WARMFRONT COMPLAINTS

This really is like watching paint dry!

Isn't it about time that the Information Commissioner was given additional funding to deal with all the unanswered FOI requests from public bodies?

As you will see there must be deep concerns about the quality of Warmfront installations. If you have a complaint, write to the Customer Management Team Lisa.Hodges@eaga.com about the Scheme, This complaint should be dealt with in the first instance by eaga plc, the company who are contracted to deliver the
Scheme on the Department's behalf and, as such, are responsible for the processing of Warm Front applications.
They can also be contacted using the details below:
Phone: 0800 316 2805
Address: eaga plc, Customer Management Team, FREEPOST NEA12054,
Newcastle upon Tyne

I was granted a grant of £3500 for new boiler and cavity wall insulation in July 2009. The new boiler was installed in November 2009 ( which can be bought for less than £600) I have not heard anythign about cavity wall insulation. Who has received this £3500 pounds and for doing what exactly ?????

Sounds a bit like mine Bill. Except my boiler's installation was wrong and flooded my kitchen and ground floor, whilst I was away. This caused thousands of pounds of damage, which my insurance company cross claimed from the Warmfront Installers. The only way to get some answers is to keep blitzing Warmfront/Eaga complaints......and get your MP onto it!
Its a long haul but they have a public remit and I have been informed through DEFRA although the Warmfront scheme is ending it is being replaced by Green Belt(?)or something like that.....but Warmfront complaints are still being accepted!

How strange.EAGA told me i had to make a formal complaint by first registering it with Warm Front. Warm Front refused to register my complaint as it was not about them. I asked for this to be put in writing but strangely to date have no letter. The DECC sent an e-mail to them on my behalf.Still cold and still no replies

I had a boiler put in by a certain company through warm front, I was grateful to have the help of warm front, but they do get there money from the goverment, I have had nothing but trouble with the boiler and they have sent the company around to fix the problem which they haven't done so, they even told me at one time after they actually got more funding from the council that they had to dig a big hole outside the cupboard where the boiler is installed,and my dustbins would have to be moved out of the way the day they come,all the stuff from the cupboard under the sink to be removed and my airing cupboard emptied, I did all this when the engineer arrived he said he didnt know what I was talking about and he was just there to put a part in the boiler he rung up, no-one knew nothing and I was told that they never told me this was what was arrange, which was rubbish I would never have done all that and waited for them to arrive at nine in the morning if they hadn't, They have still not fixed the problem. I am now roughly in my third year of having most of the time no heating or hot water. All my phone are ignored even though they have said numerous times that they would arrange for someone to come out to me, the last words they said to me was and not in a very nice tone because of my continual complaints about no heating and hot water which I think I have a right to moan about after all this time, considering they have been paid not only by the goverment but a few hundred quid from the council as well,I am over sixty thats how I got the grant but what was the point, I have had nothing but trouble and now they say its too late but that is not my fault as it is them that have not put the fault right from the beginning, now I dont know what my next move can be apart from going to the citizens advice with all the details, I am fed up with trying but also depressed because I have to put up with being freezing and no hot water most of the winter as it comes on and off in intervals somtimes I can get it going by going outside and reseting the boiler and it will work for a while but now the water is not working, even when I can get the heating going its is not nice to have to go outside in the snow and ice fiddling around setting the boiler every couple of days, the does anyone else have any Ideas on what I should do, I am sitting here now the heating has gone yet again as I write this although the switches are all on upstairs indicating that it is on,I have been on the internet trying to find options for me to relate to about the problem and feel it is almost impossible, ringing is no good as it is ignored, I have had no hot water again for two weeks,as time goes on the problem will worsen until it is perminantly not working you do not expect to have a continual problem with a brand new boiler from the moment it is installed.

Hi Eileen,
Just to say I am sorry for all the hassle you are having.
Three things:
1)Use www.writetothem.com to write to your MP
2)Use www.theyworkforyou.com to find out about your MP...ie how hard they may or may not work!
3) Write to the Ministers in charge at DECC...a list can be found on this link: http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/ab...

There is no way you should have to put up with this shoddy service....I refused to have the contractors on site again as they flooded my home with poor installation.
Did you know Warmfront has been disbanded....and something else has replaced it...ask DECC
Also ask if EAGA are still involved if so, the Customer Management contact I have is
Lisa.Hodges@eaga.com
Hope this helps
Dee

Thanks for the information here. I have been trying to resolve my broken boiler that Warmfront installed. It broke before it had even been used and has been useless ever since. In August 2010 after almost a year of last fault reported an engineer declared the boiler non defunct and told me he would be putting a request in for a replacemnet. Wooo.. result...but no..wait..no response until late Dec 2010 and then I am asked to contribute over £800 towards the cost of a new boiler and my complaints fall on deaf ears... I will try again....my patience is wearing thin, my home is either freezing or boiling hot and my gas bill is enormous. So much for Energy Efficient..Good Luck everyone...Carrol 07845688287

I also have another up to date contact for Eaga
Kelly Evans kelly.evans@eaga.com.

I e-mailed in my formal complaint and told her to put it forward in its entirety for the statistics, rather than a diluted summary.

It is a disgrace how many people have had such terrible problems.It's like pass the parcel and we are the parcel.Just keep on questioning.

Had my system installed in July last year and broke down in January. Warm Front were useless and passed me between Baxi and themselves.It turns out system installed has a number of faults as picked up by the Warm Front appointed engineer who came out. Can't log the complaint as emails to eaga keep bouncing back it is an absolute nightmare. Costing me a fortune in extra heating as having to use oil radiators and blow air heaters and boiling pots of water as have 3 young children.

Trouble is Fiona the Warmfront scheme is finishing and maybe your MP (sorry!) can help?
Write to the Ministers in charge at DECC...a list can be found on this link: http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/ab...

There is no way you should have to put up with this shoddy service.
Did you know Warmfront has been disbanded....and something else has replaced it...ask DECC what:...http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/ab...

Also ask if EAGA are still involved if so, the Customer Management contact I have is
Lisa.Hodges@eaga.com

Good luck
Dee

I have been waiting for a year now for a contractor to be allocated, three so far have been to my house for a survey all have declined the work, quoted from £6000+, £2500+ and the last didn't bother!
Looks like an email to Lisa.Hodges@eaga.com to complain..then my local MP

Just to add to the list

Dear Sirs,
This is further to my previous email and calls already made and my dissatisfaction with your system that in my case seems to be falling down.

3 weeks ago I had a call from Home Visits to make an appointment for the Wednesday, I asked for a call back if poss to give me an indication of the time as I had appointments I would need to cancel to accommodate the surveyor. I didn't have a call back by 4.30 so called again for any sort of update. I was told that the surveyors laptop had to be sent back because it wasn't working and no one would be there on Wednesday as he wouldn't know where to go (as his appointments were on the laptop) but he should attend on Thursday. I cancelled the appointments I had for my work and still had no call from a surveyor. I DID HAVE A CALL FROM SOMEONE CALLED STEVEN WHO WAS APPARENTLY A SERVICE ENGINEER - I haven't even had a survey done yet so have no central heating boiler to service so wouldn't need his help.

I then called again and spoke to another person, went through all this and was told they would follow "procedure" and send an email and that I would hear from someone within 72 hours and that Mark was indeed my appointed surveyor (see below) and he would be in touch. I had sent a text to Mark ( I had his number from previous contact from start of January) and have a text from Mark saying he is no longer my surveyor and I should contact the office. I believe that person was Jennifer. I spoke to George Tyrell(?) last Monday 21st February who assured me he would deal with the matter and get a call back organised for me within 72 hours and he would call the following day to let me know what was happening. I am still waiting for those calls.

Today I have spoken to Tracy Bowen. Once again I listened to "the procedure" of appointing a surveyor and escalating this matter (I think this will be the 5th time I have heard it all) and that an email would be sent to the escalations team and I would have a call within 72 hours. I was told that no escalation had been requested before. George Tyrrell (?) was doing that the previous week and someone previous to that. I am still waiting for a phone calls. I appreciate a procedure has to be followed and it is not the consultants "fault" but this is beyond a joke. I also understand that the service is stretched however this really is not good enough.

Further to my previous email and numerous phone calls, I still have had no further contact from a surveyor.

Judith Braithwaite

----- Original Message -----
From: Judith Braithwaite
To: enquiry@eaga.com
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 11:20 PM
Subject:

Dear Sirs,
I made application on 30th November and had confirmation that I had been approved.

I had no contact up until 10th January when a surveyor called Mark called me on a Monday night whilst I was at work to say he would visit the day after, I told him I was away in Yorkshire. Less than 24 hours notice was not appropriate. He told me he would call again within 5 weeks. He once again called on a Monday night 24th January again whilst I was at work to say he would call the day after, I told him again that it was not convenient and we set up a visit for the Saturday. I was hospitalised on the Friday and tried to call him on the Monday. He sent me a text message to say he was no longer the surveyor and I should contact the office. I contacted the office who told me no other surveyor had been assigned to my property and that someone would call me back as I wished to escalate my complaint. I am sure it is all in the notes. I had expecting a call back from yourselves before Friday and have yet not had this call.

I appreciate that you are all busy however I feel it appropriate that someone call me on Monday afternoon as I can't take calls before 12 on Monday so I can make a further complaint and secondly so that a surveyor appointment to attend my property is made within the week.
Thank you
Judith Braithwaite

Sent complaint to Aiden Burley MP and Warmfront... had reply from both, and both say they are looking into my complaint..
Had a call from an engineer to see what system was in place now, I told him "the same as last year" and he said he will forwards my details to the relevant department as he didn't deal with solid fuel...

The show goes on!!!

Hi again, here's my update:
I have had no reply from my MP, DECC replied promptly and I explained that Eaga also replied promptly and they arranged for Ideal to send an Engineer round and it was so prompt that I was offered a next day appointment. So, firstly, thankyou to D. Speers for the correct contact/complaint details on here.
The Engineer fixed a faulty divertor valve. In short it was clogged due to radiator flush not being a very good one after the boiler was installed and left a load of gunk in the system which built up in the divertor. This clogged the way to heating the water and it then diverted to central heating as it had no where to go which meant the system was being over ridden and the only way to turn it on and off was the boiler on/off switch. So this was also the reason that my gas bill was so high...the boiler continually on to heat the water which couldn't get through as it was clogged and this continued until turned off manually by me. So, it is now working fine.
I am still going to pursue the complaint because I am left with a boiler that still has an inadequate flush so gunk will build up again, and this was apparently done. I also expect further warranty to be added and compensation for my high gas bill. At least this is a positive note and encouraging that following the complaint procedure as shown here does work. Thanks. Carrol

It would appear that what I thought was a genuine scheme to help people with their energy costs is yet another nightmare for the end user. I applied in March 2010 and am still waiting for a contractor to be allocated.I have however been told that we will have to make a contribution towards the cost of our new boiler and two radiators.
Why do Warmfront assume that we are all idiots!!
There is no doubt in my mind that this whole scheme is a government backed scam, and a licence to print money for all concerned.
Having read the feedback on the quality of workmanship etc, there is noway I will hand over any monies or allow these cowboys into my home.
THANK YOU
Bob R Nottinghamshire

Sorry to hear the saga continues.....as a Warmfront recipient I can only share my experiences too. Seems most MPs will tell us they "are dealing with it" but exactly what are they doing? Are they writing to the DECC to get a response from the Minister?

