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ISSUE OF POLICE HELICOPTER FLIGHTS AT NIGHT OVER SOUTH HAMPSTEAD LONDON NW6 (LB CAMDEN)
Charm Ranchev made this Freedom of Information request to Metropolitan Police Service (MPS)
Waiting for an internal review by Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) of their handling of this request.
From: Charm Ranchev
31 May 2009
Dear Sir or Madam,
FOR THE PAST SIX YEARS - I WOULD LIKE A LIST OF ALL HELICOPTER
FLIGHTS DURING THE NIGHT TIME AND EARLY MORNING (BETWEEN 11PM AND
8AM) OVER OR NEAR MY ROAD (CANFIELD GARDENS) AND SOUTH HAMPSTEAD
NW6, WITH THEIR PURPOSE: ARE THEY 1/ROUTINE OR 2/RELATED TO ANY
SPECIFIC CRIME (I DO NOT NEED ANY MORE DETAILS THAN THAT).
There is an issue of helicopter noise at night which I have
experienced in recent years. It is not every night but often enough
to be a nuisance, at least every week or two and sometimes
consecutive nights. How can people sleep with this going on?
Last night I was woken about 2am by a helicopter which kept coming
back every few minutes for the next half hour, then another (or the
same helicopter) about 3.00am and again about 6am. Several times in
one night has really upset me.
My particular worry is helicopters that regularly fly over the area
of Swiss Cottage and South Hampstead at night - my road is Canfield
Gardens London NW6.
It is not as if Canfield Gardens and its surroundings is a high
crime area, actually it is not at all.
The flights occur way too often, but I could appreciate that once
in a while there could be a police helicopter flight if there was
an ACTUAL crime and therefore a good reason for a helicopter flying
at night.
I do not believe it is acceptable to schedule routine flights at
night without there having been any crime committed.The streets
where I live are otherwise quiet at night if not for the helicopter
noise which is the only crime.
I have lodged complaints with the Department for Transport, the
PNLD and with the London Borough of Camden, also I have written
letters to two local papers and to the Mayor of London.
All the helicopter companies that I contacted said it was the
police helicopters making all the noise.
Yours faithfully,
Ms Charm Ranchev
Metropolitan Police Service (MPS)
1 June 2009
Dear Ms Ranchev
Freedom of Information Request Reference No: 2009060000208
I write in connection with your request for information which was received
by the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) on 01/06/2009. I note you seek
access to the following information:
* "FOR THE PAST SIX YEARS - I WOULD LIKE A LIST OF ALL HELICOPTER
FLIGHTS DURING THE NIGHT TIME AND EARLY MORNING (BETWEEN 11PM AND 8AM)
OVER OR NEAR MY ROAD (CANFIELD GARDENS) AND SOUTH HAMPSTEAD NW6, WITH
THEIR PURPOSE: ARE THEY 1/ROUTINE OR 2/RELATED TO ANY SPECIFIC CRIME
(I DO NOT NEED ANY MORE DETAILS THAN THAT). "
* "There is an issue of helicopter noise at night which I have
experienced in recent years. It is not every night but often enough to
be a nuisance, at least every week or two and sometimes consecutive
nights. How can people sleep with this going on? Last night I was
woken about 2am by a helicopter which kept coming back every few
minutes for the next half hour, then another (or the same helicopter)
about 3.00am and again about 6am. Several times in one night has
really upset me."
* " My particular worry is helicopters that regularly fly over the area
of Swiss Cottage and South Hampstead at night - my road is Canfield
Gardens London NW6. It is not as if Canfield Gardens and its
surroundings is a high crime area, actually it is not at all. "
* "The flights occur way too often, but I could appreciate that once in
a while there could be a police helicopter flight if there was an
ACTUAL crime and therefore a good reason for a helicopter flying at
night. I do not believe it is acceptable to schedule routine flights
at night without there having been any crime committed.The streets
where I live are otherwise quiet at night if not for the helicopter
noise which is the only crime."
* " I have lodged complaints with the Department for Transport, the PNLD
and with the London Borough of Camden, also I have written letters to
two local papers and to the Mayor of London. All the helicopter
companies that I contacted said it was the police helicopters making
all the noise."
Your request will now be considered in accordance with the Freedom of
Information Act 2000 (the Act). You will receive a response within the
statutory timescale of 20 working days as defined by the Act, subject to
the information not being exempt or containing a reference to a third
party. In some circumstances the MPS may be unable to achieve this
deadline. If this is likely you will be informed and given a revised
time-scale at the earliest opportunity.
Some requests may also require either full or partial transference to
another public authority in order to answer your query in the fullest
possible way. Again, you will be informed if this is the case.
COMPLAINT RIGHTS
Your attention is drawn to the attached sheet, which details your right of
complaint.
Should you have any further enquiries concerning this matter, please
contact me by email, quoting the reference number above.
Yours sincerely
Katie London
Support Officer
COMPLAINT RIGHTS
Are you unhappy with how your request has been handled or do you think the
decision is incorrect?
You have the right to require the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) to
review their decision.
Prior to lodging a formal complaint you are welcome and encouraged to
discuss the decision with the case officer that dealt with your request.
Ask to have the decision looked at again ***
The quickest and easiest way to have the decision looked at again is to
telephone the case officer that is nominated at the end of your decision
letter.
That person will be able to discuss the decision, explain any issues and
assist with any problems.
Complaint
If you are dissatisfied with the handling procedures or the decision of
the MPS made under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the Act) regarding
access to information you can lodge a complaint with the MPS to have the
decision reviewed.
Complaints should be made in writing and addressed to:
FOI Complaint
Public Access Office
PO Box 57192
London
SW6 1SF
In all possible circumstances the MPS will aim to respond to your
complaint within 40 working days.
The Information Commissioner
After lodging a complaint with the MPS if you are still dissatisfied with
the decision you may make application to the Information Commissioner for
a decision on whether the request for information has been dealt with in
accordance with the requirements of the Act.
For information on how to make application to the Information Commissioner
please visit their website at www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk.
Alternatively, phone or write to:
Information Commissioner's Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF
Phone: 01625 545 700
show quoted sections
Metropolitan Police Service (MPS)
29 June 2009
Dear Mr Ranchev
Freedom of Information Request Reference No: 2009060000208
I write in connection with your request for information which was
received by the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) on 01/06/2009. I note
you seek access to the following information:
* FOR THE PAST SIX YEARS - I WOULD LIKE A LIST OF ALL HELICOPTER FLIGHTS
DURING THE NIGHT TIME AND EARLY MORNING (BETWEEN 11PM AND 8AM) OVER OR
NEAR MY ROAD (CANFIELD GARDENS) AND SOUTH HAMPSTEAD NW6, WITH THEIR
PURPOSE: ARE THEY 1/ROUTINE OR 2/RELATED TO ANY SPECIFIC CRIME (I DO
NOT NEED ANY MORE DETAILS THAN THAT). There is an issue of helicopter
noise at night which I have experienced in recent years. It is not
every night but often enough to be a nuisance, at least every week or
two and sometimes consecutive nights. How can people sleep with this
going on? Last night I was woken about 2am by a helicopter which kept
coming back every few minutes for the next half hour, then another (or
the same helicopter) about 3.00am and again about 6am. Several times
in one night has really upset me. My particular worry is helicopters
that regularly fly over the area of Swiss Cottage and South Hampstead
at night - my road is Canfield Gardens London NW6. It is not as if
Canfield Gardens and its surroundings is a high crime area, actually
it is not at all. The flights occur way too often, but I could
appreciate that once in a while there could be a police helicopter
flight if there was an ACTUAL crime and therefore a good reason for
a helicopter flying at night. I do not believe it is acceptable to
schedule routine flights at night without there having been any crime
committed.The streets where I live are otherwise quiet at night if not
for the helicopter noise which is the only crime. I have lodged
complaints with the Department for Transport, the PNLD and with the
London Borough of Camden, also I have written letters to two local
papers and to the Mayor of London. All the helicopter companies that I
contacted said it was the police helicopters making all the noise..
Although you have made this request under the Freedom of Information Act,
I should note that it is likely that the information you have requested
would fall within the definition of 'environmental information' given in
the Environmental Information Regulations 2004, and that your request
could have been processed under that legislation, rather than the Freedom
of Information Act. The Appendix at the end of this response contains
further discussion of this point.
I am sorry to inform you that it will not be possible to respond fully to
your request for data for the previous six years within the cost
threshold. This is because we estimate that the cost of complying with
this request in full would exceed the appropriate limit which has been
specified in The Freedom of Information and Data Protection (Appropriate
Limit and Fees) Regulations 2004. For agencies outside central Government,
this is set at **450.00. This represents the estimated cost of one person
spending 18 hours [at a rate of **25 per hour] in determining whether the
MPS holds the information, and locating, retrieving and extracting the
information.
Under the section 16 duty to assist I am obliged to advise you of how your
request may be brought within the cost threshold, and to offer further
assistance. I have therefore identified, and been able to retrieve the
majority of the requested information within the cost threshold. This
information is contained in the attachment included in this response.
Please find below a breakdown to show how the cost threshold has been
reached, and details of what information has been provided.
