Use of illegal ammunition

David Hansen made this Freedom of Information request to Metropolitan Police Service (MPS)

The request was refused by Metropolitan Police Service (MPS).

From: David Hansen

22 September 2008

Dear Sir or Madam,

I refer you to the Firearms Act of 1968

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/A...

"5 Weapons subject to general prohibition [snip]

"[F11 (1A) Subject to section 5A of this Act, a person commits an
offence if, without the authority of the Secretary of State [F1 or
the Scottish Ministers (by virtue of provision made under section
63 of the Scotland Act 1998], he has in his possession, or
purchases or acquires, or sells or transfers— [snip]

"[F12 (f) any ammunition which incorporates a missile designed or
adapted to expand on impact;]"

Please provide a copy of "the authority of the Secretary of State"
for the purchase, acquiring and possession of such ammunition by
your organisation.

Yours faithfully,

David Hansen

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From: David Hansen

23 September 2008

Dear Sir or Madam,

When you have identified "the authority of the Secretary of State"
please contact me regarding the format it is to be provided in. If
you let me know whether the original format is electronic or paper
then I will let you know the most suitable format for you to supply
it in.

Yours sincerely,

David Hansen

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Metropolitan Police Service (MPS)

23 September 2008

Dear Mr Hansen

Freedom of Information Request Reference No: 2008090006146
I write in connection with your request for information which was received
by the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) on 22/09/2008. I note you seek
access to the following information:

* I refer you to the Firearms Act of 1968
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/A...

* "5 Weapons subject to general prohibition [snip]
* "[F11 (1A) Subject to section 5A of this Act, a person commits an
offence if, without the authority of the Secretary of State [F1 or the
Scottish Ministers (by virtue of provision made under section 63 of
the Scotland Act 1998], he has in his possession, or purchases or
acquires, or sells or transfers*** [snip]
* "[F12 (f) any ammunition which incorporates a missile designed or
adapted to expand on impact;]"
* Please provide a copy of "the authority of the Secretary of State" for
the purchase, acquiring and possession of such ammunition by your
organisation.
* When you have identified "the authority of the Secretary of State"
please contact me regarding the format it is to be provided in. If you
let me know whether the original format is electronic or paper then I
will let you know the most suitable format for you to supply it in.

Your request will now be considered in accordance with the Freedom of
Information Act 2000 (the Act). You will receive a response within
the statutory timescale of 20 working days as defined by the Act,
subject to the information not being exempt or containing a reference
to a third party. In some circumstances the MPS may be unable to
achieve this deadline. If this is likely you will be informed and
given a revised time-scale at the earliest opportunity.

Some requests may also require either full or partial transference to
another public authority in order to answer your query in the fullest
possible way. Again, you will be informed if this is the case.

Your attention is drawn to the attached sheet which details your right
of complaint.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your interest
in the MPS.

Should you have any further inquiries concerning this matter, please
write or contact Shannon Aldridge on telephone number 020 7161 3527
quoting the reference number above.

Yours sincerely

Shannon Aldridge
Support Officer
COMPLAINT RIGHTS

Are you unhappy with how your request has been handled or do you think
the decision is incorrect?

You have the right to require the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) to
review their decision.

Prior to lodging a formal complaint you are welcome and encouraged to
discuss the decision with the case officer that dealt with your
request.

Ask to have the decision looked at again ***

The quickest and easiest way to have the decision looked at again is
to telephone the case officer that is nominated at the end of your
decision letter.

That person will be able to discuss the decision, explain any issues
and assist with any problems.

Complaint

If you are dissatisfied with the handling procedures or the decision
of the MPS made under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the Act)
regarding access to information you can lodge a complaint with the MPS
to have the decision reviewed.

Complaints should be made in writing and addressed to:

FOI Complaint
Public Access Office
PO Box 57192
London
SW6 1SF

In all possible circumstances the MPS will aim to respond to your
complaint within three months.
The Information Commissioner

After lodging a complaint with the MPS if you are still dissatisfied
with the decision you may make application to the Information
Commissioner for a decision on whether the request for information has
been dealt with in accordance with the requirements of the Act.

