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compleate copy of munuits
George Cant made this Freedom of Information request to North East Lincolnshire Council
Waiting for an internal review by North East Lincolnshire Council of their handling of this request.
From: George Cant
7 August 2009
Dear Sir or Madam,
please can i have a complete copy of the minutes for the council
meetings held on 6th july ( special interest report ). the on line
version seems to have omitted the auditor comments. Because of the
circumstances that this special meeting arose i consider its very
important that every word of this meeting is made public.
also, same for the meeting 6th august full verbatim copy please
I am also look for the date of the cabinet meeting ( 2003 ) that
the decision was taken to change the council tax policy in relation
to bailiffs actions and court applications.
Yours faithfully,
George Cant
From: Customer Requests
North East Lincolnshire Council
7 August 2009
Thank you for contacting us. Your request has been forwarded onto the
relevant department for them to take the appropriate action.
For future contact regarding this issue please use this reference
CRM582126
Yours sincerely
Customer Requests
Confidentiality Note
The information in this message including any attachments may be
confidential or privileged and is for the use of the named recipient
only. If you are not the named or intended recipient you may not copy,
distribute, or deliver this message to anyone or take action in reliance
on it. If you receive this message in error please contact the sender
immediately and delete it from your system
show quoted sections
From: George Cant
3 September 2009
Dear Customer Requests,
I hope there was a good reason for withholding this request the
full time. and i am going to ask afterwords why the delay with this
request, and who is responcable for the delay
Yours sincerely,
George Cant
From: George Cant
4 September 2009
Dear Customer Requests,
you have replied to this on the incorect request.
you replied
"Dear Mr Cant
Thank you for your request for information under the Freedom of
Information Act.
In response to your query about the minutes of the Council meetings
held
on 6th July and 6th August, the complete minutes are as per the
versions
to be found on the Council's web-site. There is no legal
requirement to
make a verbatim record of the business transacted at any meeting.
With regard to your Council Tax Policy query in relation to
bailiffs
actions and court applications, there is no record of any decision
taken
by Cabinet on this matter.
Kind regards
Paul Windley
Senior Democratic Services Officer
North East Lincolnshire Council
Municipal Offices
Town Hall Square
Grimsby
North East Lincolnshire
DN31 1HU
( Tel: 01472 324121
* E-mail: [email address]
"
Yours sincerely,
George Cant
This responce is a joke. We are run by special executive
arraingement. please ask the chief executive to review this
From: George Cant
4 September 2009
Dear Sir or Madam,
Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of
Information reviews.
I am writing to request an internal review of North East
Lincolnshire Council's handling of my FOI request 'complete copy of
munuits'.
A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is
available on the Internet at this address:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/co...
Yours faithfully,
George Cant
You have also lied in the response.
this response factual inacuret ( or a lie as we call it ) . and has
been delayed so the special executive can protect a few ward
councillor.s.
what on earth is going on at my council for this answer to be
classed as appropriate
From: Customer Requests
North East Lincolnshire Council
4 September 2009
Thank you for contacting us. Your request has been forwarded onto the
relevant department for them to take the appropriate action.
For future contact regarding this issue please use this reference
CRM838303
Yours sincerely
Customer Requests.
show quoted sections
George Cant left an annotation ( 4 September 2009)
Have done Shc.
What an indicator of corruption/maladministration.
Stuart Hardwicke CARRUTHERS left an annotation ( 4 September 2009)
Did you notice that they were looking at withdrawing their advertising from the local papers when the minutes were published..
NEL27 16th July, 2009..
“This Council expresses its concern at the planned withdrawal of recruitment advertising from the Grimsby Telegraph and its transfer to the Linc Up magazine or to the Council’s website and the potential impact of the proposals on one of its partner organisations.'
there is nothing like freedom of the press when linked to loss of Council advertising
George Cant left an annotation ( 9 September 2009)
Noticed it and am on it. I attended that meeting, and identified the councillors that voted for it.
my local paper is owned by the daily mail, i have sent them some info this week.
From: George Cant
28 September 2009
Dear Customer Requests,
Please confirm what document's/audio/video you hold in relation to
the council meetings. Are you suggesting that whats on the website
at the date i put this request in, is all the council hold ?
Yours sincerely,
George Cant
From: Customer Requests
North East Lincolnshire Council
28 September 2009
Dear Mr Cant
Thank you for contacting us. Your request has been forwarded onto the
relevant department for them to take the appropriate action.