The information you have requested forms part of the Flight Log for the
whole of the MPS, and is contained in both paper and electronic records.
From April 2006 the Flight Log has been kept electronically; however,
prior to this, only paper records are held. To identify and retrieve the
information you have requested for the period prior to April 2006, we
would first need to be able to identify which records contain relevant
information. As the paper records contain details of all flights within
the Metropolitan area, and are not divided by borough, each record would
have to be viewed manually to determine if it contained the requested
information. Over 2000 individual records are held for the period between
2003 and April 2006, and it is estimated that it would take a minimum of 5
minutes to review each record. In total, this would take over 150 hours to
complete. The amount of time needed to search the later electronic records
would then be in addition to this.
Therefore, in accordance with the Freedom of Information Act 2000, this
letter therefore acts as a Refusal Notice for the full 6 years of data:
Section 17(5) of the Act provides:
(5) A public authority which, in relation to any request for information,
is relying on a claim that section 12 or 14 applies must, within the time
for complying with section 1(1), give the applicant a notice stating that
fact.
Section 12 of the Act provides:
(1) Section 1(1) does not oblige a public authority to comply with a
request for information if the authority estimates that the cost of
complying with the request would exceed the appropriate limit.
However, records for the period of time from April 2006 are held
electronically, and are searchable. In order to assist you, I am able to
provide you with information for the period of time from April 2006 to the
present within the cost threshold. This information is contained in the
attached sheet. In response to your question regarding whether flights are
'routine' or related to specific crimes, I have also disclosed to you the
Night Flights Standard Operating Procedure Policy. Night flights are
undertaken only in response to specific requests for assistance, and the
Policy gives details of this 'tasking' process.
I hope you will find this information useful. Please contact me 0207 230
3153 if you wish to discuss the request further.
Appendix
I should note that it is likely that the information you have requested
would fall within the definition of 'environmental information' given in
the Environmental Information Regulations 2004, and that your request
could have been processed under that legislation, rather than the Freedom
of Information Act. However, the decision in this case would have been the
same. The exception (similar to exemptions in FOIA) in Regulation 12(4)(b)
provides that "a public authority may refuse to disclose information to
the extent that the request for information is manifestly unreasonable".
This definition includes instances where it would be unreasonably costly
for the public authority to respond to the request. As with FOIA, the
appropriate limit is that stated in The Freedom of Information and Data
Protection (Appropriate Limit and Fees) Regulations 2004, which is **450
or 18 hours work at **25 an hour.
Regulation 12(4)(b) requires a public interest test to determine whether
this exception should be maintained, or the information disclosed. In this
case, the public interest in this case would balance the benefits of
promoting accountability and transparency that disclosure would bring,
against the disproportionate amount of resources that the MPS would need
to divert from its everyday core functions in order to retrieve the
requested information for the full six years. In this instance, the time
that would be needed to retrieve all the relevant information would exceed
150 hours, and the public interest favours maintaining the exception. The
request for the full 6 years data would be refused as being 'manifestly
unreasonable'. In effect, this is the same response as the one given under
FOIA above.
However EIR, like FOIA, also requires the public authority to assist the
applicant in narrowing the request to make it 'reasonable'. Again, the
most appropriate way to achieve this would be to focus the request on the
period of time for which searchable electronic records are available - the
period from April 2006 onwards. This again mirrors the response you have
received under FOIA.
COMPLAINT RIGHTS
Your attention is drawn to the attached sheet which details your right of
complaint.
Should you have any further enquiries concerning this matter, please write
or contact Alex Norrie on telephone number 0207 230 3153 quoting the
reference number above.
Yours sincerely
Alex Norrie
Information Manager
COMPLAINT RIGHTS
Are you unhappy with how your request has been handled or do you think the
decision is incorrect?
You have the right to require the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) to
review their decision.
Prior to lodging a formal complaint you are welcome and encouraged to
discuss the decision with the case officer that dealt with your request.
Ask to have the decision looked at again ***
The quickest and easiest way to have the decision looked at again is to
telephone the case officer that is nominated at the end of your decision
letter.
That person will be able to discuss the decision, explain any issues and
assist with any problems.
Complaint
If you are dissatisfied with the handling procedures or the decision of
the MPS made under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the Act) regarding
access to information you can lodge a complaint with the MPS to have the
decision reviewed.
Complaints should be made in writing and addressed to:
FOI Complaint
Public Access Office
PO Box 57192
London
SW6 1TR
In all possible circumstances the MPS will aim to respond to your
complaint within 40 working days.
The Information Commissioner
After lodging a complaint with the MPS if you are still dissatisfied with
the decision you may make application to the Information Commissioner for
a decision on whether the request for information has been dealt with in
accordance with the requirements of the Act.
