Note of WNC Commissioners' meeting

11 July 2007

Those present:

Joyce Gould (JG) Interim Chair

Anita Gale (AG) Commissioner

Bronagh Hinds (BH) Commissioner

Sabin Malik (SM) Commissioner

Liz Kelly (LK) Commissioner

Susan Green (SG) Acting Director, WNC

Leon Bond (LB) Business Manager, WNC

Apologies:

Brenda King Commissioner

Ranjana Bell Commissioner

Agenda item 1 - Chair's opening remarks and apologies

1. JG opened the meeting and gave apologies for Ranjana Bell and Brenda King.

2. JG gave a short recap of items and actions from the previous night's Learning Exchange. She reminded the meeting that the deadline for the Queens Birthday Honours 2008, was August 2007 and prior to the next meeting. So any citations would need to be discussed over email. Post-Meeting note: The deadline is now expected to be during October.

Action point 1 - LB to email Commissioners electronic copies of the honours documents and links to the relevant forms.

Action point 2 - BH to prepare a short note summarising the views of NI based organizations, about honours and peerages,. For the next meeting.

Action point 3 - AG to investigate and prepare a short note, clarifying the process for citations made for Welsh women for the next meeting.

Action point 4 - Honours to be an agenda item of a future meeting, to enable a full discussion. SG/LB.

3. JG gave a short update on her current understanding of the position of WNC within government. This was dependent of the `laying of an order' in Parliament, the date for which was not yet clear. However, Barbara Follett was now the minister responsible for the WNC review.

Action point 5 - Check the availability of Harriet Harman and Barbara Follett for both the full October meeting and the learning exchange. Invite both Ministers to attend and join Commissioners for dinner in the House of Lords. LB

Action point 6 - Check availability of a private dining room, provisionally booking one if available. AG/JG.

JG was due to meet Barbara Healey, Harriet Harman's PPS, on the 13^th July and would feed back any updates at the next meeting, or earlier by email if necessary.

4. There was a short discussion of the outline of where Commissioners felt WNC should be positioning itself, covering relations with government, work in the four nations and the role in reporting to the UN. SM felt that mainstreaming gender equality should be high on the list and BH agreed, adding that WNC should work to keep it's independent voice and role.

Liz Kelly joined the meeting at this point.

5. BH raised the need for Commissioners to play a full role, with the Commission working more in the devolved nations and regions. However, resources were recognised as a limiting factor. BH felt a `meet the Commissioners' meeting for Partners would have been worthwhile, but this had not happened. The decreasing budget was impacting on the ability of Commissioners to work together as a `corporate body', or in their individual roles. It was agreed that this should be high on the agenda of the discussions with the Ministers for Women.

6. It was suggested that WNC ask organizations in each of the devolved regions to co-ordinate outreach work on it's behalf, as carried out to some degree in Wales by the `Welsh Women's National Coalition', now known as `Women's Voice'.

Agenda item 2 - Minutes of last meeting

7. The May 2007 minutes were discussed, with several items raised as requiring clarification. The work of BH on `Nobel Women' and her questions raised on the WNC structure and funding were not fully set out. Also the action point for SM to attend EDF was not recalled as being agreed. The lack of page numbers was also considered to be important in future.

Action Point 7 - LB to contact BH to ask for further detail on her items, to be incorporated. Also, to ensure that future notes of minutes include page numbers.

Agenda item 3 - WEU and the WNC working together

8. JG explained the background to the paper produced by WEU and asked for Commissioners' views on its contents. Taking the items, one by one;

i) Women's Economic Participation - While it was agreed that BK was best placed to comment, this was still not a strong area for WNC currently. The EOC had taken on this area previously. SM felt that focusing on the barriers to participation, faced by Ethnic Minority women, was not enough.,It needed to have a wider scope.

ii) Gender Equality Duty - The EOC had been the main lead on this, but with the new CEHR, it is unclear where the lead now fell. Possibly WNC could act as an umbrella organization for raising awareness and promoting monitoring. With the change in Ministers, this needed looking at anew. Also, consideration was needed on how the duty was operating in the regions, and not only in the departments of central government. One issue, for instance, is Section 75 in N. Ireland vs Single Equality Duty.

LK pointed out that EVAW had done some work on the GED in relation to VAW, including producing an action pack. WNC could use this as a template when drawing up it's own approach.

Action point 8 - SG to send EVAW toolkit to BH.

Concerns were raised over the relative priority of Women's Equality within the Equalities Review. A paper is being produced by Rachel Laurent in the WNC Directorate on this and a copy will go out to Commissioners.

Action point 9 - SG to ensure a draft is sent out to Commissioners, once complete.

iii) Women's Civic Participation - This was seen as a very important area for WNC, especially in the area of Public Appointments, passing information to stakeholders. The `Women in Public Life Today' booklet was now three years old, and would benefit from an update. It was suggested that OCPA may have the relevant information and could be approached to produce the booklet with additional WNC input, and looking across the 4 nations. Issues of inaccessible application forms when applying for public appointments, together with a wider campaign required beyond simply a revised booklet, were discussed.

The remit of the Appointments Commission and OCPA had altered recently, so it was agreed to make contact and to invite a speaker to a future meeting.

Action Point 10 - SG to check remit of the Appointments Commission and OCPA.

Action point 11 - JG to invite the `Commissioner for Public Appointments' (OCPA) to a future meeting.

Action point 12 - Place revision of any booklet on hold until clarification of OCPA willingness to produce similar guidance.

