounds of what? The banks have stated that their is nothing backing their promissory notes.

Yet you continue to emphasise that you gain payment from a banks promissory note for Council Tax

What is the substance that you would gain from a banks promissory note compared to my financial instrument? as you have made it very crystal clear that you receive a payment (substance) that is very different from my commercial paper when paying Council Tax

Yours sincerely,

tommy

Dear Information Rights Officer 1,

You stated that you accept a "Banks Promissory Note' in order to pay Council Tax with.

Bank Charter Act 1844, 28 Interpretation clause. The term “Bank of England notes” shall extend and apply to the promissory notes of the Bank of England payable to bearer on demand; and the term “BANKER” shall extend and apply to all corporations, societies, partnerships, and PERSONS, and EVERY INDIVIDUAL PERSON, carrying on the business of banking, whether by the issue of BANK NOTES or otherwise, except only the Bank of England; and the word “PERSON” used in this Act shall include corporations; and the singular number in this Act shall include the plural number, and the plural number the singular, except where there is any thing in the context repugnant to such construction; and the masculine gender in this Act shall include the feminine, except where there is any thing in the context repugnant to such construction.

Seems that my Person and l are defined as BANKERS and my Promissory Notes? you have stated that you accept banks promissory notes. Didn't you?

Yours sincerely,

tommy

Gadawodd tommy anodiad ()

Darryl J Lee (Mr.)
If a valid bill isn't issued for council tax. Then a promissory note can created in order to pay back the debt. Debtors create promissory notes as it's a source of finance. While creditors create bills of exchange in order to be paid. The council never send anybody valid bills in relation to council tax. They send statements. Thus, the debtor has no option but to create a promissory note. The council who are a corporation state that they are the creditor and require the debt to be paid. Thus, as debtors? we can create and pay with our own promissory notes be it present or at a future date. The note is defined as a security along with any other banking instruments or commercial papers. If the council refuses our promissory notes? Then within their Memorandum & Articles of Association, they should have a section on payments being received. This section will include promissory notes and other commercial papers that are accepted for payment. Then l can create another security in order to set off the debt. Which gets me to this very important point. The bank is issuing promissory notes, only debtors can issue promissory notes. So who is the creditor to the bank? The bank must have a creditor.

Dear City of Edinburgh Council,

Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.

I am writing to request an internal review of City of Edinburgh Council's handling of my FOI request 'Council tax bill payments with NON CASH'.

l am waiting for a reply.

A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/c...

Yours faithfully,

tommy

Review, City of Edinburgh Council

3 Atodiad

Dear Mr Wright,

 

Please find attached the response to your request for review which has
been dealt with under the terms of the Freedom of Information (Scotland)
Act 2002.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Chris Peggie

Review Officer

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Dear Review,

l have read what you have sent me and within the 1st link the council do obviously state cash is accepted. And l will provide a definition of cash from the below.

Bankruptcy and Diligence etc. (Scotland) Act 2007
175. Meaning of “money” and related expressions
(1)In this Part—
“CASH” means coins and banknotes in any currency;
“banking instrument” means—
(a) cheques and other instruments to which section 4 of the Cheques Act 1957 (c. 36) applies;
(b) any document (other than one mentioned in section 4(2)(c) of that Act) issued by a public officer which is intended to enable a person to obtain payment from a government department of the sum mentioned in it;
(c) PROMISSORY NOTES (OTHER THAN BANKNOTES);
(d) OTHER NEGOTIABLE INSTRUMENTS; and
(e) money orders and postal orders; and

MONEY means CASH and banking instruments but does not include any cash or instrument which has an intrinsic value greater than any value it may have as a medium of exchange; and any reference to the value of money is, unless the context otherwise requires, a reference to—

(a) the amount of cash;
(b) where that cash is in a currency other than sterling, the amount in sterling which that cash would realise on its conversion under section 177(3) of this Act;
(c) the amount in cash which would be obtained were the value of a banking instrument realised; and
(d) in the case where money comprises both cash and instruments, the aggregate of the amounts referred to in, as the case may be, paragraphs (a) to (c) above".

The promissory note that l would create and supply any corporation including the council in order to set off any alleged liability is legally and lawfully fully valid. And is deemed to be money and money means CASH.

l would also like to reference a specific regulations that governs corporations such as the council who are a trading company listed on companycheck and dnb.com.

Companies Act 2006. S,52. Bills of exchange and promissory notes.
"A bill of exchange or promissory note is deemed to have been made, accepted or endorsed on behalf of a company if made, accepted or endorsed in the name of, or by or on behalf or on account of, the company by a person acting under its authority".

The above references that companies such as the council do accept promissory notes.

l could also make references and quote from other various other corporations using their memorandum and articles of association which should show what types of payment have to be accepted and this section will include promissory notes, non and negotiable instruments and basically anything that is deemed a security which is what these sources of finance are all classed as.

l was supplied with information stating that the council would only accept banknotes payable on demand. However, l wasn't supplied with the information as to what that substance would be when and if the council demand the payment from a banks promissory note. The banks have all stated that their is no substance payable on demand from any bank.

l provided a reference (and l can reference more) stating that we the people are classed as bankers because we are creditors with the ability to create a source of wealth and finance.

We can therefore draw a logical conclusion that my promissory note, be it payable on demand or at a future date, is no different than any other banks promissory note. And by law? the council would have to accept the instrument of finance. The notes l would create wouldn't actually be any different than any other banks financial instrument.

It would make perfect logical sense for the council to accept the instruments of value that l would create.

Yours sincerely,

tommy

Review, City of Edinburgh Council

Dear Mr Wright,

 

As advised in the Council’s review response if you remain dissatisfied
then you have a  right of appeal to the Scottish Information Commissioner.
You must submit your complaint to the Commissioner within 6 months of
receiving the review response.

 

If you wish to raise a complaint with the Council regarding the service
you have received for making payments then please complete the form on the
link below:

 

[1]http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20004/c...
 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Chris Peggie

Review Officer

 

dangos adrannau a ddyfynnir

Gadawodd pat kalis anodiad ()

Might be better as a customer to cancel the service with the concil and then the customer would no longer be a customer and wouldn't be billed., nor entitled to any commercial demands from the corporation.

Gadawodd Alan Smith anodiad ()

They are just repeating themselves and they have been clearly caught out. They state they get payment but they don't reveal what the payment is nor what it is. If the note (piece of paper) is the payment, then what is the difference between any piece of paper with numbers on it compared to any bank note? Both are classed as payment and money, as the bank of england and the news papers have admitted that there is nothing back the pieces of paper. The council have to accept any form of security as a set off to any alleged bills or statements, and if they don't then they are in violation of the corporations acts, rules and procedures.