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jon made this Freedom of Information request to Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency
The request was refused by Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency.
From: jon
12 February 2009
Dear Sir or Madam,
I wish to reverse the registration process, unregister my car if
you like. On the v5 document, there are options for scrapping,
selling, exporting etc. But I do not wish to do any of these
things, I want the car to become one of my posessions, as opposed
to a registered vehicle. I must remind you I am aware of the
meaning of the word 'registration' according to Black's law
dictionary.
I want to be the rightful owner, as opposed to the registered
keeper. I want the car to have no connection with me on any
records, I want the car to be nothing more than a belonging which I
keep. How do I go about this process?
Yours faithfully,
jon: hallam
From: FOI FOI
Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency
3 March 2009
Thank you for your e-mail dated 12 February requesting information on how to un-register your vehicle. The Freedom of Information Act gives people a right to access non-personal information held by public authorities. The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) is the authority responsible for maintaining a register of drivers, vehicles and their keepers. As your request for information falls within DVLA+IBk-s day to day business, your request is subsequently being treated as +IBg-Business as Usual+IBk.
The vehicle register maintained by the DVLA is based on vehicles and the people - the registered keepers who are responsible for the use and licensing of the vehicles. It is not a register of legal title to vehicles. The register held at DVLA is essentially maintained to assist in revenue collection, road safety and law enforcement generally. It is clearly essential for all these purposes that the register shows the people who are responsible for the vehicles.
DVLA is unable to reverse a registration process at your request. If you keep or use a vehicle, it is a legal requirement that it is registered to you. All vehicle registration and licensing is governed by the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (as amended) and the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002. The law requires keepers to notify DVLA as they acquire and dispose of vehicles and Vehicle Registration Certificates (V5C) are issued to them to help this process. Failure to register a vehicle is an offence. In addition, your vehicle must be either licensed (taxed) or have a Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN) in force.
Further information on keeping a vehicle can be found at www.direct.gov.uk/motoring .
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From: jon
3 March 2009
Dear FOI FOI,
You have missed my point here, no doubt deliberately. I do not wish
the automobile to be a 'vehicle' any longer.You say failure to
licence a VEHICLE is an offence, well a de-registered car would not
be a 'VEHICLE' would it?
You also mention that the register held at DVLA is to assist in law
enforcement, I must tell you that whereas it may assist you in
statute enforcement, the law has nothing to do with it. The United
Kingdom is a common law jurisdiction, and enjoys the protection of
common law. Could you please show me where under common law, there
is any mention of vehicle registration.
Yours sincerely,
jon
From: FOI FOI
Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency
4 March 2009
Thank you for your further e-mail of 3 March about un-registering your vehicle.
As your initial request was not dealt with as a FOI request, I am of the opinion that an Internal Review under the FOI Code of Practice+IBk-s complaint procedures is inappropriate in the circumstances. As such no Internal Review will be undertaken into your request as it is felt that your initial request was answered in full, albeit not as a FOI request.
However, having now had the opportunity to give consideration to your latest correspondence of 3 March I can now provide you with relevant information. I should point out that the request for an Internal Review contained your e-mail of 3 March is also being dealt with as routine day to day business and not under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act.
As previously stated, all vehicle registration and licensing is governed by the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (as amended) and the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002.
As your vehicle is registered in the UK and you are recorded as the registered
keeper of the vehicle, you are legally obliged to comply with this legislation.
An individual cannot merely decide to un-register a vehicle; or decide that a vehicle can cease to be a vehicle. The term +AJM-vehicle+AJQ is defined in the Act as a mechanically propelled vehicle, or anything that has been, but has ceased to be, a mechanically propelled vehicle.
The common law references you quoted have no relevance to this legislation and do not exonerate a registered keeper from complying with this statutory obligation.
Therefore, it is your statutory obligation to ensure that your vehicle is correctly licensed (taxed) at all times, or a Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN) is in force. Failure to comply will result in you committing an offence.
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Dear FOI FOI, You have missed my point here, no doubt deliberately.
I do not wish the automobile to be a 'vehicle' any longer.You say
failure to licence a VEHICLE is an offence, well a de-registered
car would not be a 'VEHICLE' would it? You also mention that the
register held at DVLA is to assist in law enforcement, I must tell
you that whereas it may assist you in statute enforcement, the law
has nothing to do with it. The United Kingdom is a common law
jurisdiction, and enjoys the protection of common law. Could you
please show me where under common law, there is any mention of
vehicle registration.