The role of `nominating bodies' for appointments (TUC/CBI/Political Parties, etc) were seen as being historically bad at nominating Women. This was an area where WNC could look to raise awareness and influence.

iv) Supporting Women who are particularly Vulnerable - It was felt currently, the role of WEU was unclear and the assumptions being made were inaccurate. There was a need to see where the work was being targeted and aimed at, before WNC could usefully decide how it could feed into this work. Also, Commissioners asked what the impact of the Equalities Review and the Corston report were.

Action Point 13 - SG to arrange for copies of Corston Report to go to Commissioners.

The term `Vulnerable' itself was challenged by Commissioners, pointing out that there was a need to define more clearly, both the groups under discussion and the consequent priorities that these groups required. SG explained that WNC was going to be meeting with WEU to take this forward.

v) Equalities PSA for CSR07 - It was suggested by BH that gender proofing and examining the regional split of departmental budgets could be looked at under this heading. It was agreed that more information was needed on the proposed PSA before meaningful discussion could take place. Concerns were also raised on the handling of evidence gathering, given the subject area of VAW, etc. and the difficulties around consistent and meaningful measurement of trends.

Action Point 14 - WNC to get an update from WEU on Equalities PSA

Agenda Item 4 - Tea Break

Agenda item 5 - Chair and Director's Report

9. JG explained that there was little to add to her report to the May meeting, with few meetings having taken place and lobbying being mostly undertaken.

SM asked for a copy of the letter sent by JG as Chair to Dara Singh, Chair of the Commission on Integration and Cohesion, to be forwarded to Hazel Blears, the new CLG Secretary of State, for information.

Action Point 15 - SG to arrange.

10. SG explained that CEDAW had been a major work area for the team, together with the launch of the IWIP report. Meetings had also taken place around the Corston and Discrimination Law, Reviews. It was expected that outreach would be taking up a large amount of time over the next period, with planning of events across Wales, later in the year.

Agenda Item 9 - Work Updates (parts of which having being moved up the agenda)

11. BH raised the subject of CEDAW as a concern. This was a major piece of work and resources had meant there was little time for Commissioners to comment on the final draft. Specifically, the lateness of the report and draft papers not being sent to Commissioners. Commissioners had also not had a chance to comment on the list of people approached by WNC for comment, specifically those asked to speak from N. Ireland.

There was confusion about whether Commissioners had received the final version of the critical issues paper, and the timing of requests to Commissioners had given them very short notice to reply. SG explained that the demands on staff to complete the reports were similarly tight, and that WNC had to rely on the names of people put forward by partners for N. Ireland.

12. In relation to Paper WNC/07/3/06 (Directory, Database, Interns & DLR), BH asked for a breakdown of the completed WORGS directory by region and work area.

Action point 16 - Polly Trenow to send, once complete.

The role of interns should be looked at, with the balance of Interns and Permanent staff being kept under review. LK pointed out that interns coming from the Poppy Project needed to be retained. Commissioners expressed concern that the DLR consultation was now taking place at a time that did not allow for holiday periods and was difficult for some women to respond to. SG and JG explained that this timescale was dictated by legislation. It was suggested that WNC should still ask for extra time or permission to send in late replies during future consultations.

13. Within the Muslim Women's Network (MWN), BH asked for clarification of WNCs role. SM also asked for guidance on whether she could act in her capacity as a Commissioner while facilitating the `Preventing Extremism' meetings occurring within London Boroughs. SG said that this proposal would need to go round the MWN for their view before SM acted in a formal capacity

Agenda Item 6 - Angela Mason (WEU), Discrimination Law Review

14. Angela Mason gave a presentation on the DLR, followed by questions. These covered: the role of political parties in terms of promoting equal participation by Women; the timescale for producing the final equalities legislation; the merits of not retaining separate strands as structures within the CEHR; the impact of existing legislation (Section 75) within N. Ireland; using public sector procurement as a tool to increase equality in the private sector; and the suggested lower age limit of 18 for some areas of the legislation.

Action Point 17 - LB to send a copy of presentation to Commissioners.

Agenda Item 7 - Lunch Break

Agenda Item 8 - Sam Smethers (EOC), Gender Equality Duty

15. Sam Smethers gave a presentation on the GED with some information on the DLR as seen by the EOC, followed by questions. These covered; the impact on equal pay for women, of a single equality body; the possible role for WNC in terms of the GED; how the newly created government departments will be treated under the GED; possible sanctions for bodies not producing a scheme; and whether `Inspectorates' are required to produce a scheme.

Agenda Item 9 - Work Updates (continued)

16. LK gave a verbal report from the VAW working group, together with a written version, attached.

Agenda Item 10 - AOB, dates of futures meetings

17. Under AOB, it was agreed that Commissioners needed to have a full and detailed discussion of all areas of the WNCs work and structure at their next meeting. Also that in future, the Work updates should appear as a single report, rather than as three or four separate items.

18. At this point Commissioners discussed the dates for the next two meetings, with reference to a chart of Commissioner's available dates. It was agreed that the October meeting needed the maximum attendance, which left only a single date (16^th/17^th October) as being possible. For the end of year meeting, there was a choice of two dates for maximum attendance, but that there was a strong likelihood that WNC would still be in the process of recruiting a permanent Chair for the earlier date. This meant that Commissioners could not meet. Unfortunately, this left only a single date possible, meaning Brenda King was unable to attend both the October and December meetings.

Action Point 18 - JG to liase with Commissioners not present with regards to future meeting dates.

19. It was agreed that the dates for the next meetings would be October 16/17 and December 11/12.

WNC Commissioners meeting July 2007

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WNC/07/4/03b

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