Just a thought, would it be worth sending a link to this to our local press? Surely there is enough information here to be of interest! Then we could let our MPs know we have done this...maybe that will wake them up!

Two things:
Is there still a Warmfront scheme?
What does their complaints policy state?

had survey done 21 10 10. Called several times to get update, always told installer being allocated. Called 09 03 2011 told no installers available, have no option but to wait till April and re-apply...directly in contradiction to climate change secretary statement and directgov information. I only need new boiler...not lucrative enough to do??? Suspect very unfair selection process, cherry picking of most financially rewarding jobs, no chronological order to undertake jobs.....very suspect way of allocating and dealing with taxpayers money.

Can I suggest looking, as contra to Climate Change Secretary statement and info on Direct.Gov, at making a formal complaint.....sadly its like pushing water uphill but seems to be the only language they understand.
Keith is your application via Warmfront or new scheme?
I suppose we could use this site to start a campaign?

I have been waiting since February 2010 for a new boiler and radiators and after a long list of mistakes and lack of communication from Warm Front/Eaga they asked me to pay top up of £2005 which I cannot afford. Why can't I just have a new boiler and replace the 4 radiators that are problems so I do not have to pay this vast amount which I cannot afford.

They tell me this is not possible. The answers are not forthcoming.

Lisa Hodges says she has now left Eaga PLC and from experience writing to Eaga PLC is a total waste of time and energy. They do not even have the courtesy to acknowledge your letter let alone answer any complaints.

Irene I am sorry you are having this hassle....I'm not surprised Lisa Hodges has left Eaga with the number of complaints being received.
I have no idea why Eaga make life so difficult and the only people who can really change any of it is Parliament. Write to your MP via www.writetothem.com or the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change Chris Huhne http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/ab... chris.huhne@decc.gsi.gov.uk
It is like pushing water uphill but if they are blitzed then they must respond......threaten to go to the Information Commissioner if Freedom Of Information requests are not answered within 20 working day time limit.Hope this helps
Dee

I have left a message for Secretary of State Chris Huhne, and I will keep you posted if I receive a response:
"http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wa...
Dear Mr Huhne,
As you will see from this link there are some very unhappy people out here, many vulnerable and still waiting for Warmfront/Eaga to advise them of their entitlement re Fuel Poverty.
I believe I have read somewhere that Warmfront are no longer operating.
Please advise:
• Has Warmfront been replaced?
• If yes, what has replaced this?
• If there are outstanding Warmfront complaints, where should these now be taken?
• Contact details for a complaints case worker please.
• Alternatively please give me something I can copy to web-site, as I am fed up trying to do Eagas job for them.

Kind Regards

Hi
Thanks for comments, I have involved my local labour MP to no avail they do not seem to be able to do anything. WArmFront/Eaga are getting away with murder I have read horrendous stories. Here it says new application can be made after April 2011.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndB...

But what use is that if they do not help anyway. The only way this scheme will work correctly is if they give a list of installers from which people can choose, as I got all the very same lies others have when an Engineer Surveyor failed to call 'they had a computer crash' and another employee said 'they are all sick' (probably sick of the rubbish being dished out) like us, to say the Engineers Surveyors didn't know where to go because of a computer crash, WHO inputs the information for goodness sake and from what an invisible disc. When the Engineer Surveyor the very same one arrived a week later his words were I told Warm Front/Eaga/Installer I could not come last week no mention of computer crash or the illness all their Engineers Surveyors had the week before from two different people.

I have also been reading that people have been given boilers that are not man enough for the job, hence lukewarm water and heating going off and on constantly. So perhaps I have had a narrow escape. I have also written to David Cameron Office but I am not holding my breath.

Thanks Irene,
Sounds like a narrow escape indeed.I have also been questioning library closures, youth service cuts and cuts to mental health funding.

Here's a little indication of Government thinking from my MP: "The debilitating years of the State being seen to provide everything have finished along with the unsustainable view that the cost of this can always be provided out of taxation. To use your own analogy of parents and children, the Bank of Mum and Dad has closed and we must now use one which operates on different, and more localist terms which are more fitting for communities and councils which have at last been allowed to come of age."

Joined Up Thinking says: "MAYBE THE BANK OF NATIONAL TAX-PAYERS SHOULD ALSO CLOSE.....WHAT WILL BE OUR MPs CONSTITUENCY BRIEF NOW?

I'm wondering if Money Saving Expert Martin might have any clue as to who else we could all contact to find out what the heck is going on.Perhaps we can ALL email him.

I'm sure the plan is to keep us spinning.Seems the website is inviting new applications for April 2011 yet I have heard the Warmfront scheme has been replaced!
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndB...
So I feel we must keep the responsibility where it belongs....at Parliament!
Its a Government scheme backed by Government (our!) money and accountability must be via our MPs!
Suggested questions:
1) Is there still a Warmfront scheme?
2) If no, what has replaced it?
3) What is happening about Warmfront complaints still outstanding?
4) Who is the person to contact?

Maybe we should blitz the Department of Energy and Climate Change Select Committee and let them have our info. http://www.parliament.uk/business/commit...

DECC Select Committee membership:
Select Committees have cross party membership in place to "hold Departments to account" Maybe its time to lobbying the lot of them! I have checked and the Parliamentary protocol that prevents replies from non-constituency MPs does not apply to Select Committees. Contact details can be found on www.theyworkforyou.com or www.writetothem.com.
Why not alert them all to the situation.

Mr Tim Yeo was elected by the House to be the Chair of the Energy and Climate Change Committee on Wednesday 9 June 2010.

The following membership has been in place since Wednesday 3 November 2010:
Member Party
Mr Tim Yeo (Chair) Conservative
Dan Byles Conservative
Barry Gardiner Labour
Ian Lavery Labour
Dr Phillip Lee Conservative
Albert Owen Labour
Christopher Pincher Conservative
John Robertson Labour
Laura Sandys Conservative
Sir Robert Smith Liberal Democrat
Dr Alan Whitehead Labour

Good luck

Who's who:
http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-o...

Ok have eventually managed to get through to Warmfront and a very helpful man talked me through some of the issues we all seem to have.The general info I have managed to get is:
"1) Warmfront is due to run until 2013 (so he understands!)
2)No more applications can be taken this financial year.
3)Applications start again in April 2011 after Government Spending Review.
4) Warmfront will never sell as door to door.
5) All installers are registered with EAGA and will wear name badges when calling.
6) System seems to be:
*Apply to Warmfront
*Eaga sends a surveyor
*Work approvwed or refused.
*Installers are given the job
*Installers send their surveyor (this is where additional money may be mentioned if over Grant limit)
7) Some boilers can be bought cheaper via online suppliers but price quoted will not include parts required, fitting or labour.
8)There are complaints and who deals with them depends on the sort of complaint it is!
9)0800 316 2805 is the freephone number.....you will get fed up hearing how important your phone call is....but somebody will eventually answer!
10) MPS are responsible for introduction of this scheme and its up to them to seek accountability.
That's as much as I could get......don't shoot the messenger, I tried!

I cannot help but smile and wonder what the person's name was whom you have spoken to, I would not mind betting it is the same one who has let me down totally.

I first filled in my form for the grant in February 2010 and was told it would be 6 months approximately. I kept ringing, writing all the way through after the initial 6 months to no avail. Then around about October I rang again and was told a Supplier had been allocated in September but I had heard nothing whatsoever.

I contacted the Supplier who told me they had about 500 jobs so it was taking a long time. They made an appointment sometime later to have a Surveyor call on November 1st 2010. He didn't arrive by lunchtime so I rang Warm Front/Eaga and about 2 hours later I got a telephone call from the Installers to say they had a computer crash and no one had their appointments!! I rang again and spoke to someone different who said the Engineers were all off sick.

I received a new appointment via my MP Office would you believe not from the Installers or Warm Front/Eaga telling me 8th November 2010. The Engineer arrived who was in fact the one who was supposed to come the week before, and his words were 'I told them I couldn't come last week' no mention of computer crash or illnesses.

I rang on 16th November to ask the whereabouts of the grant acceptance only to be told that it was not to hand then and they would be in touch when they worked out a price.

I was always the one who instigated calls and emails. The next thing I heard was middle of January from my MP Office again to say was I going ahead with the quote to my amazement and disbelief he said Warmfront/Eaga had sent me a letter dated 2nd December 2010. I live alone and hardly get any post as it is so the letter never arrived, and I do not believe it was ever written. It still has not arrived to this day.

They wrote to me on 21st January 2011 with the now increased VAT asking me to pay £2005.61 as a heating system for my home would cost £5,500 which when told to many heating engineers were shocked and stunned even one's whom knew my property.

I cannot afford to pay this exorbitant top up so I am afraid short of winning lottery I will have to carry on without any hot water which I have not had for 2 years.

I have read so many stories about massively exorbitant quotations for heating systems from Warm Front/Eaga Installers and also read horrendous stories of boilers not working, not man enough for the job, and heating going off and on constantly. My view is now thank goodness I did not have or borrow £2005.61 as I think it would have been money thrown down the drain. There are also stories of big holes in walls and floors left by these cowboy style installers.

I did ask why I could not just have a new boiler instead of a whole new system but was told it was not possible, I guess they just wanted to get the hands on any money I was stupid enough to part with.

So yes, I think I had a very narrow escape.

Irene

Thanks Irene, How I wish I had a magic wand, some public funding and a bit of insider knowledge. All we have is our experiences and all I can do is my best. Good luck with it all. Back to MP by sound of things!
Dee

Hi
We had booked appointment with plumbers from TOTAL TRADE SERVICE on 15th March 2011( sent us letter as a confirmation), nobody came, we phoned them many times up to now, and nobody cannot answer why plumbers didn't arrive. Electrician was booked for 17th March and he phoned me that he will be at the date promised, but I had to cancel him, as central heating wast replaced. He didn't know, and was surprised as well that plumbers didn't arrive.
I spoke with Sharon- manager of customer service of TTS I suppose, she promised that someone from Planning Department call me back the same date... obviously nobody did.
Today we have got 21 March 2011. No contact whatsoever, and I am afraid that they will cancel job, as everything must be finish till end of March.
Lady, when I asked her about my job, promised that central heating will be install even in April, and I do not have to worrie... Is it true? What should I do now? One week left, and I am completely devastated.

Just had this from DECC......may be worth making a note of names and contact refs!Hope this helps!