For information on how to make application to the Information Commissioner
please visit their website at www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk.
Alternatively, phone or write to:
Information Commissioner's Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF
Phone: 01625 545 700
show quoted sections
Charm Ranchev left an annotation (15 October 2009)
Well, I am the one who sent this information request. I notice that others sending similar requests about numbers of helicopters flying at night DID get replies to theirs, with a chart giving the number of flights. Obviously the person who dealt with my request could not be bothered.
I have had at least four helicopters fly directly over my house only last night. The noise is tremendous, enough to wake you each time - several times in the same night is truly beyond being bearable and it happens more than once a week!!! I can't live this, am I a flight path?
I checked all the helicopter companies and heliports everywhere, they say it is only the police who fly at that time of night.
The police must be having fun with their 'new toys' because a few years ago we did not have these helicopters thundering through our night skies.
CR
Jason H left an annotation (15 October 2009)
I agree it is ridiculous the amount of helicopter flights in this area at night! the thing that bothers me is why are they hovering for so long in the same location? I have a feeling that its not the police that are doing this as according to their flight logs they only record that the helicopters are in the air for short periods of time, so who is behind this? I have a suspicion that you are being fobbed off on this one...
Liz R (Account suspended) left an annotation ( 4 February 2010)
We've had similar in RBKC (Kensington and Chelsea) but they only admit to ten complaints in a many years- not true from having spoken to neighbours
Peter Boon left an annotation (10 April 2010)
I live in the W2 area (Chepstow Road) and also being kept awake at night. The first part of 2010 was fairly light on chopper activity but now the weather is improving the annoying choppers have restarted. I wonder if those pilots realise the annoyance the are creating.
Peter B
Joyce McLean left an annotation (12 June 2010)
I am in NW5 and am experiencing the same problems re: loud helicopter noise. I complained to the Met and received a lengthy response, finally concluding that the police helicopter activity was in the interest of public safety. However,the incidents appear to be increasing in frequency and I have advised them that I wish to take my complaint further.
marycj left an annotation (14 June 2010)
I am in NW6 and am experiencing the same issue. It is now 2:20 am and a helicopter has been hovering overhead for quite a while. It is tremendously loud and sounds like a war zone. This has been continuing sporadically all night!
Charm Ranchev left an annotation (15 June 2010)
Yes, I was also aware of a HELL-icopter hovering for ages over NW6 I think around 2.30am. That one was not directly above me, though the noise was still really tremendous. First there was one at 11.30pm, another at 2am, then the one that hovered about 2.30am. A war zone is a very good description of the sound. You can start to hear the buzz even when it is still far away.
The problem is getting worse. When I first noticed the helicopters about five or six years ago, it was not every night, or every week, or consecutive nights, or several times in the same night - but now it is!
Several times in one night is becoming routine, sometimes I wonder if it is worth falling asleep. I feel so depressed about it, I am also very, very angry about it. It has ruined my quality of life, it cannot continue, and I can't go on with it. I used to love the dead of night.
Residents have to get together somehow, because nobody listens to a single voice like mine, but clearly I am not the only one suffering.
Charm Ranchev left an annotation (15 June 2010)
If the Met claim that the night flights have improved public safety, they should be able to PROVE it if it is true, and show that the statistics are worth all the expense and the disturbance. I do not think we are any safer now than before we had these choppers at night.
A flight very occasionally at night - if absolutely necessary for a huge crime - would be acceptable. It should be the exception rather than the rule, and only for something really major, not general 'public safety' and making regular routine flights just for the 'police presence'.
They are just boys and their toys, not giving a toss how it affects others.
From: Charm Ranchev
15 June 2010
Dear Metropolitan Police Service (MPS),
Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of
Information reviews.
I am writing to request an internal review of Metropolitan Police
Service (MPS)'s handling of my FOI request 'ISSUE OF POLICE
HELICOPTER FLIGHTS AT NIGHT OVER SOUTH HAMPSTEAD LONDON NW6 (LB
CAMDEN)'.
Others living in different areas had the exact same query as me,
and they DID get a response. (By coincidence, the wording of those
other requests was the same as mine - asking for flights for past
five or six years, though I only read them afterwards. This only
shows that people like me are aware when the problem first started,
and that we concur on this information.)
A flight very occasionally at night - if absolutely necessary for a
huge crime - would be acceptable. It should be the exception rather
than the rule, and only for something really major, not general
'public safety' and making regular routine flights just for the
'police presence'.
I WOULD LIKE ACTUAL PROOF AND STATISTICS - if the Met claim that
these night flights have improved public safety, please convince me
that all the public expense and disturbance have made a really
significant difference... Because I do not think we are any safer
now than before we had these choppers at night.