Yours sincerely,
jon
show quoted sections
From: jon
4 March 2009
Dear FOI FOI,
with all respect, how can a 'vehicle' be defined as a vehicle,
that's like saying an apple is defined as an apple? you are being
ludicrous, send me a true definition of a vehicle please.
Yours sincerely,
jon
From: FOI FOI
Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency
4 March 2009
Thank you for your further e-mail requesting information on the
definition of a vehicle.
You have already been advised that all vehicle registration and
licensing is governed by the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994
(VERA) (as amended) and the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing)
Regulations 2002.
A vehicle is not defined in the Act, but analogy can be drawn from the
Road Traffic Act 1988 where a motor vehicle is defined for the purposes
of that Act. However, as previously stated, VERA applies not only to a
mechanically propelled vehicle but also to anything that has been such.
The function of the DVLA is to maintain an accurate record of drivers
and vehicles. It is responsible for the collection and enforcement of
vehicle excise duty (VED) and tackling vehicle crime. DVLA is not
responsible for providing definitive advice and are not in a position to
comment further on this matter.
I must advise that any further correspondence on this issue will be
acknowledged only.
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Dear FOI FOI,
with all respect, how can a 'vehicle' be defined as a vehicle,
that's like saying an apple is defined as an apple? you are being
ludicrous, send me a true definition of a vehicle please.
Yours sincerely,
jon
show quoted sections
From: jon
4 March 2009
Dear FOI FOI,
well you have done little other than make yourselves look silly.
Just answering the questions would have been a better idea, instead
of sidestepping them, answering with ambiguous rubbish, I simply
asked for the true definition of vehicle. You have failed
catastrophically, and I will be sharing this with my peers.
Yours sincerely,
jon
From: FOI FOI
Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency
4 March 2009
Thank you for your email.
show quoted sections
Dear FOI FOI, well you have done little other than make
yourselves
look silly. Just answering the questions would have been a better
idea, instead of sidestepping them, answering with ambiguous
rubbish, I simply asked for the true definition of vehicle. You
have failed catastrophically, and I will be sharing this with my
peers.
Yours sincerely,
jon
show quoted sections
Veronica Chapman left an annotation ( 5 March 2009)
A Statement such as:
"The common law references you quoted have no relevance to this legislation and do not exonerate a registered keeper from complying with this statutory obligation."
... indicates absolutely ZERO comprehension of the LAW, and the true situation.
The Common Law References ARE THE LAW. And they are ONLY THE LAW.
The Statutes quoted are nothing more than the Rules and Regulations of a 'Society'. A Society that has NO LAWFUL STANDING because it cannot be SPECIFICALLY NAMED. A Society whose Rules & Regulations are, therefore, entirely VOID and IRRELEVANT.
A Society that operates SOLELY by FRAUDULENT DECEPTION of purporting to 'make the LAW'.
A Society whose Rules and Regulations only apply to those who CONSENT to be bound by them.
Mr. Hallam has obviously chosen NOT TO CONSENT. He, like all others who choose NOT TO CONSENT are not - in any way - bound to take any notice of the Statutes quoted, because they are made by a LEGAL FICTION called 'THE GOVERNMENT'.
While THE LAW can give rise to legal fictions, legal fictions CANNOT give rise to THE LAW. (If that were possible, then any 'Government' could make a LAW promulgating it's own lifetime for evermore. But, fortunately, ALL GOVERNMENTS are BOUND BY LAW, and cannot create it)
Veronica Chapman left an annotation ( 5 March 2009)
What Mr. Hallam wants to know is not "What all the Statutes are".
He knows that these are totally irrelevant.
What he wants to know is "How, precisely, does he make it crystal clear to all and sundry that he does not CONSENT to them ... as he is fully entitled so to do"
Veronica Chapman left an annotation ( 5 March 2009)
All refernces to Mr. Hallam, above, should have read "Jon: of the Hallam family", of course. That being what he, as a Human being, is Commonly Called.
Nick Peters left an annotation (12 March 2009)
I should ignore all of this philosophical waffle, but I have to ask whether Veronica and Jon are for real? Sadly, think that they probably are...