Department of Energy & Climate Change
3 Whitehall Place
London
SW1A 2AW
www.decc.gov.uk

Our ref: TO2011/05163

25 March 2011

Dear D. Speers,

Thank you for your email dated 12 March to the Secretary of State, about the Warm Front Scheme. I have been asked to reply.

The Warm Front Scheme will continue until 2013.

From 2013, support for heating and insulation for the most vulnerable will be delivered through the Green Deal for energy efficiency and a new supplier obligation on energy companies. The Green Deal is a key element of our policy to improve household energy efficiency. It will help protect people against price rises through greater energy saving, with special support for the most vulnerable.

The new Energy Company Obligation, starting at the end of 2012, will run in parallel with the Green Deal programme. It is intended to focus particularly on households who cannot achieve financial savings without additional support, including the poorest and most vulnerable and those in hard to treat homes. This includes offering a wider range of measures which improve energy performance, such as heating systems.

We intend to take the powers to create the new Energy Company Obligation in the Energy Bill. We expect to consult on the development of secondary legislation in 2011.

Although the Warm Front Scheme is continuing, it has an allocated budget for this financial year. This budget has already been allocated due to high levels of demand for the Scheme. As a result we are no longer accepting new applications for the Scheme in this financial year. New applications will be accepted early in the new financial year.

With regard to your questions about complaints, the number at Eaga to call is 0800 408 0392. When a customer’s call is answered, they should specify that they wish to raise a complaint so they can be put through to the relevant team.

More information about the Scheme, including the complaints process, can be found at:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/Warmfront

Two PDFs on the page, ‘handling complaints’ and ‘the customer promise’, give details about customer service and complaints, including the complaint escalation process if Eaga are unable to resolve a problem to a customer’s satisfaction.

Yours sincerely,

Richard Bancroft
DECC Correspondence Unit

dear all
NEW BOILER INSTALLATION - Worcester Greenstar Junior
This is a Serious safety warning to everyone

I know of an elderly woman who has recently had a Boiler installed with warm front and I want to bring a serious issue to everyones attention.
Warm front are installing a wonderful Worcester Greenstar Junior into peoples homes.....Now isn't that wonderful as they are great boilers.
Unfortunately, This boiler also has a serious flaw which could seriously harm these poor elderly and disabled individuals.

The problem is that the boiler does not have any means of controlling the water temperature and always comes out extremely hot. Not just hot but blazing hot. enough to do some serious damage to any individual let alone an elderly or disabled person.

This is a serious health and safety concern.....an accident waiting to happen......

This boiler is not to be reccomended for disabled or the elderly people.

It is a Worcester Greenstar Junior range of boilers.

Unfortunately, I want you to know that the water comes out of the boiler at extremely hot temperatures
and I cannot go near it let alone use it..

These elderly and disabled people cannot have a shower anymore...or use this water...... its boiling hot water......

This is not good.....Its a disgrace that Warm front only give boilers to these vulnerable people with inherent flaws.
Gas safe engineers and installers would not reccomend this boiler to anyone let alone vulnerable people.
Its an absolute disgrace that warm Front Knowing full well that this boiler has an inherent flaw are actually installing them.....!!!

Please I ask everyone concerned....to look into this matter as an urgent request before some vulnerable person gets badly burnt....!!!

I do not think that the elderly and disabled were actually thought of when installing and recommending a boiler where the temperature of the water can not be adjusted

Please pass this on the the managing director or chairman of all the organisations concerned.

Thanks for the safety update Amir,
Looks like the Chairman, MD or CEO can be contacted at:
Department of Energy & Climate Change
3 Whitehall Place
London
SW1A 2AW
www.decc.gov.uk
or via your constituency MP....www.writetothem.com
Maybe worth having a chat to someone at:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/Warmfront or failing all, the local and national media.
Good luck, hope this helps.

I have contacted DECC, but suggest contact with MP as well.
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/bo...
Good luck

Been round and round in circles. What is the complaint procedure when each bit of a group tells you to contact the other bit. It is a national disgrace.
What do you actually have to do for the complaint to count as a complaint?
Why is another new replacement body being set up at no doubt vast expense to the public requiring new legislation?
Why is there no money in a pot to rectify the numerous outstanding complaints concerning the provision of a service vital to vulnerable people?
Many of the people are fragile due to age/illness and they have not got the stamina to be fobbed off from dept to dept. Their health and safety is being jeopardised by this ability to evade accountability.

Sadly, that's exactly why they seem to do this....because they can and not many people will make a fuss. Yes, I agree its a national disgrace. Your excellent observations and questions are best posed to your MP www.writetothem.com
Good luck

I have just found this site - D. Speers you are excellent! Anyway - I have been promised twice that a manager will phone back because of bad installation. The pipes are huge thickness (I think left over from a school contract), holes have been left where they misdrilled, instead of cutting slot in coving the pipe tilts away from the wall.... ending up going through ceiling a good three inches away from vertical compared with bottom. The outside brickwork (odd bits of brick used) is falling out and mortar joints gone..... and only just realised that no-one had asked about the removed multi-point.... i.e. just realised that the installers took it without asking. Probably earned a few bob as either scrap or as a second hand multi-point.

Curious if anyone on this page "mislaid" their old unit but not realised until now?

Dear Sir/Madam
Warm Front scheme has been created planned manipulated for this reason from the beginning to transfer money from vulnerable peoples benefits to their own account, supported by the people who works and abuses their power at the houses of Parliaments.No any scheme qualifies to benefit check, for the people who are on benefits. We want to see the list of people who are claiming money on our signature, to conform, if they qualifies. Kind Regards

My application of combi central heating was canceled with twisted lies by the warm front , after i was forced to sign 4 documants and kept waiting for a year. as i believe i should sign the documants after the installation, they already have £3.500 on their accounts. The quality of heating system is cheap of cheapest of all combis, worth only £1.500, Why did they ask me to pay £500.00??? . £3.500.00 is enough to get installed hounest good quality combi in 2 days.
I have very serious health problens now. Shocking,

Thanks for the vote of confidence Stuart.....but I am just another person failed by what appears to be a shoddy Government con!
Stuart, did you have a person who signed off the work?
Sounds like you need to take lots of photos and keep pestering your MP. I was advised Warmfront have used their 2010/11 allocation and will be starting new 2011/12 allocation (April onwards.....started?) So may be worth rejoining the queue, advising your MP you intend to keep him/her updated and expect some answers.
Good luck.

Hi - an inspector came round but just spent a couple of minutes in the presence of my dad who is 90 and virtually blind.

M.P.!!!!! Ho-ho, you jest. My mum died in terrible circumstances at the Manchester Royal Infirmary. I wrote to them to complain and wrote to the M.P. to complain - he "passed" the letter on. I received a standard letter from the hospital catering contractors with my mum's name incorrect --- and with the letter double signed as checked! My M.P. - Gerald Kaufman.... I suppose he was busy buying rugs with our money at the time.

I emailed warmfront on Monday - still waiting for response. Should have thought of photos - excellent idea and will do.

Thanks and keep up the good work.

Sounds like you are up against the same old, same old as me. I have also been exploring NHS Complaints for almost 6 years....and nobody has said I am wrong yet!
Keep plugging away Stuart and make Kaufman accountable by writing to him via www.writetothem.com that way he will show himself up for who he is. You can also check his voting record on www.theyworkforyou.com. You can of course go over his head and contact the Chair of the DECC Select Committee Tim Yeo MP is Chair http://www.parliament.uk/business/commit... maybe its worth keeping an eye on homepage too:http://www.parliament.uk/business/commit...
Good luck

Thanks again D. - I have news. I sent email to customer.management@eaga.com and pointed out this website and the Dailymirror website (has people with complaints like ours after they did an "expose").
I sent it on Monday .... was phoned this morning this morning by very helpful gentleman who said that he would pass it on to Warmfront team and it WOULD be acted on. (personal thought at that time - oh yeh, I've heard that one before!!)

Amazing. This p.m. had phone call from Warmfront... want to make appointment to see work. I explained that aa it is my dad's in Manchester, would they please ring him direct. AND THEY DID - immediately! Made an appointment Monday a.m.

First gent said that they had been working to reduce the number of complaints. I will keep you informed. Have a GREAT day!

As ever, hope springs eternal....well done Stuart!
Dee:o)

Good Morning all,

I do not wish to put out the fire of enthusiasm Stuart but I also did the very same thing as you forwarded a link to this and other national newspapers debate on Warmfront. I did not get rang nor did they refer to it.

But I would bet my best hat that the gentleman you spoke to was indeed the same one that made me loads of empty promises which never happened.

I never did get my heating system even though I had been granted it. They wanted me to give them over £2000 saying the system would cost £5,500 which according to at least 3 Heating Companies was way above what it should have been. I asked if they could just replace the boiler and the 4 radiators that were causing problems and they refused point blank.

As I have said previously I do think I had a very narrow escape from their clutches.

Hi Irene --- Firstly, my dad, although unlucky in standard of fitting was lucky with the "form filler", i.e. because my dad had no money they said they would use the grant only..... and so only fit radiators in kitchen, lounge, hall and two bedrooms --- which left one living room and one small bedroom without. He was happy with that.

The guy who phoned in response to the email said that someone would phone to make appointment - she did so - TWICE.... and the appointment has been made for Monday so to be fair I am hopeful.

I think we have the makings of a book draft here.....title suggestions please.....here's mine:
*Warmfront.......hopefully!
*Eaga ......not eager!
*DECC.....what you end up feeling like doing!
*Warmfront complaints ....a fairytale by the Brothers Grimm
or just AAARRGGGHH!:)

Yes - so far - someone went round to my dad as arranged and inspected the previous work. Spent half an hour checking everything on my list. a good sign was that when estimating the number of bricks needed for the outside replacement patch he actually increased the number. My dad asked him why and he said because he wanted to key them in properly. The previous person had just put three layers of bricks on top of each other not staggered as in the rest of house brickwork.... so looking good.... so far!

Excellent! Lessons will be learnt!
Well done.

From Kevin
To D. Speers
Thank you for your energy it gives us hope. This is my story and letter sent to Eaga.
Dear Sir / Madam
The reason I am writing to you is that in 2007 through Warm Front we had a new boiler fitted under the government scheme as we fulfilled the criteria.
All works well with the boiler, and until December 2010 we had no need to use our gas fire fitted in the lounge. The fire wouldn`t work so we called in a local Corgi registered fitter to examine the fault. Upon inspection of the system he reported that when the boiler was fitted the gas pipe to the fire had been disconnected in the loft.
Sequence of Events
1. 13/08/07 Boiler installation
2. 16/08/07 Electrical Installation Certificate – Declaration (The said works do not impair the safety of the existing instillation)
3. 17/08/07 BCG Ltd Gas Safety & Service Inspection paperwork (Safety Check for all appliances including installation pipework)
4. 18/06/08 Annual Service Check.
5. 21/12/10 Contacted WarmFront ref gas fire, he said he would get back later that day. I phoned again later he had forgotten to call but had spoken to a manager and said WarmSure would be in contact in us 8-10 days
6. From that point until the end of February I made approximately 6 calls all ending with the same result a Manager would get back to me. – Nothing!
7. During conversations WarmFront contacted WarmSure and BGC on my behalf with the result that both companies refused to help stating it was not their fault and it was passed warranty.
8. My final call to WarmFront in February resulted in being told a Manager had looked at it and said they could do nothing as Government cuts meant there was no funding and to re-apply in April.