A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is
available on the Internet at this address:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/is...
Yours faithfully,
Charm Ranchev
Metropolitan Police Service (MPS)
17 June 2010
Dear Sir/Madam
Freedom of Information Request Reference No: 2010060003131
I write in connection with your letter requesting that the Metropolitan
Police Service (MPS) review its response to your request for information
relating to:
* FOIA complaint on existing case - 2009060000208.
I am writing to request an internal review of Metropolitan Police Service
(MPS)'s handling of my FOI request 'ISSUE OF POLICE HELICOPTER FLIGHTS AT
NIGHT OVER SOUTH HAMPSTEAD LONDON NW6 (LB CAMDEN)'.
Others living in different areas had the exact same query as me, and they
DID get a response. (By coincidence, the wording of those other requests
was the same as mine - asking for flights for past five or six years,
though I only read them afterwards. This only shows that people like me
are aware when the problem first started, and that we concur on this
information.)
A flight very occasionally at night - if absolutely necessary for a huge
crime - would be acceptable. It should be the exception rather than the
rule, and only for something really major, not general 'public safety' and
making regular routine flights just for the 'police presence'.
I WOULD LIKE ACTUAL PROOF AND STATISTICS - if the Met claim that these
night flights have improved public safety, please convince me that all
the public expense and disturbance have made a really significant
difference... Because I do not think we are any safer now than before we
had these choppers at night. A full history of my FOI request and all
correspondence is available on the Internet at this address:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/is... .
The review will be conducted in accordance to the MPS's complaints
procedure. The MPS endeavour to respond to your complaint by 13th July
2010.
Should you have any further inquiries concerning this matter, please
contact Julia Wharton on telephone number 0207 161 3657 or at the address
at the top of the letter quoting the reference number above.
Thank you for your interest in the MPS.
Yours sincerely
Julia Wharton
FOI Coordinator & Review Officer
COMPLAINT RIGHTS
Are you unhappy with how your request has been handled or do you think the
decision is incorrect?
You have the right to require the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) to
review their decision.
Prior to lodging a formal complaint you are welcome and encouraged to
discuss the decision with the case officer that dealt with your request.
Ask to have the decision looked at again -
The quickest and easiest way to have the decision looked at again is to
telephone the case officer that is nominated at the end of your decision
letter.
That person will be able to discuss the decision, explain any issues and
assist with any problems.
Complaint
If you are dissatisfied with the handling procedures or the decision of
the MPS made under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the Act) regarding
access to information you can lodge a complaint with the MPS to have the
decision reviewed.
Complaints should be made in writing, within forty (40) working days from
the date of the refusal notice, and addressed to:
FOI Complaint
Public Access Office
PO Box 57192
London
SW6 1SF
[email address]
In all possible circumstances the MPS will aim to respond to your
complaint within 20 working days.
The Information Commissioner
After lodging a complaint with the MPS if you are still dissatisfied with
the decision you may make application to the Information Commissioner for
a decision on whether the request for information has been dealt with in
accordance with the requirements of the Act.
For information on how to make application to the Information Commissioner
please visit their website at www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk.
Alternatively, phone or write to:
Information Commissioner's Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF
Phone: 01625 545 700
show quoted sections
Metropolitan Police Service (MPS)
17 June 2010
Dear Sir / Madam
Freedom of Information Request Reference No: 2010060003131
I write in connection with your email sent to us on15th June 2010
requesting that the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) review its response
dated 29th June 2009 to your request for information relating to:
* FOIA complaint on existing case - 2009060000208.
Having now looked at the original response sent to you on 29th June 2009,
I note that your request was refused under the exemption of Section 12
which means that they could not provide you with the information because
in order to do so it would take more than 18 hours to locate and retrieve
information that was relevant to your questions. The Information Manager
gave you advice on how to redefine your request so that it could be
answered.
However, Ms Norrie did disclose to you details of the electronic version
of flight logs from 1 April 2006 and 26 June 2009. She also provided you
with a copy of the Night Flights Standard Operating Procedure Policy.
Ms Norrie explained that prior to 2006 the flight logs were not kept
electronically therefore in order to provide you with those details would
exceed the cost threshold because a search would be needed of each record
(giving an example of 2000 records between 2003 and 2006).
Please can you clarify which part of the original response you disagree
with and want me to review.
If I do not receive a reply within three months of this email I will
presume you no longer wish to proceed with this review and will close the
file.
Yours sincerely
Julia Wharton
FOI Coordinator & Review Officer
COMPLAINT RIGHTS
Are you unhappy with how your request has been handled or do you think the
decision is incorrect?
