SPENDING OF PUBLIC MONEY

Mr Hall made this Freedom of Information request to Conwy County Borough Council

The request was successful.

From: Mr Hall

17 July 2009

Dear Sir or Madam,

Please provide a copy of the Council's Policy, Welsh Assembly
Policy, Minuted Decision Process of the relevant Council
departments, or details of which ever other due process was used
whereby it was decided that Public Money could be spent on
enhancing the privately owned businesses of the Railway Station and
Taxi Ranks, but could not be spent on enhancing the privately owned
business of the Pier.

Also please supply copies of whatever consultation process
concluded that such spending of Public Money would not provide the
Railway Station / Taxi Rank businesses with any tangible gain, but
which would provide the Pier with a tangible gain, if it also had
Public Money spent on it in the same manner.

If no such consultation has taken place, then please state this is
the case for the record, and then explain what process the Council
has actually used in its determination of the effects of spending
Public Money on enhancing the Visual Aspect of the privately owned
businesses of the Railway Station, Taxi Ranks and Pier."

Yours faithfully,

Mr Hall

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From: Mr Hall

20 July 2009

Dear Sir or Madam,

Could you please confirm receipt of my FOI request

Yours faithfully,

Mr Hall

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From: Info Regs Unit
Conwy County Borough Council

21 July 2009

Dear Mr Hall

Thank you for your request for information. We will now consider your
request and it is our intention to have responded by 14/8/2009, if not
sooner.

It is noted again that your request contains speculative enquiries
seeking opinions based on assumptions. Please be advised again that
these elements of any enquiry are not subject to the provisions of the
FOIA, and they will not therefore be facilitated by this Unit. They will
however be referred to the Community Development Service.

Some of the information we hold may be regarded as exempt information,
i.e. it will not or cannot be given to you and you will be advised if
this is the case.

Once the information has been identified the Council may also ask that a
fee
be paid for processing and delivering the information to you. Details of
any
fee to be charged will be notified to you as soon as possible.

Uned Reoliadau Gwybodaeth/Information Regulations Unit
Cyngor Bwrdeistef Sirol CONWY County Borough Council
E-Bost / E-Mail: [Conwy Council request email]

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From: Info Regs Unit
Conwy County Borough Council

10 August 2009

Dear Mr Hall

Information sent to you on the 30/6/2009 dealt with the question areas
raised in your enquiry below, however for completeness the information
is repeated again below.

The identification of the Station Forecourt as a potential scheme
followed a community consultation event held in October 2005 and a
further event held in June 2006 where the opinions of various members of
the community of Colwyn Bay, including various organisations active in
the area were fed in to the development plan process. A copy of the
documentation from October 2005 can be found at the following link.

http://intranet/doc.asp?cat=4561&doc...

Copies of final report produced by Wavehill can be found on the Bay Life
Website at the following link.

www.colwynbaylife.co.uk

The Wavehill report demonstrates the scoring of the projects on pages 34
onwards.

The land outside the railway station in Colwyn Bay belongs to Network
Rail, leased to Arriva Wales with a local Taxi firm also having office
space on the land. The work to be done on the land is to improve the
visual aspect and Environment of the public space and not of any
commercial benefit to Network Rail or any of the other businesses.

In regards to the Pier, at the time of the development of the Bay Life
Development Plan the Welsh Development Agency was still active and
unfortunately their regulations only allowed funding of Environmental
Improvements and could not aid to individual businesses. At that time
assistance could be gained by the Wales Tourist Board. The Welsh
Assembly Government has now simplified the financial assistance to
businesses by putting everything into the single investment fund. The
Pier is an important land mark in Colwyn Bay and the Council would never
dismiss the idea of support, indeed the Council recently met with the
current owner and local Assembly Member to discuss potential ideas and
how they could be moved forward. Unfortunately though, the present
legal status prohibits the Pier owner making an application to the
single investment fund, and, until resolved leaves us in a rather
unsatisfactory position.

If for whatever reason you are unhappy with the response please contact
us direct by e-mail or by post addressed to Conwy County Borough
Council, Information Regulations Unit, Bodlondeb, Conwy, LL32 8DU.

Uned Reoliadau Gwybodaeth/Information Regulations Unit Cyngor Bwrdeistef
Sirol CONWY County Borough Council E-Bost / E-Mail:
[Conwy Council request email]

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Steve Hunt left an annotation (10 August 2009)

I love this quote from the council in the above response:

"...indeed the Council recently met with the current owner..."

What they do not say is that the current owner of Victoria pier (myself) was specifically NOT invited to attend said meeting, he was only there as he happened to find out about it from a document that came into his possession, and he decided to gate-crash said meeting...

It should also be noted for those who are interested, that a previous request from the owner of Victoria Pier to meet with the Council to discuss possible ways forward was considered "not worthy of any comment", to quote the then Leader of the Council, Mr Goronwy Edwards.