I feel that because BGC disconnected the pipe this is not a warranty issue, and even if it were the Certificate issued by NICEIC states there is a 6 year warranty on electrical work.

My wife suffers from PPS (Post Polio Syndrome) which in turn induces cold intolerance. This and the fact I am unemployed as I am a carer for my wife made us eligible for the Government grant. During the cold winter it would have been beneficial to her to have had an instant heat supply and of course we would have saved on gas by not having to heat the entire bungalow.

During my lengthy and repetitive calls to WarmFront at no point did anyone explain the complaints procedure and the fact I could contact Eaga.
Hopefully now this problem can be rectified.

Further to this Eaga contacted me to say “ Sorry out of warranty we can`t do anything”

I wish I had read this history of complaints going back over many years BEFORE I had agreed to let Warmfront 'help me' by installing new CH boiler & replacing 2 of the radiators. It is now 2 years on, and I am still waiting to have the useless radiators exchanged.(So here is the story, and if you read to the end you'll find a new twist on previous stories!)

Well actually I'm not still waiting for new radiators, as in Feb 2011 the company that had been allocated the work (Fenhams in Newcastle) apparently told WarmFront that I had not responded to any of the letters or phone calls they had made to me 'over a period of several months' ... so Warmfront then cancelled the job! I can assure you I had not received ANY such letters or phone calls. I think it was just an excuse put forward by a Plumbing/Heating Company that could not do the work or would not do the work.

After speaking to several people at Warmfront about this in Feb I eventually spoke to a chap called Godfrey in Grants Division - and he said he had in fact received other calls saying Fenhams were cancelling jobs and quoting exactly the same reason. Godfrey was not taken in, but I don't think he could do much about it. Dawn at Warmfront (she had been investigating my previous complaints) was supposed to discuss it with him and phone me back. Eventually it was confirmed that there was nothing I could do except wait until May to hear if the scheme was still in existence, and if it was then I could make a new application and hope that I wouldn't have to wait another year or two!

So I gave up, and scraped the money together and got a local plumber to do the work in March - and guess what - a Plumbing Company has phoned this morning (13th May) to say they have my two radiators in stock and can they arrange to come to fit them!!!!!!!!!!

After another phone call (37 minutes on hold to the complaints dept,repeatedly hearing a recorded message that says how popular the scheme is!) I'm told that I can't have the radiators if I've now bought some myself and that it's unlikely I can claim any compensation as there wasn't a contract to supply and fit radiators. I've told them the local Law Centre might think differently - so watch this space.
Cath (Sheffield)

Exhausting Cath.....thanks for letting us know and believe me if I had my time again, I would scrape together the amount I needed for a new boiler....one which was installed correctly and didn't flood the whole downstairs of my home!
Will watch with interest!
Dee

Hi Kevin, Sounds like you really are being put through the mill!
I really don't know what to suggest except maybe challenge Warmfront/Eaga to provide their part of the contract.......what does the promised blurb say?

Or call Gas Safe....previously Corgi (who then had a free safety check team.....(in my case a Corgi Inspector arrived with the installers and gave them 10 days to fix things!)

Or call the installers and say that unless they fix things in accordance with Gas Safe procedures, you will be seeking their removal from the gas safe register.
I hope this helps.
Fingers crossed
Dee

kuhjjkh

Sorry about the above pressed wrong button....

I have now paid £3500 for my heating to be done! Had no choice. no heating, hot water for a year, and the house went really damp.. Had a surveyor round last week to replace 8 radiators from Warm Front, he has quoted £7700, they want £4201 as the grant is only £3500, from me as they are delighted I am able to have £3500 form the grant... my own quote (admitted without a thermostat in the quote) was £900 all in!.
Spoken to Warm-front today 31 may 2011 and they are looking into it for me (Yea!) pigs might fly...been on the phone from 8am , it is now 9-15 am....been hanging on to music for 35 minutes... next episode soon.

Usual nightmare by sound of things....what company are Warmfront using? Any luck getting through via them?
This may be worth wading through...although its a few years old now!
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/show... and I'll send details of this link!
Good luck
Dee

Graham DO NOT PAY WARMFRONT £3,500 it is my personal opinion you will be horrified with the results of having their contractors doing the work. 8 Radiators £7,700 never heard such a ludricrous figure in all my life. Warmfront I believe are fleecing their own little pockets with vulnerable peoples money.

I have read many horror stories of Warmfront Heating Installers causing absolute carnage in peoples homes.

Do be careful.

Well, today received another quote! 3rd June 2011
To replace heater (I just paid £3000 for?)
Replace cylinder (that's new too?)
cost £3,882.31
my contribution £436???
No mention of my Radiators...... been on phone for.40 mins now... apparently they are having high call volume
Gave up on the phone till Monday now...
Oh by the way the quote is for a gas supply? and boiler too? I haven't gas in the house and I am solid fuel, that's why I had to replace the boiler myself, because WF couldn't find a contractor to do the job?

Hi,

My grandparents, both in their 90s had a heating system fitted last year under the Warm Front Scheme. When their annual service was carried out on the 25th May this year, the boiler was condemned as unsafe. Apart from the concerns that this was fitted by a qualified engineer and then inspected by someone else, it still managed to be passed as ok. The computer unit was also defective and an Eaga engineer called me at 7.40am 2 days later on the 27th May to say he would be calling that day to fix the computer unit. Having confirmed a time with him, my grandparents, who despite their age are still fairly busy, remained in to wait for him. Now, this being a Friday and just before half term I was annoyed but not totally surprised when he did not show up. He then did not answer his phone. A few days later I telephoned Eaga who said that the engineer had reported he visited and 'educated' my grandparents in how to use the unit. This was a complete lie. Another engineer was sent once they accepted that the original guy had not visited. He arrived, with a computer unit to fix. He did not have details about the boiler being condemned. So I have been phoning Eage and Warmsure, the servicers and I am being passed from pillar to post. The latest is that Warmsure only sent through the job report to Eaga on the 6th June. Apparently it is Eagas responsibility but Warmsure are providing relief as Eaga do not have enough available engineers. So now, Warmsure (are you keeping up?)are waiting to be sent a job from Eaga, about the job they in turn had sent to Eaga. The worst part of this is that customer service is a joke, some manager called 'Jessica' has been less than helpful and no one seems to care that my grandparents in their nineties have been without hot water for nearly 3 weeks. When I have asked to speak to someone higher I am told an email will be sent to a manager to call me... Im still waiting. Help!!

I wish I could Spencer......sounds par to the course sadly!
Sent a link to this growing litany of failure to your MP and ask him/her to seek a Parliamentary answer from the Minister ...Chris Huhne I believe. Also contact Age Concern and see if they have any more ideas.....the fact is your grandparents (or anyone else for that matter!) should not have to put up with this!
Hope this helps
Dee

Eaga plc (company number 03858865) is now Carillion Energy Services Limited. See the Companies House web page on http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/f044bb...

The website for Carillion Energy Services Limited is www.carillionenergy.com.

Mike Unwalla

Thanks Mike,
Much appreciated.
Dee

So glad I found this web page and thanks to D. Speers for all the help and information.

I think you might already know most of this but here is my "two-pence worth".

Carillion is a £1.5bn (approx) outsourcing company, that believe it will be profitable to take advantage of loads of new "green subsidies" for technologies like solar panels and energy efficiency. They purchased Eaga for around £300M and share price jumped almost 10% after Eaga's board recommended the offer. I assume they wanted and got the ready made support services and customers of Warmfront/Eaga as well as the "contracts" from the Government. It might be interesting to know what that is worth as far as the "warmfront" tax payers money is concerned and how much the Government have allocated to Warmfront. Wonder what the share price would have been if they lost the scheme or is the scheme had been dropped.

The CEO of Carillion, said initiatives like the "Green Deal" where companies and homes will be lent money to invest in energy efficiency, are "music to the ears" of companies like his. They estimates that the UK energy services market should be worth about £20bn a year.

I've over 75 points raised in numerous correspondence with Eaga/Carillion regarding a boiler installation under the warmfront scheme and they have failed in the basics of a respondents duty. If I every get a written response to all my points(1st letter dated Nov 2010) then I'll write to MP and DECC and also ask about the Carillion purchase of Eaga.

I can't say the stress contributed to my health issues as I was diagnosed and suffered before I got involved with warmfront, but it certainly doesn't help. By the nature of the scheme everyone on the scheme is "vulnerable" in some way and in addition they are not the "buyer" of the service provided by Carillion/Eaga/Warmfront so its hard to get an empathetic response. DECC and contacting the NP must be the right approach and once I have a full response I'll be doing just that...........unless they come up with a response I'm completely happy with.

HI THERE EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM.....i workd for a company that installs for warmfront, i have been ripped off as well as having to fix shoddy workmanship, BELIEVE ME THIS IS NOT JUST A CONSUMER COMPLAINT, my flabber is ghasted from all of the people who have been messed around by the scheme, I reported my company to eaga,to my mp, email to number 10 and warmfront but what i see on here is that warmfront maybe on the take too!! HOW CAN WE PROVE THIS?? I HAVE PROOF OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO ME SO FAR AND WILL CONTINUE TO FIGHT THIS COMPANY AND THE MOTHER COMPANIES THAT GO WITH IT....please contact the ombudsman, trading standards and watchdog about warmfront, EAGA AND ANY INDEPENDANT COMPANIES THAT CARRY OUT RUBBISH WORK AT THE COST OF THE TAXPAYER AND ULTIMATELY THEIR LOVED ONES PATIENCE, we must stop this as it is a scam scam scam, from customers being scammed to tradesmen, when will it end, if all of you have contacted mp's then this goes bigger than this country and JUST MAYBE THIS IS WHEN THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITY CAN COME THROUGH FOR US NORAMLTONS......PS THANK YOU TO D.Speers, I WAS STARTING TO DESPAIR, BELIEVING I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO SAW THROUGH THE FACADE OF THIS SCHEME, ALSO THE SCHEME IS NOT WINDING DOWN AS FAR AS I KNOW IT IS THE INSIDES OF THE OPERATION THAT IS SLOWING IT DOWN SOMEONE IS MAKING A LOT OF MONEY FOR DOING NOTHING HERE AND I COULD NAME A FEW NAMES BUT I AM ALREADY BOUND LEGALLY NOT TO TALK ABOUT THE COMPANY I WORKED FOR....WELL BOUND UNTIL I DECIDE THAT I WILL FIGHT IN COURT (WHEN I FIND THE MONEY AS I HAVE BEEN DUPED)

Thanks Augustus,

Your honesty and bravery is to be applauded! Thank you for contacting your MP and all the other public bodies....and I urge others to also do so.

Kind Regards
Dee

I have wrote in before about the problems that I have had with my boiler over the last 3-4 years, I took your advise last year and contacted my MP. who contacted Warm Front, who told her a pack of lies that they had been out to fix my boiler, that they had done everything, and my boiler had been working perfectly (it has never work properly from the day it was put in)considering when the inspector came out to look at it a few weeks later there was a list as long as your arm, things that were not done right they hadn't even put a extractor fan in and even when they did that they put different coloured bricks back into my front wall (the cupboard is outside my house and the exsractor fan had to go on the outside wall) my neighbour mentioned it but I didnt say anything as I was so grateful that I did have the new boiler put in with no cost,I had no money and did not know what I was going to do as the old boiler had packed up, to get back to the nitty gritty it was my word against there's (Warm Fronts) but they said that I can make another new application, I had a letter about 4 months ago informing me that they would be in touch in a couple of days to arrange an appointment for my heating to be assessed but it didn't mean that I will get it done its up to the assessor, if I have no money in the allowance I wont get it done the thing is they have been paid the full amount from the goverment then more money topped up by a council donation and now they want more for a new application, I cant argue with them I have been waiting at least 4 months for them to aknowledge the new application,I have no hot water from the gas central heating I am using the back up electric heating that was put in when they fitted the tank that barely warms the water I have to have luke warm baths and thats with the switch on 24/7 I have only about half the radiators working in the house now that actually work and the system has to be booted up all the time as the boiler switches off and the pilot light goes out all the time so I have to go out in the worse weather snow etc. to do it so basically I have to eat humble pie and just hope that when they come out to me on the 18th of this month they will fix it if they dont I am not looking forward to another hard winter with the same problem only worse now, I know that eventuaally the whole system will break down completely and I just dont know what I will do then, get myself into debt I suppose by having homeserve fix it and pay in instalments witch is not a good idea on top of the struggle to pay gas and electric bills as they get higher and higher

Hi Eileen,
Sorry to hear you are still having problems....it certainly is a nightmare! Is it worth going to local Citizens Advice Bureau as they have been commenting on fuel issues for some time now. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/city-news/2...
Sorry dont know what else to suggest as like you I am just a Warmfront customer too!
Is it worth keeping a log of every phone call, every conversation to Warmfront/Eaga and quote all to MP etc. ......Parliament is going into summer break soon so will have to be aware of that.
Good luck
Dee

I've posted previous experience of problems with Warmfront here on 13th May 2011, and just thought I'd send an update. My last message described how Warmfront's Contractor had cancelled the job in January (for no legitimate reason, and without telling me until I had been kept in limbo for several months). No matter what I said or did, they wouldn't budge. Their final comment was that I would have to wait until May to see if the scheme was still in existence, and if it was still available then I would have to make a fresh application to get the work completed. This would be the third year I had been told to wait until May then make a fresh application.

Anyway, after numerous calls to Warmfront I was convinced that I would get nothing else from them without another year's wait, so I scraped the money together and I paid a local plumber to buy the missing parts and finish the work for me. At last I had everything working and a warm house, though it had cost me another £800 that I could ill afford.

...and guess what, a Warmfront contractor phoned me 2 weeks later to say he had the parts I needed and he needed to arrange to do the job! Apparently Warmfront HAD reallocated the job, but hadn't thought to tell me. So I had to start going through the complaints process yet again, as I was annoyed that I had spent £800 that I didn't need to spend. The Contractor said I couldn't have the parts if I had paid someone else to complete the job. (I would probably have given them away to another needy customer, or even sold them on Ebay!)At first Warmfront still said there was nothing they could do as they hadn't broken any contract, but eventually they asked me to put my complaint in writing and they told me to send in a copy of my plumber's bill. Foolishly, I thought it sounded as if they might offer some compensation - probably not the full cost, but a percentage of it would have been OK.

My hopes were dashed when 'Andrew' phoned from the Complaints Dept to say they had received the invoice and full details of the situation in my letter, but there was nothing they could do as the Scheme did not allow customers to choose their own contractor. He also explained that the scheme did not give out grants, and that I could not expect to be reimbursed retrospectively if I chose to go ahead and have the work done before contacting them. He also told me that their contractors are specially selected and trained to deliver a high standard of skill and workmanship (Yes, I can sense your groans)and that they won't pay out for any Tom, Dick or Harry to do the work.

I spent over 30 minutes on the phone, explaining over and over again that I had only 'chosen' to have the work completed because they had repeatedly told me that the job had been cancelled and I had no chance of getting it done unless I waited at least another year - and even then it was doubtful. He just stuck to his script, completely misinterpreting my letter and my description of the events. Having their 'complaints procedure' and 'customer charter' in front of me, I asked if he was going to send me the official deadlock letter - but he didn't know what I was talking about. He also said I could only write to the Ombudsman by way of my MP, which I think is probably incorrect. He kept saying that Warmfront had no funds that could be used for compensation, yet their own leaflet says that the Ombudsman may decide to award financial compensation. He didn't know where that funding might come from. Eventually he suggested that I write to the complaints department yet again, but as he was from that department I wouldn't get anywhere!

There were many lies and contradictions throughout the conversation - not from myself - but I won't bother going into them here.

So do I continue to fight for some compensation, as I certainly wouldn't have paid someone to finish the work if I had thought there was any chance of getting it done within a few months - or do I just give in and walk away from all the stress and hassle?

People who need to use Warmfront are probably living with stressful illnesses, or living in stressful situations of another kind. Despite this we are continually being exploited, robbed, and fobbed off with a pack of lies. (How any decent person would want to work for such an awful organisation is beyond me.)
It saddens me to admit it, but I'm not going to carry on campaigning and complaining any more. I have far too much stress in my life already. At least my £800 has got the job completed by a plumber I can trust, and I now have hot water and heating.
Catherine Sorsby

P.S. Warmfront isn't my only complaint. Over the last six months I've found that if any Govt department can get it wrong, it will get it wrong ... then it's up to me to alert them to their errors and explain to them how they can correct their mistakes. I've really had enough of Pensions, Benefits, Income Tax, National Insurance, DVLA, Job Centre, Transport, Equality policies and practice, Endowment Shortfall claims, mis-sold PPI claims, etc, etc. Is it just me, or does anyone else feel like this?

I know exactly how you feel Catherine and recognise all you have referred to...beleive me 6 years in NHS Complaints process has been a huge learning curve!
I have found Ombudsman process is another system full of the usual rhetoric......its walking the talk all seem to have a problem with.
You must do what you feel is right for you and its great that you now have access to a plumber you can trust. To be honest part of me would walk away and preserve my sanity but another part would write one last detailed letter to Manager at Warmfront/Eaga Complaints, cc to MP and Chris Huhne Secretary of State ......detaining every phone call and how long you have spent seeking resolution ....in fact I would make a claim for everything....parts/time/phone calls/ postage etc...and then refer to all the publicity and stats you can find...happy to help if I can.
Try:
http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations... .....and....
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/show...
May be worth cc to the Energy and Climate Change Select Committee too...as "energy prices have gone up again and I can ill afford to pay for boiler parts because Warmfront failed to keep me informed!" Cross party membership and other details here
http://www.parliament.uk/eccpublications
Good luck
Dee

ps I finally had my insurance policy excess refunded just last week as my insurance company cross claimed and Warmfront Contractor admitted liability....have had my no claims reinstated too! RESULT!:o)

For info:
From Warmfront under FOI request I made in 2009:
I enclose the information you requested:

1) How many heating contractors are on the Warm Front Scheme?

88 heating contractors are currently registered to work on the Scheme.

2) How many contractors have left the scheme since 2007?

Three contractors have left the Scheme since 2007.

3) How many complaints about substandard work have Warm Front received in the last year?

eaga plc, the Scheme Manager received 916 complaints (IN JUST UNDER A YEAR!) relating to sub-standard work for the period 1 April 2008 to 31 March 2009
88 contractors = 916 complaints ....so much for comment made to Catherine " He also told me that their contractors are specially selected and trained to deliver a high standard of skill and workmanship"

4) How many insurance claims were the result of shoddy workmanship by Warm Front contractors?

Neither the Department nor eaga, the Scheme Manager, holds this information. Any insurance claim would be addressed directly to the individual contractor.

REFER TO INITIAL REQUEST AT TOP OF THIS:
D. Speers

12 June 2009

Dear Sir or Madam,

Please can you let me have the contact details of who to write to regarding complaints on the Warmfront scheme?
I understand that DECC have only just started recording the number of complaints since April this year and according to Parliament "up
until the end of May DECC received 275 expressions of
dissatisfaction with the scheme"....that's over 137 per month....is this acceptable?

Yours faithfully,

D. Speers

THEN JAN 2010- DECC replied:
"All complaints about the Scheme should be dealt with in the first instance by eaga plc, the company who are contracted to deliver the Scheme on the Department's behalf and, as such, are responsible for the processing of Warm Front applications. They can be contacted using the details below:

Phone: 0800 316 2805
e-mail: [email address]
Address: eaga plc, Customer Management Team, FREEPOST NEA12054, Newcastle
upon Tyne

2. When did DECC start recording the data on number of Warm Front complaints?
DECC have consistently monitored the number of complaints received by the Warm Front Scheme Manager, eaga plc, since the inception of the present
phase of the Scheme in 2005. This information is formally reviewed on a monthly basis with eaga. Further work regarding customer satisfaction is
carried out by our independent quality assessors, White Young Green.

The Department began recording the number of complaints it received directly in April 2009 and enhanced data capture and recording process
commenced in August 2009, breaking down the nature of complaints.

3. How many Warm Front complaints have DECC been made aware of?
In terms of complaints received by the Scheme Manager, we can advise that the total figure for complaints received from 1 June 2005 through to 31
December 2009 is 17,737.

THATS!>>>>>>>>> the total figure for complaints received from 1 June 2005 through to 31December 2009 is 17,737.

I am an electrician working on the warmfront scheme. You might be interested to know that the tradesmen doing the jobs are being paid around £80 a day. The rest of the money is going into the pockets of the people running the companies. If you take 2 tradesmen over 2 days thats £360 labor per job. even after you take fuel and parts that leaves a lot of money that someone at the top is creaming off.

Ive spent the last 3 weeks clearing up work done by people who have been laid off and some of the things ive seen have been shocking.
Having said that most of the customers i see are really happy with the lads whove showed up and done the job. Its the organisation from eaga and the other companies that is letting us down.

Heres a good example.
On every outdoor oil boiler eaga surveyors order a single channel remote programmable thermostat. These boilers require a 2 channel timer. If i fit the one eaga have ordered they will fail the job and fine me for not doing it properly(the guy failng the job is often the same guy who ordered it in the first place.). If i return it to the wholesalers and fit the correct timer i have to hope that they dont lose the paperwork or i will be fined for not using the original one.

The big problem with this scheme is that those who do the organisation are not qualified tradesmen.
And the work is awarded based on whose playing golf with who.

Thanks Dave,
You are SPOT ON!
Of course the team that actually carry out the work are usually friendly, affable and mainly competent. Sadly, through lack of regulation too much poor work goes unchecked hence people are left with having to deal with Eaga complaints! You have just confirmed that not all work carried out is of a high standard "Ive spent the last 3 weeks clearing up work done by people who have been laid off and some of the things ive seen have been shocking." With regret, its vulnerable people who are often left with the chaos of a poor installation and the wrath of failure is often focused on the installers (who may or may not have done a good job!) I say, if you have a poor installation, keep records and start at the top!Call your MP (you may not think they can help but asking for their help is a first priority!) alert your local paper, always ask for the manager of any department you are dealing with, keep records, times, dates etc! contact the Dept of Energy and Climate Change....and the Dept of Energy and Climate Change Select Committee.....hassle all until you have an answer. (Facts on Warmfront failures are now readily available!)
Oh that we could harness our energy!
Good luck
Dee

Hi everyone, and my deepest sympathy! I too contacted warm Front, had a guy come and do an assesment of home, I was approved. That was in Aug 2010, as I hadnt heard anything by March 2011 I called and was told at top of list and just waiting to be allocated a contactor! I did get few letters in post "Your ongoing application" but nothing else. So today 18th July called again, and have been told that there is no money left, and as I am on DLA & IB still and not new ESA then nothing they can do! My old boiler will NOT make it through this winter, and I have a 5 year old! I feel so let down! There is a possibility I wont get "rolled" over to new ESA until 2014, and have no money for new boiler! What happened to money from the fiscal year I applied in? Anybody with any answers? I have written a complaint to Eaga, and my MP. Any other suggestions?

Cheers

Jarrs

Hi Jarrs,
Part of me thinks you have had a lucky escape and all I can recommend is same as I did. Dept of Energy and Climate Change(DECC) will say go to MP.There is an unwritten protocol in Parliament that says only your constituency MP can make contact on your behalf! As Rt Hon Chris Huhne is Minister at DECC, get MP to write to him for an answer on your case. I believe protocol doesnt apply if lobbying members of a Select Committee so have a look on Dept of Eneregy and Climate Change Select Committee Home page will have list of members and latest news. However, nothing much is happening at present as I think Parliament is in recess.....give DECC Committee a call....and ask what is process involved if father of 5 yr old and no heating, has been promised a boiler and still waiting......what do you do?
Hope this helps
Dee

To All,

If still having probs with Warmfront, suggest you let your MP have this link (that'll wake them up!)as it shows number of complaints previously made.... http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wa... and to find out who your MP is try www.theyworkforyou.com or to write to them www.writetothem.com

Good luck
Dee

FYI
I have just been advised that Warmfront are now willing to use local contrators (I believe Eaga are out of picture!)

Also worth noting that since last year, Attendance Allowance is NO longer acceptable for a Warmfront Grant.

Hi D Speers.....can you tell us what when and how Eaga were taken off???? This could be good news BUT Eaga no longer trade and are now Carillion! They do have the contract now or so I am lead to believe so your update may not be as good news as you first thought!! I have been on to Trading Standards several time and whilst I know I will not get a response from them with the outcome ONLY VOLUME of complaints about this scheme will make them investigate, I implor anyone who receives updates on this feed to contact Consumer Direct about their concerns and send them a copy of this link, I have tried the MP route and will continue to do so but if MP's ARE having their palms greased by these companys on this scheme then we will get nowhere and fast......to point out that Chris Hune and his wifes integrity are in question over the situation regarding his wife taking 3 points on his behalf should tell us that maybe he isn't the MP to right to as he is as dishonest as the rest, at least Trading Standards are an individual body!! I am open to correction if I am wrong about any of this, so please do say if I am!!

Many thanks and go go go to http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/
and complain complain complain, remember volume in complaint is the only way they will pay attention to this!!!!

Like you Augustus, I can only post what I have heard...I dont work for DECC or any related companies and it was whilst seeking advice for an elderly aunt I was advised of latest update. But I agree this litany of complaints must be referred to. Bear in mind the link: http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wa...
Just as an update too: In January 2010 I was told in a reply from DECC..." The Department began recording the number of complaints it received directly in April 2009 and enhanced data capture and recording process commenced in August 2009, breaking down the nature of complaints.

I asked:
3. How many Warm Front complaints have DECC been made aware of?
In terms of complaints received by the Scheme Manager, we can advise thatthe total figure for complaints received from 1 June 2005 through to 31 December 2009 is 17,737.

Under the initial Departmental monitoring process, which was only in place from April to June 2009, the Department recorded a total of 275 expressions of dissatisfaction about various issues. However, as explained above, this process was revised, starting anew in August 2009.

The last period for which data is available is August 2009 - November 2009, during which time the Department received 421 complaints, although not all of these would have involved a clear example of service failure.
Some may for example relate to dissatisfaction with regulations or Scheme design. Complaint figures for December 2009 have not yet been finalised.
Maybe someone would like to ask DECC for an update?
Good luck

The DECC are dragging their feet it seems or rather don't want to rock this very lucrative boat for the palm greasers!!!! I have and will continue to contact each and every official body that I can in the hope that if I make enough waves someone somewhere will investigate the system from top to bottom, I did have a lady at the DECC who was going to help but she sadly does not work there anymore! Suprise suprise!! Are there any honest to goodness people out there who witness what goes on and can put the wheels of an investigation in motion this really does cause me for concern! Many thanks once again for your response!

You have posed the main question Augustus!

Hi all. Just to let you know I returned a part to the wholesalers today and was told it would be credited to Carillion so it seems they are running things now. Have heard its the same people just a new company name.

Yes Carillion were Eaga who were originally Iguana!! Well there may be some good news one of the official bodies I contacted are commencing preliminary investigations to see if the complaints I have made hold any weight!!!! Fingers crossed I for once may have emailed enough people to get noticed! The emails I have sent have been too

Dominic Littlewood
Dispatches
Rogue Traders - Watchdog
Number 10
They work for you - MP
DECC
OFT
Trading Standards

There are a few others too but if anyone is interested in doing something try googling the above and email everyone like I did!

Good Luck everyone
.....and thank you Dave and Augustus for recent information. Seems the same old , same old going on. aka if it aint working give it a new name, spend millions on re branding and when a complaint comes in say that it belonged to previous body and therefore is closed. NHS Have gone it off to a fine art!
Just a word of warning Augustus......really glad you are having your complaint heard and I would advise that you dont allow them to "CLOSE" it or "UPHOLD" it until you are happy they have "RESOLVED" it. Seems Eaga training was telling complaints case workers that "UPHELD" means closed!
Well done too on emails sent.....its the only way to be heard! You have to become a become a polite but persistent pain in the proverbial!

Meant to say, please feel free to give MPs etc a link to this site and maybe they'll see more evidence of the pathetic Government scheme which allegedly ends "Fuel poverty".

Revised my feelings on "its like pushing water uphill" and now have to add "whilst wearing wellies and knitting fog!!"

please all who read this click on the link below NEEDS UR SUPPORT! IF YOU CLICK THE LINK EVENTUALLY GOOGLE WILL PLACE AN AD UNDERNEATH THE COMPANY NAME SO THAT ANYONE SEARCHING THAT COMPANY WILL SEE THE COMPLAINT, the company also receive an email each time this complaint is viewed!! !!

http://www.thesqueakywheel.com/complaint...

hello and thankyou to D. Speers and everyone else. Some very useful info on here which it looks like ill be needing.

Well we got a £6000 grant from the warmfront scheme for a full central heating system. We had to pay an additional £1400 to top up the grant. It is now almost 1 year since we was given the grant and it was only this week that they came to do it.

Supposedly a 2 day job. We are now into day 10 and apparently it is finished. I called an emergency plumber last night to fix a leak so not a good start. We are also missing 1 radiator for the kitchen and they have left the house in a right mess. All the carpets just thrown down with off cuts of pipe still under them in places and under lay folded up. There is a number of other bits and pieces that are well below standard but i would be typing allnight.

Overall i am very dissapointed in the work that has been done by total trade services uk ltd. I do still have a cheque for them for several hundred pounds so hopefully they will come back to sort things out.

Will keep you updated on my progress.

Cheers.

Sounds like the same old Warmfront Chris,
Sorry to hear that "lessons are not being learnt"
Have you had the person around who signs all off as satisfactory yet? If not, my advice is take lots of photos, and can I suggest you write a list of what needs to be done still and present that to him/her, if they want your signature then they must fix things!.....you can say you have photos as evidence!

Also emergency call out for leak....if you still owe them monies, I would be tempted to deduct what it cost for emergency plumber, from what you owe them!
They'll wriggle but I'm afraid "sue me" would be my answer now...of course your decision!

I recognize the floorboards and carpet thing......I almost put my foot in the hole they left.....and then caught my hand an a panel pin left sticking out of wall panel covering pipes! SHODDY!! Best bit was boiler wrongly installed with condense pipe put into downpipe (without a fall) I came back home, after four days looking after elderly parents, to find ground floor like a lake!! It took,over 1 year to get new kitchen and flooring sorted. I dealt with 10 insurance companies (loss adjusters, asbestos testing, etc!) I have my home back thankfully and just recently found out that my insurance company refunded my excess because they cross claimed against the installers, using evidence I supplied, so I still have full insurance and its not been loaded either! Worth keeping notes!

PS to all:
Find out who your MP is www.theyworkforyou.com and make an appointment for a "surgery meeting" with them or www.writetothem.com for an easy online letter. I suggest you copy the link to these experiences***, for MPs consideration and theres plenty more "Warmfront news" on this site www.whatdotheyknow.com.....MP should be able to help by asking the Minister Chris Huhne what is being done about it!!
***Link to cases: http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wa...
Good luck

Well, managed to get a surveyor to look at my radiators as in the end I had to pay £4000 to replace the solid fuel heater myself, he came and said "Cant do out now its working"! they are so annoying as they just closed my case after 2 years... and now need to find £500 to get my rads working , no point in contacting MP as they just haven't the time to bother... I GIVE UP!

Soooo frustrating Graham, can fully understand why you want to "give up".....sadly that's what they rely on!
Good luck

Hi D Speers.

Sounds like ive got it easy compared to the problems you had. They have not learnt any lessons.

Ive not had anyone round to sign the job off yet. Have already taken lots of pictures of the mess and deducted the cost of the emergency plumber off the amount i still owe. hopefully it wont come to that.

Well had the company on the phone today, and all they wanted was there cheque. So after a few minutes i got to speak to the director of the company and he is coming to visit in a couple of days. Will keep you updated on my progress.

Another problem which i now have is, There was some free oil listed on my paperwork which was delivered and this morning i got a bill for it. I called the oil company straight away to investigate and i now have an account set up with all my details on, which i knew nothing about. The oil company are now investigating the problem with there fraud team so will have to see how it goes lol.

It just gets better and better.

I wander how many other people there are in our situation who dont speak up?

Hi Chris,
No lessons but whilst you owe money you have the upper hand! You sound like you have the evidence to show the director when he turns up.......
As for the oil situation, have never heard of that before but to be honest unless you have signed something its not a contract I believe. Would wait and see on this too.
Getting pretty ridiculous! All else fails show this to your director and suggest you have every right to be worried!
Good Luck
Dee

Hi Chris, could you give me information relating to the Director who is coming to see you? what is his name etc? I have persued Total Trade Services through Carillion, whom I believe are just as corrupt, but they told me that the ringleader (director D Stevenson) had left and that Total Trade was no longer, they trade as Tempo Energy Services now and Tempo have been liquidated and so i find it very interesting to hear they are still trading! Please check out what i say by going to Companies House and putting in the company name, all of the info is on there!! Maybe you should post all of your complaints, findings and dealings with the evidence to number 10 and not the ever corrupt Chris Hume!!

Hi Augustus, You are correct with what you say.

Some of my paperwork is headed with total trade services, but some of it is upto a year old as its taken a year to complete.
The money i still owe to them, they wanted it in a cheque payable to tempo energy which was quite recent. So i assume they are still trading.

As for the director i didnt get his name, but will let you know after he has been tomorrow.

Hi again, just a quick update on my progress.

The director seemed a decent guy and has only been with the company 2 months or so. He has sorted the issue with the oil i mentioned before and is going to arrange for someone to sort all the problems out. He did say to not pay them until it is all finished, so is all looking good.

Great news Chris,
Not that I'm a cynic, maybe worth keeping a record in meantime!
Excellent news at last!!

Yes Chris I am inclined to agree with D Speers on this, keep a record, to my knowledge the MD's of TTS are D Stevenson, M Bryant and J Gregory. A Devenney has been trying to sort all discrpancys to the best of my knowledge SO if any of the names above are familiar then you should tred carefully, also there is a Neil or Nigel from Carillion who was helping me with my complaint against the TTS lot! Believe nothing until you have it in front of you and you can't be let down!

Good advice Augustus and thank you for posting names, very helpful I'm sure. Just reminded me that I rang what was EAGA when I was making a complaint and got a VERY helpful case worker who promised the earth and delivered nothing!
Just tred with care and keep notes....could all be fine and "lessons may have been learned"
Hope springs eternal.....good luck

Just had this info from someone who couldn't get a Warm front grant."Doesn't matter what type of property, Warm Front surveyor will often say "some properties not suitable 4 grant" & offer pack of free light bulbs." Be prepared!

Hello all, what a long list, may I suggest you write to your MP and cc george.hollingbery.mp@parliament.uk

I finally got offered compensation after years of lies. The report after my complaint to the fitter, WarmFront (Carillion Energy), then DECC all where univestigated due to various reasons, I didnt get answers - the best one being my video footage which showed equipment being changed and the engineer admitting poor quality workmanship that could not be used in the complaint as the engineer didnt know he was being videoed and would not have admitted the problem if he had known!! However they still refuse to look at the original issues - the compensation is for them failing to investigate the complaint correctly, so I can take the money but they still will not investigate the original complaint.

hi i need HELP, we had a warmfront grant 10 mouths ago, the fitter put a new central heating systems in,the radiator in the kitchen where he as put the new one, it is not getting the kitchen warm,where he left the old one in, it is under the window, it is going damp. i phone warm front up they said it is not there problem, and all the money in the grant as gone. and we dont know who to phone if it breaks down egga put it in but it as been taken over with Carillion Energy services, i phone them up but they put you through to warm front so i dont know what to do now. thanks

Sorry to hear of yet more poor practice and sorry I am neither a plumber or a heating expert.....just yet another person who has been failed by Warmfront.
Find out who your MP (definately MP's responsibility to seek answers!!) is www.theyworkforyou.com and make an appointment for a "surgery meeting" with them or www.writetothem.com for an easy online letter. I suggest you copy the link to these experiences***, for MPs consideration and theres plenty more "Warmfront news" on this site www.whatdotheyknow.com.....MP should be able to help by asking the Minister Chris Huhne what is being done about it!!
***Link to cases: http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wa...
Good luck

Hi All, and huge congratulations to Dee on this blog. I applied for a new boiler under the scheme in June 2010 and had a survey done in August 2010. Eventually and after a lot of chasing I received a letter from Eaga saying my new boiler would be installed in April 2011. When the plumber turned up to do the installation he said my initial survey was wrong and as I had steel pipe in my heating system he could not fit a new boiler and left saying he would request a new survey.
Again after a lot of chasing a new survey was conducted in August 2011 and since then I have been chasing both Warmfront & Eaga/Carillion for a new installation date. Yesterday I was told by Warmfront that I would have to re-apply for the grant and as DLA is no longer on the benefit list, basically tough luck. The last person I spoke to at Warmfront was a lady called Nicola who was very abrupt and would not entertain the fact that the budget must have been allocated as there was an attempt to install a new boiler, which was obviously purchased for my job.
I would love to know what has happened the boiler and the budget!!! Another example of rip off Britain and another quango with more money than sence.

Thanks David,
The blog just grew out of exasperation and a need to try and share some lessons we have learnt. I still think you should have contact with MPs and ask them what has happened to your allocated grant and boiler! I agree your application should be taken from when you first applied....not under new rules: http://www.carillionenergy.com/products-...
Not sure what else to do except keep knocking on MPs door! www.theyworkforyou.com
Warmfront Direst.Gov info: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Director...

chris.huhne@decc.gsi.gov.uk is the Minister for Environment. (DECC)
1) Find your MP - www.theyworkforyou.com
2) Write to your MP or arrange a surgery meeting
3) Copy in Minister Chris Huhne on all correspondence

FYI: Chris Hunhe and my MP have just been sent a copy of this blog...pass it on!
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wa...

The section of the response containing the email address to contact with complaints reads:

"1. Please can you let me have the contact details of who to write to regarding complaints on the Warm Front scheme? All complaints about the Scheme should be dealt with in the first instance by eaga plc, the company who are contracted to deliver the Scheme on the Department's behalf and, as such, are responsible for the processing of Warm Front applications. They can be contacted using the details below:
Phone: 0800 316 2805
e-mail: customer.management@eaga.com

--

Richard - WhatDoTheyKnow.com volunteer

Thank you Richard for info on contact Warmfront complaints. Not sure whether Eaga or Carillion now but useful to have.
Thanks again

I hade an Ideal Isar boiler fitted by British Gas in Nov 2002.From about 2004 it has broken down at least once annually, sometimes for several weeks before properly functioning. Ive just been through another 10 days, with a similar number of engineer visits, to get heating and hot water. I now pay British Gas around £500 a year to keep my boiler going. Believe me this is probably cheaper than parts and labour cost. Has nobody thought about class action here. I cannot believe they are still being supplied as fit for purpose in 2010.

Thanks Sue,
I think the problem has been the changes Gov keep making...first Eaga then Carillion and different stages we are all at.
FYI I settled my insurance claim and had restoration work done. Info I sent Insurance company on Warmfront ensured I got my excess back and still held no claim discount! Trouble is we are all exhausted by it I suppose!
Thanks again
Dee

h
Hi i am going to send warm front and egga crilliam emails and letters, that what trading standers say to do, has anybody else do this yet thanks

Yes lots of phone calls and emails. Was told my complaint was upheld (which then told meant closed!)Told if still need to complain must open a new complaint! But I have sorted my complaints and have had insurance excess refunded. Just trying to find a way of getting help for others. Could be worth copying link to this too....it certainly shows failures!
Good luck

________________________________________
From: Bancroft Richard (Energy Efficiency & Consumers) [mailto:richard.bancroft@decc.gsi.gov.uk]
Sent: 24 November 2011 11:19

Subject: RE: WARMFRONT COMPLAINTS - a Freedom of Information request to Department of Energy and Climate Change - WhatDoTheyKnow

Dear D. Speers,

Thank you for your email of 8 November to the Secretary of State about the Warm Front Scheme. I have been asked to reply.

Unfortunately, it is not clear from your email what situation you require clarification on. The weblink you give seems to relate to a Freedom of Information request that was answered in 2009.

If you are asking where people should go to register complaints about Warm Front, the information is available on DECC’s website at http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/ab.... The Scheme Manager changed its name from Eaga to Carillion Energy Services following a takeover, but the regulations which govern the scheme have not changed.

If this is not the information you were looking for, please contact me again.

Yours sincerely,

Richard Bancroft
Richard Bancroft | DECC Correspondence Unit | Department of Energy and Climate Change | 3 Whitehall Place, London, SW1A 2AW | www.decc.gov.uk

Dear Richard Bancroft,
With thanks for your contact and whilst I agree the original FOI was replied to the subsequent annotations tell a very different story.
My apologies if my email was unclear but with so many complaints and little knowledge of current situations, as an outsider its very difficult to get a handle on it.
Thank you for clarification on current situation and I’ll post the complaints link online for others
Thanks again
Kind Regards
D.Speers

So here's a name and a link for current complaints...hope it helps.

It has been nearly two years since we were cold-called. We were told that we qualified for the full amount. A surveyor called in July 2010 and said that as well as a new boiler, we needed a new hot water tank plus new pump and controls.
He stated that they tried to retain everything to as was specification. After waiting months we received a call to say that the installers were ready and arrange a date, March 2011.
They turned up promptly and checked everything before starting. They took one look at the tank, said that it was a different size to the one they had in the van. After measuring both could see that the new one would'nt fit into our airing cupboard. They said it would have to be re-surveyed and left.
After not hearing anything for some weeks, rang Warmfront to be told that another company, Carillion, had taken over the scheme and I would have to reapply for the grant. Back to square one!
A surveyor called in June 2011 and I showed him the paperwork from the previous survey. He measured the tank, consulted his laptop and catalogues and said that they don't make that size anymore. He changed the order to a combi boiler, and said they would take the tank out.
In November 2011 we were contacted again, saying it needed to be re-surveyed. Another surveyor came,asked what our water pressure was like, good, and said they would fit a pressurised system. He also put down the rad in the bathroom needed changing. We were promised that we should'nt need any further visits and it should be installed in 4-6 weeks.
Just before Christmas we had another phone call saying that the surveyor needed to come back AGAIN. When I queried why, said it was something to do with the boiler.
He turned up on Tuesday and said that because our system is old, that Warmfront are saying they have got to install all new radiators and pipework. Because we have got solid floors, we would have to have pipework running up to the ceiling from each room and our loft conversion ripped up!
So from a humble boiler and tank change, we are now being told we need to have a complete new CH system.
Wonder if it is because they won't make money unless they get their hands on our full grant.

On and on it goes...sorry to read of your saga!
Maybe its worth contacting Complaints dept as above?

My dealings with Warm Front have been abysmal. Hours and hours of wasted time and I am doing this on behalf of a disabled ex Fireman. I have come to the conclusion that the only thing which will shift such organisations is legal action. Therefore, as a retired law lecturer, I would advise anyone who can obtain legal aid to see a solicitor and challenge this organisation with Judicial Review in the High Court and this is what I will be advising my applicant. M.Maxwell LL.B

Thank you Mary Maxwell and good advice....as usual we need to get case law established but can legal aid be accessed?

I tried to get Warm Front over 12 months ago and they wanted to put a full new heating system in my home too they wanted the full grant and a further £2,200 pounds so almost 6 grand.

From what I have seen on here the people who have had the work done with Warm Front are not lucky they now have a nightmare.

Hi all. I am still working on the warmfront scheme. The biggest problem with it is communication and organisasion.

My understanding and expeience of it is as follows

Carillion send a surveyor round to survey your job. I have been told that these surveyors are neither plumbers, nor electricians. This means they have little or no experience of the possible problems involved in fitting these heating systems.

The job is then put online where companies bid on it, with the lowest bid winning. If you only require a small amount of work then the chances are no one will want to do your job as its not worth the hassle of dealing with warmfront.

Once a company has won your job you will be given a date for the install. They will probably not arrive unitll after lunch. This is because they will have been in the wholesalers since around 7.30 am trying to get hold of missing parts from warmfronts order.

Sometimes these parts are missing because the surveyors have forgotton to order them and sometimes they need extra parts for some reason which is blatantly obvious from the survey but was missed by the surveyor.

Once they arrive they will often find that the surveyor did not understand the correct use of a tape measure and the boiler, radiator, cylinder, storage heater ect will not fit in the specified place, or is the wrong type. (We once showed up to do a gas installation where there was no gas at the property. Even the best plumbers will struggle to make a gas boiler work under these circumstances.)

If this is the case then the job must be passed back to warmfront(carillion) and the survey re-done, although sometimes they will just let us do it to save time.

It is very rare for these installs to go ahead exactly as the survey says. Often the customer has not been made aware of the amount of work involved. Ive lost count of the number of times a customer had no Idea id be taking their floors up to run cables in.

If a customer phones carillion to complain about any of this they will be told it is the fault and responsibility of the installer. We are not allowed to say anything negative about carillion to the customer.

A few years ago each job was allocated to a company, who then did the survey, ordered the parts and carried out the install. This meant that customers were only dealing with one company from start to finish and there were no arguments about responsibilty for diffent parts of the job with customers stuck in the middle.

Companies made sure the surveys were done correctly as it would cost them money if they were not. It also allowed companies to build a better relationship with their customers, often the same peson who did the survey would come back to do the job.

My old Company went bust a couple of years ago. warmfront was their biggest contract and they did very well on it for several years. It got very bad in the last year or two (once warmfront started douing the surveys)as they were paying tradesmen to stand around in merchants all day doing nothing. They have since restarted with their other contracts and will have nothing to do with warmfront work.

There have obviously been lots of problems caused by poor tradesmen involved in this scheme but from my experience 90% of the problems with this scheme are caused by bad surveys and poor organisation and communication.

As a last bit of food for thought, the same people who carry out these surveys then come round and check the work. If they cant survey correctly how can they be competent to check the work?

I once went to check a warmfront job for a freinds mother. the inspector had passed it after a minor issue. I found 23 loose wires. the timer was fixed to a plasterboard wall with one screw and came staright off with a little tug.

Get this scheme sorted out and get decent inspectors/surveyors on the job so that any poor tradesmen who are on the scheme get caught out before they give the rest of us a bad name.

Dont know what else to say Dave except I couldnt agree more!
Thanks for letting us know and please feel free to send this Link to your MP or new Minister at Dept of Energy and Climate Change! Chris Huhne no longer minister!

D.Speers. Legal aid and assistance is granted on assessment of income and capital. Solicitors used to give a free half hour interview and the Citizens Advice Bureau will usually have a solicitor who will give interview free of charge. Further, the Legal Services Commission will also advise on this. I hope this helps.

Warm Front Nightmare

I got a grant and Warm Front installed a boiler at my house.

They had used a Corgi registered contractor to have the boiler fitted. They in turn used an Electrical contractor for electrical work. I have both their installation records.

I then received Electrical certificate from NICEIC and Gas certificates from IDEAL + CORGI.

I’ve now found out that there is a serious electrical wiring fault on the boiler. I’ve now received from a major Utilities company whom I have a boiler maintenance contract a “Safety Advice/Warning Notice” stating that:

NOT TO CURRENT STANDARDS: INCORRECT WIRING
“FOUND INSULATION FAULT ON WIRING TO BOILER…i.e. NO PERMANENT LIVE – SAFETY CHECKS NOT COMPLETED”

I’ve sent / phoned WF but apart from “we’ll answer within 28 days” I’ve heard nothing.

I dont know what to advise,Madhu as like you I was failed too. Could the regulators have something to say on the subject?
May be worth contacting NICEIC, Ideal and Corgi (now Gas Safe?)or local press!

Thanks to all who have posted advice.Its certainly enlightening how many of us are seeming to have endless problems with Warmfront/Carillion etc!

Hi Madhu.What model is the boiler? If its one of the newer Ideals the most common fault is that many electricians fail to wire the pump into the boiler. This is not dangerous but it does need to be sorted. if it was an insulation fault bad enough to cause a problem then it should blow the fuse in the main switch for the boiler,(assuming the rest of it has been wired correctly).If there is no Permant Live then the boiler will still operate reasonably well but again it needs to be sorted. The firm who fitted it are responsible for it so if you call them they should come out as soon as possible to rectify any problems. If they dont come out in a reasonable amount of time then start a complaint with Warmfront (good luck there).

One thing to bear in mind is that most companies who do warmfront work have had to lay off most of their staff due to current lack of work. Since most work is planned a week or two in advance this means many are struggling to keep up with things like this as they just dont have the staff to deal with it any more.

One more piece of advice. Dont lose your temper with the girls in the office. I can imagine how frustrating it all is but they are the ones who will be trying to help you. They cant simply send someone round to deal withg it any more without cancelling someone else. This means it can often take a week or two to get out to you and it will most likely be done on a priority basis.

Many thanks D. Speers and Dave for your advice.

Could the regulators have something to say on the subject?
May be worth contacting NICEIC, Ideal and Corgi (now Gas Safe?)or local press!

As I said I’ve contacted WF/Carilion on 24th January 2012 and all I got was that they are basically saying they will try to check with the installers and they will come back to me within 28 working days of my complaint.

Hi Madhu.What model is the boiler?

The Boiler is: IDEAL Standard ICOS 12 HE
How are we as lay persons expected to know whether the wiring or installation is correct or not? From what I know the firm who WF had given the contract are either gone bust or are no longer have the contract to do so. So my question is who is now responsible to get this right?
I’ve been reading about Warmfront problems on the net especially on MSE. http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/show...

Warmfront will have to pass the job on to another installer, if your original one has gone bust. This is happening to a lot of firms who worked on warmfront as there is very little new work coming through. all you can really do is wait for someone else to be given the job or pay someone to come out and look at it.

Warmfront will have to pass the job on to another installer, if your original one has gone bust. This is happening to a lot of firms who worked on warmfront as there is very little new work coming through. all you can really do is wait for someone else to be given the job or pay someone to come out and look at it.

It is Carillion who are responsible as they run warmfront but ive heard they are laying off a lot of their own staff and rely heavily on other firms to do the actual work.

Lol. serves you all right you bunch of scroungers. you should all get jobs and pay for your own heating. I made a fortune working on warmfront a few years ago but got fed up of listening to people moaning. youre getting it for free arent you. Be a bit more gratefull that you dont have to pay your own way like those of us who work for a living.

Dave,
what you have written is an absolute disgrace. You seem to have missed the fact that many recipients of the Warm front scheme do actually work. We qualify due to being on a low wage, or are people with a disability doing their best to work. There are very few employers willing to give people with disabilities a job. I wonder how many peoples jobs you did half heartedly with your apalling attitude.It is not easy to get a central heating system at all and it is a pity a large organisation has abused the generous Govt funding to provide poor quality over priced boilers. You have no idea how wonderful it is to have central heating when you are older/ disabled/ disabled and working in acutely low paid jobs. It is a life line to keeping in better health and being able to be more productive hopefully.
You have insulted a swathe of people who do not deserve or need any more insults. It is devastating when the boiler breaks down 2 weeks outside of the warranty as so many do as it is back to square one, no heat and a defunct boiler as there is no money to repair it.
If a proper service was actually delivered during the 2 year free service, instead of a 3 minute visit to be told everything is fine then maybe the boilers might last a year longer.
You have a disgusting attitude and i hope you never do another contract ever again.
D.Speers thank you so much for your perseverence on this matter, it makes a big difference to a lot of people.

Sorry Dave, i mistakenly put your name not the culprits name which was the miserable, terribly uninformed, probable cowboy fitter named Johnny.
PS Johnny, the men that fitted my sub standard boiler were so very nice i wrote to Warm Front to thank the chaps that did my job. They really were gentlemen, it's a shame the boiler not the workmen, was rubbish.

Not even worth a full response! Get a life Johnny!

Thats alright. I spent a fair bit of my time putting right poor work done by some of the idiots on warmfront over the last few months, so im used to being blamed for other peoples mistakes.

One good thing about so many people being laid off is that most of the bad ones have gone, so the chances are if you have anything done now it should be done properly.

Id just like to say that were not all like that guy. Most of the lads i Know who work on warmfront just want to do a good job for a fair wage. And theres no better feeling than going home leaving a happy customer and a job well done.

Thanks Dave,
Appreciate your time and expertise in advising us of the current situation. We realise that its minority that always get majority bad name....in every aspect of life!
Good luck to all in accessing Warmfront/Carillion, ask questions and check all via MP too (majority MPs are also hard-working and dedicated to public service...but again minority are not!)
Thanks again Dave

Thank you Dave for your input.

Thank you D. Speers for your tireless effort on this thread.

I will update you all when I have any more news.

And an appreciation to K.Greenhalgh for putting Johnny in his place.

@Johnny,

I see, according to your own words: ‘I made a fortune working on warmfront‘.

I hope you enjoy the fruits of your fortune and never ever become neither old nor disabled. Or God forbid both!

After paying Income Tax and NI for 46 years I’ve had the misfortune of becoming both. I didn’t ask to be disabled or old.

I will gladly swap my disability with you in order for me to walk and work once again.

So what say you, Johnny?

Thank you all for your input, you are amazing!Hopefully Johnny knows what he wants to be when he grows up.