You have the right to require the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) to
review their decision.
Prior to lodging a formal complaint you are welcome and encouraged to
discuss the decision with the case officer that dealt with your request.
Ask to have the decision looked at again -
The quickest and easiest way to have the decision looked at again is to
telephone the case officer that is nominated at the end of your decision
letter.
That person will be able to discuss the decision, explain any issues and
assist with any problems.
Complaint
If you are dissatisfied with the handling procedures or the decision of
the MPS made under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the Act) regarding
access to information you can lodge a complaint with the MPS to have the
decision reviewed.
Complaints should be made in writing, within forty (40) working days from
the date of the refusal notice, and addressed to:
FOI Complaint
Public Access Office
PO Box 57192
London
SW6 1SF
[email address]
In all possible circumstances the MPS will aim to respond to your
complaint within 20 working days.
The Information Commissioner
After lodging a complaint with the MPS if you are still dissatisfied with
the decision you may make application to the Information Commissioner for
a decision on whether the request for information has been dealt with in
accordance with the requirements of the Act.
For information on how to make application to the Information Commissioner
please visit their website at www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk.
Alternatively, phone or write to:
Information Commissioner's Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF
Phone: 01625 545 700
show quoted sections
Helen Rose left an annotation (28 June 2010)
Loud helicopter flight over NW5 last night. This happens a few times a week.
From: Charm Ranchev
30 June 2010
Dear Metropolitan Police Service (MPS),
In that case, PLEASE DO 18 HOURS WORK and show whatever results you
can manage to provide in that time constraint, thank you.
INFORMATION REQUIRED - For each night between 11pm and 7am over
London NW6 and particularly South Hampstead:
I want to know about the number of helipcopter passes and which
helicopters were circling over my area - please explain if it is
one machine returning 10 times, or 10 machines making one flight in
the same night?
How many night time helicopter pilots are employed in these flights
every night?
State a specific reason for the circling over and over in those
instances when this happened and state typical reasons for this
happening, even when no sirens are heard and streets are otherwise
quiet?
Which of the flights were routine pass overs to establish regular
police presence without any specific crime? How many times are
week/night are routine flights not assigned to any specific crime
scheduled for my area?
This information might help explain why there has been a helicopter
every night the past few nights around 2am, and why the one a few
nights ago circled for a whole hour between about 1am - 2am? But it
is not just 2am, as we all know, it is all hours of the night and
early morning and several times a night, and I am only giving that
one example.
Yours faithfully,
Charm Ranchev
Metropolitan Police Service (MPS)
30 June 2010
Dear Ms Ranchev
Freedom of Information Request Reference No: 2010060003131
I write in connection with your letter requesting that the Metropolitan
Police Service (MPS) review its response to your request for information
relating to:
* FOIA complaint on existing case - 2009060000208.
Thank you for your email dated 30th June 2010. The purpose of requesting a
review is if you do not agree with the previous response that was sent to
you. In the previous response you asked for the following information:
FOR THE PAST SIX YEARS - I WOULD LIKE A LIST OF ALL HELICOPTER FLIGHTS
DURING THE NIGHT TIME AND EARLY MORNING (BETWEEN 11PM AND 8AM) OVER OR
NEAR MY ROAD (CANFIELD GARDENS) AND SOUTH HAMPSTEAD NW6, WITH THEIR
PURPOSE: ARE THEY 1/ROUTINE OR 2/RELATED TO ANY SPECIFIC CRIME (I DO NOT
NEED ANY MORE DETAILS THAN THAT).
Ms Norrie disclosed to you details of the electronic version of flight
logs from 1 April 2006 and 26 June 2009. She also provided you with a copy
of the Night Flights Standard Operating Procedure Policy.
In your email sent to me on 30th June you state:
In that case, PLEASE DO 18 HOURS WORK and show whatever results you can
manage to provide in that time constraint, thank you.
I will now conduct the review and consider if the cost refusal you were
issued in the original response was correct. In the review I will also be
taking into account the amount of time it took to retrieve the information
that has already been disclosed to you as part of that cost refusal.
For your information, any other questions that ask for different
information than what is listed above should be asked for in a new request
submitted to us and not part of this review.
Should you have any further inquiries concerning this matter, please
contact Julia Wharton on telephone number 0207 161 3657 or at the address
at the top of the letter quoting the reference number above.
Thank you for your interest in the MPS.
Yours sincerely
Julia Wharton
FOI Coordinator & Review Officer
COMPLAINT RIGHTS
Are you unhappy with how your request has been handled or do you think the
decision is incorrect?
You have the right to require the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) to
review their decision.