(All Council documents regarding the Pier fiasco are due to be published on the Pier website in the near future)

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Joe Mac left an annotation (12 August 2009)

I love the way the reality is glossed over a bit here.
I am interested in the pier and information I have obtained seems to suggest that the council openly informed the pier owner in advance of the date of the meeting when asked. Again the information suggests that the meeting was about the wider issues of regeneration funding and therefore not only was the pier not invited, but neither was any other business owner from the area invited.

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Steve Hunt left an annotation (12 August 2009)

Joe Mac, from all your annotations, it would appear you are nothing more than a Council Stooge... please send me a copy (or make it available for public scrutiny) of the information you have that shows that the Council invited me in advance to the above mentioned meeting, upon which I will gladly retract my comment... However, since I know no such information exists, I shall not hold my breath in anticipation.

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Joe Mac left an annotation (13 August 2009)

Its interesting to note how impulsively you feel obligated to make personal comments and assumptions. As a professional businessman I would not dream of casting such assertions and given that I live 116 miles from Conwy I'm not sure which council you are referring to. That aside if would care to read my comment again you might note I made no suggestion that you were invited to a meeting, merely that you were made aware by the council that a meeting was going to take place. Your inference is that you discovered this through some other source, which may or may not be the case, you have not said either way.

Could I enquire if the pier has a recent valuation figure that you might make available, or if you would have any objections if I arranged for a valuation, I could arrange for a drive-by valuation but these have limited use and in some ways can mislead as I am sure you are aware.

The pier no doubt has potential as part of the overall plan for the welsh coastline from Chester through to Ynys Mon, but any investment would have to be balanced against the potential for the return over the medium to long term. You would appear to have the passion, but not the business acumen required and I wonder whether investing in both you and the pier a risk worth taking, or alternatively just investing in the pier itself.

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Steve Hunt left an annotation (14 August 2009)

Joe Mac,

You stated, and I quote:

"...information I have obtained seems to suggest that the council openly informed the pier owner in advance of the date of the meeting when asked..."

I asked that you provide a copy of this information either directly to me, or make it available for scrutiny, perhaps by publishing it online for example, as it is directly contrary to the information I have, and what I know to be the case.

To clarify, I was NOT informed of said meeting via any normal and reasonable means. I discovered the meeting was to take place due to copies of "in-house" Council emails that came into my possession.

Not only was I not invited to the meeting, it was stated specifically that I was not to be invited to the meeting. The meeting was called to discuss the future of the pier - at least that it what it says on the Council's own documents. Obviously the meeting that ensued may have not been that which was originally intended had I not have gate-crashed it.

Hence I am very interested to see what evidence you have which shows I was informed of this meeting in advance by some normal and reasonable means.

"Secret Meetings" have been called by the Council in the past to discuss me and my business (the pier) - I have the evidence in the form of the Council's own documents to prove this. These documents will all eventually be published online - the only reason I have not done so so far is that they form part of a dossier of evidence of criminal activity which has been presented to CID and subsequently to the CPS. To publish it openly at this stage may prejudice future legal proceedings, as I am sure you understand.

If you are genuinely interested in the pier from a business point of view, by all means get in touch with me directly and I would be pleased to have a meeting etc. I have always been open to any ideas that would result in the pier being restored/developed quicker than I can achieve single-handedly (despite what the Council may try to mis-inform you), however to this day not one single person has had the guts to actually present any ideas to me.

At the above mentioned meeting, I again stated to the Council and Welsh Assembly member present that I would consider any proposals including public/private/developer partnerships, sale/leaseback arrangements, charitable trust status, even outright sale. I also wrote to the 2 most senior Council people involved in that meeting to confirm what we had discussed, again stating I would be pleased to hear any proposals - but those 2 senior Council employees haven't even had the decency to reply. Unsurprisingly, the Council still have not put one single suggestion forward to me, even in the most vague or basic of forms.

Regarding valuations: I did not bother to have one when I purchased the pier, since it meant absolutely nothing to me. There is nothing to compare a pier to, apart from another pier. There are so few of them in private freehold ownership, they rarely come to market, and in any case are all so different. To me it was worth the price I paid at the time. You may think that shows bad business acumen, and indeed you may be correct, but that is the honest answer to the question you asked.
I'm not sure what a drive-by valuation would achieve for you, but obviously that option is completely at your disposal.

You can send an email via this site I believe, or directly to: steve (at) victoriapier (dot) com

I look forward to hearing from you.

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Joe Mac left an annotation (27 August 2009)

Sorry for not getting back, tied up with some work on the south coast. Not good Steve, to be honest, was over at Caernarfon dock development with a surveyor friend from Cyrill Sweett Ltd and paid a fly by visit on the way back. Surprised the to find everything locked up but that aside not sure I would have or be able to raise the kind of money required, so good luck and I wish you every success. I have shared the plight of the pier with some who might be interested and who knows maybe they will get in touch. Cheers.

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