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Veronica Chapman made this Freedom of Information request to Her Majesty’s Treasury
The request was partially successful.
From: Veronica Chapman
3 February 2009
Dear Sir or Madam,
Under the Freedom of Information Act I would like an answer to the
following question:
How, precisely, is money created?
For your information I have been given to understand that it is
created by means of Promissory Notes. In more detail, when a human
being signs a 'promise to pay' (known colloquially as an IOU),
which can stand until the end of time. And that the human being's
signature on that promise renders said promise lawful.
Can you please be so kind as to confirm or deny my understanding
and, if necessary, correct my understanding?
Thank you.
Yours faithfully,
Veronica Chapman
From: Enquiries, CEU
Her Majesty’s Treasury
10 February 2009
Dear Ms Chapman,
Thank you for your Freedom of Information request. I write to confirm receipt of your request and to let you know that it is receiving attention. If you have any enquiries regarding your request do not hesitate to contact us.
Darren Creamer
Correspondence and Enquiry Unit
show quoted sections
From: Veronica Chapman
10 February 2009
Dear Mr. Creamer,
Thank you for your acknowledgement.
Perhaps, when responding, you would be so kind as to take into
account the 1969 Landmark Decision that occurred in Minnesota,
which directly pertains to this subject & my question?
Here is a good summary of it:
http://www.rightsandwrong.com.au/html/la...
You will (I'm sure) note that the judgement in the Jerome Daly case
was that banks create money 'out of thin air'.
Yours sincerely, without ill-will, frivolity, or vexation,
Veronica: of the Chapman family
From: responses, FOI
Her Majesty’s Treasury
26 February 2009
Please find attached our response to your recent enquiry.
Paul Morran
Information Rights Unit
HM TREASURY
1 Horse Guards Road
London SW1A 2HQ
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/freedom_of...
show quoted sections
From: Veronica Chapman
26 February 2009
Dear Mr. Morran,
Thank you for your reply.
Unfortunately while, on the one hand, being a very courteous and
comprehensive response detailing what 'money' IS, and how it is
USED, it does not answer my central question, which was "How it is
CREATED?". (This, of course, implies "Who has the right to create
it?", "Why don't they exercise that right in order to prevent
Credit Crunches?", etc.)
Nevertheless your good self did include some very interesting
information, such as:
"Modern ‘currency’ is known as ‘fiat money’: it is artificially
created, has no value in itself and the basis for its use in
exchange is typically a government edict."
and
"The link with gold was fully broken in 1931 and since that time
there has been no asset into which holders have the right to
convert Bank of England notes."
I thank you for this information. Mass genocides, suicides (all
kinds of 'cides') have taken place on the basis of this 'thing'
that 'has no value', so perhaps you can understand my concerns with
this question?
However you are suggesting that such a question is not valid as an
FoI request. Consequently are you prepared to continue with this
discussion (you make that offer in your response), may I contact
you directly, or who - exactly (in your opinion) would be able to
answer my question?
As far as what 'money' IS, I suggest this definition:.
"Conveniently transferable Tokens of Credit"
A 'token' is something real (i.e. a coin, or banknote) than stands
in place of something that cannot represent itself i.e. something
imaginary, conceptual, e.g. 'credit'.
Perhaps you could confirm, deny or correct that definition (not,
necessarily, as an FoI request, but in the same way as you original
response, i.e. just out of courtesy)?
Yours sincerely with thanks,
Veronica: of the Chapman family
Veronica Chapman left an annotation (26 February 2009)
I wonder, actually, if the fact that 'money has no value' is printed on the front page of every book of Accounting & Economics?
If not, why not?
It seems to be quite an essential thing to know, in order to completely understand the rest of the book.
In other words: "This book is about nothing at all ... well, nothing of value"
Well, it seems important to me, anyway.
Veronica Chapman left an annotation (26 February 2009)
I mean, what's the fighting all about, then?
What is 'a Credit Crunch'?
What is 'a price' anyway?
What is 'interest aka usury', anyway?
What is 'a mortgage'? 'A bank loan'?
What is 'a bailout'?
What DO the numbers on a Computer Accounting Database actually mean?
What IS the fighting all about?
What is ANY of it about?
Are we all living in an ILLUSION? In a DREAM WORLD? (I've had better dreams than this dream world. Much better ones)
From: responses, FOI
Her Majesty’s Treasury
27 February 2009
Ms Chapman
I think my reply did touch on how money is created; I am sorry you did not feel it adequately addressed your concerns. I certainly have the impression that it said nothing you did not already know better!
I doubt that I am competent to engage in the dialogue you suggest, and you may appreciate that policy colleagues closer to the issues have a lot on their plates.
However, it would help us to help you if you could frame your concerns in terms of recorded information that you would expect us to hold and which would illuminate those issues.
Paul Morran
Information Rights Unit
HM TREASURY
1 Horse Guards Road
London SW1A 2HQ
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/freedom_of...
show quoted sections
From: Veronica Chapman
27 February 2009
Dear Mr. Morran,
Thank you for your latest response.
Yes, within your answer, you did allude to the fact that my
suggestion - contained within my original question - may have some
merit. Can we put it like that?