Prior to lodging a formal complaint you are welcome and encouraged to
discuss the decision with the case officer that dealt with your request.
Ask to have the decision looked at again -
The quickest and easiest way to have the decision looked at again is to
telephone the case officer that is nominated at the end of your decision
letter.
That person will be able to discuss the decision, explain any issues and
assist with any problems.
Complaint
If you are dissatisfied with the handling procedures or the decision of
the MPS made under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the Act) regarding
access to information you can lodge a complaint with the MPS to have the
decision reviewed.
Complaints should be made in writing, within forty (40) working days from
the date of the refusal notice, and addressed to:
FOI Complaint
Public Access Office
PO Box 57192
London
SW6 1SF
[email address]
In all possible circumstances the MPS will aim to respond to your
complaint within 20 working days.
The Information Commissioner
After lodging a complaint with the MPS if you are still dissatisfied with
the decision you may make application to the Information Commissioner for
a decision on whether the request for information has been dealt with in
accordance with the requirements of the Act.
For information on how to make application to the Information Commissioner
please visit their website at www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk.
Alternatively, phone or write to:
Information Commissioner's Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF
Phone: 01625 545 700
show quoted sections
Metropolitan Police Service (MPS)
7 July 2010
Dear Ms Ranchev
Freedom of Information Request Reference No: 2010060003131
Further to our letter of 30th June 2010, I am now able to provide a full
response to your complaint dated 15th June 2010 concerning:
FOIA complaint on existing case - 2009060000208.
ORIGINAL REQUEST
FOR THE PAST SIX YEARS - I WOULD LIKE A LIST OF ALL HELICOPTER FLIGHTS
DURING THE NIGHT TIME AND EARLY MORNING (BETWEEN 11PM AND 8AM) OVER OR
NEAR MY ROAD (CANFIELD GARDENS) AND SOUTH HAMPSTEAD NW6, WITH THEIR
PURPOSE: ARE THEY 1/ROUTINE OR 2/RELATED TO ANY SPECIFIC CRIME (I DO NOT
NEED ANY MORE DETAILS THAN THAT).
YOUR COMPLAINT
Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information
reviews.
I am writing to request an internal review of Metropolitan Police Service
(MPS)'s handling of my FOI request 'ISSUE OF POLICE HELICOPTER FLIGHTS AT
NIGHT OVER SOUTH HAMPSTEAD LONDON NW6 (LB CAMDEN)'. Others living in
different areas had the exact same query as me, and they DID get a
response.
(By coincidence, the wording of those other requests was the same as mine
- asking for flights for past five or six years, though I only read them
afterwards. This only shows that people like me are aware when the
problem first started, and that we concur on this information.)
A flight very occasionally at night - if absolutely necessary for a huge
crime - would be acceptable. It should be the exception rather than the
rule, and only for something really major, not general 'public safety'
and making regular routine flights just for the 'police presence'.
I WOULD LIKE ACTUAL PROOF AND STATISTICS - if the Met claim that these
night flights have improved public safety, please convince me that all
the public expense and disturbance have made a really significant
difference... Because I do not think we are any safer now than before
we had these choppers at night. A full history of my FOI request and all
correspondence is available on the Internet at this address:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/is... .
On 30th June 2010 you clarified the below with us:
In that case, PLEASE DO 18 HOURS WORK and show whatever results you can
manage to provide in that time constraint, thank you.
DECISION
The Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) has completed its review and has
decided to:
* Uphold the original decision
I have now completed a thorough review of the original decision that was
given to you in a response sent by Alex Norrie on 29th June 2009. I agree
with the her decision to refuse some of the information because it would
not be possible to retrieve it within the cost threshold of 18 hours. Ms
Norrie gave you a clear and concise explanation how the recording of the
flight records were changed in 2006 from manual records to electronic
records. She provided you with the logs you have requested from 2006
onwards and she also sent you an additional piece of information to assist
you in understanding the decisions that are made to authorise night
flights.
The work that Ms Norrie carried out in order to retrieve and locate the
information that was originally disclosed to you was sufficient, if she
had carried on and begun processing the manual logs then this would then
have exceeded the cost threshold as she has previously explained.
COMPLAINT RIGHTS
If you are dissatisfied with this response please read the attached paper
entitled Complaint Rights which explains how to contact the Information
Commissioner with your complaint.
Should you have any further inquiries concerning this matter, please
contact me on 0207 161 3657 or at the address at the top of this letter,
quoting the reference number above.
Yours sincerely
Julia Wharton
FOI Coordinator & Review Officer
COMPLAINT RIGHTS
Are you unhappy with how your request has been handled or do you think the
decision is incorrect?
You have the right to require the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) to
review their decision.