For future contact regarding this issue please use this reference CRM
845316
Yours sincerely
Customer Requests
Confidentiality Note
The information in this message including any attachments may be
confidential or privileged and is for the use of the named recipient
only. If you are not the named or intended recipient you may not copy,
distribute, or deliver this message to anyone or take action in reliance
on it. If you receive this message in error please contact the sender
immediately and delete it from your system.
show quoted sections
From: George Cant
2 December 2009
Dear Customer Requests,
You are out of time for this internal review. Its a false responce
and i would like to proceed it with my other action. Please
imedealy advise me on the status of the internal review
Yours sincerely,
George Cant
From: Customer Requests
North East Lincolnshire Council
2 December 2009
Dear Mr Cant
Thank you for your email. We are sorry you have had no response to your
original request this has been sent to the relevant Manager to deal with
accordingly I have requested they respond to you within 24 hours.
Yours Sincerely
Customer Requests
show quoted sections
From: Cant, G
3 December 2009
Dear Mr Cant
Please accept my apology for the delay in responding to your Freedom of
Information request made on 28th September 2009 CRM reference 845316.
You requested that North East Lincolnshire Council `Please confirm what
document's/audio/video you hold in relation to the council meetings. Are
you suggesting that whats on the website at the date i put this request
in, is all the council hold?'
In accordance with the Freedom of Information Act (section 1) I am pleased
to confirm that North East Lincolnshire Council holds the information you
have requested, which I am pleased to provide as follows:
I can confirm that neither audio nor visual records are kept of full
Council meetings. The only documents North East Lincolnshire Council hold
for the Council meeting(s) you refer to in your request, are those that
have been made publicly available via the Council website
http://www.nelincs.gov.uk/. Occasionally papers are circulated at the
meeting and wherever possible such papers are also made available via the
Council's web-site. Such papers will be referred to in the minutes for
that particular meeting and, should they not have been made available on
the Council's web-site, contact should be made with the Democratic
Services office who will endeavour to obtain a copy, subject of course to
the papers being classed as 'open' documents under the Local Government
Act legislation.
I trust that this answers your request in full.
If you are unhappy with the response you have received, you have the right
to request an internal review by the Council, if following this you are
still dissatisfied you may contact the Office of the Information
Commissioner. If you wish to request an internal review, please contact me
and I will make the necessary arrangements.
Yours sincerely
Paul Ellis
Corporate Records and Information Manager
North East Lincolnshire Council
Municipal Offices
Town Hall Square
Grimsby
North East Lincolnshire
DN31 1HU
show quoted sections
George Cant left an annotation ( 3 December 2009)
I asked you :
Please confirm what document's/audio/video you hold in relation to
the council meetings.
You have said none.
So, how are the documents transcribed,. DO YOU NOT RECORD THE MEETING AT ALL.
IF THIS IS THE CASE HOW DO YOU TRANSCRIBE ? is it done by memory. Please answer what data you use to complete the muniets.
WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT THERE IS NO RECORDWED VERSION OF THE ADISTRICT AUDITORS COMMENTS AT THE SPECIAL INTERST MEETING.
i AM SAYING YOU ( THE EXECUTIVE ) HAVE MADE THIS THE CASE BECAUSE HE CLEARLY BLAMED YOU. AND THE MUNITES WOULD BE THE ONLY WAY A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC COUYLD UNDERSTAND THIS .
PLEASE CONFIRM IMMEDEATLY WHAT MEDIA WAS USED TO PARTIALY COMPLEATE THE MINUETS AS THEY ARE.
George Cant left an annotation (11 December 2009)
RepLIED by post :
Dear Mr Cant
An Internal Review has taken place following your request of December 4th 2009, into North East Lincolnshire Council's response to your Freedom of Information requests of August 7th 2009 (CRM 582126) and September 28th 2009 (CRM 845316).
Your request of August 7th 2009 (CRM 582126) asked for ‘a complete copy of the minutes for the council meetings held on 6th July (special interest report). The on line version seems to have omitted the auditor comments. Because of the circumstances that this special meeting arose I consider its very important that every word of this meeting is made public. Also, same for the meeting 6th august full verbatim copy please. I am also look for the date of the cabinet meeting (2003) that the decision was taken to change the council tax policy in relation to bailiffs actions and court applications.’
North East Lincolnshire Council responded to the two parts of your request on September 2nd 2009. For the minutes of the Council meetings held on 6th July and 6th August, ‘the complete minutes are as per the versions to be found on the Council's web-site. There is no legal requirement to make a verbatim record of the business transacted at any meeting.’
For the Council Tax policy enquiry ‘With regard to your Council Tax Policy query in relation to bailiffs actions and court applications, there is no record of any decision taken by Cabinet on this matter.’
Further to this on September 28th 2009, you asked the Council (CRM 845316) to ‘Please confirm what document's/audio/video you hold in relation to the council meetings. Are you suggesting that whats on the website at the date I put this request in, is all the council hold?’
North East Lincolnshire Council responded to your request on December 3rd 2009. The response was sent after the 20 working days set in section 10 of the Freedom of Information Act, and included an apology for the delay. The response confirmed ‘that neither audio nor visual records are kept of full Council meetings. The only documents North East Lincolnshire Council hold for the Council meeting(s) you refer to in your request, are those that have been made publicly available via the Council website http://www.nelincs.gov.uk/. Occasionally papers are circulated at the meeting and wherever possible such papers are also made available via the Council's web-site. Such papers will be referred to in the minutes for that particular meeting and, should they not have been made available on the Council's web-site, contact should be made with the Democratic Services office who will endeavour to obtain a copy, subject of course to the papers being classed as 'open' documents under the Local Government Act legislation.’
In your internal review request of December 4th 2009, you asked a further question of ‘what media the minutes are taken from’.
I have reviewed the responses provided to your Freedom of Information requests, and consider that they have been answered in full. In summary:
* The minutes of the Council meetings held on 6th July and 6th August 2009, are available on the Council's web-site at http://www.nelincs.gov.uk/Council/Commit...
* No documents relating to the Council meetings held on 6th July and 6th August 2009, other than those available on the Council website are held by North East Lincolnshire Council.
* There is no legal requirement to make a verbatim record of the business transacted at any meeting.
* No audio or visual records are kept of full Council meetings.
* No records are held by North East Lincolnshire Council about a Cabinet decision on bailiff’s actions and court applications in connection with Council Tax Policy, in 2003. Copies of the agendas, minutes and reports of Council meetings, including Cabinet and Full Council can be found at http://www.nelincs.gov.uk/council/commit...
In response to your question included in the internal review request, the minutes are produced from hand-written notes taken at the meeting, which are disposed of when the minutes are approved. In accordance with section 1 of the Freedom of Information Act, I can confirm that the Council no longer holds the handwritten copies for the meetings of July 6th and August 6th 2009.
I have investigated the reasons for the delay in responding to your request of September 28th 2009 (CRM 845316), and have identified that this was caused by a delay in the request being passed to the responding officer. Processes have been reviewed to prevent this reoccurring in the future. Please accept my apology on behalf of the Council for the delay in responding to your request.
I trust that the review of the responses provided to your Freedom of Information requests has answered your query in full, however if you require further clarification, please do not hesitate to contact me.
If you are not happy with my decision you may wish to contact the Information Commissioner's Office at:
Bradley Roberts left an annotation (12 December 2009)
Can't believe there is "no legal requirement" to make verbatim records of any council business discussed at full council meetings or committees.
Nothing like a bit of secrecy, and a direct parallel with staments on verbatim recordings put our by Downing Street.
George Cant left an annotation (14 June 2010)
I have just raised this as a formal complaint in relation to them with holding the information that the auditor called the meeting for.
From: George Cant
14 June 2010
Dear North East Lincolnshire Council,
In response to your question included in the internal review
request, the minutes are produced from hand-written notes taken at
the meeting, which are disposed of when the minutes are approved.
In accordance with section 1 of the Freedom of Information Act, I
can confirm that the Council no longer holds the handwritten copies
for the meetings of July 6th and August 6th 2009.
----------------------------------------------
Can i ask what date the hand writen notes were destroyed. for both
occasions IE had you already destroyed the ones from the 6th August
meeting when i asked on the 7th. Obvioulsy this is very relevent
A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is
available on the Internet at this address:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/co...
Yours faithfully,
George Cant
From: Customer Requests
North East Lincolnshire Council
15 June 2010
Dear Mr Cant
Thank you for contacting us. Your request has been forwarded onto the
relevant department for them to take the appropriate action.
Your reference is CRM923372, this MUST be quoted in any future contact
relating to this enquiry. This will ensure that we are fully aware of
the background to your concern if you should need to contact us again
regarding this.
Yours sincerely
Customer Requests
Confidentiality Note
The information in this message including any attachments may be
confidential or privileged and is for the use of the named recipient
only. If you are not the named or intended recipient you may not copy,
distribute, or deliver this message to anyone or take action in reliance
on it. If you receive this message in error please contact the sender
immediately and delete it from your system.
show quoted sections
From: PPD - FOI
North East Lincolnshire Council
15 June 2010
Dear Mr Cant
I am pleased to acknowledge your request for information received on 14
June 2010, which has been allocated the reference number 20100632
(CRM923372).
Your request has been passed to the relevant department for processing
and you can expect your response within the 20 working day limit. If it
will take us longer than 20 working days to respond to you, we will
inform you of this and provide you with the expected date for receiving
the response.
Further information about how we will deal with your Freedom of
Information requests is available on our website at:
http://www.nelincs.gov.uk/council-and-de...
dom-of-information/
Please feel free to contact me if you require any further information or
assistance quoting the reference number above.
Research and Information Assistant
On behalf of North East Lincolnshire Council
show quoted sections
From: George Cant
29 June 2010
Dear PPD - FOI,
I have askewd for a confirmation in realtion to your answer, why do
you think you have twenty days.
BECAUSE IT SHOWS YOU REMOVED THIS VERY IMPORTANT DATA AFTER I ASKED
FOR IT.
Please just confirm so i can progress this. Dont need an
explination, just a yes or no will do
Yours sincerely,
George Cant
From: Windley, Paul
North East Lincolnshire Council
29 June 2010
Dear Mr Cant
Thank you for your Freedom of Information request dated 14th June 2010.
In response we do not record the actual date that notes are disposed of
but this would have happened immediately after their formal approval at
the meeting of North East Lincolnshire Council held on 17th September,
2009.
I would also note that your initial request was for a copy of the
minutes of the Council meetings held on July 6th and August 6th 2009,
not the hand-written notes from the meeting. The issue of hand-written
notes did not arise until your follow up request on 28th September 2009
asking for confirmation of documents/audio/video that we hold in
relation to council meetings and your internal review request of
December 4th 2009 when you asked a further question of 'what media the
minutes are taken from'.
Regards
Paul Windley
Senior Democratic Services Officer
North East Lincolnshire Council
Municipal Offices
Town Hall Square
Grimsby
North East Lincolnshire
DN31 1HU
Tel: 01472 324121
E-mail: [email address]
show quoted sections
From: George Cant
30 June 2010
Dear Windley, Paul,
Absolute rubbish
I asked you on 7th august ( in the morning ) for full verbatim
copy's for both dates.
you still had the hand written munites taken from both meetings
when i asked. This was also the first opportunity that any member
of the public that attended the meeting had to questions the
minuets. Of which i did immedealy.
So, when I asked, you had both, you were just due to destroy the
first ones, ( agreed the night before ). I contacted your
monitoring officer ( through my box ) am, and told him I wanted the
recordings/notes.
To anyone else following this. The two meetings were part of the
district auditors special public interest report.
This was a report into the financial failing conducted by my
council executive. The DA identified ( its in his report ) the
failing part of the executive, the same executive branch at my
council are responsible for the interpretation and taking of the
notes
Yours sincerely,
George Cant
From: Ellis, Paul
North East Lincolnshire Council
2 July 2010
Dear Mr Cant
Thank you for your further enquiry with regard to copies of the verbatim
minutes for the North East Lincolnshire Council meetings held on July 6th
and August 6th 2009.
As previously detailed to you North East Lincolnshire Council have neither
a policy nor a legal responsibility to take verbatim minutes of meetings.
Therefore in accordance with section 1 of the Freedom of Information Act I
wish to confirm that North East Lincolnshire Council does not hold and has
never held verbatim minutes for the meetings held on July 6th and August
6th 2009.
If you are not happy with the council's response to your request you can
contact Information Commissioner's Office at the address below for a
review of the response.
Information Commissioner's Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire SK9 5AF
Telephone 08456 306060 or 01625 545745
Yours sincerely
Paul Ellis
Corporate Records and Information Manager
North East Lincolnshire Council
show quoted sections
From: George Cant
2 July 2010
Dear Ellis, Paul,
absolute rubbish again.
i asked this on 7th August, when i ask this you still had the hand
written muniets, Both copys.
You just chose to throw them away before you replied. Just on there
own , this would be serious maladminmistration. Put them in context
with the information removed, its much more serious than that.
the request addition on the 28th was just to confirm what format
you held them in.
you also keep saying " ther is no legal requirement to keep a
verbatim copy"
I did not ask you that.
I asked "also, same for the meeting 6th august full verbatim copy
please"
see"verbatim (not comparable)
1. (of a document) Corresponding with the original word for word."
you know i meant could i have a copy of the written munuites.
i will send this to the ICO, am more interested about how you have
tried to miss direct the questions.
Yours sincerely,
George Cant
Things to do with this request
- Add an annotation (to help the requester or others)
- Download a zip file of all correspondence
Stuart Hardwicke CARRUTHERS left an annotation ( 4 September 2009)
Link to this