Tim left an annotation (23 March 2009)
Jon Hallam -- if your car-turned-garden-ornament is still recognisable as a car but is currently being used off-road as a garden ornament, then you should just use the SORN option. If you have dismantled the car to make it into your garden ornament, then you should use the "scrapped" option. These options seem adequate to cover your situation. -- Tim
jon left an annotation (23 March 2009)
tim, thank you for trying to help, but the situation is a lot different to how you see it. My request was an effort to expose the grand deception about registration, application and submission. I do not wish to turn my car into a garden ornament. Most people think they own their cars, but this is not true. Have you ever wondered why the v5 document refers to you as 'registered keeper'? Registration according to Law Dictionary is the act of signing over ownership of the thing, this unfortunately includes land, and even children. Application means to beg, and submit is to bend to anothers will. so by submitting an application for registration, you are willingly handing over ownership of the said item. Ever wondered why the DVLA can take away your car and crush it tim? Its because they own your car, you begged them to own it. You are merely the keeper, if it was your car, taking it from you would be theft. Please visit fmotl.com for further info, or watch videos such as 'the grand deception' on google video.
mark-william:baker left an annotation (23 May 2009)
im pretty sure this comes under what is known as contract law and by registering the vehicle it gives the dvla the right to destruct/remove/sell the property legally.by signing over the title you have effectively contracted to their terms and conditions!but as with all contracts with for profit businesses you can give them notice and lawfully reclaim your property as long as you have proof of purchase.
as said many times possession is 9/10ths of the law the 1/10th is the contract signed ;-)
Veronica Chapman left an annotation (24 May 2009)
Thank you mark-william. Wholeheartedly agreed, except that the Contract is null &void anyway because Full Disclosure did not occur, no Equal Consideration is offered by the DVLA, and there was never any Intent to Contract in this manner.
No-one would register their car if they realised they were handing over Full Ownership Title to the Government, would they? For the pleasure of paying Road Tax every year? You would willingly engage in a Contract under these conditions? Or do you engage in this Contract under duress? The duress of believing "they can make things really nasty for you, if you don't"? That's called duress. Plain & simple. No Contract such as that is valid in Common Law.
One interesting thing we have discovered is there is such a thing known as a "DVLA Trading Fund"
mark-william:baker left an annotation ( 3 June 2009)
im not 100% sure but i think that the license is for when using a vehicle n commerce i.e a driver for a company or using it to carry tools or packages for or as your trade.if this is the case then it would be a tax deductable amount anyways so the company wouldn't be paying the full rate as they can claim it back.
jon left an annotation ( 3 December 2009)
Quite right. DRIVING defined in legalese is not sitting at the wheel of a car, it is acting in commerce upon the highways. The wool has been pulled over our eyes yet again, NOBODY needs a licence to travel. It is an ilalienable right. We give up this right in exchange for a PRIVELAGE, the moment we APPLY (beg) for a DRIVING LICENCE.
A right cannot be taken away, only given away.
A privelage can be both granted and taken away.
Norman: Hinks left an annotation ( 3 December 2009)
If one is not acting in commerce, one just needs to assert the right to travel and 'understand' where in law he is at the time of being asked or doing the activity.
One can have a license for the times when one is acting in commerce, , and still not need one in every other situation, in my opinion.
Pharmassay Int'l Ltd. left an annotation ( 7 December 2009)
Jon, I am undertaking this process with 2 cars, one of which I had informed them I had permanently exported. The replies I got from DVLA for the two separate notices were revealing, the car that was still registered with them got a strict no nonsense reply of Statute laws, etc. and the car that had been exported got a "its outside our jurisdiction" type reply. I suggest you "Export" your property to outside "UK Ltd" and serve Notice of understanding, intent and claim of right and can then travel free of license in your own property.
Peace and harmony to all living souls, rgds, Jim
Pharmassay Int'l Ltd. left an annotation ( 7 December 2009)
Jon,
Sorry I didn't perhaps make it clear that Exporting your car doesn't involve removing it from its present geographical location,(British Isles) its a legal movement, you are exporting it to the outside of their company system. (Registration). You are using their company forms to have them record the car as having left their, how shall we say, custodial care?
rgds, Jim
Philip Collins left an annotation ( 3 January 2010)
It should be understood that a human being cannot use the FOI act, only a 'legal person' can and as such you will never be able to get the kind of answers you seek using it.
Indeed you are only frustrating those authorities with questions like these.
If you don't want your vehicle to be a vehicle any more then just write us a letter stating that you are no longer the registered keeper, no longer liable as the registered keeper, disregarding the V5.
The result of this is that you are of course still the owner, not that it has anything to do with the DVLA, however they will likely still take it from you at some point, believing they have the right to do so,
It is then for you to take them to court / lien for the damages.
Solution, buy cheap cars that you don't care about losing, be prepared to replace it every year.
James:Argent left an annotation ( 2 February 2010)
Simply write to the DVLA and INFORM them of your YOUR car's new IDENTIFICATION NUMBER. Send back your car's REGISTRATION NUMBER, as this is what the DVLA own. When you receive a ''reminder'' write on the envelope NO CONTRACT RETURN TO SENDER, ADDRESSEE NOT RECOGNISED. You may have to write the DVLA'S address as they have now got wise to this and print DO NOT RETURN TO SENDER on their reminders sent out. LOL.
TehPedro left an annotation ( 1 March 2010)
A few years ago I saw a few tutorial videos on how to legally avoid paying VED. I stumbled across this site looking for them. Basically he did a lot of letter writing jumped through a bunch of legal hoops, somehow registered his car as a private vehicle and now he doesn't have to pay road tax but he can only drive within his county.
I don't really want to follow in his footsteps but it'd be interesting to see the vids again. If anyone reading this knows the ones I mean and could let me know I'd greatly appreciate it.
Russell left an annotation (14 September 2010)
Have a look at this very helpful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ApMM49kP...
Plenty more if you look.
Best regards Russell
Jo left an annotation ( 6 January 2012)
Hiya I was wondering if anyone could tell me where it's written that a civil matter depends on a contract?? My sister's being taken to court for a civil matter but there is NO breached contract!! >:(
Curtis left an annotation (23 January 2012)
I was intrigued by this subject after a conversation I had with an acquaintance who was trying to do the same thing.
What you're missing is that, no insurer will insure a car that isn't registered with DVLA and displays a current tax disc...and insurance IS required by law.
Furthermore, his belief (although not mentioned here), was that he would no longer be regulated by speed cameras and traffic wardens. Average speed check cameras I would understand as these tend to be on A roads. Speed cameras however, are traffic calming measures to ensure the safety of pedestrians (CHILDREN) in residential areas. Traffic wardens do sometimes operate in areas purely for revenue purposes (local government), but also to ensure safety outside of schools etc.
There are huge holes in this theory. As the saying goes; if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!
Thanks
James:Argent left an annotation (24 January 2012)
Curtis, I can not believe for one moment that someone sooo intrigued by 'this subject' would sign up here and troll it. Conversation you say, with an acquaintance?? I would guess a work colleague at the DVLA. Funny, because I spoke to someone called Curtis at the DVLA who did not have an understanding of the LAW. Same person? Maybe, meh...
Firstly, insurance companies dropped the word 'scheme' many years ago from their packages. [SCHEME-look that up in a dictionary and a law dictionary preferably pre-1925]
You mention REGISTERED. Look up that word in a law dictionary. When you register something you give up allodial title to that possession. Think what other things you are obliged to register and give up ownership of. Your land, your house, your wife, your children, your car, your business...the list is endless. What we are practising here is the first plank of the Communist Manifesto. 1. Abolition of land ownership.
Do you think its a coincidence you can not insure your car without being REGISTERED???
You mention the LAW, registration is required by LAW. What Law is that then? What I think you mean are ACTS and STATUTES, ENACTED through primary and secondary legislation. The definition of LAW; "A legislative rule of (the LAW)society, by corporation of rule, given the force of Law by CONSENT of the governed"
1. What is our society called and when did I become a member? Nobody asked me if I wanted to join.
2. Corporation of rule. Our Government is a corporation?
3. GIVEN the FORCE of LAW, by CONSENT of the Governed. Did you read that, Consent. Are you asked whether or not you would like to pay council tax???
Your friend needs to read more about the subject if he thinks he can speed. Its about being responsible and self sufficient, without interfearence from the state.
The man below knows his stuff. But dont take his word for it. Research it, research, research, research.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAntiTerro...
How to deal with parking tickets
http://tpuc.org/content/chris-lees-penal...
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jon left an annotation (17 February 2009)
Link to this