Prior to lodging a formal complaint you are welcome and encouraged to
discuss the decision with the case officer that dealt with your request.
Ask to have the decision looked at again -
The quickest and easiest way to have the decision looked at again is to
telephone the case officer that is nominated at the end of your decision
letter.
That person will be able to discuss the decision, explain any issues and
assist with any problems.
Complaint
If you are dissatisfied with the handling procedures or the decision of
the MPS made under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the Act) regarding
access to information you can lodge a complaint with the MPS to have the
decision reviewed.
Complaints should be made in writing, within forty (40) working days from
the date of the refusal notice, and addressed to:
FOI Complaint
Public Access Office
PO Box 57192
London
SW6 1SF
[email address]
In all possible circumstances the MPS will aim to respond to your
complaint within 20 working days.
The Information Commissioner
After lodging a complaint with the MPS if you are still dissatisfied with
the decision you may make application to the Information Commissioner for
a decision on whether the request for information has been dealt with in
accordance with the requirements of the Act.
For information on how to make application to the Information Commissioner
please visit their website at www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk.
Alternatively, phone or write to:
Information Commissioner's Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF
Phone: 01625 545 700
show quoted sections
Londoner left an annotation (26 March 2011)
I am also having problems with helicopters for the last 6-7 years over the W1 area of London.
And the noisiest helicopters in my experienece are the police helicopters - I know because I photograph and film all of them. Unfortunately my please to the Met are invariably greeted with 'but we have a job to do'. Unfortunately residents also 'have a job to do' and if the noise means we cannot sleep, our work and health is affected. The effects of disrupted sleep and stress caused by environmental noise cannot be underestimated.
The net effect of the Met flying their helicopters so low to 'effectively cut crime' means residents may end up burdening the tax payer. For example, if I am tired I can't get up and do my job, since my taxes fund public services, the impact of environmental noise should matter and be taken into account.
I understand from the CAA and my MP that the problems mainly started when the EU in their wisdom lowered the height at which helictopters could fly, completely missing the point that in built up areas what was needed was an increase in the height helictopters should be able to hover.
Joseph Casey left an annotation (16 July 2011)
this is becoming increasingly frequent nearby wandsworth common, where I live. On one occasion last week there was four or five low flyovers in an hour, enough to make the glass rattle!
I think the problem down here is related to commercial copters rather than the police - battersea aerodrome is very close for a heli. I shall be endeavouring to find out where I can lodge a complaint.
dongorgan left an annotation ( 2 August 2011)
this also seems to becoming increasingly frequent and annoying where I live in Greenford, West London. Two nights in a row (3am and 5 am) I have been awoken by low flying helicopters. Absolutely ridiculous how is one supposed to sleep???
marians left an annotation (29 August 2011)
Gosh, I can't sleep @ all because of dese helicopters noises! Hw us one gona over-come this torture? Thank God there's no waking up to go to work in morning! It's completely torture!!
kilburnresident left an annotation (29 August 2011)
I live in NW6 and the chopper was noise was awful between 1.45 and 2.15 last night, and intermittent and more distant for another hour. Shall we all group together and launch an e-petition?
Londoner left an annotation (30 August 2011)
Kilburn resident - yes that may be a good idea. Also if we could post when and where the problem was and how bad it was.
kilburnresident left an annotation (31 August 2011)
Great! Do you live in or near Kilburn, or in a different chopper-spot? We should maybe talk to our neighbours and see how many people we can get on board, and I agree about logging the disturbances.
Londoner left an annotation ( 5 September 2011)
I live in W1 and have had repeated problems in this area.
Londoner left an annotation ( 5 September 2011)
I live in W1 and have had repeated problems in this area.
Donna Coleman left an annotation (17 October 2011)
Hi, I live in the Gravesend area of Kent (DA12) and too have repeated problems with noisy night time helicopters. The just seem to circle above the same area for about half an hour. I tell myself hopefully they are looking for someone but last week there was not even a search light. Anything you can find out would be great!
Things to do with this request
- Add an annotation (to help the requester or others)
- Download a zip file of all correspondence
Make and explore Freedom of Information requests






Jason H left an annotation (15 October 2009)
I also live in the West Hampstead Area and have noticed that there has been a lot of flight of Helicopters at night ( between the hours of 11pm and 6am). Last night there was another incident of this when the copter seemed to even hover right about our road ( Hillfield Road)for at least 30 mins. Again, it doesn't happen every night, but it is very annoying as it does happen at least once a month..from the report they have sent you it appear that these flights are not indeed police helicopters but must come from another source...have you thought of applying to the MOD for a FOI request on this issue?
Link to this