I understand your situation as you have explained. It. I assume
that the reason you have responded in the way you have up till now
is due to the fact that my question is neither unreasonable nor
frivolous. (You might have even considered it to be 'interesting'?)
Recorded information. OK, I can ask questions in that vein,. For
example: Authorisation must be necessary in order to create
'money', so I could ask for records of who authorised how much,
during such and such a period? And who or what was the recipient?
Would these be suitable FoI questions to pose to your organisation?
If that's the case, I'll consider this question answered, and start
up new ones requesting specific recorded information.
You must, surely, appreciate that while - as you suggest - I might
have some ideas in these matters, I do not pretend to know (and
could not be expected to know) the details of just, precisely,
which records you keep and for what purpose. So perhaps you could
help me in that respect? Such recordings as may apply to the
subject matter of this request? This request with which you are now
familiar?
Sincerely and thank you for your help,
Veronica: of the Chapman family
From: responses, FOI
Her Majesty’s Treasury
3 March 2009
Ms Chapman
My previous response referred to monetary policy as one of the Bank of England's core purposes.
In order to pursue your concerns, our advice would in fact be to refer to the articles the Bank of England publish which give more substantive coverage of this area. Their start page for the topic is here -
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetaryp...
You might be particularly interested in two articles which appeared in the Quarterly Bulletins 2007Q3. The first is "Proposals to modify the measurement of broad money in the United Kingdom: a user consultation" which as a section on the The concept of money. The second is entitled "Interpreting movements in broad money" and has a section on What is money and how it it created?. They can be accessed from the following web link -
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publicati...
If those references don't directly address your concerns, they might enable you to pursue an FOI request with the Bank of England. I should probably have made clear before now that the Bank is a distinct public authority under the Freedom of Information Act. The email address is [email address].
I hope that is helpful.
Paul Morran
Information Rights Unit
HM TREASURY
1 Horse Guards Road
London SW1A 2HQ
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/freedom_of...
show quoted sections
From: Veronica Chapman
3 March 2009
Dear Mr Morran,
Thank you for all your help. I will study the links you have
provided, however the first is actually entitled "Monetary Policy"
... and 'policy' is not, of course, 'law'. 'Policy' is not even
'Government edict'. (It's what they'd LIKE to do ... if they could
i.e. get away with it ... by means of the Mushroom Technique)
I thought I asked a simple question and, although you provided me
with some very useful information (and I cannot thank you enough
for that!), I can't see why a simple - even one word or sentence -
answer is not possible. I mean, it went through the phase of
'tally-sticks'. I mean how hard is it to describe a notched piece
of wood? Or a coloured bead? Or a feather? (Various historic
'currencies', as I'm sure you know. For example "How are feathers
created?". Answer "Birds grow them, and people pick them up")
And, furthermore, I think I offered you the answer within my
question, did I not? Consequently a simple "Yes" or "No" would
surely have sufficed.
However, you did not say "No". And time has, today, run out on my
question. That being the case I will close this FoI, trouble you no
more, and assume (I think now with lawful excuse) that the answer
was actually "Yes".
Yours sincerely,
Veronica Chapman
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Veronica Chapman left an annotation (26 February 2009)
But he did say (admit?) that 'money' has no value. And, of course, 'value' is a very subjective thing anyway. What may be valuable to me (and just what value I would place on that item) may be completely different to any value you may place on it. For example I might (do) buy lipsticks. Do you? No? Then the value of lipsticks to you is … what? Zilch, I suggest … unless you have occasion to buy one for your wife.
So what about other things like, Income Tax, Council Tax, TV Licences, Road Tax, and so on?
We are expected to 'pay something that has no value'?
Well, isn't that what Mr. Morran is saying?
In effect?
Well, I have lots of things that have very little, if any, value. Sheets of paper, for instance. They aren't printed like banknotes, in fact they are completely blank, but I could easily sign one. And then offer it to the Taxman.
Why not? That's what I'd like to know.
I mean, if a banknote has no value, then my A4 sheet of paper (which is larger) must be worth more in the amount of tree pulp alone. Surely?
Mustn't it?
Perhaps it is all the pretty printing on a banknote that makes it worth more than my A4 sheet + signature?
Or maybe because the banknote has a different signature? That of the Chief Cashier of the Bank of England?
Well, what happens when the Chief Cashier retires? When he can no longer offer his unfulfilled 'promise to pay'?
Me? I'm a human being. I've been that all my life. I'll be that all my life. My word (and my promises) are as good as anyone else's … aren't they?
Well, why not then?
Why is one human's word, and unfulfillable promise better than another's?
So my promise would stand as long as I lived … not just until I retired. That might be longer, or it might be shorter … but does that matter?
(Actually, being retired, it turns out to be longer in my, specific, case)
I'd like answers to these questions, because they have bothered me for a very large part of my life.
What IS money?
Conveniently transferable Tokens of Credit.
How is it created?
By means of a signature. A signature that authorises it.
The only remaining question is: Whose signature?
And I think you will find that, embedded in Paul's response, is the answer. The signature on an IOU. An IOU that has no value.
Well, I can write IOUs that have no value, as well as anyone. If not, I'd really like to know why, and I hope Paul will be kind enough to tell me.
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