For information on how to make application to the Information
Commissioner please visit their website at
www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk. Alternatively, phone or write to:

Information Commissioner's Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF
Phone: 01625 545 700

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Metropolitan Police Service (MPS)

20 October 2008

Dear Mr Hansen

Freedom of Information Request Reference No: 2008090006146

I write in connection with your request for information which was received
by the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) on 22/09/2008. I note you seek
access to the following information:

* I refer you to the Firearms Act of 1968
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/A...

* "5 Weapons subject to general prohibition [snip]
* "[F11 (1A) Subject to section 5A of this Act, a person commits an
offence if, without the authority of the Secretary of State [F1 or the
Scottish Ministers (by virtue of provision made under section 63 of
the Scotland Act 1998], he has in his possession, or purchases or
acquires, or sells or transfers*** [snip]
* "[F12 (f) any ammunition which incorporates a missile designed or
adapted to expand on impact;]
* " Please provide a copy of "the authority of the Secretary of State"
for the purchase, acquiring and possession of such ammunition by your
organisation.
* When you have identified "the authority of the Secretary of State"
please contact me regarding the format it is to be provided in. If you
let me know whether the original format is electronic or paper then I
will let you know the most suitable format for you to supply it in. .

DECISION

I have today decided that access cannot be provided to the information you
have requested as it is not held by the MPS.

The Metropolitan Police Service, as a Crown Servant, are exempt from the
need to hold a Section 5 Authority.

Section 54 of the Firearms Act 1968, provides an exemption for Crown
Servants. Please refer to the link provided.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/A...

COMPLAINT RIGHTS

Your attention is drawn to the attached sheet which details your right of
complaint.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your interest in
the MPS.

Should you have any further inquiries concerning this matter, please write
or contact Catherine Carrington on telephone number 020 7275 3525 quoting
the reference number above.

Yours sincerely

Catherine Carrington
Information Manager
Specialist Firearms Command (CO19)
020 7275 3525
COMPLAINT RIGHTS

Are you unhappy with how your request has been handled or do you think the
decision is incorrect?

You have the right to require the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) to
review their decision.

Prior to lodging a formal complaint you are welcome and encouraged to
discuss the decision with the case officer that dealt with your request.

Ask to have the decision looked at again ***

The quickest and easiest way to have the decision looked at again is to
telephone the case officer that is nominated at the end of your decision
letter.

That person will be able to discuss the decision, explain any issues and
assist with any problems.

Complaint

If you are dissatisfied with the handling procedures or the decision of
the MPS made under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the Act) regarding
access to information you can lodge a complaint with the MPS to have the
decision reviewed.

Complaints should be made in writing and addressed to:

FOI Complaint
Public Access Office
PO Box 57192
London
SW6 1TR

In all possible circumstances the MPS will aim to respond to your
complaint within three months.
The Information Commissioner

After lodging a complaint with the MPS if you are still dissatisfied with
the decision you may make application to the Information Commissioner for
a decision on whether the request for information has been dealt with in
accordance with the requirements of the Act.

For information on how to make application to the Information Commissioner
please visit their website at www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk.
Alternatively, phone or write to:

Information Commissioner's Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF
Phone: 01625 545 700

show quoted sections

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From: David Hansen

20 October 2008

Dear Catherine Carrington,

Thank you for your reply of 20/10/08.

I note that the Metropolitan Police Service claims to be above the
law.

Yours sincerely,

David Hansen

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William Thackeray left an annotation ( 4 March 2009)

"I note that the Metropolitan Police Service claims to be above the law."

They make no such claim.

The legislation they link to clearly shows that they, and certain other public servants, are exempt from this particular law.

See part 54.3.a of the document they link to.

Link to this

David Hansen left an annotation (10 March 2009)

If a law does not apply to everyone then some people are above it.

That is true even if the law itself states that some people are above it.

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Things to do with this request

Anyone:
Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) only: