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Note of WNC Commissioners' meeting

31 October 2007

Those Present:

Joyce Gould (JG) Interim Chair

Anita Gale (AG) Commissioner

Sabin Malik (SM) Commissioner

Bronagh Hinds (BH) Commissioner

Brenda King (BK) Commissioner

Susan Green (SG) Acting Director, WNC

Daniel Barrow (DB) Deputy Director, WNC

Leon Bond (LB) Business Manager, WNC

Apologies:

Liz Kelly Commissioner

Ranjana Bell Commissioner

Agenda Item 1 - Chairs opening remarks and apologies

1) JG opened the meeting and gave apologies for both Ranjana Bell and Liz Kelly. All Commissioners were asked to confirm that they had received letters informing them that their terms of appointment as Commissioners had been extended by six months. JG also extended thanks to Helene Reardon-Bond in the GEO for negotiating and arranging this.

Action Point 1 - SG to thank Helene Reardon-Bond for negotiating the extension to Commissioners contracts.

Agenda Item 2 - Review of previous night's discussion

2) As BK had not been able to attend the previous day's Learning Exchange, JG provided Commissioners with a brief summary of the discussion with Barbara Follett on the WNC light touch review report. In summary, the points discussed were:

Under Section A

  1. The Board should review the financial implications of the WNC work programme, prior to it's presentation to Ministers by the Chair.

Action Point 2 - SG to check and present to Commissioners, the financial implications of the 2008/09 Work Programme when it is finalised and before it is presented to Ministers by the Chair.

Under Section B

  1. The Memorandum of Understanding between WNC and GEO/ministers should include reference to work carried out across the four nations.

Action Point 3 - Directorate to consider how the four nations can best be incorporated within WNC work and the MoU between GEO and WNC, building on work taken forward with GEO and Barbara Follett.

Under Section C

  1. The recommendation for WNC to establish a documented working relationship with the new EHRC by 2009 should be strengthened to: a formal memorandum of understanding. This should be completed earlier than the recommended deadline of 2009.

Action Point 4 - Directorate to approach EHRC to set up a MoU with WNC.

Under Section E

  1. The role of WNC as an advisory NDPB and the responsibilities of Commissioners should be clearly set out in their `Terms of Reference'.

Action Point 5 - Directorate to include role of WNC as an advisory NDPB within revised Commissioners Terms of Reference, including the framework WNC operates within.

  1. The business planning process should be clearly set out and linked closely to the WNC's remit.

Action Point 6 - Directorate to ensure the business planning process is linked closely to WNC's remit.

Under Section F

  1. Commissioners welcomed this proposed change to pay a remuneration to Commissioners. It was seen as increasing the perceived status of the WNC and allowing a wider range of Commissioners to apply in future. Commissioners noted that the proposed remuneration figure should increase with inflation. However, the recommendation to pay any level of remuneration was still dependent on GEO's financial situation and ongoing negotiations with the Treasury.

Under Section G

  1. Commissioners had asked for the Director's appointment to be for no more than five years, rather than two to three. The post is traditionally one where building relationships and credibility with the sector is crucial and it was considered that shorter term posts could be detrimental to those relationships.

Under Section H

  1. The Board asked for greater clarification on the meaning of `core remit', as it was felt that WNC had not moved appreciably away from it.

Action Point 7 - SG to liaise with GEO to clarify the definition of WNC's `core remit', as used within the report.

3) A discussion on how the Review and its recommendations could be published, took place. There were several suggestions on the most appropriate way to do this, including asking for amendments to be made to the report, summarising the recommendations, or drafting a summary document to accompany the report. It was agreed to task the Directorate with liaising with GEO, given that the report was produced for the Minister for Women (MfW).

Action Point 8 - SG to liaise with GEO on the format and timing of the Review Report's publication, together with any contribution and comment by WNC.

4) The Directorate was also asked to clarify the role of GEO, when WNC was negotiating with OGD's for funding of new work projects. It was expected that GEO would use their position as WNC sponsor, to ensure all appropriate costs were covered by the OGD.

5) JG covered several of the other points that Barbara Follett made, her view of WNC as a `bridge' between the sector and government, her desire to meet with WNC quarterly, her enthusiasm for `21st Century' communication methods and the opportunities for WNC to build it's network of contacts across the nations via MPs. Her thoughts on increasing the number of Commissioners to ten were discussed, with JG expressing her wish for twelve as a more satisfactory number. WNC was asked to encourage its partners to help champion the use of the gender equality duty, with a view to putting pressure on their local public bodies to meet statutory commitments on gender equality. Commissioners had suggested that Gender Equality Ministers from the four nations should meet to share and build on good practice.

Agenda Item 3 - Minutes of last meeting and Action Points

6) On an administrative point, tracked changes were visible on some versions of the minutes. Future versions should be double checked to ensure these were not visible.

7) BH asked for an amendment to the July minutes regarding her concern over CEDAW and those approached from N. Ireland.

AG gave a verbal answer to Action point 4.

Any nomination for a Welsh woman to receive an honour would go to both the Assembly's First Minister and the Secretary of State for Wales for approval.

JG asked if Commissioners were aware of similar issues for those resident in Scotland. It was agreed to contact the appropriate bodies for clarification on this.

Action Point 9 - LB to check process for nominating Welsh and Scottish women for honours with OCPA and OCPA-Scotland, in relation to the devolved executives.

In the following discussion, BK offered to use her contacts within ECOSOC to facilitate events within Scotland until any Scottish Commissioner was appointed.

Agenda Item 4 - WNC independence, aims, objectives and constitution

8) JG apologised to Commissioners for the large number of papers provided for the meeting, however it was important that the Board was properly informed before coming to decisions. Each paper was taken in turn, with Commissioners offering their brief thoughts on the content, style and relevance in light of the Review.

WNC Vision, Mission and Aims

9) SG briefly introduced this paper, explaining the Vision had come out of a Commissioners' Awayday some years ago, which had followed a strategic review. JG believed that the Review had not touched on this aspect of WNC's work and that this paper still represented WNC well.

10) BH asked whether the balance between government-facing and sector-facing roles was balanced correctly. It could be restated into two areas;

  1. having a Board from different backgrounds, that brought their separate experiences to the work of the commissions, and

  2. being an open channel for the women's sector to government, and from the government to the sector.

Also that `capacity building' was something that WNC should try to enable in others, rather than carry out directly.

11) JG considered that having one document, rather than aims, objectives, constitution, etc., would assist in defining WNC's role to itself and stakeholders, removing any misunderstandings. The lines `Holding the government to account' and `ensuring women's opinions are taken into account' as part of the mission were discussed and still felt to be possible for an NDPB, although more in terms of open advice and positioning, rather than enforcement. Other suggested amendments were put forward, such as;

“Empowering women…”, rather than `Capacity building';

Inclusion of `independent' as a core description;

Being more descriptive overall, to give realistic expectations to the sector.

It was agreed to continue the discussion over email, to bring out all the points raised more fully. Commissioners were encouraged to email their specific and general comments to the Directorate, as soon as possible.

Action Point 10 - All Commissioners to email comments and amendments on the WNC `Vision, Mission and Aims' to DB as soon as possible.

WNC Constitution

12) There were a number of points raised regarding the constitution, with the Directorate tasked to provide a draft for Commissioners to comment upon. These points can be summarised as follows;

    1. Redrafting the line `Government's official independent advisory body on women', to clarify WNC's position as independent, but funded by and having formal access to, government.

    2. Amending the bracketed line `that is a non-statutory body - i.e. no legal status'.

    3. Under `Guiding values', redraft as “Promote equality for women”.

    4. Add “…where resources allow” instead of `within budget' for being accessible.

    5. Under `Functions', it was felt to be overly government focused, so removing an instance of the word `government' would help.

    6. Including mention of Commissioners' role and work done across the four nations was also suggested.

    7. `Activities' was left until later in the meeting, to be discussed after Commissioners had looked in more detail at a work programme. Due to lack of time however, this was not reached.

Action Point 11 - Directorate to suggest a draft for the `Activities' section of the Constitution.

    1. Under `The role of the Board of Commissioners', amend `…The group as a whole will represent expertise…' to “…reflect expertise…”

    2. Under `Relationship with the sponsor department', mention of the proposed MOU and the need for information supplied to WNC by GEO on upcoming issues were raised. The restrictions on an NDPB were also queried, with that definition to be placed on the WNC website

Action Point 12 - Before each future meeting, Directorate to request a table of current and upcoming events and activities from GEO.

Action Point 13 - Directorate to provide a clear definition of an advisory NDPB, what it can and cannot do, including any specific restrictions upon it, in the new Governance document.

Strategic Plan 2004/06

13) Commissioners agreed to consider this and to email specific suggestions to the Directorate. The board to agree the final version once drafted.

Action Point 14 - All Commissioners to email specific suggestions on the WNC Strategic Plan to SG as soon as possible.

Agenda Item 5 - Role of Commissioners

14) There was a general discussion on the role of Commissioners, together with the current Person Specification. It was agreed that the specification needed a redraft in line with the `Plain English' guidelines. It should focus on the WNC remit and its role as `reflecting' views, rather than as individuals being representatives of a particular group. Commissioners agreed to email views and suggestions to the Directorate to help produce an initial draft.

Action Point 15 - All Commissioners to email specific suggestions on the Commissioners `Person Specification' to DB as soon as possible.

15) JG in her role as Chair, put forward her views and a proposal for the role of Commissioners in relation to WNC work areas and the working groups, with all groups being chaired by an individual and being accountable to the Board for its work. The following suggestions were made and agreed by the Board;

Anita Gale - Continue role as lead on Wales and Welsh policy

Liz Kelly - Continue as chair of VAW Working Group

Brenda King - Take on the lead role for Europe and European

Policy.

Sabin Malik - Chair of Migration & Asylum Working Group

Bronagh Hinds - Continue role as lead on N. Ireland policy, plus new responsibility on 1325, the UN resolution on `Women, Peace and Security'

16) As WNC did not currently address Europe as a policy area, BK agreed to bring suggestions to the next meeting on ways to take this area forward. Action Point 16 - BK to provide suggestions to the next meeting, in writing, as she cannot attend in person, on taking forward work on Europe as a policy area.

17) Although there was no longer an `International' working group, it was agreed that there was still a need for an international strategy. This would bring together the existing work done on CEDAW, CSW, 1325, etc. BH agreed to consider how her work on 1325 could be integrated into this.

Action Point 17 - BH to bring suggestions to the next meeting for integrating activities on 1325 into WNC's International work.

18) For the forthcoming round of recruitment for Commissioners, it was agreed to add an expectation that they be prepared to chair working groups and to add this to the Person Specification for GEO. There was a discussion on the level and location of advertising that should be carried out, specifically in the devolved nations. It was agreed that the Directorate would raise this with GEO as the body responsible for recruitment. Also to ask for clarification of the role of the Chair in recruiting Commissioners.

Action Point 18 - Directorate to liaise with GEO in revising the Commissioners Person Specification to include mention of chairing working groups, and to clarify the role of the Chair in recruitment.

19) Commissioners discussed the role of individual Commissioners in representing the Board to outside bodies. The role of the Chair was set out, with its primary role to speak formally on behalf of the Board, alongside the need for all external communication to be undertaken via the Directorate. It was agreed to examine how the working groups currently undertake external communication and to draw up appropriate protocols for this in future.

Action Point 19 - Directorate to produce draft protocols for external communication by WNC working groups, for approval at the February Board meeting.

20) On the use of Business Cards by individual Commissioners, it was agreed that this was a difficult area, due to the scope for this to imply an individual was acting on behalf of the entire Board. Use of the WNC logo and other issues of WNC's corporate identity were areas that Commissioners would need to discuss and decide upon when required.

21) LB gave a short presentation and a background paper to Commissioners on the WNC website and options for its modernisation. Commissioners felt that any new site should be bright, cheerful, easy to read, professional and regularly updated. The existing set of WNC `faces', which were prominent in the current site were regarded as dated, and should not be retained. Commissioners agreed to email suggestions and examples of other sites that mirrored their preferences. LB was tasked to send out examples of sites that could be used as a starting point.

Action Point 20 - LB to email examples of websites to Commissioners, together with an indication of which organisations have links to the current WNC site.

Action Point 21 - All Commissioners to email comments and suggestions for future WNC website to LB, by end November.

22) The newsletter was also discussed, with a need for a redesign in line with the website. Commissioners were asked to send their thoughts, plus examples of better newsletters, to DB.

Action Point 22 - All Commissioners to email suggestions for a future WNC newsletter to DB.

Agenda Item 6 - Ministers for Women Priorities Consultation

23) JG gave a short introduction to the document, explaining that it had been extremely helpful in raising the profile and stature of the WNC. There had been a good response, especially from smaller organisations as well as from larger ones. While the analysis and presentation of the document was still in early draft form, it gave a good indication of the sector's views.

24) The pay gap was seen as the highest priority under `Supporting Families', which had changed over the period of the consultation, where childcare had initially been the prominent issue. Commissioners were unsure of the extent to which WNC could take a lead role on this, but it could form part of the work on the Gender Equality Duty.

WNC staff joined the meeting at this point.

25) Taking the second priority, there was a feeling by respondents that VAW and women who commit crimes should not be considered together. Women in prison was a less high-profile issue with its own set of concerns, but there may be work that WNC could usefully do under this topic, looking at cross-government working, etc. The responses on VAW were put to the working group to consider how it could be taken forward.

Action Point 23 - Directorate to pass information from the MfW consultation on VAW, to the VAW working group.

26) Looking at the third priority on the role of BME women in building community cohesion, this was felt to be lacking an identifiable focus, with the least number of responses overall. This had been raised at the round table event in September recognising that this issue needed to be handled sensitively.

27) It was agreed that WNC would maintain contact with the attendees of the round table event. The final report on the consultation would contain their comments, alongside the consultation responses.

Action Point 24 - Directorate to consider how best to maintain contact with the roundtable attendees and provide them with information on ongoing developments.

28) The views from across the devolved nations and regions should be integrated into the main report. Handling and release of the final report was raised, with a view that a release to coincide with Harriet Harman's report in December was most appropriate. It was agreed to offer to give a presentation of the key outcomes directly to the Minister, together with the written report.

Action Point 25 - SG to liaise with GEO and Ministers' offices to determine a public release date for the MfW priorities report, together with arrangements for bringing the outcomes to Ministers' attention.

29) Commissioners felt it had been a good use of WNC resources and a similar approach could be adopted in relation to WNC's own priorities, ensuring the involvement of all four nations. Commissioners expressed their thanks to Polly Trenow in the Directorate for her work on collating and analysing all the priorities responses and for drafting the report.

Agenda Item 7 - Brief oral update reports from Chair, Director and Commissioners

30) JG gave an update of her activities, including the round table and events in Wales. She informed Commissioners that Angela Mason, the previous Director of the Women and Equality Unit, had recently become Chair of the Fawcett Society. It was agreed to send congratulations to her on behalf of the WNC.

Action Point 26 - JG to send congratulations from WNC to Angela Mason as the new Chair of the Fawcett Society.

31) SG gave an update, with specific mention of difficulties being encountered by EVAW in collating responses to this years `Making the Grade' report. SG also talked about the positive response from the sector on the Public Service Agreements and the possibility that consultation on the Government's Discrimination Law Review (DLR) will be revisited, with a consequent delay to any Bill being brought to Parliament. Commissioners felt that the DLR was a core item for WNC to be involved with, so SG was asked to keep them informed of progress.

Action Point 27 - SG to update Commissioners at future meetings on any developments with the DLR.

32) Erin Richardson gave an update on the VAW working group, expanding on the circulated paper. She gave an explanation of the `Public Law Project' and its role in taking forward judicial review on important test cases. Also the launch of the `Maps of Gaps' report on access to VAW services, which CWASU and EVAW are producing and co-ordinating, it was expected to take place on November 25th.

Action Point 28 - Directorate to circulate confirmation of the launch date for the `Maps of Gaps' report.

33) As Erin was leaving the Directorate for a new job, JG thanked her for her hard work for the WNC over recent years, which had been vital in taking forward its work on violence. Commissioners added their best wishes and thanks.

34) SG and DB presented the report on Migration & Asylum and International work. DB asked Commissioners to take a copy of the CEDAW report and send back comments and any suggested changes, by the end of November. The report would then be sent out to partners for comment, during December. The shadow report must be completed and sent to the CEDAW Committee by 14 April 2008. On CSW, which was due to take place between 25 February and 7 March 08, the lead topic for CSW is `Financing gender equality and the empowerment of women'. It was agreed that WNC would aim to run a joint-event with the Women's Budget Group, and initial discussions on this have begun. It was also noted that JG has been invited to Chair another NGO event during CSW.

Action Point 29 - All Commissioners to send back comments and suggested changes to the draft CEDAW report, by end November.

35) Mutanser Ashraf presented the previously circulated paper on outreach work. Mutanser also covered concerns raised by the Muslim Women's Network, over comments by MWN being taken as a block by GEO on publication of a `Islam and Domestic Violence' booklet.

36) There was a short discussion on the detail required by the Board for work updates, with the balance felt to be in favour of retaining verbal reports by staff to enhance the circulated papers and allow any questions to be put.

37) BH gave an update on work in N. Ireland, with reference to the circulated papers on the Bill of Rights forum. There was a risk that as a result of some highly critical statements made under privilege in the NI Assembly, some parties and committed individuals may decide to cease involvement in the forum. BH asked for guidance on precedents from Westminster and the other devolved bodies, regarding the procedures for replying to statements made under privilege. JG felt that the code of conduct for members of the House of Lords may be available in writing and offered to forward a copy to BH.

Action Point 30 - JG to send details of the HoL code of conduct in relation to `statements made under privilege' to BH.

38) BH gave an update on Honours and acceptance of them within N. Ireland, given that many felt them to be a symbol of the `British Empire', addressing an action point from the July meeting. It was discussed whether public bodies, including WNC, should nominate people for honours and whether WNC should act as a conduit for its partners to put forward names. This would allow NI bodies to remain apart from the process if they wished. SG said it was logistically impossible for WNC to field nominations from partners as citations are traditionally poorly supported from those who nominate them. WNC could include general information on honours, on the website. It was felt that suitable recognition of achievements made by individuals could be made through stronger funding for their work. It was also believed that only those people who appear to agree with `the establishment' tended to receive awards, and it is usually these same recipients who tend to receive awards at higher levels.

Action Point 31 - SG to consider how WNC should nominate for honours, taking into account views from NI partners and liaising with OCPA.

39) AG gave a short report on her work in Wales, including the conferences in Llandudno and Swansea, plus an event in Cardiff hosted by Julie Morgan MP at which AG had spoken, having covered her action point on honours earlier.

40) BK gave a report on her work, including a very successful event with Yvonne Thompson from the European Federation of Black Women Business Owners, which had over 900 attendees.

41) SM gave a report on her work, including under the remit of the Commission on Integration & Cohesion. She was due to be interviewed on the Islam Channel in the next week, which would be an extended, hour long interview. SG offered to update the speech notes that AG had used previously, for SM to use during the interview.

Action Point 32 - SG to amend the speech notes prepared previously for AG and send to Commissioners as a core script.

Agenda Item 8 - WNC Work Programme

42) There were a range of subjects put forward for inclusion in the work programme, including alignment of WNC work with the new EHRC and publishing the GED toolkit for partners' use on the WNC website. The Women's Resource Centre may be able to help with some of this work.

Action Point 33 - Directorate to flesh out work programme in light of recommendations and further consider staffing and budgets needs.

43) The Business Plan was briefly discussed, and Commissioners were asked to email any items for inclusion.

Action Point 34 - All Commissioners to email items for inclusion in the Business Plan to SG.

Agenda Item 9 - WNC Partners

44) JG briefly introduced the paper on Outreach and Communications and suggested that the partners list could be used more effectively, by targeting papers at and inviting ideas from, groups of partners from relevant sectors. JG followed this by giving her thoughts on future priorities for WNC

  1. Women's economic participation - this could be tackled in terms of the GED, with the key priority being for WNC to be `kept in the loop' over the issues put forward to public authorities by partners.

  2. Women in public life - the WNC booklet needs updating, but OCPA are now producing a guidance booklet covering all the strands and WNC aims to input to the gender aspect. Also, the Commissioner has been invited to attend the Board meeting in December.

  3. International strategy - as covered earlier in the discussion.

Issues coming out of the consultation process should be incorporated into the existing WNC work programme where possible, so items on VAW should be passed to the VAW group for action, rather than dealt with separately.

Action Point 35 - Directorate to ensure that issues coming out of the consultation process are passed to the appropriate working group, where possible.

45) JG asked for updates of all the governance documents discussed, to be brought to the next meeting in a single document, to provide a planned direction for WNC.

Action Point 36 - Directorate to draft a single document bringing together amendments to Constitution, Terms of Reference, etc. For discussion at next meeting.

46) Commissioners asked if it was possible to prepare a list showing which departments were leading on which work coming out of the consultation, also which WNC felt it could lead on.

Action Point 37 - Directorate to liaise with GEO and report to next meeting on possibility of drafting a list of departments leading on each area of the MfW consultation.

47) DB explained that looking at the entire spread of documents required for the next meeting, plus collation of Commissioners responses, it would be particularly helpful if all returns were sent back as soon as possible as the next meeting was only six weeks away.

Action Point 38 - All Commissioners to reply on action points as soon as possible.

48) JG stated her belief that Outreach work should focus on two key issues; i) how does WNC gain more partners and ii) how does it get them more involved? The message put out through the website and newsletters should be that `you need to be a partner to have a voice and become involved in our work'.

49) Meetings for partners and non-partner stakeholders who will be encouraged to become partners, are needed regularly in N. Ireland, Scotland, Wales and the English regions, and Commissioners would be expected to play a full role in these and wider partner recruitment. For example, partner representation was low with young people, and from the North-East, South-West and South-East of England outside London.

Action Point 39 - All Commissioners to email Directorate on Outreach ideas/activity.

Action Point 40 - Directorate to distribute `Partner Packs' to Commissioners, containing information on WNC, application forms and guidance on arranging meetings.

50) Given that next year marked the centenary of the election of the first woman councillor, 50 years of having women MP's and anniversaries for the suffragette movement, it was considered to be a good time to arrange a partners conference with a related theme or themes. Commissioners believed that an event in December was not helpful for attendance, plus International Women's Day (IWD) meant that clashes often occurred between events. A venue outside London was suggested, together with the proposal to arrange a series of events around IWD, where WNC could act as a co-ordinator for things put together by our partners. This would give those events a wider audience and be welcome publicity for WNC.

Action Point 41 - All Commissioners to consider ideas for activity around International Women's Day and discuss at next meeting.

Agenda Item 10 - AOB

51) SG asked Commissioners to take the Strategic Plan away and email any comments to her.

Action Point 42 - All Commissioners to examine draft Strategic Plan and email their comments to SG, before next meeting.

Agenda Item 11 - Date of next meeting

52) The date of the next meeting had already been agreed as December 11th and 12th. It was agreed that the Directorate would email around suggested dates for meetings of the Board for 2008.

Action Point 43 - Directorate to email Commissioners with proposed dates for meetings throughout 2008.

53) JG thanked Commissioners and staff for a very busy, but productive meeting. The meeting was then closed.

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